The Official BBR Tier List v4 -> Sonic's HA Stall is NOT beaten by spot dodge!!!!!!!!

[DanGR]

Ignoring his bad match-ups he's a top/high quality character, absolutely. Fox is awesome.

Link is pretty amazing too, if you ignore all his bad qualities. I think we should reconsider our stance on him, as a community. Link for mid tier.

...

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Link is pretty amazing too, if you ignore all his bad qualities.

Fox's bad match-ups aren't a result of bad qualities, they are a result of incidental poorly-tested mechanics that interact badly together. His fast falling is not "bad" on it's own, it just doesn't play well with a few other random things that weren't tested well. That's very fundamentally different, even in practice.

Incidentally I support Link as top of low tier. =)

 

[ShadowLink84]

Fox's bad match-ups aren't a result of bad qualities, they are a result of incidental poorly-tested mechanics that interact badly together. His fast falling is not "bad" on it's own, it just doesn't play well with a few other random things that weren't tested well. That's very fundamentally different, even in practice.

...
Nothing is ever bad on its own.
Ganon's slow attack speed is not bad on its own, but when you take into account everything else, it becomes bad.
Same for Fox's falling speed.

*shakes fist at the furries*

 

[Z'zgashi]

...furries...

You say that like it's a bad thing

And i feel link is still bottom 5, but not the second worst

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

...
Nothing is ever bad on its own.
Ganon's slow attack speed is not bad on its own, but when you take into account everything else, it becomes bad.
Same for Fox's falling speed.

*shakes fist at the furries*

This is wrong. Slow attack speed is -always- bad unless you have fast moves to mix in between them (like Ike, for instance). Link's low-distance up+b is never a good thing. It would be better if it covered more distance. A higher longer recovery is good, a low-distance recovery is bad. There are, believe it or not, absolutes in this context. Now yes, relative to how other characters punish these bad qualities, you have a point, but if Link's up+b went a longer distance, it would be easier to recover from longer distances, hence better.

Fox's fast fall speed is not an absolute in this sense. It's variable unless you're off-stage, in which falling faster can be bad (Fox can slow his fall speed with reflector though). There is no element of Brawl outside of character-specific abuse that rewards or punishes faster fall-speed.

 

[B!squick]

Furries are slowly taking over 4chan.

:O

Also, the tier list has lost any and all meaning to me after looking at the BBR discussion for Bowser. *sad face*

 

[Z'zgashi]

*shakes fist at the furries*

Furries are slowly taking over 4chan.

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

I like your avatar Z :'D

Mine's better.

Fast-fall speed helps with reactions, maybe your best option is ground related but you're currently in the air.

It's also helps Falco's spammy goodness. *pew* *pew* *pew*

 

[B!squick]

No. Now e621 going down. That's maddening.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Mine's better.

Fast-fall speed helps with reactions, maybe your best option is ground related but you're currently in the air.

It's also helps Falco's spammy goodness. *pew* *pew* *pew*

Donut Drake is pretty cool, but i like mine better :D

And imo, faster falling is better depending on how the character is played and who you're against

 

[Purple]

...
Nothing is ever bad on its own.
Ganon's slow attack speed is not bad on its own, but when you take into account everything else, it becomes bad.
Same for Fox's falling speed.

I agree with this.

*shakes fist at the furries*

This makes me though.

Link is pretty amazing too, if you ignore all his bad qualities. I think we should reconsider our stance on him, as a community. Link for mid tier.

...

Nah, fox really doesn't have that many bad matchups in comparison :|

This is wrong. Slow attack speed is -always- bad unless you have fast moves to mix in between them (like Ike, for instance). Link's low-distance up+b is never a good thing.

The funny thing is, slow attack speed isn't exactly bad. I mean, is ike's f-tilt is slow as well (at least it looks so), a lot of his moves are slow, however they are good for punishing air dodges and such ;' o.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

It's bad when your whole move set is slow, though. If your whole moveset is basically just for punishing airdodges that's not great.

 

[Z'zgashi]

If only they didn't screw up his fair :/

 

[Poltergust]

Uh... I'm pretty sure that f-air is one of Ike's better moves.

 

[Purple]

we're talking about ganon poltergust

 

[Poltergust]

...

*ahem*

Sorry, I just assumed that we were talking about Ike now due to a quote in your previous post. ._.

 

[smashkng]

Ganon's Uair isn't slow at all it comes out on frame 6 and ends on like frame 35 and has both great horizontal and vertical range, though it has 22 frames landing lag. I dunno if it does outrange DK's Bair. However, it's very difficult to land on grounded characters especially small ones (though depending on the spacing it can hit very tall characters like DK from a buffered one). It's also one of the reasons of why Ganon is so good at gimping despite his horrible recovery, and is decent at preventing gimps when he's high enough to not suicide from using it.

Though then, IMO his moveset isn't "super slow", it's that his "fast" moves are so slow. Like having an 8 frame jab that ends on like frame 30.

 

[ShadowLink84]

This makes me though.

*gets out scissors*

 

[Espy Rose]

No. Now e621 going down. That's maddening.

Wait...what?

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Lol
Clearly, upon seeing the discussion had turned to furries, Espy felt safe to bring out his sig
Nice

I honestly think Ganondorf needs to go into a tier of his own. Zelda is pretty trash but I don't think she's in the same tire heap (cwhatididthar) as Ganon or anyone else for that matter
But then could argue you have another pointless tier...

 

[Z'zgashi]

Metaknight is in his own tier because he's the best at pretty much everything in the game. Ganon isn't in his own tier because he isn't the worst at everything, he's better than a few characters in multiple categories. For example, his ground game is better than jiggs, his recovery is better than link, and his gimping ability it better than bowser. I still think he's the worst, but he's not bad enought to be in his own tier imo.

 

[DMG]

Lol. e621.

Ohhhh man furries are gonna rage at that one.

Also HOW do you view what "rank" you are concerning post count? Im talking for Smashboards as a whole, not just any particular thread.

 

[Purple]

I don't even go to e621 personally. :-x

Go to user cp, under your group memberships it should show your rank.

 

[DMG]

where?

I went there, where will it say that?

And yes you went to e621. Everyone has.

 

[Kitamerby]

Also, slow attack speed below reaction time is almost always a bad thing. One might say they can be used for mix-ups, but if you have an attack that does the same thing but is a few frames faster, you could just delay it and have the same effect...

 

[Kofu]

Member List > Search > Advanced Search > Options > Search "By Post Count" > Order "Descending"

There you go.

 

[DMG]

It's Friday in Japan

Good enough.

No seriously though, where can I find my post ranking? I looked under group memberships, all I saw was my different memberships and their titles. Smash Hero, BBR member, Smash Researcher, etc. Then the option to leave them, or join new ones.

SEE I KNEW IT AHA! Oh well one sec brb

 

[Nefarious B]

Having large active frames in the move is a better quality than just being out right slow. Like DDD's bair or MK's nair, they're both good because they last a while and can hit through dodges, but they end quickly after the actual hitbox goes away.

 

[DMG]

Oh cool. I'm 82nd I believe. Definitely would be higher if they counted all the posts from before the regional thread splits where posts were not counted.

 

[Teh Future]

DMG's tier list:

S:
























































































Unviable:

 

[DMG]

More like Anyone DK and below is unviable, and frankly it rings true.

Troll Toll be paid nao

 

[Poltergust]

I think match-ups are better at determining viability than placement on the tier list. I consider characters like Fox and DK to be less viable than people like Yoshi and... Peach? (I dunno, I'm just guessing here)

I believe that anyone with match-ups that are 30:70 or worse are unviable. DK and Fox (among other characters) have those match-ups.

OK, maybe not 30:70, but whatever the match-up ratio is to be considered unwinnable.

 

[Ripple]

DK is semi viable since his unwinable match up is thanks to a CP only character

 

[Snakeee]

ZSS is .....well she's definitely viable probably at the bottom of high tier. Honestly, I'm EXTREMELY confident right now, and my ability is way way beyond anywhere it was before. I expect to place top 3 at a national very soon .

Lol, gloating aside, yeah ZSS should be a little higher I guess. I don't even know where she is, I don't keep on top of the tier list much, I think It's kinda bull tbh and no one should look at it as anywhere near an accurate account of the characters' potential. I also don't give any sort of credit to the Backroom. It is full of bias, egotism (maybe I'm egotistical, but this kind of egotism is really negative and makes no sense), and a lot of random *** people are members in there.

The only thing right now, is I'm very tempted to go MK a lot now since me and my brother have been practicing, and I just feel soooo much more in control with MK over ZSS. I don't know, it's one of those things where I'm not sure if it really matters on who I use, and I might just chose the optimal tools to win. Why choose a Rook when you can choose a Queen?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Honestly, I'm EXTREMELY confident right now, and my ability is way way beyond anywhere it was before. I expect to place top 3 at a national very soon .

Me, too, man; me, too.

 

[Justblaze647]

The only thing right now, is I'm very tempted to go MK a lot now since me and my brother have been practicing, and I just feel soooo much more in control with MK over ZSS.

lol

 

[DerpDaBerp]

v5 nao kthx

 

[stingers]

yeah i cant wait for ROB to go up =]

 

[B!squick]

I predict a 2 spot loss for Bowser in this one. Or maybe he wont move at all, that'd be a surprise.

 

[Spelt]

i predict a 20 spot loss for bowser.