The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v3.0

[Kofu]

When does your fresh chaingrab stop working on Bowser? It's a bit beneficial to get hit by a few lasers in this case, assuming it's not like 70% or so.

 

[Kewkky]

Bowser can chaingrab Falco right back and he has the moves to punish the bird well.

He doesn't suffer from lazers more than anybody else really.

How can you chaingrab Falco if you can't even get close to him without going through trouble? Falco can at least silent laser>grab for some frame advantaged approaches, all you guys got is run in>grab if all goes good, or hope that he airdodges to the ground/shield one of his approaches and grab. And why is it that he doesn't suffer from laser approaches like everyone else? Bowser's hurtbox size (his height) makes it so Falco can pressure heavily with SHDL until you guys get close: pretty much your jumping approaches are nulled in this matchup when you're trying to approach, which is what you'll be trying to do at all times while Falco is shooting lasers at you from anywhere.

And Snake, he can control the field with his many explosives, as well as tilt you when you get close. Bowser's size makes it so that Snake can hit you pretty **** hard, as well as your attacks' ending lag makes it easy for him to catch you with surprise attacks (like a random DACUS while you land, or a tilt on your whiffed grabs).

Both the matchups seem so difficult for Bowser... I don't know why you guys can say that. Unless Bowser has some super awesome thing to turn around those cons with pros of the same weight...

When does your fresh chaingrab stop working on Bowser? It's a bit beneficial to get hit by a few lasers in this case, assuming it's not like 70% or so.

Bowser's heavy, big, and has no combo breakers, so escaping the chaingrab is pretty much impossible until like 5x-6x% as far as I know... And if he grabs you and makes it to the edges before those %s, then you eat a spike from which, if you don't find a way to avoid, you won't recover from.

 

[phi1ny3]

They don't have just "run in" entirely.
Even though klaw's isn't really good for solid approach, it's great once you've zoned him with it properly, and you can get a grab with that as well (canceled klaw -> grab).

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Falco ***** Bowser.

No, The matchup is close to even.

 

[Kinzer]

Bowser's heavy, big, and has no combo breakers, so escaping the chaingrab is pretty much impossible until like 5x-6x% as far as I know... And if he grabs you and makes it to the edges before those %s, then you eat a spike from which, if you don't find a way to avoid, you won't recover from.

i herd ya liek Up-B moves that are invincible on frame 1 and last until the hitbox comes on frame 5.

z'at tru?

Spoiler

No, I'm not talking about Martha.

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

When does your fresh chaingrab stop working on Bowser? It's a bit beneficial to get hit by a few lasers in this case, assuming it's not like 70% or so.

You can grab Bowser at least 5 times plus the dair for 50-60% so that doesn't matter. Dair > anything is not mandatory for a kill. It's all about rackin' up dat damage and before you know it King Koopa will be @ 110 or above where you can get a fatality w/ usmash or mainly bair.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

i herd ya liek Up-B moves that are invincible on frame 1 and last until the hitbox comes on frame 5.

z'at tru?

Invincible frames 1-5 and hits on 6.

 

[phi1ny3]

Yes.
Bowser upB imo is like better than Marth upB, even maybe MK upB, it does more damage, the knockback/fact that it's more mobile makes it far less punishable, and can kill at about the same percent as both of them (although a little later than Marth's I think).

 

[Kinzer]

Invincible frames 1-5 and hits on 6.

Oh.

Cool story bro Thank you for the clarification.

My point still stands, no matter the 4chan meme. Even moreso now.

 

[Kewkky]

i herd ya liek Up-B moves that are invincible on frame 1 and last until the hitbox comes on frame 5.

z'at tru?

Spoiler

No, I'm not talking about Martha.

And when are you going to use that? When Falco lasers you? You know, Falcos might never want to approach, they just do because camping gets boring. What if you find a Falco that camps you out and SHDL>grab? That's some frame advantage sexyness.

And if you mean upB on the frame advantage, and you do manage to do that, then what? Falco can just run away and start all over again... And I doubt your upB will give you % advantage against a character that can stay away if they want to and just camp it out, not to mention it'll get stale if that's all you'll be depending on so you won't depend on it for kills either.


I still don't know how Bowser can call Falco's MU even. If there's something I'm missing here that makes the MU easy for Bowser, then I'd like to hear what it is, please... His upB alone shouldn't be enough to get him the victory.

 

[Kinzer]

And when are you going to use that? When Falco lasers you? You know, Falcos might never want to approach, they just do because camping gets boring. What if you find a Falco that camps you out and SHDL>grab? That's some frame advantage sexyness.

And if you mean upB on the frame advantage, and you do manage to do that, then what? Falco can just run away and start all over again... And I doubt your upB will give you % advantage against a character that can stay away if they want to and just camp it out.


I still don't know how Bowser can call Falco's MU even. If there's something I'm missing here that makes the MU easy for Bowser, then I'd like to hear what it is, please... His upB alone shouldn't be enough to get him the victory.

I wasn't trying to pick a fight, I was just correcting you on how you said Boozer has no combo breaker, when he otherwise, does.

I sadly don't know enough about the character to speak on his behalf, even though I'd like to.

 

[DMG]

This tier list is horrible. I want to know the group who makes this list.

 

[Flayl]

Every time I hear a Bowser player say the Falco MU is even I have to wonder if the Falco they're playing is playing gay enough.

Bowser isn't grabbing Falco (klawing doesn't count).

 

[Kewkky]

I wasn't trying to pick a fight, I was just correcting you on how you said Boozer has no combo breaker, when he otherwise, does.

I sadly don't know enough about the character to speak on his behalf, even though I'd like to.

Kinzer, what makes you think I'm angry?

Sorry if I came off that way, I really am not ticked off, not even a little bit. Sorry.

 

[Kinzer]

...I dunno... I didn't even think you came off angry... Maybe it was my bad usage of words... but "pick an argument" doesn't come off the tongue as easily as "pick a fight" would...

Can we just get edjewmacated and say that Boozer has a C-C-C-C-C-Combo Breaker~! and call it day? :< I REALLY don't want to speak on behalf of Bowser for anything, I don't trust myself to get a quarter of what I say correct, concerning him. :/

 

[Meru.]

Also, his top tier matchups aren't that bad. Worst is Meta Knight (isnt that obvious).

Ha. I remember when Meta Knight was supposed to be a 45:55. Guess not ;p.

 

[demonictoonlink]

At the highest level of play and all gayness included, Tink goes about even with MK.

No joke.

 

[.Marik]

Yoshi goes 50:50 against MetaKnight because of our ChainGrab.

T____T

I ****ing wish.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Every time I hear a Bowser player say the Falco MU is even I have to wonder if the Falco they're playing is playing gay enough.

Bowser isn't grabbing Falco (klawing doesn't count).

Same could be said about Bowser, I guess Falco isnt grabbing Bowser?

 

[zeldspazz]

Same could be said about Bowser, I guess Falco isnt grabbing Bowser?

Im assuming Falco has a far easier time grabbing Bowser because of the pew pew and such. Bowser has a bad grab range too doesnt he? :\

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Bowser has his Klaw Hopping and theoretical non-stop invincibility frames from planking with Up B. >_> <_<

 

[Jupz]

Bowser is underrated IMO. And his grab range is about average I think.

 

[ShadowLink84]

At the highest level of play and all gayness included, Tink goes about even with MK.

No joke.

HAHHAHAHA no.

 

[Kewkky]

At the highest level of play and all gayness included, Tink goes about even with MK.

No joke.

All gayness included? What can TL do about a planking MK? Most he can do is throw a bomb down past the edges, and MK can either jump around that, catch it, or grab the ledge again. He can even glide to the other side if TL gets too close.

 

[LanceStern]

Or MK could spam tornado and shuttle loop. Then plank

 

[da K.I.D.]

You can grab Bowser at least 5 times plus the dair for 50-60% so that doesn't matter. Dair > anything is not mandatory for a kill. It's all about rackin' up dat damage and before you know it King Koopa will be @ 110 or above where you can get a fatality w/ usmash or mainly bair.

WTF?

I dont even think Metaknight dies at 110 to up smash, OR bair from falco... nothing falco has outside of an offstage dair, and a full charge f smash is going to kill bowser under 140. where the hell are you getting your information guy?

 

[Red Arremer]

WTF?

I dont even think Metaknight dies at 110 to up smash, OR bair from falco... nothing falco has outside of an offstage dair, and a full charge f smash is going to kill bowser under 140. where the hell are you getting your information guy?

Didn't you know? Bowser is the lightest character in the game.

 

[Spelt]

and squirtle is ridiculously heavy.

 

[demonictoonlink]

and squirtle is ridiculously adorable.

____
fix'd

 

[Kofu]

WTF?

I dont even think Metaknight dies at 110 to up smash, OR bair from falco... nothing falco has outside of an offstage dair, and a full charge f smash is going to kill bowser under 140. where the hell are you getting your information guy?

He's playing on Green Greens duh

 

[Tidal]

No combo breaker?! Seriously, I don't think there's a better combo breaker in the game than Whirling Fortress.

 

[Kitamerby]

No combo breaker?! Seriously, I don't think there's a better combo breaker in the game than Whirling Fortress.

Luigi Nair?

 

[Planet Mars]

I'm not sure i understand this 'tier thing' so someone please explain it to me.

If my understanding is correct, than it's of the characters which are the easiest to play? Or the best to win with? I'm not sure i'm following it correctly--maybe it's of the characters preferred by players?

If it's the latter, than i can see....but if it's about Character efficiency, me being a Kirby advocate would have to disagree with his placement. Some of the other characters as well are really low on the list, and they dominate over some of the higher characters. For instance, Pikachu can own Falco any day in the hands of an experienced player and Kirby losing to Olimar is a joke. But again, i don't understand this, so please enlighten me.

 

[Nic64]

It's more or less an ordering of how good a character is, according to the SBR. It has nothing to do with ease of use, some low tier characters are extremely easy to use but simply have very little potential. Disagreeing with the list to some degree is very much normal, it is partly opinion based and everyone has their own thoughts on how characters stack up against each other. If everyone agreed then there wouldn't be 13 thousand posts on this subject.

 

[Planet Mars]

Oh...well in that case the list is totally biased, because Kirby can crush Snake any time. Same goes for Pikachu. In fact, Snake is one of the worst characters. I don't see how this list is accurate.

If anything, it seems like a popularity list--i see lots of players with Meta Knight, seeing as he has a fast and easy to use moveset, and he's a nice looking character. However, there are many other characters that are 'good' compared to him. For instance, Pikachu can destroy Meta Knight; same with Lucas. Kirby can beat him as well, so i don't think this list is based on how 'good' a character is over one another. And comparing Bowser to Sonic? Somebody really needs to play the game again. The 2 are nothing alike. If anything, they're opposites

 

[mountain_tiger]

I'm not sure i understand this 'tier thing' so someone please explain it to me.

If my understanding is correct, than it's of the characters which are the easiest to play? Or the best to win with? I'm not sure i'm following it correctly--maybe it's of the characters preferred by players?

If it's the latter, than i can see....but if it's about Character efficiency, me being a Kirby advocate would have to disagree with his placement. Some of the other characters as well are really low on the list, and they dominate over some of the higher characters. For instance, Pikachu can own Falco any day in the hands of an experienced player and Kirby losing to Olimar is a joke. But again, i don't understand this, so please enlighten me.

Put simply, the tier list ranks how effective the characters in Brawl are at the height of the metagame. Basically it's how well all of the characters are likely to do at tourney level. There are many factors to be considered when deciding on a tier, but the main two are tournament results and matchups.

Just because someone is higher than someone else on the tier list doesn't mean that they'll always win the matchup. Let's take Peach vs Olimar as an example. Olimar is considerably higher than Peach, because in general his tools against the cast AS A WHOLE are more effective than Peach's tools. However, when playing Peach vs Olimar, Peach's attributes mean that Olimar's tools are less effective (e.g. floating making his pivot grab less effective, Pikmin destroying moves etc.)

The tier list has nothing to do with how easy or hard someone is to play as. The tier list assumes that the character is being played AT THE MAXIMUM KNOWN LEVEL. Being played more often in tournaments certainly helps, but it's by no means the sole factor.

Did you understand all of that?

 

[Planet Mars]

Put simply, the tier list ranks how effective the characters in Brawl are at the height of the metagame. Basically it's how well all of the characters are likely to do at tourney level. There are many factors to be considered when deciding on a tier, but the main two are tournament results and matchups.

Just because someone is higher than someone else on the tier list doesn't mean that they'll always win the matchup. Let's take Peach vs Olimar as an example. Olimar is considerably higher than Peach, because in general his tools against the cast AS A WHOLE are more effective than Peach's tools. However, when playing Peach vs Olimar, Peach's attributes mean that Olimar's tools are less effective (e.g. floating making his pivot grab less effective, Pikmin destroying moves etc.)

The tier list has nothing to do with how easy or hard someone is to play as. The tier list assumes that the character is being played AT THE MAXIMUM KNOWN LEVEL. Being played more often in tournaments certainly helps, but it's by no means the sole factor.

Did you understand all of that?

Hmm... so i would assume that this list was created by testing CPU characters then? If that's the case then by no means are the characters being played to their full potential in their maxium levels. But your post definitely made sense---i just don't want to see another comment about this tier business when someone is 'judging' a character i play as. It's bogus and shouldn't determine how a character is played.

 

[mountain_tiger]

Hmm... so i would assume that this list was created by testing CPU characters then? If that's the case then by no means are the characters being played to their full potential in their maxium levels. But your post definitely made sense---i just don't want to see another comment about this tier business when someone is 'judging' a character i play as. It's bogus and shouldn't determine how a character is played.

Pro tip: no one is going to take you seriously if you say that sort of stuff.

How CPUs act has bugger all to do with how the tier list is constructed, because CPUs fight like no human ever will. Sure, they can powershield almost everything, but they don't actually think, and are easy to beat.

And no one is saying that you should or shouldn't play a character based on their tier ranking. The tier list only really applies when two players of exactly equal skill fight, and that's highly unlikely.

 

[Tidal]

Oh...well in that case the list is totally biased, because Kirby can crush Snake any time. Same goes for Pikachu. In fact, Snake is one of the worst characters. I don't see how this list is accurate.

I suggest you look at this footage. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pr3qiLq1IWo

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

If you're @ the edge of a stage then bair can kill Bowser at 110. It's simple to just get Bowser offstage and hit w/ bair. If they use Fortress early then edgegrab then smash them when onstage. Repeat.

Fsmash actually will kill King Koopa possibly lower than 110%. (If you're @ the edge, which is where you should be to **** Bowser harder in this matchup.