Ok this right here is really not saying much to why he is this upeer tier character. And you are not really getting into what he can really do or why he should be high on the list.
I'm sure the omniscient Dark.Pch knows what Lucario can do, I don't like going into detail because giving homage to one or two moves sounds really stupid and weak. Oh well, looks like I have to spell it out:
Lucario moveset isn't meant to gawk particularly at a few moves when at the highest level of play. It's meant to be looked at more from a perspective of options and the character as a whole: Lucario has a lot of moves that are just great, but not amazing until you put the character together, and combine aspects of the aura multiplier. ftilt and utilt swat out many aerial games, some even higher than his. AS while not admittedly the best at camping by itself, presents punishment opportunities when thrown uncharged, as the slow speed allows lucario just enough time to follow up on the opponent's reaction to it. Mixing it in with his keep away aerials and b-reversal switchups, lucario has a lot of options to keep the opponent guessing. AS as a killer/punishable are near unrivaled, as it makes AD/roll/spotdodge useless and at high percents doesn't get canceled easily, and has a ton of shieldstun. Kills really well even if staled, can be used with lucario's aerials really well, and can control really well. I could go on, but Lucario has a very competent keep away game that lends itself to a quasi-aggressive beatdown that generates good reward when done properly, and only gets better at high percents. Imo once a lucario gets the first stock and gets one good setup of a hit on an opponent at high percent, you usually lose the game unless he fell for "mindgames" (I hate this word). Lucario has a defensive game that does pretty well vs. shields, something a lot of chars that play "keep away" don't have (DK and ROB, for example). Unlike the previously mentioned characters, Lucario doesn't get pwned when he's breached, Dair is amazing at resetting, especially with multihit/DIable moves. His zoning game only gets harder due to increased shieldstun with his moves, and those transcendent hitboxes do wonders. In short, lucario has a strong offensive and defensive game that makes him able to have a shot against top tiers, and aura helps in so many ways. Peach has some bad MUs, having a borderline soft-counter vs. MK and against chars that are still decently viable isn't good.
Off stage Lucario is in trouble. With good/smart edguarding. he is not that hard to keep out. And a player can force you to recover in a whay they want too. And Just what are these tools that he has that are so good to make him that high, you still have not told me anything. All I heard so far is range. and killing.........ok that'd it. This is why he belongs so high up? Is that right?
Lucario's offstage game is something most people underestimate because they cry themselves senseless about his recovery. Boo-hoo, look at what lucario got for compensation. A slow projectile capable of controlling situations (unless PS'd, if the opponent shields it while onstage, lucario can pretty much make it back safely), and stage spikes edgehoggers, has disjointed, lingering aerials that once again, control space really well. Dair stalling is also a very viable tactic, lucario can merely weave away from most edgeguard attempts, and with it's low endlag (24 frames) can hop over most aerials after they have tried while they suffer endlag and lucario's safe. It's even better if he actually DI'd properly, as recovering form above makes dair really powerful as a tool to avoid juggling/resetting. Then we go to attributes: Lucario is 5th slowest in fall speed in the game, which means he doesn't suffer having to use his recovery as often as other chars. He has a good momentum canceling move that on some stages allows him to live until 170% on average, and he has a really high second jump. If lucario is a ******, it's easy to see the misconception that he's junk offstage, but he's actually good in everything except for his recovery.
tl;dr Uh, no they can't, unless you have some magic way of making lucario fall like a rock and lose his second jump.
Ok now you just talking BS. First off, tpical play style is Peach relying on floating thinking that is the answer to all her problems. Peach Really does not need to be floating so much and it is not her prime thing. I have been playing her and hardly float these days. Ask people who see me in tournies, I am hardly floating these stays and still hacking it. Goes to show you when people use thier heads, they realize and understand stuff. And I limit my floating usage and placing fine in tournaments. So lets not talk this junk.
This was the part I was right and wrong about. What you're describing isn't special/unique to Peach, nor is it best utilized by her. Anyone with eyes can see that spacing is nothing big, I think honestly you're taking Peach way out of proportion with what's called "bait n' punish". Very simple concept really.
Most of the time if I am floating, it is to recover. And even so, I have my F-B and toad to get some extra recover distance. And Peach has many ways to approach. It does not have to be the typical floating or glide tossing. Brush up on my character before you spit stuff like this at me.
This was an interesting remark. I can't tell if you get steamed easily, but it sounds like you are condescending at me for looking at a concept the wrong way. This my good sir is not how to play the debate game. I could say the exact same thing about your view of my character. For example, most people say lucario's kill game lacks ability to land because of how slow it is. If you've ever seen a lucario game, they clearly can kill pretty reliably. If Lucario was truly "one dimensional", this wouldn't be the case, would it? No, because lucario has a large pool of options, and doesn't use one option heavily. Lots of lucario's options are also viable in many situations. He even has a decent setup for a few of his kill moves. You of all people should know, considering how differently lucario has to play the Peach MU, since he can't use typical fair strings. Does that mean he gets ***** by how basic it is? No, he uses other methods and still manages to make it if anything in his favor. "Brush up on my more viable and better repped character before you spit stuff like this at me", my arrogant friend. At least I'm not widely regarded as flamingly narrow minded/bigoted.
Again, not telling me anything expect BS on my character. You can't even defend yours on why he belongs so high up there. I'm not seeing it. Killing and range. And low cool down time on air attacks. Thats all I got.
I mentioned unique traits/tools in the brief time I had, there's really no point in illustrating common tools/MU's, this isn't a MU thread lol. Lucario has more solid tools that enable slightly better edges on the other higher members, Peach doesn't.
Like what? Cause that is straight BS.
I'll take it back, I'm doubting Pit certainly better than Peach. But both have far more flexible tools that hold up by themselves/with more scenarios. This is really overall up to opinion, so to clarify my point is a little lulzy.
Also, Please don't you dare say Lucario and Pit have more switch ups than Peach, really with a simple character as lucario. Don't dare come to me with this one dude. Cause you still failed to tell me what makes this dude so up there on the list. And If that was the case, match up for Peach would not be like this:
35:65 MK (Disadvantage)
40:60 Marth (Disadvantage)
45-55 Snake (Disadvantage)Don't agree with this one, but what the hey, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt
45-55 G&W (Disadvantage)
50-50 DDD (Even)
60-40 Wario (Advantage)
50-50/45-55 Falco (Disadvantage/even)
60-40 Diddy (Advantage)
50-50 Pikachu (Even)
50-50 Kirby (Even)
60-40 Olimar (Advantage)
60-40 IC (Advantage)
Hey look I can spin MU ratios and leave out two solid disadvantageous MU ratios too, wow Peach is amazing.
I was nice, so I didn't include these, even though I agree with a lot of other Peaches that these are disadvantageous:
50-50/45:55 TL (Disadvantage/even)
50-50/45:55 Lucario (Disadvantage/even)
Ya very impressive, being soft countered and having biased MU ratios, including obviously disadvantaged ones screened.
You don't know much about Peach, and I can assume the same for luigi. You speak BS about my character and fail to defend yours as to why he belongs so high up and how he has alot to him that makes him so versitale. You pretty much proff my point. Not even a person who plays/Mains lucario can even explain this to me and defend them.
I do know a thing or two about Luigi, I have a different take on what is important, it's difficult to explain.
Peach I'll admit I don't main her (OMG I SHUD DIE I IZ SINNAR), but I have played against Peaches and watched them, particularly Praxis'. While I admittedly got owned by Praxis, I had no clue about the MU, which inspired me to study it up. To my dismay, I felt somewhat cheated on how I lost, I really lost my touch from having "Brawl Withdrawal". Since then, I think Peach is underrated, but you bring up really stupid arguments that could apply to nearly everyone, most of them about "mentalities", and "OMG I KEEP SLOWLY GIVING PEACH CLIMB ON THE TIER LIST I EVEN INITIALLY THOUGHT SHE WAS INCOMPARABLE TO ONE CHAR AND NAO THIIIIIIIIIIS". Comparing little compartments of "better jab game" and such I think is only to further your point, placement relies on how the character fits as a whole in design.
