The Official "Should/Will Metaknight be banned?" Thread (LISTEN TO THE SBR PODCAST!)

[da K.I.D.]

vulcan kind of exemplefied the point i made early about what it would take to convince some people

theyll never tell you exactly what the SBR thinks
but im guessing that its split down the middle at this point

and i spend my time posting because i cant practice as much as i would like, seeing as i dont have a wii

 

[kupo15]

Evidence to why MK is broken:

I beat Sethlon's Falco with MK after using him for two weeks. Sethlon is ****ing amazing. I don't even need to post my massive amount of arguments from the SBR. I beat Sethlon with a two week old MK (and I played maybe like 2-3 days of those 2 weeks).

No 2 week old.....2 day old......anything should be able to beat a highly skilled player who spent tons more time into their character and knows their character inside out and on the back of their hand. This seems very wrong seeing as only MK can do this and it is not the first account of this happening. Scrubs should not be able to play 10x more competitively and harder to face from deciding to use MK for one round for ****s a giggles not to mention they dont know **** about this game and the things MK can do.

It seems that even if you know the matchup, you still dont have a fighting chance as lets say any other top tier character. MK has no bad matchups or bad stages. If your going to bring up the whole Marth having the same thing I would have to disagree. I saw Inui's Marth almost lose to Eggm's pika (literally one smash or thunder away) who did nothing but spam thunder and run away to spam some more. (For those who dont know Eggm, he hates brawl and that was a joke match for him because he put very very minimal time into brawl compared to Inui's highly developed Marth.)

It would also appear that while every hit in this game is rock, paper, scissors for who gets the hit, MK seems to be able to peek behind your back slightly to see your response

 

[da K.I.D.]

with my limited experience with falco i believe gheb (highly respected wolf player) could still beat me and that is a highly onesided match
point is even at a severe disadvantage, when you are that new with a character, you shouldnt beat somebody who is widely known as the best with their character unless something is very wrong

 

[Vulcan55]

The fact that Lee beat Sethlon, a well respected and all around great player after using a character for two weeks is not something that should be looked over. It's not like people are sucking his ****, are you saying it makes sense that someone who's really good at this game should lose to a player who's been using a character for like 2 weeks?

No, not realistically, but MK is a VERY easy to use character, and that is all that it proves.
Plus neither you nor I know any specifics about said match.

 

[BentoBox]

With so much exposure to MK at this point in time, I feel like it is fairly hard to pick him up and not know what works and what doesn't to a certain extent. There's no tech skill involved, after all. Get out there, read your opponents and react accordingly. MK just happens to have a solution to nearly everything, which makes him a no brainer.

 

[Punishment Divine]

No, not realistically, but MK is a VERY easy to use character, and that is all that it proves.
Plus neither you nor I know any specifics about said match.

This is true, but any way you look at it that says a lot.

Sethlon, who knows almost everything about his character, and I'm assuming he was using Falco, faces Lee who's been using MK for two weeks, and claims it wasn't even the whole two weeks. Falco has also been known to have a decent matchup against MK, and is probably one of the characters who stands the best chance, in other words loses the least.

If you had to predict the outcome, what would you say?

Although it's true that we don't know the specifics, there aren't many johns that could excuse that one. The only ones I could excuse that with are REALLY not knowing the matchup at all, or being like deathly ill/off his game, both of which I doubt

 

[kupo15]

So basically, if it only takes someone at least 2-12 days time of playing MK to get to the same skill level as a proven awesome player who took months to develop his skill, there is something seriously wrong. Do we agree? This has to prove the amount of potential MK has that is unmatched by any other character which ultimately should warrant a ban.

2-12 days of MK skill == Months of any top players skill ==wtf?

 

[da K.I.D.]

but apparently theres nothing wrong with that....

tsk tsk tsk
shame on you vulcan

 

[kupo15]

apparently...

 

[BentoBox]

2-12 days of MK skill == Months of any top players skill ==wtf?

That would imply that Lee wasn't skilled to begin with...

 

[kupo15]

No. I am going by facts presented where the non MK was an amazing player who knows the match up and got his *** handed to him by a beginner MK.

 

[LeeHarris]

It has just dawned upon me that people might be spending more time theorycrafting on these boards instead of actually playing the game...

@Lee: Would you consider yourself a better player than Sethlon? Regardless of the amount of time you spent on him (everyone knows that MK is pretty straightforward), did you win because he lacked experience in the matchup (unlikely considering his credz), because you outsmarted him or simply because you found it much easier to shut him down (well this should be obvious)? How did Sethlon feel about your set? I don't mean to beat on a dead horse, but Brawl being not so techskill oriented, it basically all boils down to spacing, and if you outdid him in that area, than you deserved a win.

I don't even know where I stand on this issue anymore. This bandwagon phenomenon makes it so pathetic attempts at arguments get the green card, on either side. On which side is the SBR leaning atm, and why?

No, Sethlon is a better player than I am. He has won several 80+ person tournaments and he is an amazing player. Texas has more MKs than any other state in the country, so he knows the matchup WAY better than I know the matchup. I have just seen the matches where he lost and I understand exactly what needs to be done to wreck every top tier character. I've had advice from M2K on how to beat G&W, advice from OS how to beat ROB, advice from many players on how to beat Falco, etc.

After the set, I felt like I had pulled the biggest **** move in the world. I don't want to say I didn't deserve the win, but I definitely had a huge advantage because I used MK and he didn't.

No, not realistically, but MK is a VERY easy to use character, and that is all that it proves.
Plus neither you nor I know any specifics about said match.

I'm not trying to sound cocky or anything, but this is high level play. We are both great players from our state and Sethlon has won several tournaments and placed in the money at several 80+ tournaments. He knows the matchup extremely well. I am just a smart player and I know what tools MK has to destroy the entire cast. He is a better player than I am and he knows his character extremely well, but I am smart and I know how to use a broken character's moves to the best of their ability.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

he is called lee the bad one so idk maybe he isn't. At least I don't think hes at sethlons level but then again I only played his ganon.

edit: dang those sneaky posts.

 

[kupo15]

proof that you can still get destroyed even if you know the matchup unlike facing the other top tiers.

 

[DRaGZ]

No, Sethlon is a better player than I am. He has won several 80+ person tournaments and he is an amazing player. Texas has more MKs than any other state in the country, so he knows the matchup WAY better than I know the matchup. I have just seen the matches where he lost and I understand exactly what needs to be done to wreck every top tier character. I've had advice from M2K on how to beat G&W, advice from OS how to beat ROB, advice from many players on how to beat Falco, etc.

After the set, I felt like I had pulled the biggest **** move in the world. I don't want to say I didn't deserve the win, but I definitely had a huge advantage because I used MK and he didn't.



I'm not trying to sound cocky or anything, but this is high level play. We are both great players from our state and Sethlon has won several tournaments and placed in the money at several 80+ tournaments. He knows the matchup extremely well. I am just a smart player and I know what tools MK has to destroy the entire cast. He is a better player than I am and he knows his character extremely well, but I am smart and I know how to use a broken character's moves to the best of their ability.

Hehehehehe...MK is a tool...

This comic reminds me of MK.

http://gunshowcomic.com/d/20080904.html

 

[ssbbFICTION]

I do not believe that this thread should really go any further. We have already established the obvious:

1. MK is the best character in the game
2. MK is incredibly easy to pick up.
3. MK has no counterpicks and very few if any netral matchups

My argument is this:

People try to compare this game to melee. They are absolotely wrong (melee is better no matter how you look at it, but brawl is still a great game). In melee, fox was used about as much as MK is now. About 50 percent of the people use him (depends on region). In melee, fox could be grab comboed or CPed. Even low tier characters had amazing grab combos on him. <b> The key is that you didn't have to BE fox in order to BEAT fox.</b> At this point, the brawl metagame is beginning to boil down to the fact that in order to beat a player of the same skill level, if they are MK you must be. If they are a little bit better than you you have a very very small chance of actually winning. Even if they are worse than you they still have a good chance because of matchups, low percent kills, and easy gimps. Meta knight breaks the game to the degree that all of other characters are essentially obsolete unless you are at a massively higher skill level than the other player who uses MK, or you know the matchup <b>and he doesnt</b>. Without meta knight, the cast would be far more diversified, as every character would actually have counters, balancing the game to a further degree, making it more competitive and strategic.......(and fun...like that actually matters XD).

That is my opinion on this issue. NO one can possibly claim that the above facts are false, no matter how much they wish that they were. We must go off of those points, but after that it is simply a matter of opinion. I have given this thought and come to the conclusion that I have deemed most logical. hope that maybe this post will finally shut some noobs up who come up with ridiculous facts.

*On a side note, THERE ARE NO FREAKING MYSTERY COUNTERS to MK. Where would these things even come from? MK has an obvious advantage against everyone, and there is only 1 way that is ever going to change. If some gamebreaking tech is suddenly discovered that gives everyone extra speed/jumps/power/mobility......BUT never gives MK a thing, then maybe he would be allowed back into the game as a nonbroken character. As of now and as of forever there will never be anything short of a gamebreaking discovery that will counter MK and make him less broken. (Grab release is not as useful as some make it out to be.)

 

[Swordplay]

Being easy to pick up shouldn't be that much of a factor.

There are other characters that are fairly easy to pick up but they won't be banned.

Fox was the best character in melee but he wasn't banned was he? That was because there were 1 or 2 characters you could use to counter pick.

The issue is whether metaknight is too good. I believe because he has not counter picks that he is. The best you can do is pick another metaknight and play an MK ditto.

That alone should justify for a ban. But I want to wait a little bit more until we do put a ban on. I would support 1 but I'd like the metagame to advance just a tad more before we decide.

 

[-Mars-]

I could see if a character had one broken move, I might be able to deal with it...........but 3? That's pushing it.

Usually a fast character with lagless moves would have little ko power while a more powerful character would be balanced out with lonng cooldown and slow speed, but MK is the perfect blend of speed and power.

 

[LeeHarris]

he is called lee the bad one so idk maybe he isn't. At least I don't think hes at sethlons level but then again I only played his ganon.

edit: dang those sneaky posts.

Haha, that was a joke. Lee Martin is from LA and he made his name in the bracket "lee the good one." I'm not called Lee the bad one

 

[goldemblem]

let's just end this madness and bann meta already >_>

If you don't think meta it's broken, then something it's seriously wrong with you, or you haven't played truly good metas

 

[oxhaseokunxo]

I official have had it with these god **** Meta Knights in my god **** Game. I tend to SD when i find an MK user on WiFi.

Poll of people who hate Meta Knight:
People who don't hate him: Meta Knight Users and Top Tier Queers (people who abuse the best characters only because they are. Simply. The Best.)
People who do hate him: Everyone who has competitive experience of MK pros.

 

[BentoBox]

I tend to SD when i find an MK user on WiFi.

Sigh. Sigh. Sigh. Sigh.

 

[Swordplay]

I'm curious as to which way the SBR is leaning.

We've discussed it so much. I wonder if they have taken any of it in.



By the way, how is the Italian metagame turning out? anybody know?

 

[DRaGZ]

I'm curious as to which way the SBR is leaning.

We've discussed it so much. I wonder if they have taken any of it in.



By the way, how is the Italian metagame turning out? anybody know?

Italy's not big enough to have a metagame.

 

[Lord Exor]

Sakurai is probably laughing his buttocks off right now.

 

[DRaGZ]

Sakurai is probably laughing his buttocks off right now.

Sakurai is probably receiving oral sex from Kirby right about now.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Sakurai is probably receiving oral sex from Kirby right about now.

Sakurai is probably giving Meta Knight more "win" right about now.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

up tilt kills at 85% with no DI (actually high 84s). Don't use training mode, it's different than vs Mode by 5% (although most tests will show about a ~6% knockback difference depending on the move of course, it was programmed to be different because sakurai is gay)

**** it, Sakurai.

two things.

one: lol @ the repeated use of the phrase "full proof." seriously, guys? that's even worse than "visa versa."

two: 45-55 is just as close to 50-50 as it is to 40-60. i don't know why people keep saying 45-55 is "close enough" to 50-50 to be neutral when 45-55 is equally close to what has been called a soft counter by the people who keep using this failure argument.

also, red ryu said something to the effect of "40-60 isn't that bad, but things really start getting hard at 35-65." lawlz.

40-60 isn't that bad, it's a minimal soft counter.

45-55 means your at a disadvantage, but it's so minimal the otherhcaracter doesn't even soft counter you.

35-65, like Marth vs MK is pretty bad for Marth.

40-60 isn't that bad of a match-up that you can't win it. If it starts going into 30-70 and further, your deep in a hole.

40-60 is winnable, 20-80 is near hopeless.

 

[St. Viers]

just a couple of suggestions, mainly aimed at the newer posters in this:

If you can't be bothered to read the thread first, you obviously don't care enough about the subject the post. Even if you have to skim (just reading any 10 pages will give you the gist), do some ****ing research before posting.

Never just state your opinion without showing us your reasoning

Don't try and insult other players. We aren't discussing them, we're discussing the MK question. Yes, ppl like m2k and OS are in this, and there is obviously fighting going on. That isn't a reason for anyone else to get involved.

don typ liek this, lol!!!!!...

.....u no? mirite???!<----try to make yourself understandable. (An example would be that reaper dude, who is supposedly in college, but types like a 2nd grader ....

Please, this thread is annoying enough, even without M2K slurs, obnoxious text, and unsupported arguments.

 

[Red Exodus]

I official have had it with these god **** Meta Knights in my god **** Game. I tend to SD when i find an MK user on WiFi.

Poll of people who hate Meta Knight:
People who don't hate him: Meta Knight Users and Top Tier Queers (people who abuse the best characters only because they are. Simply. The Best.)
People who do hate him: Everyone who has competitive experience of MK pros.

You liar, Wifi doesn't work. THE PLOT THICKENS.

 

[Pikaville]

Funny no one I play with alot even mains/seconds MK........

 

[Punishment Divine]

Funny no one I play with alot even mains/seconds MK........

you're from Europe, your metagame sucks

 

[Crackle]

What do Japan and Europe think about Meta Knight's ban?

Do they not consider it?

 

[Snail]

What do Japan and Europe think about Meta Knight's ban?

Do they not consider it?

MK is already banned in Italy. It's not much of an issue here in the Netherlands since not many people play MK here...

 

[Deleted member]

It'd probably carry over to Europe, but I don't know about Japan. It's a universal problem, though.

It would be epic funnies if the Japanese started maining Meta Knight, only to have him restricted over in America. I wonder how that would work out.

 

[The Real Inferno]

I'm curious as to which way the SBR is leaning.

We've discussed it so much. I wonder if they have taken any of it in.



By the way, how is the Italian metagame turning out? anybody know?

The whole "Italy banned Meta" thing turned out to be a rumor. I believe it was a mod who said it was a poll on whether or not Meta should be banned and no kind of official decision.

 

[Master Raven]

InfernoRage beat me to it.

 

[ssbbFICTION]

InfernoRage beat me to it.

Same


I feel like the lack of people responding at all to my argument and the fact that they simply keep posting proves that this topic has nothing left to give.

 

[Crackle]

Italy hasn't banned MK, that was a mistranslation on that thread.

 

[Krakatoa]

Italy hasn't banned MK, that was a mistranslation on that thread.

Thanks for posting the exact same thing that someone wrote 3 posts back now you can GTFO.

Thanks