The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v3.0

[Brinzy]

I missed what S.O.L.I.D. said. D:

Did I already mention that I want your babies?

LOL, maybe you have, maybe you haven't. ;D

I really hope that Raph isn't a married father and you're talking about kidnapping his children.

I never really thought of it that way. Fortunately I don't have any kids.

 

[Atlus8]

I like MK cause you gotta press the B button and s#!+

 

[mountain_tiger]

but why..............

Here's a basic summary. Wario has one of the best air games in Brawl, due to his extremely fast air speed and high priority, powerful aerials. He can air camp for a long time. He has one of the best and most versatile recoveries in the game, unlike other aerial-centric characters he has a decent ground game, he has a few powerful finishers, he's heavy for his size, and finally a good Wario is very hard to grab. (Thus negating the grab releases found on him). Oh yeah, and he has great matchups too.

 

[smashkng]

poor ike, but why is wario on the s list, shouldnt marth be up there?

Marth's problem characters are 3 in the top tier. That's why he isn't so high. However, when thinking in other matchups his matchups are amazing. Anyway I think he is underrated in the tier list cause Snake, King Dedede, Falco and Diddy Kong have more disadvantage matchups but which are not of top tier characters. If they would ban MK, Marth would immediately rise.

 

[Nitrix]

but why..............

I believe Wario will drop in time. People just don't think he is a big enough problem to fully take advantage of the grab releases. Nobody is willing to learn a new character just to beat him.

 

[Red Arremer]

I missed what S.O.L.I.D. said. D:

Essentially the same as Straked said, just less funny.

I believe Wario will drop in time. People just don't think he is a big enough problem to fully take advantage of the grab releases. Nobody is willing to learn a new character just to beat him.

Wario's Grab Releases hardly are a problem.

 

[CaliburChamp]

S Tier (Super Tier) From the heavens.
Meta Knight 10.0
Snake 9.9

A Tier (Top Tier) On top of the mountain.
Wario 9.7
Diddy Kong 9.6
Falco 9.6
King Dedede 9.5
Marth 9.4
Pikachu 9.3
Mr. Game & Watch 9.3

B Tier ( Very High Tier) Almost at the top of the mountain.
Olimar 8.9
Ice Climbers 8.7
Zero Suit Samus 8.5
ROB 8.2
Lucario 8.0

C Tier (High Tier) Higher than the middle part of the mountain.
Kirby 7.9
Toon Link 7.8
Pit 7.6
Donkey Kong 7.4
Luigi 7.4
Fox 7.3
Wolf 7.2
Peach 7.1
Zelda/Shiek (Used as both) 7.0

D Tier (Middle Tier) Half way there.
Squirtle (no forced switching, no fatigue) 6.8
Ness 6.7
Lucas 6.6
Zelda 6.5
Shiek 6.3

F Tier (Low Tier) At the low part of the mountain.
Sonic 5.9
Bowser 5.8
Ike 5.7
Pokemon Trainer/Charizard (as an average) 5.6
Yoshi 5.4
Mario 5.2
Samus 5.2
Ivysaur (no forced switching, no fatigue) 5.0

G Tier (Bottom Tier) On ground level.
Jigglypuff 4.9
Captain Falcon 4.8
Link 4.6
Ganondorf 4.4
Popo 4.0
Nana 4.0

F Tier (Worthless tier) Underground.
Solo Olimar 1.0

This list was thought of from the following evidence : live tournament results, online ladder rankings, characters performance on starter stages, and overall good match ups against the rest of the cast.

I'll continually keep updating this.

Compared to the new tier list 3.0
Condensed Version
S: Meta Knight, Snake, Wario, Falco, Diddy Kong, King Dedede
A: Marth, Mr. Game & Watch, Pikachu, Olimar, Ice Climbers, R.O.B., Kirby
B: Lucario, Zero Suit Samus, Toon Link, Pit, Donkey Kong
C: Peach, Luigi, Fox, Wolf, Sonic, Sheik
D: Bowser, Zelda, Pokémon Trainer, Ike
E: Lucas, Mario, Ness, Yoshi, Samus
F: Jigglypuff, Captain Falcon, Link, Ganondorf

 

[-Mars-]

Zelda, Ness, and Lucas being above Sheik is laughable.

 

[mountain_tiger]

Zelda, Ness, and Lucas being above Sheik is laughable.

Isn't this the first tier list that Sheik > Zelda, thus making every list up to now laughable? Then again, the first list said that Zelda > ZSS, so...

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Isn't this the first tier list that Sheik > Zelda, thus making every list up to now laughable? Then again, the first list said that Zelda > ZSS, so...

Yeah, and the current one says Kirby's better, so...

 

[CaliburChamp]

I think Zelda+Shiek combo is better than Ness, Lucas and Squirtle. Using Zelda on her own and using Shiek on her own, and Ness and Lucas are better than them.

 

[MysticKenji]

list

No E tier?

 

[DUCKAtl]

S Tier (Super Tier) From the heavens.
Meta Knight 10.0
Snake 9.9

A Tier (Top Tier) On top of the mountain.
Wario 9.7
Diddy Kong 9.6
Falco 9.6
King Dedede 9.5
Marth 9.4
Pikachu 9.3
Mr. Game & Watch 9.3

B Tier ( Very High Tier) Almost at the top of the mountain.
Olimar 8.9
Ice Climbers 8.7
Zero Suit Samus 8.5
ROB 8.2
Lucario 8.0

C Tier (High Tier) Higher than the middle part of the mountain.
Kirby 7.9
Toon Link 7.8
Pit 7.6
Donkey Kong 7.4
Luigi 7.4
Fox 7.3
Wolf 7.2
Peach 7.1
Zelda/Shiek (Used as both) 7.0

D Tier (Middle Tier) Half way there.
Squirtle (no forced switching, no fatigue) 6.8
Ness 6.7
Lucas 6.6
Zelda 6.5
Shiek 6.3

F Tier (Low Tier) At the low part of the mountain.
Sonic 5.9
Bowser 5.8
Ike 5.7
Pokemon Trainer/Charizard (as an average) 5.6
Yoshi 5.4
Mario 5.2
Samus 5.2
Ivysaur (no forced switching, no fatigue) 5.0

G Tier (Bottom Tier) On ground level.
Jigglypuff 4.9
Captain Falcon 4.8
Link 4.6
Ganondorf 4.4
Popo 4.0
Nana 4.0

F Tier (Worthless tier) Underground.
Solo Olimar 1.0

This list was thought of from the following evidence : live tournament results, online ladder rankings, characters performance on starter stages, and overall good match ups against the rest of the cast.

I'll continually keep updating this.

Compared to the new tier list 3.0
Condensed Version
S: Meta Knight, Snake, Wario, Falco, Diddy Kong, King Dedede
A: Marth, Mr. Game & Watch, Pikachu, Olimar, Ice Climbers, R.O.B., Kirby
B: Lucario, Zero Suit Samus, Toon Link, Pit, Donkey Kong
C: Peach, Luigi, Fox, Wolf, Sonic, Sheik
D: Bowser, Zelda, Pokémon Trainer, Ike
E: Lucas, Mario, Ness, Yoshi, Samus
F: Jigglypuff, Captain Falcon, Link, Ganondorf

Shouldnt Diddy and Dedede be in the S

 

[Noa.]

Basing a tier list of off tourney results is moronic. Tourney results do not show character viability or potential, just character popularity and overcentralization.

A character's ability to perform on neutrals will be reflected through their matchups. Where did you get that data from anyway?

Your way of calculating this tier list has led to some wrong placements. Peach is much lower than she should be. Zelda and Sheik, together and separated as a character are much too low.

The way the tiers are divided is also wrong. When using point averages you should group them based on point differences, not the value of the ones place. Inconsistency come up. The difference between S tier and A tier is .1, while the difference between A tier and B tier is .4.

This tier list is messed up in a lot of ways.

 

[DontLoseUrLuggage]

wtf is "Overcentralization" the new brawl buzzword or something LOL. i swear to god i never heard this word ever 6 months ago

 

[Brinzy]

Zelda > Ness

Zelda >>> Lucas.

Believe it.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Yeah, and the current one says Kirby's better, so...

ZSSs and lucarios stay hating on dat dere kirbeh

 

[Clai]

This list was thought of from the following evidence : live tournament results, online ladder rankings, characters performance on starter stages, and overall good match ups against the rest of the cast.

Anyone else seeing the problem here?

 

[phi1ny3]

ZSSs and lucarios stay hating on dat dere kirbeh

I second that notion, in fact, let's make Dead Kirby jokes, just as cute, but since there are no "Kirby Protection/Abuse Acts" being enforced, it's now easier!
How many dead kirbys does it take to paint a wall?

 

[demonictoonlink]

Depends what percentage you throw them at.

 

[smashmachine]

kirby>lucario

seriously name one lucario main (gl lol)

and falco has nice tourney results now so he probably won't drop

 

[phi1ny3]

kirby>lucario

seriously name one lucario main (gl lol)

and falco has nice tourney results now so he probably won't drop

That's tourney rep, which is a ******** excuse to base a tier list on, only to possibly verify.
In potential, I think lucario/ZSS > Kirby.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

ZSSs and lucarios stay hating on dat dere kirbeh

We will!

That's tourney rep, which is a ******** excuse to base a tier list on, only to possibly verify.
In potential, I think lucario/ZSS > Kirby.

Kirby isn't even on the radar for tourney results in 2009 and ZSS and Lucario are #6 and #7 respectfully. They're also two of the seven characters to win tournaments with over 90 people without a secondary this year.

EDIT: This is just for 2009.

 

[Gindler]

S Tier (Super Tier) From the heavens.
Meta Knight 10.0
Snake 9.9

A Tier (Top Tier) On top of the mountain.
Wario 9.7
Diddy Kong 9.6
Falco 9.6
King Dedede 9.5
Marth 9.4
Pikachu 9.3
Mr. Game & Watch 9.3

B Tier ( Very High Tier) Almost at the top of the mountain.
Olimar 8.9
Ice Climbers 8.7
Zero Suit Samus 8.5
ROB 8.2
Lucario 8.0

C Tier (High Tier) Higher than the middle part of the mountain.
Kirby 7.9
Toon Link 7.8
Pit 7.6
Donkey Kong 7.4
Luigi 7.4
Fox 7.3
Wolf 7.2
Peach 7.1
Zelda/Shiek (Used as both) 7.0

D Tier (Middle Tier) Half way there.
Squirtle (no forced switching, no fatigue) 6.8
Ness 6.7
Lucas 6.6
Zelda 6.5
Shiek 6.3

F Tier (Low Tier) At the low part of the mountain.
Sonic 5.9
Bowser 5.8
Ike 5.7
Pokemon Trainer/Charizard (as an average) 5.6
Yoshi 5.4
Mario 5.2
Samus 5.2
Ivysaur (no forced switching, no fatigue) 5.0

G Tier (Bottom Tier) On ground level.
Jigglypuff 4.9
Captain Falcon 4.8
Link 4.6
Ganondorf 4.4
Popo 4.0
Nana 4.0

F Tier (Worthless tier) Underground.
Solo Olimar 1.0

This list was thought of from the following evidence : live tournament results, online ladder rankings, characters performance on starter stages, and overall good match ups against the rest of the cast.

I'll continually keep updating this.

Compared to the new tier list 3.0
Condensed Version
S: Meta Knight, Snake, Wario, Falco, Diddy Kong, King Dedede
A: Marth, Mr. Game & Watch, Pikachu, Olimar, Ice Climbers, R.O.B., Kirby
B: Lucario, Zero Suit Samus, Toon Link, Pit, Donkey Kong
C: Peach, Luigi, Fox, Wolf, Sonic, Sheik
D: Bowser, Zelda, Pokémon Trainer, Ike
E: Lucas, Mario, Ness, Yoshi, Samus
F: Jigglypuff, Captain Falcon, Link, Ganondorf

Squirtle alone would be S tier easy, he's so good and cute.

 

[phi1ny3]

We will!



Kirby isn't even on the radar for tourney results in 2009 and ZSS and Lucario are #6 and #7 respectfully. They're also two of the seven characters to win tournaments with over 90 people without a secondary this year.

EDIT: This is just for 2009.

Huh? I figured.
Although he's right about solid national lucario players being scarce (although ksizzle, Lee (yes, he's trying him again), and Zucco intend to change that). Lucario's solid enough to go without a secondary, we only have one arguable 65:35 MU, and it's not even that bad, most agree on 60:40 for it anyways.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Squirtle alone would be S tier easy, he's so good and cute.

If you wanna put it like that, Peach would be the best character in this game.

Also just to let the word out, Peach is actually high tier. People just don't realize it.

 

[Nestec]

Peach is ugly. Nana is so much more sexy.

CaliburChamp's List

Ehh...nope.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Squirtle is very very good but he isn't S tier. A/high B definitely, for sure. No question.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Peach is ugly. Nana is so much more sexy.



Ehh...nope.

The only reason you find nana sexy is cause you are a pedo. I mean you do play or like Ness. And the reason you find Peach ugly is cause you don't know what sexy looks like around here. You never experienced it. Peach is a bucket of smex. Look at my sig. If you seriously think she is not hawt you fail at life and the will to be sexy. You also don't love yourself. Why do you think most Peach players are good looking? We know sexy my friend. Step your game up.

 

[Sanu]

Why do you think most Peach players are good looking? We know sexy my friend. Step your game up.

It's because most Peach mains are gay and know how to look after themselves...

True story.

 

[Dark.Pch]

It's because most Peach mains are gay and know how to look after themselves...

True story.

I did a count, just about half are gay/bi and the other half is straight

Also, that should not be an excuse, learn to take and look after yourself. We just know about looking good and being sexy

True story.

 

[C.box]

Huh? I figured.
Although he's right about solid national lucario players being scarce (although ksizzle, Lee (yes, he's trying him again), and Zucco intend to change that). Lucario's solid enough to go without a secondary, we only have one arguable 65:35 MU, and it's not even that bad, most agree on 60:40 for it anyways.

Which match up is that btw?

 

[phi1ny3]

Which match up is that btw?

D3, although there are arguments about how it's really a matter of weighing lucario's meh pressure game and options imo, most say it's 60:40, especially since you can just baaaaaarely camp D3 (both by using AS correctly and high aura multiplier are two reasons, funny because normally lucario's projectile camping game is pretty bad), and D3 needs to land an early kill, something he's not as well designed for if the player knows how to avoid utilt/fakeout kills (D3 bair also gets pretty stale in this MU, so it's not a very good threat for killing).
D3 though has a good control/damage game, and can also be trouble for lucario to kill.
This sounds really really condensed, but there's a looooot of aspects to the MU.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Which match up is that btw?

I would guess MK or Snake.

 

[phi1ny3]

I would guess MK or Snake.

^Read my previous post.
MK is reeeeaaaaally stage dependent, it almost turns in lucario's favor on some stages (FD, Yoshi's, etc.) Solidly 40:60-45:55 on other stages.
Snake has also been debated, we really need to rediscuss the MU again, but most say it's either 40:60 or 45:55 (some say 50:50, but I don't really agree, I'm more in the 45:55/40:60 boat if anything).
Many lucarios actually want to keep MK (at least the ones who want their character more viable) because it keeps D3/Olimar/marth on the line, which are a little harder.
Lucario is sadly somewhat underrated, because of the detrimental "scrub friendly" image, and lack of huge national players that use him anymore (like Lee/Azen), but trust me when I say he's got a both easy learning curve when taken at low/mid level of play, and a HUGE learning curve at higher levels.

 

[thanortinzak]

Which match up is that btw? [Lucario vs. DeDeDe]

Go to Brawl Character Discussion>Lucario> The Lucario Matchup thread (or whatever its called.

 

[Sh1n0b1]

YAY Captain Falcon isn't dead last!!!

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Lucario is similar to Pit in that regard, actually.

 

[phi1ny3]

Lucario is similar to Pit in that regard, actually.

Actually lol, I didn't notice that, quite true.

 

[StealthyGunnar]

Why must Falco be high tier when Fox and Wolf, the guys I use, are right in the Mid? XD