The New Official Kirby Matchup Rankings AND GUIDE Thread! :: OMGOMGOMG! We're done!

[fromundaman]

Actually, Charge shot is best for punishing spot dodges or rolls (at least that's how the Samus main here uses it. He waits until we try to dodge a missile or Zair then BAM!).

So yeah... Learn to perfect shield a lot.

 

[Ravin]

Not knowing the Samus matchup can be bad. If anyone wants a few play rounds, Id be more then happy to give you a few rounds to let you test and or get a few things in a good feeling. Seriously friendlies because wifi is Srsus Buznus.

 

[~Shao~]

I play with Samus frequently, and one setup for d-tilt you got to watch out for is ground release to d-tilt. This will catch you off-guard most of the times, because d-tilt range is enormous, and since Samus will probably be pummeling, chances are d-tilt will be fresh, and you don't want to get hit by THAT.

 

[Asdioh]

I haven't read recent posts yet, but I'm just going to throw this out here right now:

http://www.smashboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=143

CRAP I copy/pasted the link to the Kirby boards before posting the quote I meant to use. *goes to get it*

ok, here it is:

T25 - Asdioh: Kirby doesn't work against Diddy, no matter how many people on the Kirby boards would like to claim Kirby has the advantage

This is coming from a guy who's beaten Chudat..just saying.


Also, thanks to the tournament I went to this weekend, I'd just like to point out more support for Lucario/Snake having an advantage over Kirby, since those are what I lost to. I truly believe I outplayed BOTH of the opponents that beat me, and they won because both Lucario and Snake are ridiculously good at winning, despite being outplayed (at least by Kirby)

I beat Lucario first game on PS1, he counterpicked Yoshi's Island. I should have won the set here and advanced, but I didn't. What happened was, he was on his last stock at 110%. I was on my second stock at a high percent. I was thinking "Alright, Lucario is stupidly strong right now, but I just need to land one KO move and I've got this." It did not work. He knocked me out somehow, and then I spent my next stock trying to KO him. I got punished with superstrong aura spheres/fsmashes and aerials for trying. The only reliable move I could land on him was Bair, and it soon became too stale to KO, plus his great DI saved him. He ended up winning the match with like 130-140 damage, and then beating me on my Brinstar counterpick due to bad play on my part.

Something similar happened with Snake...first match, I DESTROYED him first stock. His first stock ended with an epic finished (after I read/comboed him to high %, he pulled a grenade and picked it up, I upthrew him, which sent him flying, and the grenade exploded and killed him)

The thing is, despite me outplaying him in this entire match, he almost won the first game because Snake lives so long and kills so easily. Anyway, he counterpicked Battlefield, and won because I suck on Battlefield, especially against Snake. I banned Halberd, I'll make sure to ban Battlefield instead next time, because I don't suck so much there. He banned Rainbow Cruise, I took him to Jungle Japes because Brinstar + Snake = meh. Jungle Japes was pretty lame though because it was SUPER dark and I could barely see Snake OR his explosives, especially when combined with the glare from the lights. So I don't really know what to pick against Snakes anymore.

TL;DR version:

Lucario is at least 55-45 over Kirby because he can camp on his last stock and kill you really easily. You can gimp Lucario, but your chances of gimping him on his last stock are really low, considering he will barely let you touch him.

Snake is at least 60-40 over Kirby because he has essentially 4 stocks in a 3 stock match.

 

[DFat2]

I haven't read recent posts yet, but I'm just going to throw this out here right now:

http://www.smashboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=143

CRAP I copy/pasted the link to the Kirby boards before posting the quote I meant to use. *goes to get it*

ok, here it is:

This is coming from a guy who's beaten Chudat..just saying.


Also, thanks to the tournament I went to this weekend, I'd just like to point out more support for Lucario/Snake having an advantage over Kirby, since those are what I lost to. I truly believe I outplayed BOTH of the opponents that beat me, and they won because both Lucario and Snake are ridiculously good at winning, despite being outplayed (at least by Kirby)

I beat Lucario first game on PS1, he counterpicked Yoshi's Island. I should have won the set here and advanced, but I didn't. What happened was, he was on his last stock at 110%. I was on my second stock at a high percent. I was thinking "Alright, Lucario is stupidly strong right now, but I just need to land one KO move and I've got this." It did not work. He knocked me out somehow, and then I spent my next stock trying to KO him. I got punished with superstrong aura spheres/fsmashes and aerials for trying. The only reliable move I could land on him was Bair, and it soon became too stale to KO, plus his great DI saved him. He ended up winning the match with like 130-140 damage, and then beating me on my Brinstar counterpick due to bad play on my part.

Something similar happened with Snake...first match, I DESTROYED him first stock. His first stock ended with an epic finished (after I read/comboed him to high %, he pulled a grenade and picked it up, I upthrew him, which sent him flying, and the grenade exploded and killed him)

The thing is, despite me outplaying him in this entire match, he almost won the first game because Snake lives so long and kills so easily. Anyway, he counterpicked Battlefield, and won because I suck on Battlefield, especially against Snake. I banned Halberd, I'll make sure to ban Battlefield instead next time, because I don't suck so much there. He banned Rainbow Cruise, I took him to Jungle Japes because Brinstar + Snake = meh. Jungle Japes was pretty lame though because it was SUPER dark and I could barely see Snake OR his explosives, especially when combined with the glare from the lights. So I don't really know what to pick against Snakes anymore.

TL;DR version:

Lucario is at least 55-45 over Kirby because he can camp on his last stock and kill you really easily. You can gimp Lucario, but your chances of gimping him on his last stock are really low, considering he will barely let you touch him.

Snake is at least 60-40 over Kirby because he has essentially 4 stocks in a 3 stock match.

Who decided to call it in favor of Kirby anyway? I though that I was the only one that had trouble Vs. Diddy K.

But, yeah, Snakes Meh. Lucario is Kinda meh as well. (stupid dodge roll :/).

But, see, this Is what I meant by re discussing stuff and bringing both sides of the discussion.

 

[A1lion835]

I haven't read recent posts yet, but I'm just going to throw this out here right now:

http://www.smashboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=143

CRAP I copy/pasted the link to the Kirby boards before posting the quote I meant to use. *goes to get it*

ok, here it is:

This is coming from a guy who's beaten Chudat..just saying.


Also, thanks to the tournament I went to this weekend, I'd just like to point out more support for Lucario/Snake having an advantage over Kirby, since those are what I lost to. I truly believe I outplayed BOTH of the opponents that beat me, and they won because both Lucario and Snake are ridiculously good at winning, despite being outplayed (at least by Kirby)

I beat Lucario first game on PS1, he counterpicked Yoshi's Island. I should have won the set here and advanced, but I didn't. What happened was, he was on his last stock at 110%. I was on my second stock at a high percent. I was thinking "Alright, Lucario is stupidly strong right now, but I just need to land one KO move and I've got this." It did not work. He knocked me out somehow, and then I spent my next stock trying to KO him. I got punished with superstrong aura spheres/fsmashes and aerials for trying. The only reliable move I could land on him was Bair, and it soon became too stale to KO, plus his great DI saved him. He ended up winning the match with like 130-140 damage, and then beating me on my Brinstar counterpick due to bad play on my part.

Something similar happened with Snake...first match, I DESTROYED him first stock. His first stock ended with an epic finished (after I read/comboed him to high %, he pulled a grenade and picked it up, I upthrew him, which sent him flying, and the grenade exploded and killed him)

The thing is, despite me outplaying him in this entire match, he almost won the first game because Snake lives so long and kills so easily. Anyway, he counterpicked Battlefield, and won because I suck on Battlefield, especially against Snake. I banned Halberd, I'll make sure to ban Battlefield instead next time, because I don't suck so much there. He banned Rainbow Cruise, I took him to Jungle Japes because Brinstar + Snake = meh. Jungle Japes was pretty lame though because it was SUPER dark and I could barely see Snake OR his explosives, especially when combined with the glare from the lights. So I don't really know what to pick against Snakes anymore.

TL;DR version:

Lucario is at least 55-45 over Kirby because he can camp on his last stock and kill you really easily. You can gimp Lucario, but your chances of gimping him on his last stock are really low, considering he will barely let you touch him.

Snake is at least 60-40 over Kirby because he has essentially 4 stocks in a 3 stock match.

100% truth. I honestly don't know what to CP vs snake either...I got called stupid for saying saying snake was good on Japes.

And I had the same experience against lucario as you...

;(

 

[fromundaman]

Yeah, I was thinking of redoing Lucario at some point as well. He is a comeback King! And it doesn't help that he outranges/outprioritizes us everywhere...

EDIT:

But Japes IS a bad Snake stage. One of his worst in fact, as long as your brightness isn't down low (And trust me, I know how that feels. The school won't let us change the brightness on the TV we use... >.< )

 

[Percon]

I haaaaate fighting Lucario as Kirby. You need to really read him to get solid hits in. Kirby's slow falls speed hurts in this matchup and Lucario's dair is OMGWTF uncool for us.

Snake isn't as bad as I first thought... I think he has the advantage, but not that big of one.

 

[Asdioh]

I found Ally's Snake easier than some of the others.

Probaby because Ally doesn't like Kirby XD

I KOed him with a Grounded Hammer in the first game, which means I epic win. But yeah, I played him in 4 matches, and by the last two he had enough experience to read me better than he previously had. Snake can afford to be patient and just wait for you to make mistakes. And the thing about Ally's Snake: It's not so much that Ally is ridiculously super duper good, it's more like...he forces his opponent to suck. He controls the stage so well that you have very few options to do anything, and he punishes you for it. Also, he almost always comboes you after you get blown up by grenades/C4/dsmash mine/nikita/mortar. You get blown up, and fly straight into his uair/bair/utilt and oftentimes, you die. I'm guessing Ally's the best Snake there is.

In the beginning of my second money match, he was kicking the crap out of me (I didn't play very well in this set) and then I Kirbycided him XD

What sucks is that I played really well in my first MM against him, and pretty crappily in the second one...and the second one is the one that lots of people were watching.


And yeah, I wasn't joking when I said I think I outplayed the Lucario. He was extremely predictable with his rolldodges, and I punished them with Bair a ton. It's just that it's practically impossible to get in range of Lucario for a Fsmash, and Kirby's other KO options are too punishable. -.-

 

[A1lion835]

I found Ally's Snake easier than some of the others.

Probaby because Ally doesn't like Kirby XD

I KOed him with a Grounded Hammer in the first game, which means I epic win. But yeah, I played him in 4 matches, and by the last two he had enough experience to read me better than he previously had. Snake can afford to be patient and just wait for you to make mistakes. And the thing about Ally's Snake: It's not so much that Ally is ridiculously super duper good, it's more like...he forces his opponent to suck. He controls the stage so well that you have very few options to do anything, and he punishes you for it. Also, he almost always comboes you after you get blown up by grenades/C4/dsmash mine/nikita/mortar. You get blown up, and fly straight into his uair/bair/utilt and oftentimes, you die. I'm guessing Ally's the best Snake there is.

In the beginning of my second money match, he was kicking the crap out of me (I didn't play very well in this set) and then I Kirbycided him XD

What sucks is that I played really well in my first MM against him, and pretty crappily in the second one...and the second one is the one that lots of people were watching.


And yeah, I wasn't joking when I said I think I outplayed the Lucario. He was extremely predictable with his rolldodges, and I punished them with Bair a ton. It's just that it's practically impossible to get in range of Lucario for a Fsmash, and Kirby's other KO options are too punishable. -.-

Yea, I here the first part about ally a lot...he controls the stage.

ROFL he's probably like "Cheap *******." (to which you obviously respond "Snake mainer").

That sort of stinks...

*scans through rest* Yea, I have to agree.

 

[Percon]

I play/watch Ally more often than most others here, being Canadian and all.

He simply is the best Snake. His stage control is phenomenal and he's just a really smart player overall.

If he really wants to (ie tournament match) he'll jump out of your Kirby/DDD suicide. Not kidding.

Last tournament I played him at I did pretty good I'd say. I took a single match off of his Snake in a friendly, though I think he may have SD'd once (it was on Yoshi's, BTW). Other than that I did decent, except for on Final. He totally wrecked me there. Now I know what to ban vs Snake.

 

[AlphaZealot]

You guys should rethink Diddy, I eat Kirby's for breakfast.

Yes, if you are wondering, pink marshmallows for breakfast do taste good.

 

[Lord Viper]

You guys should rethink Diddy, I eat Kirby's for breakfast.

Yes, if you are wondering, pink marshmallows for breakfast do taste good.

☆ ROFL, even if you, the only person that "eat's" Kirby's for breakfast with Diddy Kong, you have to realize not everyone play's the same as you. Also, as long as you don't pick a flat stage, then Diddy Kong should have a disadvantage on Kirby becuase Diddy Kong's Down-B, (his most effective move) is mostly effective on the ground, and the bannana's is easily caught in the are. As I recalled, I matched you last year, though I lost because I swiched to Peach, but I had an easy time when I picked Kirby on Battlefield, (you lucky it wasn't Pokemon Stadum 2). XD ☆

☆ But that's my option, I think you already saw the number and how to deal with Diddy Kong, so I'll leave it at that. ☆

 

[fromundaman]

Meh, I personally don't have much trouble vs Diddy, but then again, I haven't played AZ either...
Not sure if it's 60-40 though... Now that I have more experience with it it feels closer to 50-50 or 55-45 Kirby, but that's just my opinion. Asdioh would put it at something close to 500-0 Bananas so....

 

[A1lion835]

You guys should rethink Diddy, I eat Kirby's for breakfast.

Yes, if you are wondering, pink marshmallows for breakfast do taste good.

We should rethink him...but, since we have to imagine the "ideal player", I say we determine it by Chu vs AZ.

 

[momochuu]

And Ice Climbers too.

 

[SheerMadness]

You're right we should rethink IC because theres no way they have a 60-40 advantage on Kirby lol.

 

[AlphaZealot]

Viper: IIRC I beat you 2-0 and 2 stocked your Kirby (which was why you switched to Peach), I know I didn't lose because I was undefeated and didn't drop a single game in pools at that tournament (actually, at most tournaments that use 3 stocks for pools I don't drop any games, at COT4 I only dropped 1 game in my pool and it was the very first one I played)
I beat Asdioh 2-0 again last weekend (after beating him 2-0 a month ago)
I beat YBM 2-1, 2 stocking him in game 1/3 and barely losing game 2 on Brinstar (I fell apart on the last life)
I beat YBM 2 weeks ago 3-2, but each game he won I believe was really close, while I had run away victories on at least 1 of my wins (ie won by at least 2 stocks)
I did a friendly set against ChuDat last December (when I was much worse than I am now) and won 2-1, I think 2 stocking him at least one of the matches (Yea, its a friendly, doesn't mean anything, but at least I came out on top)

I don't think I have ever lost to a Kirby in a tournament set, in a friendly set, or even in an online set. I'm not saying it can't happen or won't happen, simply that I have yet to see a Kirby do anything that made me think "omg, Diddy is at a disadvantage" and I feel the only reason it is listed at 60-40 Kirby's favor on this board is because Kirby as multiple jumps, and for some reason that sole property elevates Kirby in the match up, when it is really mostly meaningless because a good player will simply wait for you to land and combo the heck out of you or just peanut you/uthrow nana > uair/fair and there isn't anything you can do about it.

And all everyone says about bananas is "stay off the ground" which is obvious advice that just shows you guys need to learn Diddy has far more tools than you are giving him credit for.

If all Kirby can do is win on Brinstar then Kirby is at a disadvantage. Like it or not as Diddy I'm guaranteed 2 flat stages in a set and it is extremely rare I ever lose that first game. This also shouldn't take away from Diddy on other levels, because I think levels like Norfair/Mansion/PS2 are three of Diddy's best stages just after the obvious ones (ie Smashville/FD/PS1 and maybe lylat/BF depending on match up (against Kirby Lylat is good)).

 

[Percon]

Viper: IIRC I beat you 2-0 and 2 stocked your Kirby (which was why you switched to Peach), I know I didn't lose because I was undefeated and didn't drop a single game in pools at that tournament (actually, at most tournaments that use 3 stocks for pools I don't drop any games, at COT4 I only dropped 1 game in my pool and it was the very first one I played)
I beat Asdioh 2-0 again last weekend (after beating him 2-0 a month ago)
I beat YBM 2-1, 2 stocking him in game 1/3 and barely losing game 2 on Brinstar (I fell apart on the last life)
I beat YBM 2 weeks ago 3-2, but each game he won I believe was really close, while I had run away victories on at least 1 of my wins (ie won by at least 2 stocks)
I did a friendly set against ChuDat last December (when I was much worse than I am now) and won 2-1, I think 2 stocking him at least one of the matches (Yea, its a friendly, doesn't mean anything, but at least I came out on top)

I don't think I have ever lost to a Kirby in a tournament set, in a friendly set, or even in an online set. I'm not saying it can't happen or won't happen, simply that I have yet to see a Kirby do anything that made me think "omg, Diddy is at a disadvantage" and I feel the only reason it is listed at 60-40 Kirby's favor on this board is because Kirby as multiple jumps, and for some reason that sole property elevates Kirby in the match up, when it is really mostly meaningless because a good player will simply wait for you to land and combo the heck out of you or just peanut you/uthrow nana > uair/fair and there isn't anything you can do about it.

And all everyone says about bananas is "stay off the ground" which is obvious advice that just shows you guys need to learn Diddy has far more tools than you are giving him credit for.

If all Kirby can do is win on Brinstar then Kirby is at a disadvantage. Like it or not as Diddy I'm guaranteed 2 flat stages in a set and it is extremely rare I ever lose that first game. This also shouldn't take away from Diddy on other levels, because I think levels like Norfair/Mansion/PS2 are three of Diddy's best stages just after the obvious ones (ie Smashville/FD/PS1 and maybe lylat/BF depending on match up (against Kirby Lylat is good)).

I could say the same about a few things myself.

I've never lost to a diddy, ever. I always beat Canadian diddys (diddies?), though they aren't terribly well known (some names are pastaboy, SRTM, and Steb if you care) and some of them may have been a while ago.

Back at CH4 I 2 stocked NL in the single friendly we played. Again, a friendly, and an outdated match, but it's important to note who came out on top. Oh, and it was on FD.

For me the matchup seems more like a player thing. I think it's even or very close to it. Though in my (biased) opinion, it's a slight lean towards Kirby.

 

[MK26]

Should we just go ahead to Jigglypuff? D:

Rediscuss list:
G&W
Lucario
Diddy
Possibly ICs

 

[Falconv1.0]

I have nothing against AZ, but I really, REALLY ****ing hate it when people bring experience into the equation, I really do. If I played G&W and never lost to MK's, really good ones, does that mean MK has some really big disadvantage? No, it means I'm better.

Of course we all know that's a story because I suck balls at smash but that's beside the point.

 

[AlphaZealot]

This is true, it could simply be player experience. However, what is likewise true, is that if you believe Kirby > Diddy essentially just because Kirby can stay off the ground more than most characters then you are dead wrong.

I think part of my problem is I still don't really consider myself very good at Smash and so I view winning as my character probably doing more things then me.

 

[Lord Viper]

Viper: IIRC I beat you 2-0 and 2 stocked your Kirby (which was why you switched to Peach), I know I didn't lose because I was undefeated and is good).

☆ I didn't say you didn't beat me, I said I had an easy time with your Diddy, as in, I wasn't trying, (well, I always don't try). =P ☆

☆ But your right, as the meta game evolve so must the match up as well, back then Diddy's meta game wasn't as high as it was now. Every match up must at least have to be redone twice in a year, even if the tech's are the same. ☆

☆ Also, where are the Samus mains? That and do they even know were starting on their match up? ☆

 

[Falconv1.0]

☆ Also, where are the Samus mains? That and do they even know were starting on their match up? ☆

Almost all good Samus mains are super pessimistic to the max.

I love it.

 

[Xyro77]

Almost all good Samus mains are super pessimistic to the max.

I love it.

relax. im here. next time could you guys post your request in the character match-up board we have? im ryin to save you from an infraction.

but now about kirby, i know a decent amount about the match-up but theres a few things i need to clear up. im going to play GNESS today and hes a kirby main. after than i will be back to post a complete overview of samus vs kirby.

 

[Gnes]

Im back guys I might not get to play Xyro today...but weve played before(not recently)and i think ive pretty much got a hand of the matchup. 55-45 Samus favor *puts on flame-resistant armor*

I believe this cuz as you guys have pretty much figured out by now being a kirby main...kirby truly has no real reliable approach. This is especially apparent against samus who likes to keep characters at a distance from her until kill time. Kirby is light so unlike with most characters who normally live to OBSCENE amounts of percents against samus he wont live that long. Also before I dive into specifics...its pretty a well know fact that characters who have Up B OoS gives kirby a hard time *cough GTFO meta*

Hmm...okay...firstly...Zair ***** kirby...its range is godly...it auto-cancels...and combos into itself...BROKN...Lol but really its pretty well her godsent in the matchup. U could say well ill just powershield the zair. This would be okay with any other chr. but kirby is way to slow on the ground to keep this strategy up. Also, most good samus's like to mix missiles in with the zair...Theres no way ur gonna PS everything. Kirbys slow aerial movement really doesnt help him at all in this matchup...it seems like zair just zones in on him...but thats enough on that for now.

I dont like writing alot so to end id like to say kirby can kill samus pretty early considerin kirby has some powerful moves(fsmash,hammer,etc.). When hes in her zone he can pretty much **** as long as he stays wary of UpB. The problem is, Samus doesnt have to approach to win this matchup while kirby does. When kirby is forced to approach...bad things happen.

:3

 

[fromundaman]

Greatness, maybe it's something I've become good at from playing Ganon, but shieldwalking is actually very effective in this matchup. If I slowly walk towards you (and NEVER start a dash, as I need to be able to PS at any moment), then I can and do powershield almost all your Zairs. The only real annoyance/problem with this is that your Dtilt has quite a bit of shield knockback, meaning I more or less have to start over any time I miss powershielding a Dtilt.

Your UpB OoS can be annoying, that much is true, but it isn't too dangerous, especially since you can DI out of it to land before Samus does.

Also, we get easy gimps.

This isn't an easy matchup for either side, but personally I'd put it at 55-45 Kirby.



Also, Diddy is now much harder to gimp, since he can monkey hump>footstool Kirby if you try to intercept his recovery.

 

[Rhyme]

Also, we get easy gimps.

This isn't an easy matchup for either side, but personally I'd put it at 55-45 Kirby.

I did my best to skim, not read, through everything. This caught my eye.

According to my experience, Samus' Uair beats out Kirby's Dair. Either I need to play better Kirbies or you guys need a better gimp move than Dair. Also, Kirbies seem to like being airborn in this matchup, and I find that easy to deal with. Fair and Zair seem to outspace pretty much everything that Kirby can do. Dtilt kills Kirby very early. Nair and Dair seem to work better against Kirby off-stage than they do against most other characters. I find that Dair in particular is excellent for baiting Kirby's attacks, and that leads to punishment which Kirby cannot take too much of. Also, Kirby has no guaranteed damage with his throw combos. After about 20%, Samus' floatiness allows her to DI out of everything that he's got.

The two advantages that Kirby has in this matchup are his stature and his shield. I've never even come close to shield-poking a Kirby before because of his spot-dodges, perfect shielding, or physical ability to move and avoid my attacks. Also, Samus' projectiles don't work as effectively vs. him, and Zair starts to become predictable as there's no variation in the timing that will make it connect with Kirby. It's true that Kirby's Fsmash can KO Samus relatively early, but it's usually his easiest move to see coming once you've played a Kirby or two.

A patient Kirby will still give Samus trouble, though, because Samus' kill setups are no less predictable than Kirby's. I would rate this matchup as an even fifty-fifty, but maybe that's just me.

 

[A1lion835]

If our dair doesn't work, we can still use Inhale.

Yes, you read that right.

Since our inhale has grab armor, even in the air (and a reasonable amount of range below us, but it does have a rather large blindspot), we can eat you out of the uair, drop a bit if we're too high up, and then spit out. Samus is pretty much screwed from that position, her only hopes being to bomb jump up to the ledge (if that's even possible) or tether. If you tether, we still have a spot to dair you if we're high enough or bair/uair if we're level/slightly below you for a stagespike/knock away from stage. If you bomb jump, we can either hit you in your lag after laying a bomb or bait an up-b and punish.

However, since we have major onstage problems with Samus, I'd rate this 50-50 or maybe 51-49 Kirby.

 

[MK26]

relax. im here. next time could you guys post your request in the character match-up board we have? im ryin to save you from an infraction.

I did... :/

EDIT:

I'm assuming this is the matchup thread.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=195032
Kirby vs. Samus Matchup Discussion

It's a full guide, but the emphasis is on Samus' favourite moves and stage counterpicks/bans

See!

 

[Asdioh]

Asdioh would put it at something close to 500-0 Bananas so....

Yes.

You're right we should rethink IC because theres no way they have a 60-40 advantage on Kirby lol.

It's not 60-40, it's 65-35 >_>

Play an Ice Climbers (or 2-3, like I did) that can kill you 100% of the time they get a grab, and tell me what you think of the matchup. They weren't joking when they said Kirby was easy to chaingrab, wait until you watch the video of me getting 3-stocked by lain, I've never seen chaingrabbing that fast.

Note to everyone: do NOT moneymatch the best IC in the country if it's your first time EVER playing an IC main offline. Stupid idea.

im going to play GNESS today and hes a kirby main.

He's a Diddy main T_T

Also, Alphazealot, you beat me 3-0 a month ago, not 2-0. Learn2remember!

^ did I mention that AZ was the only person I lost to in pools this weekend? I beat a Lucario 2-0, a MK 2-0, a MK/G&W (who came in 4th in singles) 2-0, an Ice Climber 2-1, and lost to AZ 0-2. I seriously considered going Toon Link against AZ, but he plays QUIVO on a regular basis, and QUIVO's TL is far better than my own. I think

 

[momochuu]

^ You mentioned that last part many, many times.

Anyway, almost any character with a pretty good projectile (s) or a "hard to get around" long range move usually gives Kirby trouble. The bad thing is Samus has both (Missles, ZAir). 55-45 in Samus's favor.

 

[AlphaZealot]

3-0, whoops.

And yea, I think I can beat the best TL's in the country (which are either Quivo, Jash, or Santi). I haven't played Santi but I did a MM with Jash and lost 2-1, with each game having both of us over 150% or so (ie every game was last stock last hit). Quivo I've beaten 3-1 and 2-0 the last 2 times we've played in tournament (admittedly I think he is in a slump). I wouldn't bother trying TL, maybe some janky match up I don't have much experience with would work though, like...idk, pokemon trainer or something.

Kirby I always look at as having limited options against Diddy. I don't need to edge guard him (actually, as a player, I don't really edge guard ANYONE, lol) so that takes away suck up KO's/gimp hammer KO's/dair gimps. Recovery you just use monkey flip, which as you mentioned can also hump > foot stool inescapable. Rarely will Diddy need to Up-B against Kirby and if the Diddy is any good he will just space away from the edge so there isn't anything you can do to gimp him. Aside from that, Kirby's options are run up, shield, then grab, which is basically trumped completely by the existence of bananas. The other ground option obviously being dash attack, but Kirby's dash attack gets easily owned by shield grabbing. Coming from the air is just spaced Bairs and Dairs, Dairs get shield grabbed easy, bairs are the best option for kirby cause if you nick Diddy's shield its possible to land and get a grab. That said, peanuts/uthrown bananas/short hop banana toss work great against kirby, as does just predicting your jumps and hitting you with Fair/Uair. This is basically my assessment of the Kirby/Diddy match up. Kirby has to approach Diddy, which is the other important note, so Diddy can just work from if-then situations as I described above.

 

[fromundaman]

Rhyme, you make good points, but here's the problem:

The Kirbies you play must not know the matchup, as you described the typical way Kirbies play in general. This will not work on Samus. Against Samus we are forced to play very differently, that being slow shieldwalking until we get in range to do something.

Also, Uair does beat our Dair, but our Dair beats your UpB, meaning if we use it only when you HAVE to either bomb jump or UpB, you are screwed. We could also try to bait a Uair, then punish, but that's less safe.

Landing a KO is, as you mention, hard for both parties in this matchup. I usually end up killing at ridiculous percents from either gimps or Bairs (or even occasionally Ftilt...).




AZ, while I'm certain you are a better player than me and would wipe the floor with me, I really wish I could have gone to Wings&Brews to play you to get a better idea of the matchup. So far, Scribble's Diddy is the best one I've played, and here are the things I've found:

-There really is no reason for Kirby to approach Diddy. Peanuts are very easy to shield, and I'd much rather wait until you start chucking bananas and/or glide tossing at me to start (unless you have no bananas out, at which point relentless pressure and catching whatever bananas you do pull out before you do are best.) doing anything.

-Bananas are actually really easy for Kirby to grab, especially if they're on the ground.

-Diddy combos better than Kirby.

-Kirby kills much easier than Diddy.

-Diddy Fair is a ***** to get around, but it's definitely doable.

The main thing I see here is that Kirby gains control of the bananas about as easily as Diddy IMO, and that is bad for a character as momentum based as Diddy.

Personally I see it close to even, but here too you should be playing a very defensive Kirby (Which is part of the reason I think you lose so much against him Asdioh.).

 

[Gnes]

Rhyme, you make good points, but here's the problem:

The Kirbies you play must not know the matchup, as you described the typical way Kirbies play in general. This will not work on Samus. Against Samus we are forced to play very differently, that being slow shieldwalking until we get in range to do something.

Also, Uair does beat our Dair, but our Dair beats your UpB, meaning if we use it only when you HAVE to either bomb jump or UpB, you are screwed. We could also try to bait a Uair, then punish, but that's less safe.

Landing a KO is, as you mention, hard for both parties in this matchup. I usually end up killing at ridiculous percents from either gimps or Bairs (or even occasionally Ftilt...).




AZ, while I'm certain you are a better player than me and would wipe the floor with me, I really wish I could have gone to Wings&Brews to play you to get a better idea of the matchup. So far, Scribble's Diddy is the best one I've played, and here are the things I've found:

-There really is no reason for Kirby to approach Diddy. Peanuts are very easy to shield, and I'd much rather wait until you start chucking bananas and/or glide tossing at me to start (unless you have no bananas out, at which point relentless pressure and catching whatever bananas you do pull out before you do are best.) doing anything.

-Bananas are actually really easy for Kirby to grab, especially if they're on the ground.

-Diddy combos better than Kirby.

-Kirby kills much easier than Diddy.

-Diddy Fair is a ***** to get around, but it's definitely doable.

The main thing I see here is that Kirby gains control of the bananas about as easily as Diddy IMO, and that is bad for a character as momentum based as Diddy.

Personally I see it close to even, but here too you should be playing a very defensive Kirby (Which is part of the reason I think you lose so much against him Asdioh.).

Hmm...being both a kirby and diddy main at some point...i can definetly say that kirby has his work cut out for him in this matchup. A campy diddy will just outright destroy any style of kirby. Peanuts can ruin a kirbys aerial game...while Diddy is able to control the ground also. Bair works pretty well against diddy until he starts using his fair. Also...diddy's f-tilt is amazingly good in this matchup. It sucks that kirby has no glide toss nor any practical naner applications. I would say this matchup is like 60-40 diddy's favor.

At the last HOBO i went to...a kirby who was beating Ultimaterazer consistently in friendlies(they were friendlies lol but he was good)yet he couldn't touch me when we played.

 

[A1lion835]

I'd like to point out everyone can glide toss/pseudo glide toss. Here's how you do it with kirby/tl/anyone else without a glide toss.

1. Dash
2. Jump
3. Throw

This will make it look like you're glide tossing. The only negatives are that you don't get any invincibility and that you can trip (SAKURAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

 

[Rhyme]

Play an Ice Climbers (or 2-3, like I did) that can kill you 100% of the time they get a grab, and tell me what you think of the matchup.

I played Lain before CoT4, though only a couple of our matches were Kirby vs. ICs. Still, best I can tell, I'd say it's a 60-40 matchup in ICs favor. Kirby just needs to be VERY patient and play it safe, and it's pretty hard to grab him.

Against Samus we are forced to play very differently, that being slow shieldwalking until we get in range to do something.

Also, Uair does beat our Dair, but our Dair beats your UpB, meaning if we use it only when you HAVE to either bomb jump or UpB, you are screwed. We could also try to bait a Uair, then punish, but that's less safe.

Landing a KO is, as you mention, hard for both parties in this matchup. I usually end up killing at ridiculous percents from either gimps or Bairs (or even occasionally Ftilt...).

The only good Kirbies I've faced are Shadow (singles), Chu (doubles), and Doom (doubles and singles). All of them know how to play the character, but I'm pretty sure that only Doom is familiar with the matchup.

Samus has plenty of options to the point where she should never be in a position to worry about her upB being beaten out by Kirby's Dair. Either the Samuses you play are bad at recovering, or they're too busy doing risky **** to play smart. I'll give you inhale as a legit strategy either way, although I will say that I've only been inhaled to death once by a Kirby. Ever.

Lol. But we both agree that the matchup is even. Not even sure why I'm bothering to respond.

 

[fromundaman]

I played Lain before CoT4, though only a couple of our matches were Kirby vs. ICs. Still, best I can tell, I'd say it's a 60-40 matchup in ICs favor. Kirby just needs to be VERY patient and play it safe, and it's pretty hard to grab him.



The only good Kirbies I've faced are Shadow (singles), Chu (doubles), and Doom (doubles and singles). All of them know how to play the character, but I'm pretty sure that only Doom is familiar with the matchup.

Samus has plenty of options to the point where she should never be in a position to worry about her upB being beaten out by Kirby's Dair. Either the Samuses you play are bad at recovering, or they're too busy doing risky **** to play smart. I'll give you inhale as a legit strategy either way, although I will say that I've only been inhaled to death once by a Kirby. Ever.

Lol. But we both agree that the matchup is even. Not even sure why I'm bothering to respond.

Meh, I care more about what each character can do to each other than the actual ratio TBH.

I can't say I've legitimetly gimped Samus much (mainly because due to her weight and our KO moves, she's almost always in the top corners where she can safely bombo jump), but I was pointing that out in case it happens.
By legitimetly I mean at a point where something else could have killed. My friend's Samus tends to get a bit more reckless offstage after 150%, since just about anything will likely kill anyway (and mine honestly sucks, so I won't get into that).

Is there anything else we can add to this?

 

[SheerMadness]

Asdioh why are you letting IC grab you? If you play smart they have no reliable way to grab you.

Also I would say Kirby has a 65-35 advantage on Samus.

 

[momochuu]

Also I would say Kirby has a 65-35 advantage on Samus.

...Are you kidding me? -_-

Reasons?