The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v3.0

[zeldspazz]

What do you think her biggest problem is?

 

[CaliburChamp]

Wait... so out of all things that are making Zelda bad, you pick exactly the thing that's a common misinformation (Zelda's recovery being predictable)?

lmao.

I'm comparing this current tier list...

Condensed Version
S: Meta Knight, Snake, Wario, Falco, Diddy Kong, King Dedede
A: Marth, Mr. Game & Watch, Pikachu, Olimar, Ice Climbers, R.O.B., Kirby
B: Lucario, Zero Suit Samus, Toon Link, Pit, Donkey Kong
C: Peach, Luigi, Fox, Wolf, Sonic, Sheik
D: Bowser, Zelda, Pokémon Trainer, Ike
E: Lucas, Mario, Ness, Yoshi, Samus
F: Jigglypuff, Captain Falcon, Link, Ganondorf

To my own tier list...

C Tier (Middle-High Tier) Half way there.
Donkey Kong 7.9
Luigi 7.7
Squirtle 7.6
Fox 7.4
Wolf 7.2
Peach 7.1
Zelda/Shiek (Used as both) 7.0

D (Middle-Low Tier) Half way there.
Shiek 6.8
Ness 6.7
Lucas 6.6
Sonic 6.4
Bowser 6.3
Charizard 6.2
Pokemon Trainer 6.2 (as an average)

E Tier (Low Tier) At the low part of the mountain.
Yoshi 5.9
Zelda 5.8
Ike 5.7
Mario 5.5
Samus 5.2
Ivysaur 5.0

F Tier (Bottom Tier) On ground level.
Jigglypuff 4.9
Captain Falcon 4.8
Link 4.6
Ganondorf 4.4
Popo 4.0
Nana 4.0

Zelda fell the most(4 spots down), and Ness rose the most. (5 spots up)

 

[Palpi]

Her average, either slow or low range ground game and her inability to rack damage in the air.

Her n-air hit trades with every aerial but only does like 2-4% (i forget) if it does trade.

 

[mountain_tiger]

Zelda would be so much better if she actually had a good fair...
And what gm jack says. She has an amazing defensive game, the problem is she's usually forced to go offensive :\ But, I still think she isnt completely usless or lowest tier, I mean she does have pros and her top/high tier matchups arent devastating minus MK and Snake...And you got Sheik for Mk and Snake

Er... you forgot Olimar. And Mr. Game and Watch. And Wario. And Falco...

Besides, MK and Snake are winnable for Sheik. Ice Climbers and Olimar are worse for her.

@Tiger: Bowsers has more grab release options and better matchups I think (other than DDD) He's also faster I think, fair and upb OoS is too good.

That's true. Bowser is probably better overall. Though Zelda does have things like true combos that Bowser doesn't...

 

[Jim Morrison]

Pit is overrated. He should go in C tier, he hasn't been standing out or anything at all.

 

[Red Arremer]

What do you think her biggest problem is?

She's in the same boat as Bowser.

Both are defensive characters with garbage projectiles and forced to approach, which they simply don't have the tools to.

Zelda's moves are telegraphed and very hard to land, or have a lack of range if they'd actually be decent (DSmash). She also has multi-hit moves in her other Smashes which allow the opponent to DI out of it at times. Her KO setups are terrible. Her reflector is terrible. Her mobility is terrible. Her air game is terrible. Her grab game is literally non-existant because her grab is slow and low-ranged and her throws are pretty mediocre. Oh, and she's light, never a good aspect.

I'm not saying she's a good character, mind you. She is a very bad character, and she certainly is on the brink to Low Tier, but she's definitely not Bottom Tier, simply for the fact that the aspects she HAS going for her (awesome damage and extremely good at KOing if she can hit with her moves, decent recovery) make her better than the Bottom Tier characters.

 

[CaliburChamp]

What do you think her biggest problem is?

It's Zelda's lack of speed. Zelda is alot better on wifi though, some people think she can do just as well online as offline, but thats not the case. Offline, Zelda side b is easier to dodge and shield, and she'll have a hard time with the fast characters. This tier list is talking about for offline with no lag involved.

 

[zeldspazz]

Er... you forgot Olimar. And Mr. Game and Watch. And Wario. And Falco...

Besides, MK and Snake are winnable for Sheik. Ice Climbers and Olimar are worse for her.



That's true. Bowser is probably better overall. Though Zelda does have things like true combos that Bowser doesn't...

Mr. Game and Watch shouldnt be high tier imo...Wario and Flaco are winnable. Olimar is hard yes, but honestly they are not one of the big popular high/top tiers. She is advantaged against DDD and Iceclimbers, goes about even with Pika, Kirby, ROB, and is 40:60 against Wario, Falco, Diddy. Those really arent that horrible of matchups. They are not high tier, or even mid tier matchups, but certianly not bottom tier matchups...just put Sheik into the equation where she can cover MK, Snake, Mr. Game and Watch, and Marth to an extent and you've got a pretty darn good character there.

 

[Red Arremer]

Sheilda is A tier.

 

[zeldspazz]

Sheilda is A tier.

Thank you

It's Zelda's lack of speed. Zelda is alot better on wifi though, some people think she can do just as well online as offline, but thats not the case. Offline, Zelda side b is easier to dodge and shield, and she'll have a hard time with the fast characters. This tier list is talking about for offline with no lag involved.

I wasnt talking about online vs. offline. Zelda is more polarized on wifi anyway, a buff in her ground game and major nerf in her air game. Her problem isnt really her speed either (DDD and DK both above her) imo....and Dins is bad but also not whats keeping her down. I think its her inability to stay on the defensive too long, where she truley shines, and her bad aerial game.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

To me, Zelda is just a character with below average -everything.- She does nothing well. Nothing about her particularly sucks, except that everything is just kind of bad. So I guess that sucks.

...Wait, what?

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Hey Oni, since you are comparing Zelda and Bowser, I might as well ask what do you think about Ike? (mainly because in my tier list I see them as very interchangeable in positions)

 

[Palpi]

Zelda is much worse than bowser imo.

 

[zeldspazz]

To me, Zelda is just a character with below average -everything.- She does nothing well. Nothing about her particularly sucks, except that everything is just kind of bad. So I guess that sucks.

...Wait, what?

Its funny I was just thinking something like that...She like not the worst of anything in particular, but she seems like everything is just...not considered "good" I think her ground game and defensive game is great though. And she's got excellent power. But I mean her speed, aerials, damage racking, heigh to weight ratio, recovery, projectile, and reflector are all not the worst just....not good. She'll stay low tier, obviously, but I dont think she deserves any lower than low D tier

@Palpi: I agree. Bowser is a solid mid tier imo

 

[Red Arremer]

Hey Oni, since you are comparing Zelda and Bowser, I might as well ask what do you think about Ike? (mainly because in my tier list I see them as very interchangeable in positions)

Eh, he's different from the two.
I do think he has a similar position as Bowser and Zelda (hence all 3 should stay D Tier). He has some very good things about him, like his range and his jablock and whatnot, but he does have mediocre recovery and is... well... very slow. Which is horrible for him. He has like... almost no really quick and abusable move like Dedede has his BAir or grabs, and that throws him down quite a lot.

Zelda is much worse than bowser imo.

Your opinion is flawed. They're about the same.

 

[Palpi]

My opinion is flawed?

I don't think bowser is a solid mid-tier but I think he's better than Zelda.

In your opinion they are about the same. You are so **** arrogant.

 

[Red Arremer]

Yes. Bowser is definitely not much better than Zelda. If you think that, you know nothing about either of the 2 characters.

 

[zeldspazz]

*knows nothing of Bowser*

I just lurk the Bowser boards cus Mr. Eh is there ^_^

 

[mountain_tiger]

To me, Zelda is just a character with below average -everything.- She does nothing well. Nothing about her particularly sucks, except that everything is just kind of bad. So I guess that sucks.

...Wait, what?

You're kidding, right? Zelda is probably one of the most extreme characters in the game. In situations where she sucks, she REALLY sucks, and the few strengths that she has, she does incredibly well.

For a start, she has over 9000 different kill options at her disposal, includign a fairly reliable set-up into a number of them (i.e. DTilt). As well as that, if she doesn't get forced to approach, the match is far easier because of her amazing defensive game. Seriously, good luck trying to approach a good Zelda. She has USmash to protect herself from above, whilst jab, DTilt and FSmash are all safe onblock due to decent range and low cooldown lag., and Nayru's as a pseudo counterattack.

The problem is, she gets screwed over whenever she needs to approach, which is most of the time unfortunately. Fair and Bair are extremely unreliable, Nair is alright unless it trades hits, in which case it sucks, Dair is flat out terrible against grounded opponents and Uair won't hit grounded opponents. She has several other big flaws, including an easy to gimp recovery and a poor grab game, but this is the worst one IMO.

All in all, Zelda is a character with two or three massive strengths, and several equally massive weaknesses. However, she's definitely not bottom tier, because she does have a handful of very good moves (e.g. DSmash, USmash, DTilt), and better than a good deal of people below her currently.

Oh, and regarding Zelda compared to Bowser, IMO Bowser is marginally better, but not hugely so. 2-3 positions at most.

 

[Palpi]

I shouldn't have used "much worse than bowser" but worse than bowser indeed.

 

[Red Arremer]

You are so **** arrogant.

Nah. Just giving you some of your own medicine.

 

[ShadowLink84]

It's Zelda's lack of speed. Zelda is alot better on wifi though, some people think she can do just as well online as offline, but thats not the case. Offline, Zelda side b is easier to dodge and shield, and she'll have a hard time with the fast characters. This tier list is talking about for offline with no lag involved.

Why the hell would you even mention online?
Ugh forget it, *ignores*

 

[zeldspazz]

@Tiger: Uair can actually hit grounded opponents if they are tall enough ^_^ So hard to do though its not even worth it.

And whoever said (I forget) that Zelda has no KO setups, Dtilt is her best move and it sets up more than half of them when the opponent trips. And it trips more at higher percentages. Also, jab is so underrated. I love that move

 

[da K.I.D.]

I think Zelda is really bad, like she should be around where yoshi is on the tier list.

she just seems to be so easily camped and waited out, so many characters just make it so hard for her to like... do anything.

 

[Red Arremer]

And whoever said (I forget) that Zelda has no KO setups, Dtilt is her best move and it sets up more than half of them when the opponent trips. And it trips more at higher percentages. Also, jab is so underrated. I love that move

I know Jab.
And I know DTilt, too.

I didn't say she had no KO setups, I said that her KO setups are terrible because hard to pull off.

 

[zeldspazz]

I know Jab.
And I know DTilt, too.

I didn't say she had no KO setups, I said that her KO setups are terrible because hard to pull off.

I fail to see how dtilt is hard to pull off :\ but whatever, you're more knowledgeable than I am

 

[Palpi]

I fail to see how dtilt is hard to pull off :\ but whatever, you're more knowledgeable than I am

Forge your own opinions, his purple name decieves you.

Though I am not saying I disagree with him. D-tilt is fairly short range.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I fail to see how dtilt is hard to pull off :\ but whatever, you're more knowledgeable than I am

Because of the range, Zelda needs to get really far inside in order to actually hit with it, and use it as a set-up.

It's a great move, don't get me wrong, but it could have been a great deal better if it had range.

Forge your own opinions, his purple name decieves you.

Though I am not saying I disagree with him. D-tilt is fairly short range.

Of course, but Oni (almost said spadefox there, lol) is quite intelligent, so even when I disagree with him, his points are worth taking into consideration because he's got a good grasp on the metagame.


While it's important to form your own opinion, you must consider the points of intelligent people in the community because if you can't defend against their points then you're either wrong, or have a weak grasp of the metagame.

 

[Inferno3044]

I think Bowser might be a bit better. I think they are both low tier though.

 

[zeldspazz]

I have my own opinion, but I respect his a great deal because he has proven to me that he is one of the more knowledgeable people who posts here

 

[Palpi]

He said something that was the complete opposite of what you thought and you instantly changed your position just because he said so.

 

[zeldspazz]

On what? I still believe dtilt isnt hard to pull off. I never said I completely changed my position :\

 

[Palpi]

But it seemed like you gave up just because he disagreed with you. "but whatever, you're more knowledgable than I am" =/

OH **** 1337 POSTS

 

[zeldspazz]

Oh, well no, I dont agree
New conversation?

Nvm, Im gonna go brawl, bbl

 

[Loota]

Random Tiers ftw!

...I beg for approval D= I posted this in an another SSBB site but no answers were given. I just want to know if I'm even in the right track.

S Tier
Meta Knight
Snake
Diddy
Wario
Falco
Dedede

A Tier
Marth
Pikachu
Mr. Game & Watch
Ice Climbers
Olimar
Zero Suit Samus
R.O.B.
Lucario

B Tier
Kirby
Toon Link
Donkey Kong
Peach
Shiek
Pit

C Tier
Fox
Wolf
Luigi
Pokemon Trainer
Sonic

D Tier
Bowser
Ike
Ness
Zelda

E Tier
Lucas
Mario
Yoshi
Link
Samus
Falcon
Jigglypuff

F Tier

G Tier aka Ganon Tier aka Godly Tier aka The Chosen One Tier
Ganondorf

I'm not so sure about the lower tiers but they can't be that wrong...? I'm still ready to accept some "epic fail" replys.

EDIT: Lol, someone might have noticed that I failed with the character pictures <_> Fix'd.

 

[adumbrodeus]

On what? I still believe dtilt isnt hard to pull off. I never said I completely changed my position :\

Ok, then if you disagree, disagree. Explain why you disagree, and present evidence to back that conclusion up. If you're right, and you understand the metagame well enough it'll show. If you're wrong, when you're proven wrong (and here's where you gotta establish exactly what you think makes you right mentally in terms of concrete evidence), you'll come away with a better understanding of the metagame.


if you think it'll make you look silly, then take it to the PMs.


Everyone started out with inane questions like, "how should I use Sheik's up-throw" (that was mine), but with time and practice with analysis your opinions will get better.

 

[Melomaniacal]

Isn't the quality of an opinion an opinion? Can you prove or disprove opinions on quality?

*Head asplode*

 

[adumbrodeus]

Isn't the quality of an opinion an opinion? Can you prove or disprove opinions on quality?

*Head asplode*

Many opinions relie on empirical facts to substantiate them, when they do they become falsifiable.


When you say a move is "good", you're saying that it has a combination of attributes that make a move useful in the context of this game, and if it doesn't have those, it's not good.

"I like roses" doesn't require on any factual evidence implicitly, therefore it cannot be falsified.

All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Lil by lil people are starting to realize where Peach belongs on the tier list in here.

 

[Palpi]

that was random