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The New SBR - Another MK Legality Vote?
- Thread starter Flamingo
- Start date
Funny thing you mention this. In Brawl there's M2K, DSF, Inui, Omni, Teh_Spamerer, Dojo, Overswarm, Lee Martin, Sean, Plank and Forte just to name the more succesfull / notable ones.
That's a bit more than "Ken, Azen and M2K".
metaXzero
Smash Champion
Basically, MK has more successful users then Melee Marth. For Melee Marth, his "55% dominance" boils down to "the same good players winning tournies over and over". MK is a bit of a different story since he has more successful players.
No, I'm not arguing for MK's banning. I'm just challenging the MK/Melee Marth comparison.
the thing is ken azen and m2k actually WON all the tournies
ive WON very few, omni hasnt won any, forte has won very few, overswarms region is absolutely terrible.
we do well, we dont necessarely win that often... there were a lot of marths who did WELL but didnt WIN
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
reposted and slightly editted for emphasis
Why? It's an idiotic argument perpetuated by clearly less-than-informed posters (who are very few and far in between).
Overswarm
is laughing at you
- Joined
- May 4, 2005
- Messages
- 21,181
Ryan-K
Smash Master
nah it is bad, sorry
Mr. Rogu
Smash Ace
yes there should be a revote and this time the SBR should consider the peoples vote from that one thread and then decide if he should be banned. o yea, meta knight should definately be banned!!
Dabuz
Fraud at Smash
the thing is though, there are no impossible matchups with mk for other characters, period, its not like marth vs mewtwo in melee that match and a few others facing a good marth were impossible, every character can beat a good mk, its just most scrubs don't feel its fair tat they lose to a character when they don't think "how can i counter that move or this playstyle" like an example is olimar, at first everyone thought this matchup was broken for mk side, but then olimar's metagame evolved fast, alot faster than all others and we formulated strategies to beat mk, lie super armoring, using our ridiculous range, ect. and most character boards haven't evolved so fast that they have developed these kinds of strategies except for few players of each board, mk shouldn't be considred bannable, because the boards that have evloved faster hae figured out way to fight mk, like dk, or oli, snake, diddy, ect., mk is not bannable as a whole, he doesn't break the game, just abuses it, and with all the mks around they should be predictable enough that all good players can beat them, well,i would write more but im out of time, so see ya all
Justblaze647
Smash Lord
Eh... This idea couldnt hurt... although it might not help much either...
Edit: 700 posts baby!
jus 300 more...
Edit: 700 posts baby!
jus 300 more...
Overswarm
is laughing at you
- Joined
- May 4, 2005
- Messages
- 21,181
Who are you again?
D
Deleted member
Guest
TheTantalus
Smash Hero
I heard overswarm plays R.O.B. and lost to a bowser
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
Also at the whole marth won 55% of tourneys thing.
this comment is completely objective,
samuraipanda came went back and did the math that showed that marth won 55% of tourneys, however after brawl has been out for 6 months, there is absolutely no way that panda could have gone back over the 7 years melee was out and compiled data from every melee tourney that was ever ran.
he therefore had to streamline the process, and as such he only used tourneys that were over a hundred people in size. and in tourneys that had over a hundred attendees, either M2K, Azen, and Ken are basically garanteed to be there.
That being said, its incorrect to state that marth won 55% of tourneys in melee... However it is correct to say that marth won 55% of regional/national tournaments in melee, and if I had to guess, if you could go back and compile the data from EVERY tourney in melee, including the ones that had less than 100 people, im inclined to believe that his dominance rating would be much lower, likely in the same area of dominance that metaknight is in now.
also, to yuna, trust me, ive seen jesiah play, and ive seen him play a great pikachu, ive also played the match for myself, and I know for a fact that jesiah did ALL of his homework on that matchup. He also posted quite a long essay about the entire nature of the matchup.
snake wins. its a fact.
pika has some gimmicks on him, but its not enough, and the fact that you call him uninformed when you dont know the matchup half as well as he does is just plain rediculous.
and overswarm just got TOASTED!!
this comment is completely objective,
samuraipanda came went back and did the math that showed that marth won 55% of tourneys, however after brawl has been out for 6 months, there is absolutely no way that panda could have gone back over the 7 years melee was out and compiled data from every melee tourney that was ever ran.
he therefore had to streamline the process, and as such he only used tourneys that were over a hundred people in size. and in tourneys that had over a hundred attendees, either M2K, Azen, and Ken are basically garanteed to be there.
That being said, its incorrect to state that marth won 55% of tourneys in melee... However it is correct to say that marth won 55% of regional/national tournaments in melee, and if I had to guess, if you could go back and compile the data from EVERY tourney in melee, including the ones that had less than 100 people, im inclined to believe that his dominance rating would be much lower, likely in the same area of dominance that metaknight is in now.
also, to yuna, trust me, ive seen jesiah play, and ive seen him play a great pikachu, ive also played the match for myself, and I know for a fact that jesiah did ALL of his homework on that matchup. He also posted quite a long essay about the entire nature of the matchup.
snake wins. its a fact.
pika has some gimmicks on him, but its not enough, and the fact that you call him uninformed when you dont know the matchup half as well as he does is just plain rediculous.
and overswarm just got TOASTED!!
Inui
Banned via Warnings
lol @ people still believing in those mythological counters
Snake does not have a single bad match-up. His worst possible match-up is a 50/50 with Dedede, but I think Snake wins 55/45.
ELI-mination
Smash Champion
"I use MK therefore he's not broken" WAAHHH
That's the vibe I'm getting from you, lol.
All I know is that I've played many GOOD snake players with these characters and *****, so you can believe what you want about my skill level or the people I play against, but Snake is NOT better than MK.
That's the vibe I'm getting from you, lol.
All I know is that I've played many GOOD snake players with these characters and *****, so you can believe what you want about my skill level or the people I play against, but Snake is NOT better than MK.
TheTantalus
Smash Hero
Fox beats snake by a little (For Inui: my opinion)
Falco beats snake by a little (my opnion)
Dedede/Meta i think run even (my opinion)
From my experience, Inui only uses the character that has the best possible chance to win. Not that his opinion is fact, but Snake is really, really good. And if he thinks Snake is one of the best, well then he's probably not kidding.
Falco beats snake by a little (my opnion)
Dedede/Meta i think run even (my opinion)
From my experience, Inui only uses the character that has the best possible chance to win. Not that his opinion is fact, but Snake is really, really good. And if he thinks Snake is one of the best, well then he's probably not kidding.
Even then that would still be Ken, Azen and M2K vs M2K, DSF, Dojo, Overswarm, LeeMartin and Sean, who all win tournaments in their area.
Your opinion means little if you think Fox beats Snake. Falco doesn't beat him either idk why so many people say that.
I agree with Snake being the best character but I still think D3 has a slight advantage over him like 55/45. He just has overall better match-up's and the advantage over MK himself.
Just cuz they win tournaments in their area doesnt mean they would win national tournaments like ken azen and m2k would in melee.
there were marths who could win tournaments in their corresponding areas, too.
I did get you point, Plank. I still think there's a big margin between the so-called MK "dominance" and the Marth dominance in Melee.
Even if there are about the same number of players placing first overall, the gap is still about 10% higher in Marths favour.
Even if there are about the same number of players placing first overall, the gap is still about 10% higher in Marths favour.
Inui
Banned via Warnings
You have played literally 0 good Snakes because there are absolutely none in your entire state and you have never gone OOS.
Wait, there's one, but he lives in the middle of nowhere, so you haven't played him.
The good Snakes are in NJ and MD/VA.
You probably wouldn't win against any of us due to you believing in his mythological counters.
Fox doesn't beat Snake. Even with Fox's crazy disgustingly good u-smash, Snake's u-tilt will kill way before Fox's u-smash, and Snake's kill move is easier to connect and safer.TheTantalus said:
Snake can edgegaurd Fox with his n-air because Fox's recovery options can't beat it.
Snake merely has to hit Fox a few times to get him to kill percent, and he can crawl under lasers and throw grenades over them in order to force Fox to stop camping or move somewhere else.
Rookie, a known good Fox player in my area, thinks the match-up is in Snake's favour either 55/45 or 60/40. The good Snakes near him, Yes! and myself, agree.
Keitaro thought Falco beat Snake because he usually beats Yes! in that match-up. I said otherwise, and challenged him to a money match.
I win the first match very easily on Yoshi's Island. He then wins on FD barely. I then beat him decisively on Halberd despite an SD.
We money match again, and the first stage is FD, and he barely wins. I then win on Halberd. On Smashville, I somehow forgot to blow myself up, so I got 0 to death CGed and lost.
We money matched again. This time I banned FD and he banned Halberd. This time he got 2-0'd in matches that weren't that close at all.
Simply blowing myself up at the start of each stock with a grenade and C4 at the same time made me win. Falco loses his CG combo/kill. Snake outranges and outprioritizes Falco by a lot and still outlives him significantly despite taking 30% at the start of each stock.
Dedede can't effectively approach a Snake that camps a lot. Just jumping from platform to platform dropping grenades and C4 stops CGing and makes Dedede have to take dumb risks in order to get to Snake. Snake's moves have huge range and can punish anything Dedede does. Snake actually lives to higher damage than Dedede in this match-up, often by a lot, because Snake's kill moves are easier to connect and safer.
Most Snake players don't camp hard enough, so they get grabbed and gimped.
Being CGable =/= automatic disadvantage to Dedede.
Reputable NJ players, like Yes!, teh_spamerer, and myself think Snake has a slight advantage in this match-up.
Meta Knight loses to Snake. Snake has to do very little work in order to win. Simply camping intelligently will grant Snake the win against all but the very best players. Snake can drop a grenade on the ground and then hold one in his hand, limiting Meta Knight’s approach options to grabbing and nothing else since any other option will results in Meta Knight blowing up. Even after getting the grab, only u-throw is safe because other ones will blow him up. Why does this matter that much if Snake is also blown up? Snake lives to 150%+ while Meta Knight can easily die before 100% against Snake. Any trade of damage is in Snake’s favour, even if Snake takes slightly more, due to this huge difference. Snake can throw grenades at Meta Knight and drop them and run away, forcing Meta Knight to approach even if he’s winning.
Snake can punish almost anything Meta Knight does with a grab or an f-tilt. F-tilt does 21% undiminished. That is nearly ¼ of Meta Knight’s stock in a single attack. The move is gigantic and only 4 frames, which is actually faster than Meta Knight’s d-smash, which many people cry about due to its speed. Snake’s grab goes higher than most grabs, meaning grabbing Meta Knight out of the air isn’t hard to do. He can d-throw Meta Knight, doing 12%, and then hold his shield and react to what Meta Knight does. If he gets an f-tilt, that’s 33% and an advantageous situation because Meta Knight will be knocked away and be forced to approach again. He can chase Meta Knight with a d-air, doing 29% and killing him at 75% from the center of a stage with good DI. If Snake connects his n-air or d-air at all, that’s 29%, almost 1/3 of Meta Knight’s stock, in a single attack.
Meta Knight has to get a gimp in order to kill Snake before very high percentages. Snake doesn’t have to do this because he outright kills Meta Knight before 100% with many attacks. Snake can hit Meta Knight with an f-smash and kill him at 0% if Meta Knight DIs badly. Snake can ignore DIing at all and survive Meta Knight’s f-smash from the middle of a stage at well over 100%. That is how unfair the percentages that they die at are. Snake most certainly has the advantage here.
Mew2King, teh_spamerer, Snakeeee, Shadow, myself, and other reputable players agree that Snake has the advantage against Meta Knight.
ELI-mination
Smash Champion
You see the problem here is that you think you have to go OOS in order to be good. What if Bum never went OOS? Would you think he'd have no chance? LOL.
I'm just curious as to how you're coming to these conclusions, they don't make any sense.... You've never even played me, you haven't played everyone in NY because not everyone goes OOS. Not everyone is known, not everyone is bad as a result of that.
I don't think I'll be going OOS anyway, because I honestly don't care enough at all, even though my crew is trying to get me to go.
I'm just curious as to how you're coming to these conclusions, they don't make any sense.... You've never even played me, you haven't played everyone in NY because not everyone goes OOS. Not everyone is known, not everyone is bad as a result of that.
I don't think I'll be going OOS anyway, because I honestly don't care enough at all, even though my crew is trying to get me to go.
Inui
Banned via Warnings
Way to argue against the actual substance of my post showing that Snake doesn't really have bad match-ups.
You don't have to go OOS to be good. You just have to go OOS or beat top OOS players when they come to you to be truly recognized as a top player.
QFTAtomsk_92 said:
NeoCrono
Smash Ace
ouch, the truth hurts I guess
I have to thank you atomsk, my little sister was doing some dance and then I looked at her and yelled out "your doing the lucky star dance!!!" and she was like how did I know. Then I said "atomsk sig" so thank you
snake is the man, I believe pit does pretty well against him though
Inui
Banned via Warnings
Tell that to RoguePit. He couldn't even get my Snake to one stock, let alone win. ~_~
Ryan-K
Smash Master
wow roguepit inui just called you a bi
tch i wouldn't take that if i were you
NeoCrono
Smash Ace
ahhhh, rougepit
the person who told me to change my name at the last tournament I went to, cool guy lol
I'll tell him that next time I see him. Or could it be that you're just really good lol
Atomsk_92
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2006
- Messages
- 6,362
This made me feel all warm and fuzzy insideouch, the truth hurts I guess
I have to thank you atomsk, my little sister was doing some dance and then I looked at her and yelled out "your doing the lucky star dance!!!" and she was like how did I know. Then I said "atomsk sig" so thank you
snake is the man, I believe pit does pretty well against him though
ELI-mination
Smash Champion
Oh snap, OOS Snake players know how to ftilt and camp grenades better than NY players? I better go and discover some of these "good" Snake players. /drama
PS: WAAHH SNAKE IS BROKEN WAHHH
PS: WAAHH SNAKE IS BROKEN WAHHH
Atomsk_92
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2006
- Messages
- 6,362
You are a complete fool
NeoCrono
Smash Ace
the sig make me feel all warm and fuzzy lol
back to snake being snake, ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
yep I wish I knew more
ELI-mination
Smash Champion
Ouch my feelings hurt. LOL STFU.You are a complete fool
Tianxiazhai
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2008
- Messages
- 285
There should be another vote of the BRoom ONLY. Because they purged those who dont play anymore, they are the people who know what they know. The community will not have a good discussion about this, so i say leave it to the Br.
Ryan-K
Smash Master
who cares its just brawl, inui you always seem to say it's a ****ty game yet look how serious you guys take it lol
NeoCrono
Smash Ace
and @ the subject, you I do believe that only the Broom should vote. Even though everyone voted to have him banned, not all of those people go to tournaments. So instead of speaking from tournament experience, they are talking from there *****. But hey, I could be wrong *shrugs*
^^Despite what the SBR believes, it has also been stated that while we of the SBR don't believe he should be banned, TO's should do what's right for their community.
Not every community can handle MK's flocking the scene, but some can, and do so quite well.
Not every community can handle MK's flocking the scene, but some can, and do so quite well.