The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v3.0

[A New England Winter]

****, now I gotta drop Kirby so people won't call me a tier *****. Sucks.

 

[Mr.E]

People overrate Wario more than they overrate his grab-release issues. His design and playstyle ensures he's got all-around solid match-ups... essentially just making him a worse Marth. Where Diddy got a big boost in accolades when NL beat M2K with him and Pikachu players have found a whole host of new chain throw shenanigans since the last revision, nothing notable has happened on the Wario front either. I don't understand the recent Wario nuthugging.

In other news, I'm not sure how Dedede remains so high when he has more bad match-ups than good ones against the upper tiers, yet G&W and ROB drop like a rock.

 

[choknater]

I'm pretty sure the SBR doesn't talk about matchups in the same way you guys do... lol number-assigned ratios are so silly..

Well, I like the tier list!

I've liked every Brawl tier list so far lol so keep it up.

However... I think Link is much better than that haha

You guys should watch Kel's new videos against smasher's link

AMAZING

 

[Kitamerby]

10thisisntaweekafterbrawlcameouts

Odd, you could've fooled me with all of your talk about ZSS being above mid.

 

[G-Beast]

wow i knew Wario was going to go up, but not that much!!

i cry @ Lucario =(

yay for Pokemon trainer going up again!
...i still think his pokemon should be tiered differently

G&W... not surprised.

waht? pika?

lawl @ falcon going up

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Odd, you could've fooled me with all of your talk about ZSS being above mid.

Uh, ZSS was 22nd on the first tier list and is 15th now and should probably be higher. WHen the game first came out everyone was all "lol all side b and bad recovery GIMP THAT TETHER." So no.

 

[DemonFart]

Hooray for Jiggly, PT and Wario!

 

[Kitamerby]

Uh, ZSS was 22nd on the first tier list and is 15th now and should probably be higher. WHen the game first came out everyone was all "lol side b and bad recovery GIMP THAT TETHER." So no.

So just because she moved up a few spots means the pattern will continue?
What makes you believe she'll be higher?

Sonic was like bottom 5 in the first tier list, and now he's 13th worst. Does that mean he'll take 12th place next tier list?

ZSS has reached her peak. It's either downhill, or no movement from here on out.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

So just because she moved up a few spots means the pattern will continue?

By your logic at the rate Sonic is jumping up he'll pass ZSS by 4.0

Also, in general Lucario was considered worse than ZSS by the same people saying that ZSS was as gimpable as Olimar. (Which is untrue. She's ever-so-slightly harder to gimp than Olimar.)

1. Good ZSS players don't get gimped unless they mess up. She is way harder to gimp than Olimar. This statement is how I know you don't know anything.

2. My point was that no one said ZSS was higher than mid at release, if anything they thought she was lower.

ZSS has reached her peak. It's either downhill, or no movement from here on out.

Stop by the ZSS forums today and read some of the stuff we have going on (check out Dazlocks) and get back to me later. There's no where to go but up, sorry.

 

[sallas09]

LOL Sadaharu had it coming

But this tier list is much better than the last one; kudos to Wario, Sonic, and Pokemon Trainer.

and hooray Yoshi.

 

[2Sko]

noooooooo Donkey Kong!!!! nooooo

 

[G-Beast]

So just because she moved up a few spots means the pattern will continue?
What makes you believe she'll be higher?

Sonic was like bottom 5 in the first tier list, and now he's 13th worst. Does that mean he'll take 12th place next tier list?

ZSS has reached her peak. It's either downhill, or no movement from here on out.

kita will you quit it? just looking at your responses makes my head hurt.

you really have not shown any real reasons of whether or not this is true or not. mind you i do think sonic should be lower.. but i do think that ZSS will probably move up 1 or 2 at best

 

[Mr.E]

Since this topic is moving too fast to reasonably edit my post for new content, I'll make a new post here.

Elaborating on my previous statement, "People overrate Wario more than they overrate his grab-release issues." How hard is it to actually grab Wario? Let's take a look at the only character that EVERYBODY has to play the "Don't Get Grabbed" game against, Ice Climbers. Does Wario really avoid their grabs all that easy? Sure, he's better than a lot of characters at it. He has amazing air control and has excellent shield pressure. But he doesn't have the massive range and disjointedness of Ike, Marth, G&W. He doesn't have projectiles like ROB and Snake. He doesn't float ad nauseum ala the puffballs.

Yes, the sheer control of Wario allows him to fare better than arguably any character at avoiding a grab in close range but the other facets of his game work against him in that regard. In other words, Wario's garbage range and lack of projectiles ensures he is always going to be in range of a grab any time he attacks. While his great shield pressure and ease of crossing up still make him good at avoiding grabs, the fact he has to be virtually on top of an opponent to deal damage makes him inherently less safe than many characters who actually have the option to fight outside of grab range. Marth's long melee range and Falco's excellent projectile camping game are two good examples of such characters.

 

[Ranor469]

Inui bottom tier WTF?!?! He should at least be mid tier

Also, i think it is

S= Top
A= High
B= High Mid
C= Low Mid
D= High Low
E= Mid Low
F= Bottom Low (or just Bottom)

 

[Count]

I dunno anything else about zss but I'm fairly sure the matchup vs diddy is worse than 45:55.

Diddy doesn't have many 6:4 matchups but I'm pretty sure ZSS is one of them. There is a reason snakeee uses peach against diddy kong.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I dunno anything else about zss but I'm fairly sure the matchup vs diddy is worse than 45:55.

Diddy doesn't have many 6:4 matchups but I'm pretty sure ZSS is one of them. There is a reason snakeee uses peach against diddy kong.

He uses Peach because Peach owns Diddy Kong and he plays Peach well. Why wouldn't he?

There's a lot of dissent over the Diddy match, but even Snakeee says it's not that bad.

 

[fromundaman]

Inui bottom tier WTF?!?! He should at least be mid tier

Well, Inui does have a 0:100 matchup vs Snake.



Also, you guys forget how well Wario can air camp.
He can essentially stall for half the game, and odds are, you're not only going to have to approach, even with a projectile, but in most cases you'll only actually reach him if he feels like letting you do so.

 

[MoblinMan]

Ganon > those other guys


Is that list upside down?

Yes it is.. Yes it is

 

[MarKO X]

Sonic was like bottom 5 in the first tier list, and now he's 13th worst. Does that mean he'll take 12th place next tier list?

Don't hate Kita. loljk

Well, Inui does have a 0:100 matchup vs Snake.

He also gets hard countered by Sonic.

 

[prOAPC]

Lucas is the new MK of low tier lol

try gimp Lucas when he can do this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqgnzcD17iM
where's your fludd now? XD

and Lucas has been better than Ness since launch, seriously

 

[Anth0ny]

Very good list. I think GW should be where Marth is and Falco should be where DDD is, but other than that, it's flawless.

And I lol'd at Inui lower than Ganon. That's just harsh LOL

 

[Gates]

Jigglypuff
Captain Falcon
Link
Ganondorf
Sadaharu Inui

LFMAO.

You should add Overswarm to this tier list too. Put him right below Sonic.

 

[AranOcean]

lol. Wario 3rd? Ah well.

Hurray for Pikachu! 9th place. w00t. :3

 

[Tennet]

Lat day of School AND a new tier list rofl.

 

[Sgt. Baker]

This will probably be a long reply but here's what my input about the Tier List. This is all just my own opinion, nothing to be taken all seriously

First off, as the tier list as a whole, I think this is the best list yet (IMHO). There has been much radical change and diversity with this list. Now the rankings:


S-Tier

1. Meta Knight- DUH lol. It's known that Meta Knight is the most dominant character in the game, but with this shocking revalation of a tier list is proof that a Meta-Ban isn't needed.

2. Snake- Duh too lol. Snake's just going to stick behind Meta Knight. Personally I think a good Snake is tougher than a good Meta Knight but that's just cause the nades and power get to my characters quicker than Meta's speed.

3. Wario- I personally find this amazing, in a good way. Wario has proven to be a powerful character and now he gets some recognition. I may not rep him in Brawl but he is my main in Mario Party

4. Falco- I believe as time passes I think Diddy may be able to outmatch Falco, but for now Falco is still better.

5. Diddy Kong- I love this monkey. The nannerz may be annoying but he has been boosted to a well-deserved spot for him.

6. King Dedede- Honestly, I don't belive that Dedede should be that high up to begin with. But his grabs have made him a force. But as it has been shown with these lists, he keeps dropping little by little. Will he continue to drop?


A-Tier

7. Marth- If Marth is able to boost his metagame just a bit more, I believe he can over rank King Dedede- but 6 seems to be the highest he'd go for awhile.

8. Mr. Game & Watch- G&W is a tough guy yes, but I don't see him moving up OR down for now. 8's a solid spot for him.

9. Pikachu- Love this mouse, I'm happy Pikachu moved up, he deserves it.

10. Olimar- I personally hate this gardner but he has the essentials to remain strong.

11. Ice Climbers- This surprised me, I thought they would be up past Pikachu at least.

12. R.O.B.- I don't see that much hype about R.O.B.- I think he'll just keep with the downward decent.

13. Kirby- I'm not a big fan of Kirby due to my ex-g/f being named Kirby (no joke lol). I don't really see him moving up at all, maybe he'll either stay there or decrease?


B-Tier

14. Lucario- Not surprised really, I believ that ZSS and Toon Link may be able to outpace him.

15. Zero Suit Samus- I believe that ZSS has some of the most potential in the whole cast. I believe with more rep's and some more advancements she could rank even higher.

16. Toon Link- I hate fighting TL's but I like that advance. I can see him outpacing Lucario (maybe R.O.B?) but nothing more after that.

17. Pit- Eh, bit iffy about this one, I see him going down too.

18. Donkey Kong- Love the ape but I don't see him rising up anymore with everyone else outgrowing him.


C-Tier

19. Peach- I can see Peach moving up in future lists.

20. Luigi- I love Weegee but I don't see him going anywhere from here.

21. Fox- A "secret" main of mine (I don't tell many that I use him till I play them). I'm happy with Fox's improvement. I can see him bumping past Maybe Luigi and DK but nothing more than that.

22. Wolf- I can see with more use Wolf brushing past DK and Luigi too. But personally I find Fox the better of the two.

23. Sonic- Needs more steak to move up.

24. Sheik- My main. I'm happy of her improvement indeed. I can see her moving up too (not favoritism, but I believe she can outmatch at least Fox).


D-Tier

25. Bowser- Go Koopa! This may be a solid spot for Bowser though

26. Zelda- I didn't see that much hype wit Zelda either, I see her going down one more or so.

27. Pokémon Trainer- This shocked me but I'm happy. I see much potential in the Pokemon Trainer.

28. Ike- Ike I believe can get outpaced by Lucas, Mario, but those two need to step it up.


E-Tier

29. Lucas- I love this guy, I use him on occasion as a sub. I see Lucas bumping past Ike but not more than that though.

30. Mario- One of my new favorites . Mario has an amazing, untapped gimping game, I belive with more work from Mario mains he can only go up.

31. Ness- I personally always thought that Lucas was better than Ness, and here's the proof . I don't really see Ness improving in the lists at all.

32. Yoshi- I don't really see Yoshi going up anymore.

33. Samus- I think Samus has potential- I can see her going past Yoshi at least.


F-Tier

34. Jigglypuff- I don't find Jigglypuff all that menacing, I see her moving either down or staying put.

35. Captain Falcon- I can see him pushing past Ganondorf but the Link aspect got me. But anyways, only a little bit more till he's High Tier again

36. Link- I believe that Link has the ability to brush past Jigglypuff and C. Falcon, btu not much more after that unfortunately.

37. Ganondorf- Ganondorf is, and will always be, mah boi . But I knew he would be bottom of the bottom. He has too many negatives going for him to compete. And sorry, but he is just too epic for this game.

38. Sadaharu Inui- lulz



Well, that's my input, sorry for the extensive list. If you're bored I hope I gave you some reading material

 

[CRASHiC]

6. King Dedede- Honestly, I don't belive that Dedede should be that high up to begin with. But his grabs have made him a force. But as it has been shown with these lists, he keeps dropping little by little. Will he continue to drop?

He doesn't go down. Others around him go up.

 

[Sgt. Baker]

He doesn't go down. Others around him go up.

That's a good input- didn't think of that. Thank you for that.

 

[RikotheFoxKid]

Man, Sonic went UP! :D

Now I feel better about trying to main him.

I also applaud the rise of Captain Falcon (even though it wasn't much).

Awesome list.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

This will probably be a long reply but here's what my input about the Tier List. This is all just my own opinion, nothing to be taken all seriously

First off, as the tier list as a whole, I think this is the best list yet (IMHO). There has been much radical change and diversity with this list. Now the rankings:


S-Tier

1. Meta Knight- DUH lol. It's known that Meta Knight is the most dominant character in the game, but with this shocking revalation of a tier list is proof that a Meta-Ban isn't needed.

2. Snake- Duh too lol. Snake's just going to stick behind Meta Knight. Personally I think a good Snake is tougher than a good Meta Knight but that's just cause the nades and power get to my characters quicker than Meta's speed.

3. Wario- I personally find this amazing, in a good way. Wario has proven to be a powerful character and now he gets some recognition. I may not rep him in Brawl but he is my main in Mario Party

4. Falco- I believe as time passes I think Diddy may be able to outmatch Falco, but for now Falco is still better.

5. Diddy Kong- I love this monkey. The nannerz may be annoying but he has been boosted to a well-deserved spot for him.

6. King Dedede- Honestly, I don't belive that Dedede should be that high up to begin with. But his grabs have made him a force. But as it has been shown with these lists, he keeps dropping little by little. Will he continue to drop?


A-Tier

7. Marth- If Marth is able to boost his metagame just a bit more, I believe he can over rank King Dedede- but 6 seems to be the highest he'd go for awhile.

8. Mr. Game & Watch- G&W is a tough guy yes, but I don't see him moving up OR down for now. 8's a solid spot for him.

9. Pikachu- Love this mouse, I'm happy Pikachu moved up, he deserves it.

10. Olimar- I personally hate this gardner but he has the essentials to remain strong.

11. Ice Climbers- This surprised me, I thought they would be up past Pikachu at least.

12. R.O.B.- I don't see that much hype about R.O.B.- I think he'll just keep with the downward decent.

13. Kirby- I'm not a big fan of Kirby due to my ex-g/f being named Kirby (no joke lol). I don't really see him moving up at all, maybe he'll either stay there or decrease?


B-Tier

14. Lucario- Not surprised really, I believ that ZSS and Toon Link may be able to outpace him.

15. Zero Suit Samus- I believe that ZSS has some of the most potential in the whole cast. I believe with more rep's and some more advancements she could rank even higher.

16. Toon Link- I hate fighting TL's but I like that advance. I can see him outpacing Lucario (maybe R.O.B?) but nothing more after that.

17. Pit- Eh, bit iffy about this one, I see him going down too.

18. Donkey Kong- Love the ape but I don't see him rising up anymore with everyone else outgrowing him.


C-Tier

19. Peach- I can see Peach moving up in future lists.

20. Luigi- I love Weegee but I don't see him going anywhere from here.

21. Fox- A "secret" main of mine (I don't tell many that I use him till I play them). I'm happy with Fox's improvement. I can see him bumping past Maybe Luigi and DK but nothing more than that.

22. Wolf- I can see with more use Wolf brushing past DK and Luigi too. But personally I find Fox the better of the two.

23. Sonic- Needs more steak to move up.

24. Sheik- My main. I'm happy of her improvement indeed. I can see her moving up too (not favoritism, but I believe she can outmatch at least Fox).


D-Tier

25. Bowser- Go Koopa! This may be a solid spot for Bowser though

26. Zelda- I didn't see that much hype wit Zelda either, I see her going down one more or so.

27. Pokémon Trainer- This shocked me but I'm happy. I see much potential in the Pokemon Trainer.

28. Ike- Ike I believe can get outpaced by Lucas, Mario, but those two need to step it up.


E-Tier

29. Lucas- I love this guy, I use him on occasion as a sub. I see Lucas bumping past Ike but not more than that though.

30. Mario- One of my new favorites . Mario has an amazing, untapped gimping game, I belive with more work from Mario mains he can only go up.

31. Ness- I personally always thought that Lucas was better than Ness, and here's the proof . I don't really see Ness improving in the lists at all.

32. Yoshi- I don't really see Yoshi going up anymore.

33. Samus- I think Samus has potential- I can see her going past Yoshi at least.


F-Tier

34. Jigglypuff- I don't find Jigglypuff all that menacing, I see her moving either down or staying put.

35. Captain Falcon- I can see him pushing past Ganondorf but the Link aspect got me. But anyways, only a little bit more till he's High Tier again

36. Link- I believe that Link has the ability to brush past Jigglypuff and C. Falcon, btu not much more after that unfortunately.

37. Ganondorf- Ganondorf is, and will always be, mah boi . But I knew he would be bottom of the bottom. He has too many negatives going for him to compete. And sorry, but he is just too epic for this game.

38. Sadaharu Inui- lulz



Well, that's my input, sorry for the extensive list. If you're bored I hope I gave you some reading material

Nah it was a good read, I agree with a lot of the stuff. By the way, don't feel afraid to post your opinion . "This is all just my own opinion, nothing to be taken all seriously "

Well according to this i think you posted this part so ignorant people can't flame? Well anyways yeah, remember even the SBR's tire list is an opinion, so anyone's opinion should be taken cereal.

Yeah it is a bit strange how CF got above link. but like they said, the lower chars were really close to eachother, and the voting process wasn't as accurate as can be when it came to deciding which people go above who.

Im disappointed that Mario is between lucas and ness now. I just remember how funny and amusing it was to always see them next to eachother in a tire list XD

That's a good input- didn't think of that. Thank you for that.

__________________

Yeah this is what I think it should be thought of as. In most cases, at least.

 

[MorphedChaos]

Mario will go up a couple ranks next tier list.

Wario might be no. 2 next tier list if his tourny winnings keep going like this. He has a pretty good matchup vs Snake, and is the only other character that goes even with MK.

 

[Neon Ness]

I'm glad Ness and Lucas are no longer adjacent; I thought they'd always be next to each other. That just fostered the stereotype that they're "clones". I think maybe people are starting to realize their differences. (Hopefully.)

 

[Hakaku]

Wario 3rd best???
Didn't think that would happen....
At least jiggs and falcon went up a little bit..
Falcon should be higher though..

 

[kr3wman]

Falcon should be lower.

Ganon is leagues better than him.

 

[smashkng]

CF should either be last or 2nd to last IMO, he's a terrible character.

 

[Emblem Lord]

MK 40:60
Falco 35:65
Diddy 45:55
Sheik 40:60
Luigi 40:60
Pit 45:55

Pit and Diddy aren't bad at all, Sheik doesnt' matter, Luigi is rare and isn't that bad, I guess, MK is MK.

We are 55:45 vs Snake, even with Wario, beat Dedede pretty hard, even with marth, beat GAW hard, even with pika, even or better with Olimar (this matchup is pretty heavily disagreed upon, our best players say we win though), own ICs (70:30), own ROB, and kirby is 60:40 ZSS.

I agree that we need rep, though. You guys should play ZSS.

This is old, but wtf are you talking about?

Marth loses to Deded and Snake slightly and loses to MK badly.

That's..pretty much it.

ZSS loses to ****in Luigi and Sheik? And you seriously think she should be above Marth.

Please...just stop.

Seems like ZSS can hold her own against a few of the tops, but loses to silly characters here and there.

Also she gets man handled by Falco. A common top tier character. and still loses slightly to Diddy another common top tier. Seems like she has has to worry about more nonsense then Marth does.

 

[Da Man]

How the hell did Pokemon Trainer and Sonic gone up so much?

And Mario is down 3 places . Lucas is now above both him and Ness making this a lot worse.

Least Luigi gone up a place, along with PT like I said.

For such a popular series the cast of LoZ sure aren't doing well on the list.

 

[Phiddlesticks]

CF should either be last or 2nd to last IMO, he's a terrible character.

Yeah, because the fact that he's 3rd last means he isn't terrible at all

 

[Denfo]

Yeah, because the fact that he's 3rd last means he isn't terrible at all

Link should at least be ahead of him imo. I have serious doubts about Link being as bad as his placement is on this list. Tbh I truly believe falcon belongs at the very bottom of the tier list.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

This is old, but wtf are you talking about?

Marth loses to Deded and Snake slightly and loses to MK badly.

That's..pretty much it.

ZSS loses to ****in Luigi and Sheik? And you seriously think she should be above Marth.

Please...just stop.

Seems like ZSS can hold her own against a few of the tops, but loses to silly characters here and there.

Also she gets man handled by Falco. A common top tier character. and still loses slightly to Diddy another common top tier. Seems like she has has to worry about more nonsense then Marth does.

Uh, ZSS ***** (d3, gaw, ICs, rob) or beats (kirby, snake, ROB, olimar) nearly every character above her, goes even (marth, pikachu, wario, lucario) or close to even (diddy) with every character above her except for MK and Falco. MK is winnable, and Falco is bad, but not that bad. Plus, I'd rather lose badly to Falco than lose badly to MK. She doesn't just "hold her own" at the top, she does **** well.

ZSS' matches with Luigi and Sheik are annoying, but there are characters in S and A tier that lose worse to other characters. Educated yourself. Diddy vs Peach, Diddy vs Luigi, Ice Climbers vs. Link, (actually Diddy vs a good portion of mid tier) Dedede vs Zelda, ROB vs Fox, Wario vs Peach, and those are just off the top of my head.

 

[Zenthewanderer]

Well, I gotta say, this one's better than the last two.... That counts for something. Go Sonic. ^^