The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v3.0

[Da Man]

Well, I gotta say, this one's better than the last two.... That counts for something. Go Sonic. ^^

With one exception: MARIO AND NESS HAVE GONE DOWN SOME PLACES!!!

 

[noradseven]

This is old, but wtf are you talking about?

Marth loses to Deded and Snake slightly and loses to MK badly.

That's..pretty much it.

ZSS loses to ****in Luigi and Sheik? And you seriously think she should be above Marth.

Please...just stop.

Seems like ZSS can hold her own against a few of the tops, but loses to silly characters here and there.

Also she gets man handled by Falco. A common top tier character. and still loses slightly to Diddy another common top tier. Seems like she has has to worry about more nonsense then Marth does.

Bit of a difference here, because both Sheik and Luigi are tricky to use and are not commonly seen in tournaments, and we recently discovered a few gimmicks that should close the gap on Falco at least it has in casuals for me so far, and I personally think Diddy is an even fight.

Plus I mean ZSS has positives on alot of S tier, and A tier is all even or positive.

edit: our worst fights are like pit, then falco, lucairo, and sheik but after that they are close to even, and even those matches arn't unwinable, I mean 6.5:3.5, and 6:4 is doable, and that is only like what 4 characters.

 

[Kuhn]

Pretty good tier list if I do say so. Didn't see Sonic jumping 8 spots though. And yay for Falcon not being bottom!

Both of my characters dropped.

Poor DK.

And Lucario. Even though I think he should be above Kirby at least. Any reason why Lucario dropped so much?

 

[:mad:]

A tear shed for us Mario and Ness mains. But... Sonic and PT have been putting up some amazing results. They have so many star players and things being discovered. Mario has Kirin and Famous, Ness has Shaky. That's it.

 

[Emblem Lord]

You are right that Diddy and Wario and other top tiers have bad match-ups, but both of them do really well vs the top tier as a whole.

ZSS doesn't seem to do that much better then Marth. She simply trades in some match-ups for others.

Besides, she loses to far more characters then Marth.

Marth loses to 3 characters. This is the general consensus. It could be argued that he loses to 5 at the most really.

How many is ZSS losing to?

7? 8? I didn't count.

Both of them lose to the character that matters the most MK.

Let's get that out there. Then Marth has slight disadvantage to Snake and Dedede. Beats Falco, Diddy, and Wario. ZSS stomps Dedede and either goes even or has very slight advantage on Snake. She loses to Diddy though and loses badly to Falco.

Like I said, when I look at them as characters it just seems like slight exchange of match-ups. But the key is that she loses to alot more characters then Marth.

Marth is a safer pick overall.

But yeah sure move her up. It doesn't matter.

You lose to two or more characters in the top tier and you don't matter. That goes for blue haired swordsmen and gun totting bounty hunters with skin tight body suits.

 

[BleachigoZX]

One of the greatest posts I've ever seen....

It's true, he sucks.

 

[Da Man]

A tear shed for us Mario and Ness mains. But... Sonic and PT have been putting up some amazing results. They have so many star players and things being discovered. Mario has Kirin and Famous, Ness has Shaky. That's it.

You forgot Boss and Bo X7 for Mario -_-.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

You are right that Diddy and Wario and other top tiers have bad match-ups, but both of them do really well vs the top tier as a whole.

ZSS doesn't seem to do that much better then Marth. She simply trades in some match-ups for others.

Besides, she loves to far more characters then Marth.

Marth loses to 3 characters. This is the general consensus. It could be argued that he loses to 5 at the most really.

How many is ZSS losing to?

7? 8? I didn't count.

Both of them lose to the character that matters the most MK.

Let's get that out there. Then Marth has slight disadvantage to Snake and Dedede. Beats Falco, Diddy, and Wario. ZSS stomps Dedede and either goes even or has very slight advantage on Snake. She loses to Diddy though and loses badly to Falco.

Like I said, when I look at them as characters it just seems like slight exchange of match-ups. But the key is that she loses to alot more characters then Marth.

Marth is a safer pick overall.

But yeah sure move her up. It doesn't matter.

You lose to two or more characters in the top tier and you don't matter. That goes for blue haired swordsmen and gun totting bounty hunters with skin tight body suits.

It's arguable. Everyone loses to MK but maybe Wario and Snake. ZSS is no exception, but her matchup with MK is better than many. She loses to Falco. That's it. There's her two. How does she not matter? You're grasping at straws.

ZSS is tourney viable. She's more tourney viable than Marth, because she goes better vs the high and top tiers; half the characters she really "loses" to aren't viable themselves.

Her "bad" matchups are... Falco. I don't see 40:60 as being that bad, but if we're counting those, we've got MK, Sheik, and Luigi. She's got four "bad" matchups even then. And they ain't that bad. There are top tier characters with more, including Diddy Kong.

 

[Emblem Lord]

If you can't win a national, you do not matter.

Done.

And you do not grasp the full implications of a 60/40 match-up. The difference between 55/45 and 60/40 is freaking huge.

It essentially means you can't hope to win a set in a 60/40 match-up.

Winning a 2/3 set let alone a 3/5 set in finals is going to be stupidly hard.

Grasping at straws?

Dude..it's a ****in tier list. Whether a character is first or last doesn't mean ****. It doesn't magically mean that character is better or worse. It means that the humans that made the list consider that character amazing or terrible according to what they know about said character.

Anyway, this tier list is very much metagame based.

ZSS is where she is because she isn't going anything. So fix that by doing stuff with her.

You did say one thing I agree with.

Marth isn't viable. But then again I never implied that he was. *shrug.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

If you can't win a national, you do not matter.

Done.

Marth can't win a national, ZSS probably could do it alone. Marth has about a thousand more good players than ZSS does, though, so it's hard to tell.

 

[Steel]

LOL?

Marth has like 3 good players. Maybe only 2.

And it's well known Marth won't win a national. Zamus can't either.

 

[:mad:]

Boss uses more Luigi and Bo uses more ROB.

Still, Mario's a bad character.

 

[zeldspazz]

Some just random critique-

-Why did Zelda go down so much? She just about equal matchups with EVERY character except a select few (gets ***** hard by olimar and GaW but ***** CF). I excepted her to stay about the same but down 4? Idk seems a bit illogical to me. Is it the tourny placements or seomthing?

-Sonic....wow =P

-I thought that yoshi's even matchup with metaknight would help him a bit more but up is always good

-Link isnt that bad is he. Under CF?

A lot of good things though =)

-Seperation between Ness and Lucas was needed

-Ganon bottom I agree with

-I never thought Dedede truly deserved top 5 just my opinion though

A well thought out list overall though some good decisions, don't flame me I'm not up to date with tourny info and junk just my opinion

 

[CaliburChamp]

The Ness and Lucas players must be pissed! Ouch!

They shouldn't be that low.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Might wanna reread my post.

I hit post before I was done.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Bo still uses a lot of Mario.

Neither Marth nor Zamus will ever win a national, just leave it at that.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Bo still uses a lot of Mario.

Neither Marth nor Zamus will ever win a national, just leave it at that.

Probably true, but it's not because ZSS as a character isn't capable of doing so.

EDIT: EL, most of your post wasn't really worth arguing with because it was just a bunch of outlandish flamebait, but a tier list is important because it draws new players in. It's a cycle; a higher position on the tier list tells people a character has a better chance of winning a tourney. More people playing your character means a better chance to improve the metagame. ZSS has three national-level players and all of them are ranked in their respective regions. Dazwa is #1, Nick Riddle is #2. Most of the characters above ZSS (at least the ones in A tier) do not have a better chance than she does. Also:

And you do not grasp the full implications of a 60/40 match-up. The difference between 55/45 and 60/40 is freaking huge.

I don't really agree with this. 40:60 requires you to make less mistakes than your opponent. 65:35, 70:30 is where it starts getting into "pick a secondary" territory.

 

[Camalange]

guys...Sonic = too good

Let's not get off topic here.

 

[.Marik]

Yoshi needs to be higher.

Top of D Tier would be acceptable.

Sonic deserves to be C, people have been getting good Tournament results with him, and glad to see Samus is out of Bottom and Falcon isn't dead last.

Pretty accurate list, although Wario is pretty freaking high.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Dude..it's a ****in tier list. Whether a character is first or last doesn't mean ****. It doesn't magically mean that character is better or worse. It means that the humans that made the list consider that character amazing or terrible according to what they know about said character.

So...I'm...NOT getting a SBR-B patch to make Sonic awesomer? T_T

Edit: lolCammy

 

[noradseven]

I think yoshi still has problems that he really isn't going to be able to get around, unless there is some yoshi I don't know about winning tournies or getting really far at least.

Link needs to move up, poor dude.

Probably true, but it's not because ZSS as a character isn't capable of doing so.

Drop it man.

 

[sasook]

Anyway, this tier list is very much metagame based.

ZSS is where she is because she isn't going anything. So fix that by doing stuff with her

Well, lately the ZSS boards have been doing a lot of experimenting with buffering, and have been finding a lot of new things. So, perhaps the next tier list she'll be higher. *shrug*




On a side note, the Ganon mains wanna move up. The Link mains wanna move down. No one really cares about the bottom tiers anyway, so how about you guys (@ SBR-B) just give it to them? lol


EDIT: Cam's sonic is broken. He needs to be banned =P

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

I think yoshi still has problems that he really isn't going to be able to get around, unless there is some yoshi I don't know about winning tournies or getting really far at least.

Link needs to move up, poor dude.



Drop it man.

Huh. I didn't even know you were on Smashboards.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

On a side note, the Ganon mains wanna move up. The Link mains wanna move down. No one really cares about the bottom tiers anyway, so how about you guys (@ SBR-B) just give it to them? lol

I lol'd.

10chars

 

[Emblem Lord]

If a character is facing a slew of 40/60's in tourney it stands to reason that they really won't win that tourney.

They could place. Sure.

But win? Highly unlikely.

In a tourney full of top tiers, ZSS has a better shot. But it's not because she is the bettert character. She simply has a few better match-ups out of the ones that matter. Namely MK and Snake. The two most common characters who are also the most powerful.

It wasn't outlandish and it wasn't flamebait. I wasn't insulting you nor was I trying to provoke you. I just realized that ultimately it's pointless to debate because this list is very much based on tourney results of which ZSS isn't doing much consistently.

So if ZSS mains want her to be higher they should do something about it. Now I personally don't think it's due to lack of effort. I think both Marth and ZSS lose to good characters and that's what holds them back.

Plain and simple

 

[sasook]

So if ZSS mains want her to be higher they should do something about it. Now I personally don't think it's due to lack of effort. I think both Marth and ZSS lose to good characters and that's what holds them back.

I feel it's more of a lack of representation. That's not just for ZSS, that goes for Marth too. There's not enough ZSSs at Snakeee's level, and not enough Marths at Pierce's level.

 

[.Marik]

I think yoshi still has problems that he really isn't going to be able to get around, unless there is some yoshi I don't know about winning tournies or getting really far at least.

Bwett, Green Ace, PRiDE, the list goes on.

He's not winning anytime soon, but he ranks pretty godd@mn high for someone classified as E Tier.

I've seen 25th at WHOBO, 9th, 7th, etc...etc...

Whatever.

 

[JOE!]

Yoshi needs to be higher.

Top of D Tier would be acceptable.

Sonic deserves to be C, people have been getting good Tournament results with him, and glad to see Samus is out of Bottom and Falcon isn't dead last.

Pretty accurate list, although Wario is pretty freaking high.

truth, he has decent matchups and OK tourney results...he should be a smidge higher.

Im also iffy on Wario being 3rd, I mean, he's amazing but...i cant help thinking Falco is a bit better <.<

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I feel it's more of a lack of representation. That's not just for ZSS, that goes for Marth too. There's not enough ZSSs at Snakeee's level, and not enough Marths at Pierce's level.

This. sasook you aren't on IRC what is this i don't even

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Yoshi's cool. He's my favorite Pokemon!

NOW YOSHI! DO SOMETHING OUT OF SHIELD!

But Yoshi didn't listen....


Ugh... Stupid Yoshi.

 

[Poltergust]

Yoshi's cool. He's my favorite Pokemon!

NOW YOSHI! DO SOMETHING OUT OF SHIELD!

But Yoshi didn't listen....


Ugh... Stupid Yoshi.

*spot-dodges*

Hey, it's something, right? =P

But seriously, Yoshi needs to be higher. He's still a bit too low.

 

[Emblem Lord]

There are enough high level Marth's and the Marth boards have never deluded themselves as to why Marth doesn't win.

There is a better Marth with more range, more speed and with 6 jumps.

Perhaps you have heard of him?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

*spot-dodges*

Hey, it's something, right? =P

But seriously, Yoshi needs to be higher. He's still a bit too low.

You have the most epic avatar ever and I want to steal it.

Also I do kind of agree, but I don't know where I'd put him yet. I need to watch more Yoshi matches. I want to do my part to advance the game more by picking up a low tier. Maybe Yoshi's where it's at.

There are enough high level Marth's and the Marth boards have never deluded themselves as to why Marth doesn't win.

There is a better Marth with more range, more speed and with 5 jumps.

Perhaps you have heard of him?

Doesn't MikeHAZE get 4th pretty often? That's not winning, but it is impressive (and is consistent with ZSS' placing too, not trying to argue with you about it just saying).

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

ugh double post, sorry.

 

[.Marik]

truth, he has decent matchups and OK tourney results...he should be a smidge higher.

Agreed.

Im also iffy on Wario being 3rd, I mean, he's amazing but...i cant help thinking Falco is a bit better <.<

Same here, I was wondering the same exact thing.

Yoshi's cool. He's my favorite Pokemon!

NOW YOSHI! DO SOMETHING OUT OF SHIELD!

But Yoshi didn't listen....


Ugh... Stupid Yoshi.

*Throws eggs*

But seriously, Yoshi needs to be higher. He's still a bit too low.

He's way too low.

We need a Yoshi mainer in the SBR. I'm thinking Bwett would be perfect. :]

Also I do kind of agree, but I don't know where I'd put him yet. I need to watch more Yoshi matches. I want to do my part to advance the game more by picking up a low tier. Maybe Yoshi's where it's at.

I'd put him bottom of C Tier or top of D Tier. Take your pick.

We'd like that. =)

And guys, both Marth and Zero Suit Samus are totally viable. Stop bickering about d@mn semantics.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

I love Yoshi. I really do. He was one of my favorites since Super Mario World.

I can't ****ing use him in Smash. You guys are nuts for doing it. lol

There are enough high level Marth's and the Marth boards have never deluded themselves as to why Marth doesn't win.

There is a better Marth with more range, more speed and with 6 jumps.

Perhaps you have heard of him?

Jigglypuff?

 

[xXTACXx]

wow Samus is higher than expected lululz.

 

[bigman40]

Any placement that doesn't say 8th or higher doesn't really matter.

@Terios: Being insane for something means that you like doing it

 

[PhantomX]

Wario's metagame has been and still is advancing pretty fast. Only recently have players started using his instant wipeout and bike to edgeguard and force readable and punishable moves from their opponents, who then lose a stock to a waft.

And yes, Wario can go an entire game without getting grabbed. If the Wario player is a douche, and he gets a stock lead on you, and he decides to aircamp and does it well, consider the match lost.

I think Wario is above Falco b/c Wario doesn't have any hard counters, whereas Falco has 2 (possibly Pika, and then ICs). Wario also has a CG on Falco as well

 

[.Marik]

I love Yoshi. I really do. He was one of my favorites since Super Mario World.

I can't ****ing use him in Smash. You guys are nuts for doing it. lol

Lol, it's what we do. <3

I'm a big fan of him, that's what motivated me to use him on such a competitive level.

Jigglypuff?

Lololololololol.