The New Official Kirby Matchup Rankings AND GUIDE Thread! :: OMGOMGOMG! We're done!

[da K.I.D.]

hammer also does a decent job of momentum canceling.

kin, you are acting kinda dickly right now, tone down the tude son

its kirbys advantage, he has more solid moves. and kill earlier

 

[Kinzer]

Well, If somebody would've told me about the Hammer, I wouldn't be like this.

Seriously, all it takes is a logical answer to shut me up. NOW I know that it has uses (TBH, I forgot it even existed).

I'll grant that part, but *hmph* whatever.

I must be really bored again, the forum is dead, and nothing new is getting done.

 

[A1lion835]

Hammer is god. Air hammer is extremely awesome, ground hammer can be mixed in for very low damage kills.

 

[da K.I.D.]

1. Kirby should not be living to 180%

2. I recommend you play Malcolm or Espy, they are easily among the best Sonic users out there and would definitely help you learn more about Sonic and how to deal with him.

3. Unless you already played them whch makes that statement null.
I do think its in Kirby's advantage, primarily since his kill moves are better and because his aerial game is more solid.

1. dont make dumb blanket statements like this.

2. malcolm is in NYC espy is in san antonio, thats like saying that if you dont live in these two places, you cant say anything about the matchup...

not to mention, you make it sound easy to play them. its not

3. truth

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ I'm suprised no one, (or I didn't see), didn't say Kirby's grab realese on Sonic. Kirby doesn't need to just grab release Sonic after he uses his Up-B to make him unable to use his jumps or his B moves with his own grab, Kirby can use his Basic-B and walk off the stage after Sonic uses his Up-B. ☆

 

[da K.I.D.]

but that really doesnt happen to us much...

like at all.

seriously.

not trying to be mean, but that occurance even with the inhale is SUUUUUPER super rare

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ I guess that's the main reason no one said anything about it huh? It could be used as a suprise attack when Sonic come's back, though Sonic has many ways of comming back to the stage. ☆

 

[da K.I.D.]

yes

also, even though nobody but me does it, sonic has a guaranteed air grab release to fair on kirby

also, kirby dies to up throw at about 170 or so

 

[ShadowLink84]

1. dont make dumb blanket statements like this.

Its a fact.
You smash kirby at around 140% he is dead unless you degraded your kill moves.

2. malcolm is in NYC espy is in san antonio, thats like saying that if you dont live in these two places, you cant say anything about the matchup...

Wrong.
Way to misinterpret.
I said I recommend he plays Sonics that are already known to be really good. Especially considering malcolm has said he is traveling a bit.

Why are you always jumping to defend something when there is NOTHING to defend?

not to mention, you make it sound easy to play them. its not

Where did I say it was easy or ever made such a notion?
Seriously kid, bugger off you're just arguing for the sake of it.

3. truth

only when it agrees with you.

 

[da K.I.D.]

because every kirby is going to walk right into your smashes at the desired percent right?

its called avoiding kill moves, its part of teh reason fox is so bad

also, i dont think malcolm will be traveling to canada anytime soon, thats where percon is from.


lol bugger, didnt know you lived near DJ in aussieland

 

[Kinzer]

Just like Sonic won't be falling into any FSmash or hammers anytime soon huh KID?

We really out to take this back into the xat, or we will flood this place unecessarily.

Even though I still stand by my point that it is even *nod nod.*

 

[ShadowLink84]

because every kirby is going to walk right into your smashes at the desired percent right?

And every Sonic will run into a hammer and Fsmash at the desired percent m i rite?

its called avoiding kill moves, its part of teh reason fox is so bad

1.Sonic avoids kill moves more easily than other characters in the game.
2.Fox isn't bad because he can't land kill move,s he lands them quite well. The issue is tht the defensive nature of brawl is much stronger than Fox, who, while can punish, cannot opena hole defense. Way to fail.
3.I already told you stop dealing in absolutes.

also, i dont think malcolm will be traveling to canada anytime soon, thats where percon is from.

There are several smashers who have gone out of country to play in tournaments, especially since Malcolm is in the AN region.

in anycase what relevance does this have? I never said it would be easy so why do you continue to argue over something that was never stated in the first place?

lol bugger, didnt know you lived near DJ in aussieland

*shrug*
I would call you a boob but thats old fashioned.

 

[Kinzer]

Shadow, you're too slow buddy.

 

[Asdioh]

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/437/01/

wha-

random...

its called avoiding kill moves, its part of teh reason fox is so bad

WRONG.

Fox has FLAMEDASHING!!!!

Therefore Fox cannot be bad.

Shadow, you're too slow buddy.

Epic Sonic-on-Sonic battles going on here.

*insert that GIF of Michael Jackson eating popcorn here*

 

[SmileyStation]

what is the matchup numbers for Sonic again?

 

[Lord Viper]

what is the matchup numbers for Sonic again?

☆ Currently 60:40 Kirby. Some say it's 55:45 Kirby. That's all I see so far when it comes to numbers. ☆

 

[Kinzer]

Some are saying it's even BTW.

I'm not alone when I say that either, just in case anybody thinks it's only me.

 

[SmileyStation]

id go with 55:45 in my own experience. ive had my problems with him in the past but ive gotten a bit better since then. He still gives me trouble but if i pay attention to his actions in the air hes usually a well deserved win. What do the sonic boards have this matchup as?

 

[Kinzer]

Meh more or less 55:45 your advantage too.

... I guess...

I'm not going to let what little of bias I might have tell you that it might just be slightly in Kirby's advantage.

 

[SmileyStation]

you might as well knock urself out lol. Id like to hear any discussions youd have as well. Were not all flamers

 

[Kinzer]

Look back a few pages, it was Asdioh who even acknowledged everything that can be said already has been.

Perhaps it was my post, but I dunno. ^_^

 

[Browny]

so its about 2 calling 50-55 kirby, and everyone else says its a disadvantage to sonic.

just drop it kinzer lol its not gonna end up being called even no matter how much you push for it. maybe another time, but not for now

 

[SmileyStation]

I'm trying to help with some feedback with this matchup but im not really good with explaining things like this. But ill go ahead and tell a scenario that impacts my thinking of the sonic matchup. I played BOKU a while back or so and as you may or may not know hes very campy. Whether hes good or bad isnt up to me to say, but i did have problems playing his sonic. This was the first time in a while i realized how slow kirby was also. Well the end of the match was pretty anti-climatic i could say. I ended up losing the match to time. We were both at the last stock, but i was a bit higher. But after all was said and done i still couldnt figure out a way to catch this guy. I was gettin some small dmg in but i ended up on the losing side of the match. Now whether or not this was outdated information doesnt really matter. I couldnt "catch" him like i have with other sonic players. My reasoning for 55:45 is because if sonic is as campy as possible, kirby isnt fast enough to catch him. I don't think any1 is that patient as a sonic main. But if that situation were to arise. The match would be in sonic's favor, unless he was already losing.

 

[ShadowLink84]

wha-

random...

My computer saves up what I copy and paste and then deals it out like stale moves.
So if I Copy A then copy B.
When i paste it'll show B then A.

 

[choknater]

I think the matchup is about 65:55 Kirby

Spoiler

LMAO

Honestly though, this is a very hard matchup to judge in theory since I have never faced a great Sonic. Kirby has a priority advantage, but from what I know, Sonic has a priority disadvantage in MANY matchups so I'm sure Sonic has his ways to maneuver Kirby. Kirby has the superior edge game and the superior priority. This matchup could really go either way depending on the skill of the player... it won't be until we have solid evidence of tournament matches that we can really figure this one out.

Unless you guys have experience against Sonic...? (Sorry, I never read threads.)

In THEORY, I'd give this one to Kirby.

 

[SmileyStation]

id have to agree with that as well. It really does just depend on the sonic's experience with kirby. I still stand at 55:45 kirby. You cant necessarily say Kirby is easy to hit either. I think I'm done tho. Thats all i can really add to this matchup, If that even helped at all anyway :|

 

[choknater]

I changed my mind. I think this matchup is 75:65 Kirby.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Chok has the best matchup ratios.

 

[choknater]

Hm. I looked over the Peach section to see what you guys think...

Anyway, I just wanna say two things.

1. I believe Kirby has the advantage.
2. I believe Percon gives the most knowledgable advice in this entire thread. Does he still post here?

 

[ShadowLink84]

He posted on page 117 chok

 

[Dynamism?]

I need some advice on fighting Ness. Fought one today for a bunch of friendlies and I practiced 3 characters against him. I 2 stocked him regularly with Fox and Pikachu but for the most part he got me to the last stock at high % when I used Kirby.

It's apparently called neutral here, and I understand that from these matches today, but what's the best way for Kirby to fight Ness?

I noticed that camping on the ground was safest cause Ness is so priority full and damaging in the air, but passed the grabs, maybe a couple dtilts and ftilts for spacing and utilts when it's called for, how do you deal with generally high priority horizontal aerial characters.

Also applying this to Marth and so on. Fair > mah bair

 

[DFat2]

I need some advice on fighting Ness. Fought one today for a bunch of friendlies and I practiced 3 characters against him. I 2 stocked him regularly with Fox and Pikachu but for the most part he got me to the last stock at high % when I used Kirby.

It's apparently called neutral here, and I understand that from these matches today, but what's the best way for Kirby to fight Ness?

I noticed that camping on the ground was safest cause Ness is so priority full and damaging in the air, but passed the grabs, maybe a couple dtilts and ftilts for spacing and utilts when it's called for, how do you deal with generally high priority horizontal aerial characters.

Also applying this to Marth and so on. Fair > mah bair

This is the Match up thread. Use this thread to ask questions.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=171725&page=19
_____________________

I will also agree that Percon gives the most accurate info. But, I really can't call it anything since I haven't played a Half decent sonic yet.

 

[Kinzer]

I'm trying to help with some feedback with this matchup but im not really good with explaining things like this. But ill go ahead and tell a scenario that impacts my thinking of the sonic matchup. I played BOKU a while back or so and as you may or may not know hes very campy. Whether hes good or bad isnt up to me to say, but i did have problems playing his sonic. This was the first time in a while i realized how slow kirby was also. Well the end of the match was pretty anti-climatic i could say. I ended up losing the match to time. We were both at the last stock, but i was a bit higher. But after all was said and done i still couldnt figure out a way to catch this guy. I was gettin some small dmg in but i ended up on the losing side of the match. Now whether or not this was outdated information doesnt really matter. I couldnt "catch" him like i have with other sonic players. My reasoning for 55:45 is because if sonic is as campy as possible, kirby isnt fast enough to catch him. I don't think any1 is that patient as a sonic main. But if that situation were to arise. The match would be in sonic's favor, unless he was already losing.

I don't know about the others, but I know BOKU is the worst example of a good Sonic. You're right when you say he is extremely campy, but from what I saw on the AiB ladder when I fought him, it went down as ditto matches that I would've much rather have fought a MK than a boring Sonic. He also does not use Sonic to his full potential, he just has one style like RATS that once you figure him out he has nothing to work with. At least he shows you how Gay Sonic can be when and if it comes down to that, but he has no such thing as on offensive playstyle/approach. He wasn't alos too good of a sport when he lost to me, but meh I suppose I would be mad to if I kind of lost, and even more infuriated in a ditto match that is alays kind of suckish.

Also DJ, I guess it has to do with me being a little diehard for Sonic/I like to be precise with things/both, I hate having a range for ratios and rather one that is universal, but I guess you're right that it does not matter in the end seeing as how it's more or less the same thing.

 

[Percon]

Malcom was at CoT4 but I didn't get to play him... I got to play Blue, though (don't know how good you guys consider him, I played quite a few friendlies with him) and two other sonics who's names I don't remember.

About kill moves: If, say, Sonic always ran into Kirby's fsmash/hammer when in kill range and Kirby always ran into sonic's fsmash, Sonic would die faster. I might add that I believe it's easier for Kirby to punish Sonic upon landing (a very common time to land kill moves) than it for Sonic to do the same since kirby has multiple jumps. If both avoided each other's smash attacks/other predictable kill moves, then they need to rely on "emergency" kill moves. Kirby's emergency kill move (back air) is still an effective killer late in the stock, even if slightly stale. Correct me if I'm Sonic's emergency kill moves are back air and up throw. Up throw doesn't work until nearing or past 200, and back air is decent but highly telegraphed. Sonic has trouble killing, and I'm glad to see some sonic mains acknowledge that.

Oh, and those uairs I survived were when I was at the top of the screen. I don't know if it was stale but if it can't kill Kirby that high at that percent then I've lost all faith in it. It's not just me; many people I've spoken to talk about uair being not so hot. Not to mention there isn't a guarenteed way to land it, anyway. BTW, uair being able to go through bair doesn't seem like an enormous deal. I never said bair was unpunishable (almost nothing is); I just said it was hard for sonic to land a solid hit. If uair is Sonic's best (only?) answer to bair then it will become hightly predictable... and as I said, almost nothing is unpunishable.

I really don't think it's an even matchup. I see that sonic has some interesting tools and can find some success in the hands of a good player but isn't a tournament-winning character.

Oh, and I've got some advice against Ness, too, but I'm gonna wait until Ness discussion is official.

 

[da K.I.D.]

dont you play ayaz semi regularly as well?

Blue is good, hes just supersuper campy, which is kinda of an enigma in terms of general sonic playstyle.

up throw fresh should kill kirby at around 170 with DI, whereas, if your upthrow is the same as MKs, even though sonic is heavier, it will kill sonic at around the same %s

your description of the match seems to be very accurate

 

[Percon]

dont you play ayaz semi regularly as well?

Blue is good, hes just supersuper campy, which is kinda of an enigma in terms of general sonic playstyle.

up throw fresh should kill kirby at around 170 with DI, whereas, if your upthrow is the same as MKs, even though sonic is heavier, it will kill sonic at around the same %s

your description of the match seems to be very accurate

Ah, thanks for filling me in.

I do play Ayaz a lot (though not as much as I should)... he goes to my school . I don't know what you guys think of him either which is why I didn't mention him. Though he's never beaten my Kirby, the Kirby vs Sonic match doesn't actually happen that often when we play. It's usually falcon dittos >_>

EDIT: Even in the center of BF our upthrow is a pretty poor killer. Letting bair regenerate a bit is almost always a better option.

 

[da K.I.D.]

cus i just figured out that MKs upthrow kills about 20% earlier than ours, which was highly upsetting to me...

hes pretty good tho and playing him would give a pretty good description of the matchup

 

[ShadowLink84]

About kill moves: If, say, Sonic always ran into Kirby's fsmash/hammer when in kill range and Kirby always ran into sonic's fsmash, Sonic would die faster. I might add that I believe it's easier for Kirby to punish Sonic upon landing (a very common time to land kill moves) than it for Sonic to do the same since kirby has multiple jumps. If both avoided each other's smash attacks/other predictable kill moves, then they need to rely on "emergency" kill moves. Kirby's emergency kill move (back air) is still an effective killer late in the stock, even if slightly stale. Correct me if I'm Sonic's emergency kill moves are back air and up throw. Up throw doesn't work until nearing or past 200, and back air is decent but highly telegraphed. Sonic has trouble killing, and I'm glad to see some sonic mains acknowledge that.

of course, Kirby has more killing power, its just the circumstances of landing the kill move. I don't think Sonic will usually get killed upon landing primarily because he can usually get to the ground before Kirby and space himself away due to having higher movement speed.
Uthrow as Kid said, kills kirby at around 170% or pastit.

It can be very tough for Sonic to land a killing move overall, the fastest one is bair and that is telegraphed
Could I ask how unsafe Kirby is after using a kill move?
I know you can grab him but I was wondering if he could be smashed after a kill move was blocked.

For example if Kirby has his hammer shielded and Sonic attempted a stutter stepped Fsmash, would it land?

Oh, and those uairs I survived were when I was at the top of the screen. I don't know if it was stale but if it can't kill Kirby that high at that percent then I've lost all faith in it. It's not just me; many people I've spoken to talk about uair being not so hot. Not to mention there isn't a guarenteed way to land it, anyway. BTW, uair being able to go through bair doesn't seem like an enormous deal. I never said bair was unpunishable (almost nothing is); I just said it was hard for sonic to land a solid hit. If uair is Sonic's best (only?) answer to bair then it will become hightly predictable... and as I said, almost nothing is unpunishable.

Well the Uair covers more than just Kirby's bair and can be used for maintaining spacing aainst Kirby.

As for the uairs, I am guessing they must have been heavily staled for them not to kill at such a high percentage or, you DI'ed the first hit of the uair which won't kill easily because of its set knockback.
Its why most Sonic users initiate Uair early so that the second hit will land (and also cause its safer that way).

Sonic can use a utilt/Usmash but while the Utilt is faster than the Usmash, if he whiffs it, he'll get punished. Same for Usmash but he can DAC with it and avoid punishment a bit more easily.

I really don't think it's an even matchup. I see that sonic has some interesting tools and can find some success in the hands of a good player but isn't a tournament-winning character.

Meh, his viability as a character doesn't matter to the discussion. I do think Kirby has some advantage over Sonic, primarily because his killing moves are faster and stronger 9though unsafe).
I do think Kirby has an advantage I am just unsure on it being the difference of 60:40 of 55:45.

Kirby has a more solid aerial game and killing moves.
Sonic has an easier time spacing Kirby and of course, can punish and rack up damage.

 

[MysticKenji]

hi

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=192160

 

[MK26]

D: no more discussion happening

Ness GO!

Sonic is going down to 55-45