The New SBR - Another MK Legality Vote?

[Inui]

Sure it's not a very hard matchup for Snake but I still say MK wins it. Yes Snake is underplayed but, no he won't be the best character if MK is there. MK is easier to play and he is just a better character.

Snake has to do significantly less work to win regardless of who his opponent is.

That's Easy Mode right there.

 

[teh_spamerer]

Also, Spam is too bias and will never admit that Snake doesn't win every matchup like 100-0.

Wow, you're gay. I never said anything remotely similar to him winning every matchup 100-0.

Snakes camping is not unstoppable. It's not even his best aspect. I way rather get a grab with Snake than hit with a grenade. I way rather force someone to the ledge and deal 80% damage before they get back up then just run away and camp. His camping is good, but it's not what makes him him.

His camping + his other broken moves is what makes him. In some matchups you have to camp and in some you don't.

Why should this be the case....D3 hasthe advantage from what I've seen...

One of Dedede's biggest advantages is that he's heavy. His recovery is fairly easy to edgeguard with Snake. Dair/fsmash both kill very early. If he's going for the ledge fsmash, otherwise shield the up b and dair him. Even if dair doesn't kill, it does something in the upper 20s and will set up for another edgeguard.

On stages with platforms at different heights like Battlefield, Brinstar, etc. you can camp the top platforms by dropping C4s over and over. Dedede's throws have external hitboxes so if you throw Snake while he's holding a grenade they both blow up. You can pull/drop grenades and boostsmash through him whenever he gets close which will also pick them up in case he grabs you.

Dedede also doesn't have great reliable killing moves. In training mode against a level 3 Snake from the center of FD set to stop(it does DI though not optimally) here is when he kills Snake with various moves

Dedede
fsmash - 55%
fully charged jet hammer - 59%
undiminished Gordo - 91%
dash attack - 109%
uptilt - 119%
up b landing attack only - 123%
upsmash - 125%
dsmash - 132%
dtilt at ledge - 137%
bair - 144%
fair - 146%

Note, moves in training mode kill ~7% weaker than in normal matches. Unless Snake is dumb and he airdodges/sidesteps into stuff like dash attack or Dedede gets a lucky Gordo, he gets to live for quite some time. Gordos DO get diminished by Waddle Dees hitting Snake though and Waddle Dees can also be used to regenerate his tilts.

Snake's dthrow does 13% by itself. If you shield you cut off 1/2 their options(getup and getup attack) w/o thinking and if they're near the ledge you get rid of ALL of their options. You should be able to guess right at least half the time and ftilt them, which means they take 34% from getting grabbed. That's about as much if not more then Snake takes being CGed across the stage.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Actually, Jab Ftilt does not combo if Meta Knight uses his get up attack. Even if you buffer it it won't hit.

 

[ColinJF]

Note, moves in training mode kill ~7% weaker than in normal matches.

For future reference: if a move kills at x% in training mode, it kills at (x/1.05) % in versus mode. For example, a 109% kill in training mode is a ~104% kill in versus mode.

 

[teh_spamerer]

If a move kills at x% in training mode, it kills at (x/1.05) % in versus mode. For example, a 109% kill in training mode is a ~104% kill in versus mode.

You sure? A non DI Meta fsmash at the ledge kills Snake at 85% at the ledge of FD and kills him at 78 or 79 in versus mode.

 

[ColinJF]

You sure? A non DI Meta fsmash at the ledge kills Snake at 85% at the ledge of FD and kills him at 78 or 79 in versus mode.

It's based on damage after the hit and the move does 1.05 times as much damage in versus mode.

(85+14)/1.05 - 14*1.05 ~= 79.6%

The reason it isn't exactly what you expect is that 85% isn't actually the lowest percent at which it kills in training mode. It might be, say, 84.2%, but you can't (easily) test that. In fact, it could kill as low as 84.001%.

In other words, the real value could be anywhere between (84+14)/1.05 - 14*1.05 = 78.6% and 79.6%, which fits with your observation.

So the formula works.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Most new players to the Super Smash Bros. series want MK banned. Because they are new and not experienced. And these n00bs are deceived from all the failed MK match up threads and Ankoku Character Ranking Chart.
The Metaknight boards has the worst match up thread out of all the character boards. Sorry to say. Ankoku's character ranking list doesn't factor in separate individual wins from different players, its just the same old active tournament goers. And it doesn't factor in online rankings either.

the brawl boards are so dangerously stupid it actually harms the community. it's like a malignant tumor if you're looking at it from an optimistic point of view. I think a majority of the people who post in brawl character forums wear nametags on a daily basis so they don't forget their names if what the intelligence of what they say on the internet has any connection to how they actually live.

This is one of the many reason why people should go to tournaments. I stopped reading match-up threads because most of them suck (I contribute either way)...MK board is no different...
...making your own experiences is worth a lot more
(I noticed that myself, 'cuz people call me scrubby whenever I say D3 v G&W is even )

Snake has to do significantly less work to win regardless of who his opponent is.

That's Easy Mode right there.

Easy mode is too much said. It's the same as the MK vs Marth match-up. Just because MK has the advantage doesn't mean the match-up "easy".

Dedede also doesn't have great reliable killing moves. In training mode against a level 3 Snake from the center of FD set to stop(it does DI though not optimally) here is when he kills Snake with various moves

Dedede
fsmash - 55%
fully charged jet hammer - 59%
undiminished Gordo - 91%
dash attack - 109%
uptilt - 119%
up b landing attack only - 123%
upsmash - 125%
dsmash - 132%
dtilt at ledge - 137%
bair - 144%
fair - 146%

Note, moves in training mode kill ~7% weaker than in normal matches. Unless Snake is dumb and he airdodges/sidesteps into stuff like dash attack or Dedede gets a lucky Gordo, he gets to live for quite some time. Gordos DO get diminished by Waddle Dees hitting Snake though and Waddle Dees can also be used to regenerate his tilts.

OK this is where I disagree. Uptilt KOs @119% + 7%...126% vs Snake is very early considering that Snake a) usually lives good amounts higher and b) Snake needs to deal lots of damage himself. He is capable to do so but not as fast as D3 can with the CG (and normal throw).

The problem with the KO % is that they are all calculated from the Center of FD though D3s CG will make it nearly impossible to stay right at the center. Bair is a perfectly viable KO move and it will never take 144% to KO Snake with it...

Also about your edgeguarding comment: D3 can edgeguard Snake way more effective than vice versa. His throws off the stage put Snake in a worse position from where D3 can either bair or dair Snake. Snake has no move that make D3 easily edgeguarded...D3 can fthrow him after a CG and force him to recover. Snake will be open for all of D3s aerial and D3 can throw Snake off the stage more often than vice verse. If you mention offstage game, D3 clearly has the advantage.

 

[teh_spamerer]

OK this is where I disagree. Uptilt KOs @119% + 7%...126% vs Snake is very early considering that Snake a) usually lives good amounts higher and b) Snake needs to deal lots of damage himself. He is capable to do so but not as fast as D3 can with the CG (and normal throw).

A) It's weaker in training mode, not versus so it'd be ~112%. I don't recall how much damage it does off the top of my head to use the formula ColinJF posted to find the exact amount but you can live higher than 112 as long as you have good DI. I tested with a level 3 CPU and humans can DI FAR better than that. CPU DI does enable them to live longer but not by that much better than no DI. Also, and far more importantly, you have to be literally right on top of Dedede to get hit by that uptilt. There is NO way to set it up. The only possible way for Snake to get hit by it is if they suck and get hit by roll --> uptilt or they're dumb and they roll/airdodge into Dedede.

B) One CG across the entire stage with starting fresh dthrow is going to do ~45 and. Now that's a good amount of damage but the frequency of Dedede getting grabs when he is right at the ledge is very low. If Dedede grab attacks under 100% you can break out by mashing out

You also are ignoring that if Snake is holding a grenade Dedede can't CG him at all. Dedede isn't fast enough to just chase down Snake's boost smash and grab him before he throws the grenade and pulls another one.

The problem with the KO % is that they are all calculated from the Center of FD though D3s CG will make it nearly impossible to stay right at the center. Bair is a perfectly viable KO move and it will never take 144% to KO Snake with it...

That goes both ways. I don't have data from when Snake kills Dedede from the center of FD but look at the data of when he kills himself

Snake
fsmash - 65%
dair all 4 hits - 94%
c4 - 109%
uptilt horizontal hitbox - 119%
nair all 4 hits - 123%
upair - 126%
uptilt vertical hitbox ~ 130%
bair - 130%
land mine - 141%
jab combo - 145%
ftilt both hits - 147%
dtilt - 154%
ftilt second hit only - 156%
jab third hit - 157%
upsmash both hits - 159%
grenade - 181%
upsmash mortar only - 191%

Even considering that Dedede is heavier, Snake's moves are significantly stronger in general both in terms of damage and ability to land them. Whenever Dedede has to up b that's basically a stock.

Also about your edgeguarding comment: D3 can edgeguard Snake way more effective than vice versa. His throws off the stage put Snake in a worse position from where D3 can either bair or dair Snake. Snake has no move that make D3 easily edgeguarded...D3 can fthrow him after a CG and force him to recover. Snake will be open for all of D3s aerial and D3 can throw Snake off the stage more often than vice verse. If you mention offstage game, D3 clearly has the advantage.

His dthrow is the only one that sets up at all for edgeguarding. If Snake gets bthrown or fthrown off the stage he can immediately double jump and up b to avoid getting edgeguarded. If Snake ftilts Dedede, which can be easily landed after a dthrow, he can send Dedede offstage. While Dedede does have pretty good edgeguarding in general and in this match, Snake's is nothing to scoff at. If Dedede has to up b he dies at absurdly low percents compared to when Snake dies.

 

[CaliburChamp]

I remember using Up+b with DDD and DDD died at 60% from a charged up-smash from Snake. It's very hard for DDD to get back to the edge, especially since Snake's charged up-smash has so much range and power.

 

[Deleted member]

I wouldn't expect a MK ban vote any time soon if ever. The 2 prior ones were fairly one-sided, and we can see other characters catching up to MK quickly.

And yeah, I think snake and MK are about even. Too bad snake loses to falco or I think he'd take it.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

And yeah, I think snake and MK are about even. Too bad snake loses to falco or I think he'd take it.

Snake actually wins vs Falco

 

[Atomsk_92]

lol really again guys? didn't you learn last time that he isn't getting banned

 

[_Yes!_]

People should stop complaining about MK. Everyone around here has their own way of beating the character.

Snake beats Dedede and Falco IMO

vs Dedede:
To paraphrase the great Isaiah: "Don't get grabbed"
That's all there is to this matchup. With Snake it's very possible to not get grabbed. Take away the grab what does d3 have? Aerials? Snake canbeat most aerials with Utilt or Usmash. Snake can massively camp D3 on any stage. I've had an easy time ledgeguarding too. Just Nair them out of the upB or do what Spam said. Ban FD and you're pretty much made.

vs Falco: (some of this i learned from asking Spamer)
To paraphrase the great Isaiah: "Don't get grabbed"
Or better yet, if you can get grabbed, do 30% to yourself, and proceed to win the matchup instead of taking 70+ from CG/spike/downB recovery. What does falco have on snake? Lazers? crawl under and boostsmash in between shdl's. Falco's very light and dies quickly from Snake's utilt compared to the rest of the cast, as shown here (relatively speaking to mario's upsmash)

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=156908

Also, Falco SUCKS at killing. Snake lives for a long time. Put the two together...Snake lives to 160% on average vs Falco in my experience. Falco lives to about 100% or a little more. Take away the CG and snake has 130% to work with to do what he does best.

On topic, Metaknight is not ban-worthy.

 

[Atomsk_92]

My ddd lives on avarage over 180%

 

[_Yes!_]

Because you have the DI of a thousand Overswarms

 

[Inui]

Yeah um Snake doesn't really have bad matches lol he's the best character. I find myself using him more and more in tournaments over MK. Maybe I'll main him eventually instead of using him mainly as a teams character and MK-killer.

 

[Atomsk_92]

I find myself using DDD more and more in tournaments over MK and Snake. Maybe I'll main him eventually instead of using him mainly for teh lulz XD

 

[ELI-mination]

Yeah um Snake doesn't really have bad matches lol he's the best character. I find myself using him more and more in tournaments over MK. Maybe I'll main him eventually instead of using him mainly as a teams character and MK-killer.

DK and Pika **** Snake.

Mario and Luigi do really well against Snake.

Snake's recovery is overrated, he can get gimped by so many characters.

Oh, and DDD ***** Snake too... but if you start camping like really really hard with Snake vs. anyone, it drags the match out for a loooong time. That doesn't mean Snake has no bad matchups.

And Wario does pretty good vs. Snake. I don't see Snakeee having much trouble beating Snakes with ZSS, but thats probably cuz he's beast.

 

[turbogilman]

DK and Pika **** Snake.

Mario and Luigi do really well against Snake.

Snake's recovery is overrated, he can get gimped by so many characters.

Oh, and DDD ***** Snake too... but if you start camping like really really hard with Snake vs. anyone, it drags the match out for a loooong time. That doesn't mean Snake has no bad matchups.

And Wario does pretty good vs. Snake. I don't see Snakeee having much trouble beating Snakes with ZSS, but thats probably cuz he's beast.

i think when it comes to snake, it really depends on how good the other character/player is playing... etc

the matches with snake can go either way, and my opinion switches pretty often about certain matchups, but overall... snake is just ****

dthrow and nades and ftilt and utilt.

don't need anything else*not even up b, cause you'll never get off the stage hahaha*

 

[Sanji Himura]

I’m sorry, but SBR made the right call when they left MK to the tournament organizers. Just because the vote didn’t turn out your way doesn’t give you the right to complain to the new SBR members asking for a new vote on this matter. It was settled by a 3 to 1 margin in favor of leaving it to the TOs.

It is like Akuma in Super Street Fighter 2: Turbo(not HD Remix). A lot of TOs ban him from tournament play because of a lot of the same issues that you complain about MK, but do they complain when they get their butt beat by the best character of that game? No.

You shouldn’t complain about getting beat by very MK player if you don’t know how to play the game, or don’t care about playing every single character well enough to adapt to playing to a MK, regardless of a player’s style.

 

[nealdt]

The casual/non-SBR SWF community voted to ban Metaknight. The SBR + casuals voted 3-1 against banning. By removing from the SBR the casuals who in theory were more likely to vote FOR banning, wouldn't you expect to see an even greater victory for not-banning in a new vote?

 

[Titanium Dragon]

With all this being said, will there be another SBR vote concerning the legality of Meta-Knight... The last vote was 3-1 in favor of NOT banning Meta Knight in the SBR, HOWEVER, I recall the majority of the SWF poll threads asking "Should MK be Banned?" turning out to be voted "Yes, MK SHOULD be Banned" by the SWF community.

SWF community = scrubdom.

If you think MK should be banned, as of right now, you are a scrub. That may change in six months, but it isn't the case at the moment.

It doesn't matter how many scrubs say he should be banned, because their opinions are worthless.

 

[Sanji Himura]

The casual/non-SBR SWF community voted to ban Metaknight. The SBR + casuals voted 3-1 against banning. By removing from the SBR the casuals who in theory were more likely to vote FOR banning, wouldn't you expect to see an even greater victory for not-banning in a new vote?

No, I would expect a wider margin of leaving it to the TO's hands. MK is just too hot of a topic to deal with right now with a calm head. Take my Akuma example again. Akuma is the best character in Super Turbo, but do you think that Akuma is unbeatable by any character, especially by Ryu or Ken who are Shoto clones of Akuma and know each other's moves? No. It is the skill of the player using the characters that will determine who will win.

That is why I personally will not ban MK even if SBR decided to ban him with the last vote. There is right now, too many match ups that, in the right player's hands, will beat MK right now and nothing will change that right now.

 

[Titanium Dragon]

The entire purpose of these rules is to provide a uniform set of rules. Simple as that. There is no "leaving it up to the TO". Its either in the rules or it isn't.

 

[Sanji Himura]

the Entire Purpose Of These Rules Is To Provide A Uniform Set Of Rules. Simple As That. There Is No "leaving It Up To The To". Its Either In The Rules Or It Isn't.

this List Is Not Meant To Be Copied And Pasted, But Instead Copied And Adjusted To Fit Each Tournaments Situation (time Limits, Regional Philosophies, Etc.).

Fiiiilllllleeeerrrrrr!!!!!!

 

[turbogilman]

SWF community = scrubdom.

If you think MK should be banned, as of right now, you are a scrub. That may change in six months, but it isn't the case at the moment.

It doesn't matter how many scrubs say he should be banned, because their opinions are worthless.

says the guy with less than 100 posts, haaha!

jm with you, but seriously MK is really really bad should be banned.

i am sick of playing tournament sets where you completely destroy someone, and they switch to MK and dominate the second match, then the third barely winning. i may be a scrub to a lot of people, but MK is the savior to many players that are not skilled.

sorry to sucky players who switch to MK to win, you are gay

 

[Master Raven]

says the guy with less than 100 posts, haaha!

jm with you, but seriously MK is really really bad should be banned.

i am sick of playing tournament sets where you completely destroy someone, and they switch to MK and dominate the second match, then the third barely winning. i may be a scrub to a lot of people, but MK is the savior to many players that are not skilled.

sorry to sucky players who switch to MK to win, you are gay

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj6U1AKPEeA

lol

Also, as a player who plays DK a lot and has played hundreds and hundreds of Snakes in over thousands of matches, I can say for certain that DK doesn't **** Snake, but I do think the matchup is either even or 55:45 DK.

 

[nevershootme]

it has been a plague though seeing that a ton of players (even myself) had switched to mk to win. even so the game continues to be a sellout situation with players doing this.

in the end, who's gonna make the most money in tournaments with which character.

 

[clowsui]

People should stop complaining about MK. Everyone around here has their own way of beating the character.

Snake beats Dedede and Falco IMO

vs Dedede:
To paraphrase the great Isaiah: "Don't get grabbed"
That's all there is to this matchup. With Snake it's very possible to not get grabbed. Take away the grab what does d3 have? Aerials? Snake canbeat most aerials with Utilt or Usmash. Snake can massively camp D3 on any stage. I've had an easy time ledgeguarding too. Just Nair them out of the upB or do what Spam said. Ban FD and you're pretty much made.

vs Falco: (some of this i learned from asking Spamer)
To paraphrase the great Isaiah: "Don't get grabbed"
Or better yet, if you can get grabbed, do 30% to yourself, and proceed to win the matchup instead of taking 70+ from CG/spike/downB recovery. What does falco have on snake? Lazers? crawl under and boostsmash in between shdl's. Falco's very light and dies quickly from Snake's utilt compared to the rest of the cast, as shown here (relatively speaking to mario's upsmash)

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=156908

Also, Falco SUCKS at killing. Snake lives for a long time. Put the two together...Snake lives to 160% on average vs Falco in my experience. Falco lives to about 100% or a little more. Take away the CG and snake has 130% to work with to do what he does best.

On topic, Metaknight is not ban-worthy.

Agreeing with the terrible Failco vs. Snake match up, every Snake should be spacing to be away from the grab >_>

Also it's Isai

 

[Vulcan55]

Also it's Isai

Isaiah
...

 

[Nefarious B]

I did vote yes to the poll on these forums a couple weeks ago, after listening to most of the podcast. That being said I've played some MKs recently and played with him, and I changed my opinion. Just like in every other game I've played, there will be the easiest characters to play, but I don't think MK is unbeatable, it just takes more work.

At this point I don't think he merits a ban unless it becomes obvious that using MK is the only strategy viable to stay competitive.

 

[Yuna]

Why was the majority of voters in the General SBR for the ban? Because the vast majority of those people had insufficient insight into Competitive gaming, Competitive Smash and even Brawl itself to make that call.

How many votes were not based at least partially on the "There's nothing you can do against that friggin' Tornado!"-argument? How many people didn't think MK destroys all competition, winning tournaments by leaps and bounds?

The SBR are more well versed in these things. This is why they voted differently from the mindless and ignorant drones of the General Boards.

No, I would expect a wider margin of leaving it to the TO's hands.

It is always up to the TO's. The SBR has only issued a recommended ruleset.

 

[JesiahTEG]

DK and Pika **** Snake.


Oh, and DDD ***** Snake too... but if you start camping like really really hard with Snake vs. anyone, it drags the match out for a loooong time. That doesn't mean Snake has no bad matchups.

And Wario does pretty good vs. Snake. I don't see Snakeee having much trouble beating Snakes with ZSS, but thats probably cuz he's beast.

DK and Pikachu both lose to Snake 60:40. Pikachu. Does. Not. Beat. Snake.

 

[yummynbeefy]

i think hes too dominant while he is beatable hes just won more tournaments as a standalone character (no secondary) that has more tourney wins than the next 10 or so combined!!! there has been dominance in like fox, marth, sheik, and falco in melee but there were low tier players who also did very well (gimpy comes to mind) in todays smash world with mk on the scene its impossible for everyone to shine

hack the game or ban mk thats what i say cuz mk isnt nearly as bad with l canceling in

auto or manuel l canceling, hitstun, no trip, triple jump glitch and all the other stupid stuff

 

[~ Gheb ~]

i think hes too dominant while he is beatable hes just won more tournaments as a standalone character (no secondary) that has more tourney wins than the next 10 or so combined!!! there has been dominance in like fox, marth, sheik, and falco in melee but there were low tier players who also did very well (gimpy comes to mind) in todays smash world with mk on the scene its impossible for everyone to shine

hack the game or ban mk thats what i say cuz mk isnt nearly as bad with l canceling in

auto or manuel l canceling, hitstun, no trip, triple jump glitch and all the other stupid stuff

This is extreeeeeeee~mely wrong.

1.) MK is not too dominant. And if you say "Fox, Marth, Sheik and Falco" have been dominant you're terribly mistaken because Marth alone has 55% of the tourney victories in Melee! MK - despite being supposed to be more broken - has surpassed the 40% dominance and he does not have those "Falcos, Sheiks and Foxes" around him, who are supposed to keep Marth from winning.

2.) I highly doubt that MK ever had more tounrey wins than the next 10 characters combined. In Melee Marth had more wins than all the other characters together!!!

3.) Name any low tier character winning a major Melee tourney!

4.) Gimpy won how many tourneys?

 

[Noraa]

mango winning pound?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

mango winning pound?

This is the final tier list for Super Smash Bros. Melee. Completed October 2008. Approved by M3D. All values are conclusive and finalized.

Better Than Top
Captain Falcon's Sexy Manliness 11.0

Top
Fox 9.9
Marth 9.9
Sheik 9.7
Falco 9.2

High
Peach 8.4
Captain Falcon 8.0
Jigglypuff 8.0
Ice Climbers 7.9

Middle
Samus 6.8
Dr. Mario 6.2
Ganondorf 6.0
Luigi 5.8
Donkey Kong 5.4
Mario 5.3

Low
Link 4.7
Pikachu 4.3
Young Link 4.2
Roy 3.6
Zelda 3.0
Game and Watch 3.0

Bottom
Ness 2.5
Yoshi 2.5
Bowser 2.2
Mewtwo 1.8
Kirby 1.5
Pichu 1.2

Not quite

 

[metaXzero]

Gheb? Marth's "55% dominance" was Ken, Azen, and M2K ****** everything (which took 7 years in comparison to MK's less then 1 year 35-40% percentage). Just saying...

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

I probably have no right to speak, being that I've been on smashboards for only a little while, and I'll probably be banned for flaming and such. I don't mean to be rude (even though I know that's how my message will be conveyed as), but if I could, I' like to voice myself. I'm inexperienced, and I know I am, but being a Brawler since day 1 on the 64, I think my viewpoint is just as important as anyone elses.

MetaKnight is probably the absolute greatest character in Brawl, and if not, he is "Top Tier" , along with Snake, King Deedeedee, Mr. Game and Watch, and whoever else was decidd to be "Top Tier". You all know it, I know it, pretty much everyone knows it. However, besides the fact that he's really really reall good, is there actual reason that MeaKnight deserves to be banned? Is there some strategy that everyone and their grandma knows that he does in every match that lets him be completely untouchable, while being able to kill any 3 of anyone else in the game instantly? Is he unstopable in any aspect? Is he perfect? Did God almighty himself bless MetaKnight with the Flaming Sword of Eden to send any who tried another character into the Hell that is defeat? *pardon me for being blasfemous and all religiousy* Anyone who says yes to any of these questions is either inexperienced, lazy, or dumb. (sorry for offending anyone).

Yes, its true that if you look up any Brawl Tier list, Tournament Results, or Character Chart, you'll find that MetaKnight is typically without an equal. But there are several reasons for that. First of ll, Ties are mainly a popularity list. The people that win tournaments are those that have the experience and that go around kicking the snot out of everyone. And that's all fine and dandy, except that becaue MetaKnight is such an easy character to use, many of the pros that win tournaments are using him, and all of the newbies that see him winning everything either view him as rigged, or try to jump on the band wagon and look like pros themselves, imulating those that use him. Kinda like how certain people smoke so that they look cool, just because they see the other cool kids doing it. MetaKnight's good, and he's popular. But that's no reason to ban him. And I don't see that as a reason to start up more poles to try to get him banned.

Also, think about the reprocutions of banning him. This would be the first time that someone was banned in the Smash Bros series for being too good. But if you take out the best person, what happns to the 2nd best character? The pros might pick them up, or make another person fill in the Void that use to be where MetaKnight was, and then they'll look too good and face banning, and the situation will just landslide. Snake will get the axe (which will upset the company tht owned him that no one wants to use their hero), Deedeedee will get the royal boot, Falco will get Fried, Marth muched, and soon, so many characters who get picked that way will be banned that Brawl's roster will be viewed as lacking, and the game will be mainly a laughing stock. This might be exajerated a bit, but if the only reason to ban MetaKnight is that he's too good and you don't want to deal with him, then this isn't a completely impossible event.

Brawl is very young. The game has only been around for maybe a year or so? (I have no sense of time). In Melee, Marth and Falco and Fox and Shiek were all facing banishment because they were too good too. Notice how they're still around in Melee tournaments? It's because people got off their butts, worked on strategies and new moves, and acually did stuff about it. And look at what happened. Melee was stll playable, and everyone still enjoyed it, to the point where we got a sequal. It's too early to abolish anyone at this stage. Either the pros should try help the little kids more by trying to show them how to stop MetaKnight, or the litle kids should prove themselves as pros by showing everyone new tricks to doing so themselves. Again, when MetaKnight becomes fully unstopable is when he deserves to be removed.

As for MetaKnight himself, he's not as overpowered as most people claim. If he were as impossible to fight as people make him to be, then he'd take over Tabuu as the final boss of the SSE. But seriously, several characters, including the Kongs, Pikachu, Lucario (Yay for Lucario), Deedeedee, Game and Watch, and lots of other characters are capable of facing off against him. You know, when you think about it, even someone who uses Ganondorf or Captain Falcon can beat a MetaKnight if they are smarter and/or work faster than him (I threw in the 2nd part because I never think in a Brawl. I just rely on instinct, and several others do so as well). MetaKnight's only dominating because this game is young, and most people aren't trying to go out of their way to stop him. They either lie down and let him walk over them, conform to him and put on the mask and his cape, or simply avoid him and try to have him banned. And none of those options are good. Any character is capable of taking on anyone else and winning, with enough experience, a lot of actual effort on their part, and a little luck. And unless he actually gets some kinda strategy wth time that makes him uber, this community sucks if they decide to just stop trying and ban him.

And for the SBR, these are Brawl's champions. Granted, they are being checked and members being removed to see who belongs and who doesn't, but they are the best of the best. And they certainly don't see MetaKnight deserving to be removed. Then again, what they say is just a guideline. They aren't God. Their word isn't law. And LOTS of people know that. Those people don't follow the SBR's tournament guidelines. They still prohibit Metaknight from play. And that's fine for them. The SBR's words should be respected, but at the same time, they don't HAVE to be respected. On the other hand, most of the people of any community are a bunch of idiots. They are selfish and self serving, and require leaders (like in our case, the SBR) to make decisions for them. Again, we should wait and see what happens. When it becomes an issue, and that most of the community and all of the leaders of our community decide together to ban MetaKight, then let him be banned. But we should wait and see for the future.

I'm sorry for offending anyone. That's just my two cents on the matter. And I'm a very open person. Feel free to flame me or displine me as much as you want. Or yo can respond to me however you want. I like the game, and I'll continue playing it, no matter what.

 

[Marth Xero]

zomg, another amazing /thread post

I supported MetaKnight's being banned, becuase I'm a scrub and is too lazy to figure out how to beat him. Among the people I play online, there is one MetaKnight user, so I have no experience in beating him.

After reading all these arguments, it now makes sense for metaknight not to be banned, even though these discussion are taking place on a whole other skill level (more like, 20) then what I am on.

So what I'm saying is, yeah we should give it time, enough time to see if things will settle even in the lower levels of gameplay.