The Official BBR Tier List v4 -> Sonic's HA Stall is NOT beaten by spot dodge!!!!!!!!

[GTZ]

whole lot of assumption in this thread going on... the subject has been lost...

 

[Browny]

ill explain to you then D3... not a troll :/

subject is HA under the stage should be legal btw

 

[Ripple]

ill explain to you then D3... not a troll :/

subject is HA under the stage should be legal btw

how many characters can beat it? less than 12?

ban it

more than 12?

legal

 

[da K.I.D.]

What is your definition of 'beating it'

Because by my definition, Every character in the game minus 2 or so can beat it.

 

[StarLight]

good for you, but how was that last post @ me pertinent to the subject covered in this thread?

I really just felt like pointing it out.

But I guess you could think of my previous post as an extension of the humorous hypocrisy of the brownyhating post. You'd probably be reading into it too much though.

 

[Ripple]

What is your definition of 'beating it'

Because by my definition, Every character in the game minus 2 or so can beat it.

going under the stage and actually being able to hit sonic without suiciding. and depending on whether sonic is close to you or not that ranges from. 7-14 characters

 

[Sharky]

I'm not fully familiar with the tactic I'll admit, but couldn't you just go to the ledge and force sonic to HA towards the side of the stage?

 

[Browny]

omg this wasnt meant to happen rofl. keep it to the 3.1 ruleset and banning is illegitimate thread guys, its been debated VERY heavily in there lol

 

[Ripple]

omg this wasnt meant to happen rofl. keep it to the 3.1 ruleset and banning is illegitimate thread guys, its been debated VERY heavily in there lol

then don't start the topic and expect everyone to ignore you.

 

[Dark 3nergy]

LMAFO@ browny's PM

its like reading poetry and yet at the same time getting insulted for it

i love you so much

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

how many characters can beat it? less than 12?

ban it

more than 12?

legal

Uh, everyone can beat it. All you have to do is jump and air dodge, I think?

 

[milesg2g]

lolwut?

So confused ;_;

 

[Ripple]

Uh, everyone can beat it. All you have to do is jump and air dodge, I think?

actually not true. when sonic is out of his targeting area he slams himself into the stage.

 

[GTZ]

lol I guess you're right

 

[Raziek]

Yeah, anyone who still thinks you can airdodge or out-range it is still GRAVELY mis-informed. If he does it right he bounces off the bottom of the stage regardless of your actions.

 

[Browny]

I wish this topic got interest from this many people the 50+ times its been brought up in the three ruleset + banning threads here

for the record guys, its been establised that HA under the stage is LEGAL. Doing so with the deliberate intention of a time out is not though.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I wish this topic got interest from this many people the 50+ times its been brought up in the three ruleset + banning threads here

for the record guys, its been establised that HA under the stage is LEGAL. Doing so with the deliberate intention of a time out is not though.

It's impossible to prove intent without a trial.

 

[Browny]

such is the endless nature of the debate :/

 

[Poltergust]

Which is why we have referees.

Or, at least, we should have referees.

 

[da K.I.D.]

I'm not fully familiar with the tactic I'll admit, but couldn't you just go to the ledge and force sonic to HA towards the side of the stage?

Ill explain to you in full how it works on saturday if youre going to the tourney

Yeah, anyone who still thinks you can airdodge or out-range it is still GRAVELY mis-informed. If he does it right he bounces off the bottom of the stage regardless of your actions.

i think that might be one of the most gravely misunderstood aspects of the game on this entire sight. I dont know how that rumor got spread around but it got EVERYWHERE.

I wish this topic got interest from this many people the 50+ times its been brought up in the three ruleset + banning threads here

for the record guys, its been establised that HA under the stage is LEGAL. Doing so with the deliberate intention of a time out is not though.

i might intentionally camp a bit with this at my tourney this weekend.

 

[GTZ]

I dont camp or plank or any of that mumbo jumbo

 

[Justblaze647]

2) You're being a HUGE troll, and people who prove themselves to be harmful trolls, or trolls bent on literally the worst intentions to a group of people, are banned immediately. This could be racism, nonstop flaming (a la Europe vs America), purposely making others' lives difficult for personal enjoyment

Hmmm

What about that Doctor Mario Guy?

None of this applies to him obviously. Would some BBR member/Site Admin. mind telling me why?

 

[GTZ]

Im with you on that one blaze

 

[Espy Rose]

Browny, where was it established as legal? Is there a source?

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

There's nothing in the BBR Ruleset about it being banned
Or about it being legal actually
Nothing about it in the rules = Automatically Legal since there's nothing to say it isn't legal

Homing Attack stall is still pretty random and only really a problem on FD and Lylat Cruise

 

[Spelt]

homing attack stall is stalling, therefore banned.

I can't believe i actually have to point this out.

 

[Espy Rose]

But it's not making the game unplayable like stalling defines. It's literally "Running away from an opponent to reach a better position". The homing attack abuse is NOT stalling. Calling it the "homing attack stall" is inaccurate.

It has vulnerable points that can be abused. It's less like MK's planking, and more like ROB/G&W/Pit's ledge stalling. It's annoying, but given the right character, it's manageable.

 

[Spelt]

except all characters can deal with pit/g&w/rob planking, you just need to be smart about it.

 

[Z'zgashi]

lol guys, even ganon can punish HA if they over abuse it xD

FYI: if they HA under the stage, you can slowly walk to the ledge while they're underneath to lead them back to the edge.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

FYI: if they HA under the stage, you can slowly walk to the ledge while they're underneath to lead them back to the edge.

Nope. If Sonic hits the underside of the stage first, he won't lock onto them, even if they're standing right next to him

Someone ought to make a topic about this, lots of people don't seem to know the ins and outs of Homing Attack 'stall'

 

[Z'zgashi]

He falls at a slight angle afterwards though

 

[demonictoonlink]

except many characters can deal with pit/g&w/rob planking, you just need to be smart about it.

Much better.

 

[da K.I.D.]

homing attack stall is stalling, therefore banned.

I can't believe i actually have to point this out.

Are you saying that its banned because the word stall is in the name of the move?

Does that mean shine stalling with fox is banned too?

I hope youre not saying that, cus that would make you ignorant.

 

[-RedX-]

I thought Sonic Homing Attack Stall is beaten by just spotdodging.

 

[Nestec]

What is your definition of 'beating it'

Because by my definition, Every character in the game minus 2 or so can beat it.

Michael Jackson can beat it.

LOLOLOLOL

 

[TP]

I thought Sonic Homing Attack Stall is beaten by just spotdodging.

It can... unless they are right under the stage, touching the bottom of the stage. Then it can't.

 

[Spelt]

Much better.

Steal the ledge and invincible aerial them, pretty sure even ganon can do that.
and unlike MK, none of those characters have dimensional cape to put them back on stage safely.
this is especially volatile against pit, because if he tries to up b back on the ledge when you steal it, he's pretty much dead.

Are you saying that its banned because the word stall is in the name of the move?

Does that mean shine stalling with fox is banned too?

I hope youre not saying that, cus that would make you ignorant.

lolno, they're completely different situations.
sonic can HA stall forever, and is very hard (very near impossible if he's lucky enough to stay in the middle of the stage during the whole thing) to combat.
i can only think of a couple characters who would be willing to go under the stage to try and hit sonic, and even then it's basically just a kamikaze attempt.

 

[Espy Rose]

Spelt, if your character has a projectile, or multiple jumps, then there's plenty of opportunities to stop it.

Sonic's HA abuse is in the same realm of "too bad, you're screwed" as Fox vs. Pikachu, Dedede vs. Donkey Kong, or any other of those character match up specific traits.

Plenty of characters can deal with Sonic's HA abuse.
And because of that, Sonic's HA cannot, indeed, stall forever. Nor is it difficult to fight at all.

Again, using HA under the level is NOT stalling, since it's easily counter-able.
It's clearly running to a better position vs. another character. IE: Not stalling.

=====

Also, I'm still appalled that people STILL, to this day, after SEVERAL explanations, don't understand Sonic's HA.

 

[Spelt]

Spelt, if your character has a projectile, or multiple jumps, then there's plenty of opportunities to stop it.

can sheik needles stop it?
what about mario fireballs? or turnips/bananas?
most projectiles don't come close to being able to beat it.
pikachu, pit, lucas/ness, rob ... maybe falco... probably missing a couple more.

and then multiple jumps, so jigglypuff, kirby, meta knight, pit. maybe dedede (probably not).

so 9-10 characters? out of almost 40? and even then jumping over to him with a multi-jumper could easily end up negatively for you.

Sonic's HA abuse is in the same realm of "too bad, you're screwed" as Fox vs. Pikachu, Dedede vs. Donkey Kong, or any other of those character match up specific traits.

Except they take off a stock, and anything more than that the BBR has already classified as stalling (doing infinites above 300%). Sonic can and will continue to stall under the stage infinitely against anyone who can't deal with it. essentially avoiding any and all combat, if that's not stalling than there are some serious double standards at work here.

Plenty of characters can deal with Sonic's HA abuse.
And because of that, Sonic's HA cannot, indeed, stall forever. Nor is it difficult to fight at all.

Again, using HA under the level is NOT stalling, since it's easily counter-able.
It's clearly running to a better position vs. another character. IE: Not stalling.

read above.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Bear in mind that Sonic needs to gain the lead for this to actually work

From first thoughts, characters that can deal with Homing Attack under a stage like FD successfully without killing themselves are:

MK
Snake
Falco
Pikachu (?)
Lucario (?)
Pit (?)
Toon Link (?)
Kirby
ROB
Peach (?)
Luigi (?)
Wolf (?)
Sonic (?)
Ness
Lucas
Samus (?)
Jigglypuff

Thats 17 characters, about half of which I'm certain could take care of it but half of which I'm unsure about. Bear in mind this talking about dealing with it safely i.e. without risking certain death

Which leaves:
Diddy
IC's
Marth
Wario
DeDeDe
Olimar
G&W
ZSS
DK
Fox
Shiek
PT
Bowser
Ike
Yoshi
Mario
Captain Falcon
Zelda
Link
Ganondorf


This is only under a stage like FD or Lylat Cruise which has edges which help specifically guard Sonic being stuck underneath the stage

Maybe I'm wrong but from looking at the 2nd list, I'm not sure how on earth I'd safely take care of a Sonic Homing Attacking under a stage like FD or Lylat Cruise. Am I missing something?

@Sonic mains - are you sure that you can get under stages like FD and Lylat in a safe position without using your 2nd jump? I haven't yet managed it. Under stages like SV and BF are fine but they are pretty bad stages for Homing Attack 'stall'


Oh and my stance on it - I don't really care because its a pretty poor form of stalling and is only a problem on 2 stages. Plus, I've used it before to recover with Sonic when I've accidently screwed up my recovery without the intention of stalling

The direciton Sonic goes in is seemingly random but if you get to certain aprt of a stage from what I remember its fairly easy to manipulate Sonic to get back up to the ledge