The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v3.0

[Supermodel From Paris]

His Bair is phenomenal, possibly the best aerial in the game.

Cough zss uair

<3 dedede but I too would be surprised to see him in S tier next time around unless atomsk starts ******. =(

 

[PKNintendo]

Dedede has an amazing grab, its the longest non tether grab in the game and it comes out in 6 frames. His long-reaching Dair allows him to safely pressure shields from above with little fear of being punished, and its also a good out of shield attack. His Bair is phenomenal, possibly the best aerial in the game. His Fair is also very good and can be used as a kill move if one is using Bair throughout the game. He can kill basically as early as Snake with what is probably the second best Utilt for killing in the game, and a Dsmash that can work well with tech chasing to kill people. He also lives the longest with DI.

Plus, hes a pimp. Just look at him

Okay I need to be the one to say it. DDD is good yes. No great. Whatever. He is the MOST overrated piece of crap I have EVER seen ever. It's like he's transcended.

 

[Jupz]

I think hes just fine where he is The only characters I think that might overtake him are Ice Climbers and Marth, everyone else belongs below him.

As for being in S tier, depends how many characters are allowed into S tier. Look at the previous tier list, where it was composed of just snake

I forgot to mention the chaingrab and the 17% Bthrow. Before you say he is overrated, pick him up and start using him for a while. If you have used him a fair bit already and still have that opinion, then I'm sorry


I didn't mean it was clear out the best aerial, just that it was a contender

And yes, everyone <3's Dedede. Look at the picture again WHERES HIS HAMMER????

King Dedede is actually the best character in the game.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

I think hes just fine where he is The only characters I think that might overtake him are Ice Climbers and Marth, everyone else belongs below him.

As for being in S tier, depends how many characters are allowed into S tier. Look at the previous tier list, where it was composed of just snake

I forgot to mention the chaingrab and the 17% Bthrow. Before you say he is overrated, pick him up and start using him for a while. If you have used him a fair bit already and still have that opinion, then I'm sorry


I didn't mean it was clear out the best aerial, just that it was a contender

And yes, everyone <3's Dedede. Look at the picture again WHERES HIS HAMMER????

King Dedede is actually the best character in the game.

its the ending frames of his final smash he puts his hammer away in the start up frames of the final smash

 

[SuSa]

I could've sworn bthrow only did 16%

 

[Dark 3nergy]

I could've sworn bthrow only did 16%

From CO18's thread;

20. Backward Throw:
Description: King Dedede turns around and whacks the opponent out of his hand with his hammer
Avg Damage: 16%
Knockback: Good

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=142229

 

[Jupz]

Woops I meant to write 16%

Also oh I forgot about his FS.

 

[Meru.]

G&W is 60-40 against Sheik and 70-30 against Zelda.

Marth is 60-40 both

IC is 80-20 IC against Sheik and 55-45 IC against Zelda

Olimar is 65-35 against both but I don't believe this one... <_<

/taken from http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=226315

Match-ups can change if both Sheik and Zelda are played in the same match. My main Peach is an example. She gets at both Sheik and Zelda pretty hardly if they're played as a stand alone character, but if they're played together, it'll get a lot harder for Peach.

I don't know about these match-ups you mentioned, but I thought it'd be good if someone said this.

 

[Shaya]

16% times 1.05 = 16.8 damage fresh.
That's pretty close to 17%.

 

[mountain_tiger]

Cough zss uair

<3 dedede but I too would be surprised to see him in S tier next time around unless atomsk starts ******. =(

Agreed. He has a number of very hard matchups. He should be in A Tier for sure.

Moving away from Dedede, IMO Jigglypuff should be higher than she is now. Don't get me wrong, she generally sucks pretty hard, but she's not the fourth worst in the game. Her ground game is terrible, but she can easily force the game into the air against most characters, and we all know she's good in the air. And her matchups are considerably better than the other F Tiers. She goes almost even with MK, Snake and Dedede (all 45:55), which is more than can be said for several other low tiers. Granted, she gets ***** by Mr G&W, Wario and a number of others, but her matchups in general are still better than some of the characters above her. IMO she should be around where Mario is now. At the very least she should be above Samus.

Edit: Forget I said Snake. I must have been thinking of someone else at the time.

 

[Tarmogoyf]

Moving away from Dedede, IMO Jigglypuff should be higher than she is now. Don't get me wrong, she generally sucks pretty hard, but she's not the fourth worst in the game. Her ground game is terrible, but she can easily force the game into the air against most characters, and we all know she's good in the air. And her matchups are considerably better than the other F Tiers. She goes almost even with MK, Snake and Dedede (all 45:55), which is more than can be said for several other low tiers. Granted, she gets ***** by Mr G&W, Wario and a number of others, but her matchups in general are still better than some of the characters above her. IMO she should be around where Mario is now. At the very least she should be above Samus.

Uh, Snake is 65/35 best case scenario. He forces your approach, kills you at 80 with good DI, doesn't die till like 150 if he DIs, and is more resistiant to gimps because you can only knock him off the cypher with Fair (and if it doesn't kill there, it never will, and it's your only option against snake for kills)

And Wario is like 4/6 Wario. You should never get Fsmashed, and you have more range then him in the air, and Dair-Grab absolutley *****. He wins because of the how heavy he is, and bite.

But, she it definitley better than Samus.

 

[mountain_tiger]

Uh, Snake is 65/35 best case scenario. He forces your approach, kills you at 80 with good DI, doesn't die till like 150 if he DIs, and is more resistiant to gimps because you can only knock him off the cypher with Fair (and if it doesn't kill there, it never will, and it's your only option against snake for kills)

Oh yeah, you're right. I don't know why I thought it was 45:55. My mistake. (Though can't Nair and Bair knock him out of Cypher too?)

 

[AvaricePanda]

If you were thinking of someone else other than Snake, you were probably thinking of Diddy (somewhere around evenish).

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Squirtle does well against everyone not named Marth or Yoshi.

Which is why Ike has a 65-35 advantage against Squirtle. >_>

loladaylate

And I think Samus > Jigglypuff. Samus at least can constantly play an annoying camping/spacing game with her missiles and Zair. But W/E, Jigglypuff is one of the characters I know the least about. I see her mainly a a good surprise CP against D3, seeing as almost nobody has experience against Jigglypuff. >_>

 

[Browny]

Lol time to post my opinion of a tier list Version... 1.6 or something idk anymore.

This is heavily influenced by the current tier list, and my member voted tier list thread
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=229123&page=66

S: MK, Snake
A: Diddy, Wario
B: Ice Climbers, DDD, Falco, Marth, G&W, Olimar
C: ROB, Pikachu, Lucario, ZSS, Kirby
D: Sheik + Zelda, Toon Link, DK, Peach, Luigi, Pit, Wolf
E: Fox, Sonic, PT, Bowser, Ness, Mario
F: Yoshi, Ike, Lucas, Jigglypuff
G: Link, Samus, Falcon, Ganon

 

[Vermy]

Which is why Ike has a 65-35 advantage against Squirtle. >_>

While i agree that Squirtle is at a disadvantage to Ike, i hardly would call it a 65:35. Match up threads these days can't be taken seriously, unless they've been done in the last 6 months.
Ike can out range Squirtle and has the power to kill him at ridiculously low percents, but if Squirtle plays patiently and gets inside that fortress, Ike will get juggled pretty fiercely. If the Squirtle goes rushing in, its gonna eat a ftilt, or anything involving jabs and jab mix ups. But if Squirtle gets Ike offstage, he's probably not coming back.

60:40 at worst, id say. But if I'm incorrect, I'd like to hear why Ike is a borderline hard counter on Squirtle. =]

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I might as well post one myself. Version 3 or 3.1 I think...

S: MK, Snake
A: Wario, Diddy, Falco, DDD
B: Marth, G&W, ICs, Olimar
C: Pikachu, Kirby, Lucario, ROB, ZSS
D: DK, Sheik/Zelda, Toon Link, Peach, Pit, Sonic, Luigi
E: Sheik, Wolf, Fox, Zelda, Bowser, Ike, Ness
F: Mario, PT, Yoshi, Lucas, Samus
G: Jigglypuff, Link, Falcon, Ganon

Notes:

1) If Ness constantly stays where he is tournament results wise with multiple people placing well, and Ike constantly stays as low as he is now for another month, I'd say Ness>Ike. If Ness's results drop or Ike gets back to where he is normally in results I say Ike>Ness. If Ness stays where he is currently for two more months, Ness > Ike + Bowser. Basically, Bowser, Ike, and Ness are all really close and how consistent tournament results are will affect the order of those three down the line. >_>

2) PT still doesn't have anyone but Reflex doing well, and even then Reflex's results are starting to drop a bit. I see no reason at all to move him higher then where he is currently.

3) Lucas still sucks.

EDIT:

60:40 at worst, id say. But if I'm incorrect, I'd like to hear why Ike is a borderline hard counter on Squirtle. =]

Ike has a grab release CG that leads to a walk off Fair which kills Squirtle very early on. Most characters have the CG on Squirtle, not many have something they can do once they reach the edge, let alone one that gimps early.

 

[mountain_tiger]

Lol time to post my opinion of a tier list Version... 1.6 or something idk anymore.

This is heavily influenced by the current tier list, and my member voted tier list thread
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=229123&page=66

S: MK, Snake
A: Diddy, Wario
B: Ice Climbers, DDD, Falco, Marth, G&W, Olimar
C: ROB, Pikachu, Lucario, ZSS, Kirby
D: Sheik + Zelda, Toon Link, DK, Peach, Luigi, Pit, Wolf
E: Fox, Sonic, PT, Bowser, Ness, Mario
F: Yoshi, Ike, Lucas, Jigglypuff
G: Link, Samus, Falcon, Ganon

Some problems I can see there:

- Diddy Kong and Ice Climbers seem a bit high.

- Sheik and Zelda shouldn't be grouped together

- Donkey Kong is too low.

- Ness > Lucas is wrong.

- ROB is a bit too high.

Other than that, that list doesn't look too bad.

 

[Browny]

i dont think sheik and zelda should be grouped either, I just did it coz almost everyone criticizes tier lists if they have them as separate lol.

And ness has been proving himself lately

 

[Vermy]

I did not know that. Darn grab releases. =/
Still, Ike would need to space well vs a Squirtle to keep him at bay, making that grab a lot more difficult. Grabbing a Squirtle in itself isn't an easy feat. Especially one who knows about the cg. I still don't think its that much of a problem to be a 65:35.

 

[AvaricePanda]

Some problems I can see there:

- Diddy Kong and Ice Climbers seem a bit high.

- Sheik and Zelda shouldn't be grouped together

- Donkey Kong is too low.

- Ness > Lucas is wrong.

- ROB is a bit too high.

Other than that, that list doesn't look too bad.

I agree with this except ICs being high. IMO, I would trade ICs and Diddy's spots, put ICs in fourth and Wario third, and put MK through Diddy (and maybe D3) into S tier.

I can definitely see ICs being fourth, or at least S tier.

 

[Frown]

Some problems I can see there:

- Diddy Kong and Ice Climbers seem a bit high.

- Sheik and Zelda shouldn't be grouped together

- Donkey Kong is too low.

- Ness > Lucas is wrong.

- ROB is a bit too high.

Other than that, that list doesn't look too bad.

Lol, I disagree with pretty much everything you just said.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I did not know that. Darn grab releases. =/
Still, Ike would need to space well vs a Squirtle to keep him at bay, making that grab a lot more difficult. Grabbing a Squirtle in itself isn't an easy feat. Especially one who knows about the cg. I still don't think its that much of a problem to be a 65:35.

Jab -> Grab makes it too easy. You have one frame to jump + AD in to avoid the grab. Squirtle does have the faster jab though, and I think that was one of the reasons why the Ike boards ultimately didn't put it down as a 7-3 advantage, besides the fact Squirtle is annoyingly acrobatic, but not enough to save him in this match-up. Bluntly, Squirtle ain't Wario though he tries to be.

 

[mountain_tiger]

I agree with this except ICs being high. IMO, I would trade ICs and Diddy's spots, put ICs in fourth and Wario third, and put MK through Diddy (and maybe D3) into S tier.

I can definitely see ICs being fourth, or at least S tier.

The ICs are definitely good, no doubt about that. They could possibly be in S Tier, but I don't think they should be 4th. Something like 7th or 8th would be more appropriate IMO.

ICs are kind of like the opposite of Mr G&W. Whereas Mr G&W does mediocre against the top tiers and great against the mid tiers, the ICs do very well against the top tiers and mediocre against some of the mid tiers.

 

[Nitrix]

Regardless of how well Ness does is tourneys, there is a definate ceiling in terms of his position due to the grab releases. Its not like he can be slippery like Wario

 

[MetalMusicMan]

<3 dedede but I too would be surprised to see him in S tier next time around unless atomsk starts ******. =(

I've always thought this.

DeDeDe should not be S Tier-- he's a very good character, but he is grossly overrated simply because of his chain grab. Mid or high A tier is about where he should be. Maybe even low A tier, who knows.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I've always thought this.

DeDeDe should not be S Tier-- he's a very good character, but he is grossly overrated simply because of his chain grab. Mid or high A tier is about where he should be. Maybe even low A tier, who knows.

People are getting smarter about avoiding the CG yes. I could seem him going down in time if others start to improve. But for now, bottom of Stier is good enough.

 

[Scipion121212]

Main thing I see wrong about tier list is that Bowser is silly low. Really. He can CG everyone except DK and has many combos from grab release (even Dtilt many times). Has best OOS game and quite big range.
EDIT: sorry, forgot DDD infinite >_> making him unviable unless used as a counterpick. Yeah.. :/

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I don't think pummel grab release infinites matter as much as people say. ZSS has walking release CGs on Pikachu, MK, Squirtle, and Lucas and standing ones (infinites) on Wario and Squirtle and none of those matchups are any better than even, with Squirtle being 6:4 Squirtle.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Bowser's do, seeing how easy it is for him to use them.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Bowser's do, seeing how easy it is for him to use them.

Well, grabbing as ZSS isn't -easy,- but it's far from impossible. All you need to do is land one dsmash or paralyzer shot and it's a free grab and it's great for punishing laggy moves.

If I wanted, I could grab squirtle, smack him to 220% with pummels and throw up and he'd die, lol. But the matchup is still overall in his favor.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Or.... we know better than to judge standards of smexiness from a Nintendo character???

I can love myself without thinking a video game character is hot. In fact, probably a great majoirty of this planet does that. They just don't know it because they haven't been near a Nintendo.

*EDIT:


Pit certainly doesn't play more manly than Marth. Have you ever used down-taunt? gg

OMG u r so rite I LOOOOOOOVE to watch Ness swing that BAT. so **** sexy

...

Seriously kid, go masturbate to Powerpuff Girls or something.

You see, this is why I don't joke with people on this site and dislike this community or show any emotions online. people take so much **** to the butt. it was a joke. Stop freaking assuming you know when I am serious. It was quite obvious I was kidding. De de qiablo man....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So I did some research and added things up. DK belongs over Peach, But not Pit. Peach should at least move up one spot since she did not move on this tier list at all. Thats why I wanna talk with the top Pit main out.

 

[Scipion121212]

Well, grabbing as ZSS isn't -easy,- but it's far from impossible. All you need to do is land one dsmash or paralyzer shot and it's a free grab and it's great for punishing laggy moves.

If I wanted, I could grab squirtle, smack him to 220% with pummels and throw up and he'd die, lol. But the matchup is still overall in his favor.

But this is because he is probably THE hardest character to grab.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Squirtle? No he's not. Wario is by FAR harder to grab. And probably Jigglypuff. One could also argue that that MK is harder to grab due to how fast his attacks are.

 

[mountain_tiger]

So I did some research and added things up. DK belongs over Peach, But not Pit. Peach should at least move up one spot since she did not move on this tier list at all. Thats why I wanna talk with the top Pit main out.

Peach over DK? Really? I can sort of see her going over Pit, but not Donkey Kong.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Opps, I ment DK over Peach.

But yea Pit over Peach, nah.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I think Pit is a good candidate for high tier (once there's a good Pit player, lol), and I wouldn't say Peach is as good.

 

[Dark.Pch]

What High tier qualities Pit has?

 

[mountain_tiger]

I think Pit is a good candidate for high tier (once there's a good Pit player, lol), and I wouldn't say Peach is as good.

Clearly you've never been hit by her USmash.

In all seriousness, I think that Peach is fine where she is now.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Squirtle? No he's not. Wario is by FAR harder to grab. And probably Jigglypuff. One could also argue that that MK is harder to grab due to how fast his attacks are.

no Sonic?
=( I are saddedededed