The New Official Kirby Matchup Rankings AND GUIDE Thread! :: OMGOMGOMG! We're done!

[kirbz]

ness: dont copy him.

 

[Asdioh]

50-50 last I knew.

I still think it's 50-50, but it's like 75-25 Ness's favor whenever I play against one.

His Fair is too good.

His KO options are way too good.

Other than that, just ... play him pretty normally. Smash DI out of his PK Fire, lest he run in and grab you and combo with Dthrow, or KO with his ******** Bthrow.

If he's trying to recover with PK Thunder, and you see it coming, quickly go in and take the hit of the PK Thunderbolt, easiest way to gimp him. You can't do that with Lucas since his projectile goes through characters.

Don't get spiked. Don't take him to Delfino, Pirate Ship, or Brinstar. T_T Viper...

Take him to.... a stage...
...
I don't even know. Frigate is probably a good choice, as is Rainbow Cruise. Japes is good too, if you can avoid the spike. Actually, not really, but it's not bad. I'm just imagining myself getting hit by Ness' Uair like I tend to do, and the high ceiling of Japes saving me. And then I'm imagining myself being at like 120%, and Ness tries to KO me with his back throw, but we're on the far end of Japes so I live :D

It's a pretty straightforward fight, really.

 

[Blue Flash]

I think its pretty even.

Ness can Yo-Yo Spike, and gimp recoveries with PK Thunder, so Kirby should try to recover as far away from Ness as possible. IIRC, Ness's Dair is a Meteor Smash. When Ness is recovering, try edgehogging or Stone. Don't use cutter on Ness, unless you want him to heal. Copying him is a bad idea too. It can serve as a good edgeguarder, but Kirby's good enough already. As someone stated before, Ness has better KO moves. I think Ness's bat can reflect the shockwave of FC. If Kirby uses Inhale, he should spit him offstage. Inhale is better than PK Pulse in this matchup.

Good counterpicks would be:

-Rainbow Cruise

-Jungle Japes

-Battlefield(choose at your own risk)

Do NOT choose:

-Final Destination

-Corneria

Just one question: Which has more priority, Kirby's Bair or Ness's Fair? If its the latter, Kirby's in trouble.

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ lol, I see Asdioh still remembers how good my Ness is. XD ☆

☆ I'll say this, Ness has great air time along with great projetiles to use a godly spike and a destructive grab. With this said, a good Ness is hard to deal with. He's pridictable to gimp, and if you get the chance to destory his PK Thunder, do it or you'll regret it. Lastly, don't stay in the air, if you face a Ness main that's good with PK Thunder, he will be a pain in the azz. But look at this, most of Ness very effective attacks have lag in them, which means Kirby wins the most speedest of strong attacks. Ok, I'll give my thinking rating, 50-50. ☆

Just one question: Which has more priority, Kirby's Bair or Ness's Fair?

☆ Sadly, Ness's F-Air by far. It's quick and have very little lag time when he hit's the ground using it. ☆

 

[Percon]

Summary later, but I don't think Japes is a good CP. His bthrow kills at a reasonable percent here and he can camp pretty well in the middle (pk thunder helps a lot on this stage). Though if we send him low his recovery gets owned.

Still, there are better stages to take him to.

 

[Asdioh]

I don't see anything wrong with choosing FD against Ness.

And what about Battlefield "at your own risk"

o_O

Both seem like decent stages against him.

 

[TechnoMonster]

60-40 Ness.

Kirby doesn't have any interesting gay **** here, and Ness has overall more priority and is faster, and his dash grab out of shield punishes almost all of your aerials, and a good Ness will always be able to find a solid angle to outpriorize your air game, or just space it and use another attack to punish. He's certainly gimpable, but that's at your own risk, because PKT2 is stupid buff. An interesting trick is to use rock to absorb the PKT hit, and he'll lag like a champ, and you can back-air for free, but a good Ness won't use that to KO.

Ness on the whole is pretty underrated, we have a kid out here who gives our top 5 a lot of trouble with him.

For counterpicks, Rainbow is easily your best, and he has an advantage on neutral stages due to better movement.

 

[§leepy God]

60-40 Ness.

Kirby doesn't have any interesting gay **** here, and Ness has overall more priority and is faster, and his dash grab out of shield punishes almost all of your aerials, and a good Ness will always be able to find a solid angle to outpriorize your air game, or just space it and use another attack to punish. He's certainly gimpable, but that's at your own risk, because PKT2 is stupid buff. An interesting trick is to use rock to absorb the PKT hit, and he'll lag like a champ, and you can back-air for free, but a good Ness won't use that to KO.

♪ Whoa there, your giving Ness too much credit and the poor little puff ball not enough. I don't see Ness having more priorities than Kirby that's for sure, I think it's pretty even at this point. Ness's strong attacks either have a little hit box, (Back Grab, Side Tilt, etc), or very laggy to hit Kirby with, (Bat, PK Flash, etc). I will say this, Ness's spike is uberly stronger than any of Kirby's spike attacks, but Kirby has too many methoids to escape the spike to the ground to combo or avoid getting hit period due to his air movements. Over all, Ness is a match up you have to focus to, but I can't see Ness having the over all advantage, I'll say 55:45 Kirby. †

 

[kirbz]

when ness recovers with pkthunder, bair the little string that follows the thunder ball.
IE: ---------------O
............^ use bair here

the bair will outprioritize it and the ness can't recover.

edit: where are the nesses?

another edit: i found some stuff on ness

In the first part of the fight, Kirby will most likely grab > f-throw > uair > if not grab > f-throw > grab > f-throw > uair. Is that even possible to pull off? No idea. That's what mosts Kirby's I've fought like to do when I'm at 0%. For his Final Cutter, if you're at a distance, just absorb the beam that fires out. I do believe Kirby is light, right? Juggle him with PKT. It's best to use the tail of PKT, too. If he decides to use his Stone, the tail will sustain him in the air. That's the part where you must figure out how to escape from getting hit. I usually hit myself away if it's possible.

When you're off the stage, Kirby's got many options of how to defeat you. He can use his Drill Kick, he can use his Stone above your PKT2 to avoid getting hurt in the process or he can suck you up and spit you out. Of course they usually like to use the Drill Kick or Hammer on you. Whatever the case, there is a way to work around these. Save your second jump. At least you can use uair, fair, nair, dair (if he's below you for some reason) or you can just simply air dodge. As for his Stone, that's difficult, but not very many Kirby mains use this one.

If he sucks you up, it's not impossible to escape it. Usually I end up footstooling Kirby when I escape and if necessary, I use PKT2. Does this Kirby just f-smash over and over again? If so, try to dair him. I'm not exactly sure that'll work, but it's worth a shot, I think. I've been lacking in the Kirby match up department lately, but there might be others that have greater ideas.

Watch for his fsmash. You probably won't be able to react to it, since the cue is so late into its startup. It kills pretty early, too.

If he sucks you up, he gets PK flash, which is clearly the most broken move in the game. When this happens, consider it a game loss. Also, he's wearing a hat.

His bair is almost as good as DDDs, so when recovering make it a priority to get to the edge or stage before he can set up an edgeguard.

The fthrow uair regrab is legit at low percents for most character to a certain percent. They'll try to finish it with something like reverse utilt to as many bairs as they can get away with. DI to escape it as soon as possible, but don't jump out too soon. If you think you can nair in time, do that instead.

 

[Levitas]

Camp with bair and don't let him usmash you. His aerial game < your bair from most angles. His aerial game is better than most of your groundgame.

KOs happen at similar times, but if Ness people know to run away when they get to high percents because your fsmash is slower than it seems, you might have some trouble KOing.

You have edgeguarding, but we'll recover with uair or fair. If you hit us away out of/after our DJ and play smart, we'll probably die.

 

[_clinton]

Levitas is always funny ^_^

♪ Whoa there, your giving Ness too much credit and the poor little puff ball not enough. I don't see Ness having more priorities than Kirby that's for sure, I think it's pretty even at this point. Ness's strong attacks either have a little hit box, (Back Grab, Side Tilt, etc), or very laggy to hit Kirby with, (Bat, PK Flash, etc). I will say this, Ness's spike is uberly stronger than any of Kirby's spike attacks, but Kirby has too many methoids to escape the spike to the ground to combo or avoid getting hit period due to his air movements. Over all, Ness is a match up you have to focus to, but I can't see Ness having the over all advantage, I'll say 55:45 Kirby. †

Ftilt is hardly one of Ness' strong attacks...the move comes out on frame 7 and has less overall reach than D3's standing grab

Ness' normal grab may have reach issues (although I don't have much of an issue with it), but his pivot and dash grab are both good...

The bat is a punishment move and really wouldn't be my 1st choice to KO with...and PK Flash is more of a mind game move...

Ness has semi set ups for his spike if he is edge guarding (watch out for PK Fire, and Fair for example)

Besides that do note that the Dair has other things about it even the sour spot is great (low angle knockback) and if there is a move that will KO you at 0% it is Dair

Ness has punishment options for those that spot dodge/roll too much (Dair, the yoyo, hell the bat)

Ness can throw out 2 Nair's in a single short hop...he can also throw out a Bair to Uair (fun fact Bair and Uair are KO moves) in a hop as well...

Edge guarding wise...Ness' recovery isn't set in stone...his air movement is good...his 2nd jump actually gives him more horizontal range than some of the other recoveries in this game as well...
His magnet can stall as well as change his location a bit...and PKT takes about the same amount of time to use (and can vary) as Fire Fox/Fire Bird (so that is an issue but to be fair...Fire Fox and Fire Bird aren't 40% KO moves)

Still...Kirby>Ness in edge guarding for this match

 

[AvariceX]

♪ Whoa there, your giving Ness too much credit and the poor little puff ball not enough. I don't see Ness having more priorities than Kirby that's for sure, I think it's pretty even at this point. Ness's strong attacks either have a little hit box, (Back Grab, Side Tilt, etc), or very laggy to hit Kirby with, (Bat, PK Flash, etc). I will say this, Ness's spike is uberly stronger than any of Kirby's spike attacks, but Kirby has too many methoids to escape the spike to the ground to combo or avoid getting hit period due to his air movements. Over all, Ness is a match up you have to focus to, but I can't see Ness having the over all advantage, I'll say 55:45 Kirby. †

Other than bthrow, those aren't our reliable kill moves. Bthrow, uair, nair, dair, and to a lesser extent bair, fsmash and pkt2 are the kill moves to watch for. Ness' fsmash actually seems more effective here than most matchups, I don't know why, that's just my experience with it. Your stone drop is going to be your friend in this match (just don't let us grab you out of it). Stone drop is your best edgeguard against pkt2 and it's good for punishing us when we go for a uair kill (Ness' uair is really, really good).

When you aren't at kill %'s expect a lot of retreated fairs, pk fires, and dair walls. PK fire is safer than usual in this match because Kirby doesn't have anything with enough reach and speed to punish a shielded pk fire if properly spaced. If we grab you at low %'s it will be for a fthrow to get you away from us for some PKT camping. Uthrow is usually a little better, but stone drop eliminates that option. Dthrow is subpar, and bthrow won't be used until we go for a kill.

Basically; play agressive, try to keep us on the ground because we beat you in the air, avoid getting grabbed (at all %'s, not just kill %'s), and avoid the uair at kill %'s. Also our best edgeguards vs you are probably nair off-stage, maybe dair, and trying for a PKT stage spike; so watch for those.

I think it's either very slight advantage for Ness, or even.

 

[_clinton]

At low % with that grab and follow up options Kirby has...I would avoid being careless with Ness' laggy moves...just saying...

Speed wise...I think Fair is slower than Kirby's Bair...but Ness' Nair is faster than it...

Oh and I like RC with Ness...really...go YI Brawl...our recovery becomes easier to read (ever been gimped by a fly guy or that ghost platform?) and the uneven ground screws with good use of PK Fire to a point...

 

[Lovely]

♪ When I play my Samus vs Ness, I always hated that match up... Sleepy. T_T

♪ But with Kirby, I feel more comfortable to fight Ness because of Kirby's air time. My thought's is Kirby vs Ness is even.

 

[_clinton]

♪ When I play my Samus vs Ness, I always hated that match up... Sleepy. T_T

♪ But with Kirby, I feel more comfortable to fight Ness because of Kirby's air time. My thought's is Kirby vs Ness is even.

Well to be fair, Ness is a small target somewhat...

 

[ColinJF]

when ness recovers with pkthunder, bair the little string that follows the thunder ball.
IE: ---------------O
............^ use bair here

the bair will outprioritize it and the ness can't recover.

The tail of pk thunder doesn't have hurtboxes.

 

[Lord Viper]

The tail of pk thunder doesn't have hurtboxes.

☆ This is true. Only the head of the PK Thunder can be destroyed. But this is only effective when Ness camp's you with it and not when he uses it for himself, that's self suicide. ☆

 

[_clinton]

☆ This is true. Only the head of the PK Thunder can be destroyed. But this is only effective when Ness camp's you with it and not when he uses it for himself, that's self suicide. ☆

Ness camps with PK Thunder?

Anyway...I like how people don't respect the thunder...

Public Service Announcement: 100% of Brawlers that don’t respect the Thundah! are liable to be struck by it. The moment in which you are stunned, convulsing in mid-air, just before you are sent off to your stock’s final resting place, it is a time for you to reflect upon your mistake. Respect the thunder.

 

[IC3R]

Ness camps with PK Thunder?

IIRC, Colin is famous for it...

Anyway...I like how people don't respect the thunder...

You like it? PKT2 kills Kirby at like ~40%, so yeah

 

[☆_Mutha-Foxin GangstaKirby_☆]

You like it? PKT2 kills Kirby at like ~40%, so yeah

._. im pretty sure its higher than 40% unless u di in a way that helps the k.o.


also ness isnt that hard to beat with kirby, then again i only know like 1 good ness player

asdioh i agree ness bthrow is retardedly brokeded

but nesses floatiness makes recovery is easy to gimp with kirby, lol drill kick spam vs. airdodge who will win?

 

[Lord Viper]

Ness camps with PK Thunder?

☆ You can, I do this all the time when my foe's in the air, if you camp when your foe's on the ground, then you are asking to get F-Smash or Side-B'd because it take's time to regain consciousness when he uses it. ☆

IIRC, Colin is famous for it...

☆ I do this to, just that nobody know's I do it because I don't go to as many tourney's as they do. D= ☆

 

[_clinton]

☆ You can, I do this all the time when my foe's in the air, if you camp when your foe's on the ground, then you are asking to get F-Smash or Side-B'd because it take's time to regain consciousness when he uses it. ☆

I think people misread my post a bit...

I'm thinking of a different idea when it comes to camping I guess...

 

[MK26]

D: all the mother boys suck at discussing matchups

And because I can, Samus GOGOGO!

 

[A1lion835]

Alright...copy Samus' power, because it's lower to to ground, and Samus doesn't have a reflector. *imagines samus doing a shine*

 

[IC3R]

F-Throw -> Charge Beam ftw

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ Though I belive that Zero Suit Samus does not have the advantage over Kirby, (AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO SEE'S THIS!!!), I'll say that I use to think that Samus kind of beat's Kirby because she has a lot of attack range and weird recovery, but after a while, I think Kirby is almost even with Samus, but a little in Samus hands more like 45-55 Samus. ☆

 

[fromundaman]

Wait wait wait... How exactly do you see this in Samus' hands?

Let's list Samus' basic playstyle:

-Missle spam and Zairs.
-SH Dair>Fsmash
-Dtilt for the kill
-Charge shot to punish spot dodges
-UpB OoS


Now here's the thing: Most of this is very easily power shielded once you get used to the matchup.
Once you're inside (by shieldwalking usually. You kind of have to be patient here. Basically, approach like Ganon would >.< ), tilts are the way to go, as they are generally faster than most of her moves.

The main thing to watch out for in this matchup is that **** Dtilt.

 

[kirbz]

F-Throw -> Charge Beam ftw

d-tilt trip should work too i think...

 

[§leepy God]

♪ Wow, you guys are done with Ness? I thought it was getting started. O_o †

♪ I guess I'll take it you have your answers. I'll be back for Her Majesty Jigglypuff. :3 †

 

[DFat2]

Hey Maestro, I hope you don't find this weird or anything, but I think you should Re-Discuss G@W. I went back and read all the pages where you discussed him and I failed to see not even 1 G@W main. Not one.

I think we should re-discuss it and bring in some G@W mains to have the discussion going both ways. Not just us going on how they Raep us.

 

[Lord Viper]

Wait wait wait... How exactly do you see this in Samus' hands?

☆ I don't know, maybe I play too much Samus on Melee when I fought my brother and he's really good. I guess it's a diffrent case when it come's to Brawl, but like I said before, the range of her attacks is very wide, and she as a wierd recovery so you need to focus when you gimp her. It could be in Kirby's hands, I'm not too fimiler with the Brawl Samus, maybe I have to find an offline Samus, but where could I find one? ☆

♪ Wow, you guys are done with Ness? I thought it was getting started. O_o †

♪ I guess I'll take it you have your answers. I'll be back for Her Majesty Jigglypuff. :3 †

☆ I guess there's not a lot of Ness mains to do the match up, or we haven't told them we were starting on them. And of course, I hate your Jigglypuff almost as much as I hate Brawling your Ness. D=< ☆

 

[fromundaman]

Dfat1 makes a good point.

Ahhh... Actually, Brawl Samus's recovery is much more limited since she can't attack out of the bomb jump, leaving her very vulnerable.

Also, she does force a very different approach. This is an annoying matchup, and you have to proceed cautiously/slowly, but once you get the hang of it, I don't think Samus has the upper hand. Here's some tips though:

-Don't approach from the air. Our airspeed is too slow to get through there.
-Learn to powershield. Seriously, my powershielding improved drastically from playing this matchup.
-Approach by slowly walking up to her and shielding/powershielding everything.
-Watch out for that Dtilt! No seriously, that moves hurts... badly. It's her best KO move, has great range, and it launches us upwards for a vertical KO, which isn't where we want to be.

 

[Lovely]

♪ I know this match up very well since I main Samus as well as Kirby, I'll bring more info later.

 

[Percon]

I guess I missed Ness... oh well, I don't know the matchup too well anyway.

Uh... lessee... Samus, eh?

Samus is not a very good character. She's more annoying than anything. I say advantage for Kirby.

Her spike is her deadliest move, especially in this matchup. It's really good and has a wide ark; it's really easy for her to hit us with it.

Uh.. more later. I promise this time.

 

[MK26]

Hey Maestro, I hope you don't find this weird or anything, but I think you should Re-Discuss G@W. I went back and read all the pages where you discussed him and I failed to see not even 1 G@W main. Not one.

I think we should re-discuss it and bring in some G@W mains to have the discussion going both ways. Not just us going on how they Raep us.

If we have a rediscussion (hopefully after a hiatus so I can finish the matchup summaries), the first character we do will be G&W.

And if you all want, we can go back to Ness...there just was no discussion

 

[Ravin]

Kirby Wins this one. considering a few things, its 40 - 60 Kirby.

1. Overall Kill power. Samus is limited in kill moves.
2. Your drill attack Eats her Up B for some unknown god forsaken reason :/
3. She cannot spike you. Samus relies heavily upon Spiking to kill early enough.
4. Samus floats. This gives you a better chance to keep her in the air and above you and or offstage. (Samus being above you is a huge advantage.) Typically this is a good thing for Samus, but due to the fact its kirby, the whole ballgame is turned around.
5. Stealing her charged shot ability also gives you long range. Granted, her Zair is something to fear, but you can duck it, and punch oncoming missiles or power shield them, whatever tickles your fancy.
6. I /think/ you grab hit Fthrow to Uair to Fthrow works better on her because of her float?

Recommend CP - JJ or Luigi Mansion. These two stages elminate her kill moves.

Things to look out for

1. oncoming stream of missile and Zairs. (Learn to Power shield )
2. Even though Samus has a lot of bad things about her, an experienced Samus main will suddenly have you in a combo (IN brawl? LOLWUT?) and you will find yourself sitting at 60-80% Damage in the matter of seconds.
3. Up B out of Shield. Just be aware that a Samus in trouble will try to use this as MUCH as possible to get away from you.
4. Platforms. Samus with Platforms can be godlike, considering Utilt is one of her better killing moves, on BF it reaches just enough to give you the boot.
5. Zair --> Charged shot. It hurts....
6. Jab Locking.
7. Dair. Even though you have the advantage offstage, Do not get ahead of yourself, Samus's Dair ALWAYS sweetspots, the whole thing. So there is no (It hit me late and still got me) You will feel it.
8. All of her Air moves AC (Auto Cancel)

Recommend Ban - BF and FD. BF maybe small, but it allows Samus to utilize the edge and the platforms. this gives her the abiility to Spam, Retreat, Combo, and use Up B to hit you. FD for Easy spamming and camping.

♪ I know this match up very well since I main Samus as well as Kirby, I'll bring more info later.

<____________< I have NEVER seen you post in the Samus threads at all.

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ Wow, I guess I was over estmating Samus in this match up. I always thought that Samus has the upper hand on Kirby... I guess I'll trust your words so far Ravin. I have to find a good Samus main near where I live, if there are any in MI. ☆

♪ I know this match up very well since I main Samus as well as Kirby, I'll bring more info later.

☆ Aww, I wanted to hear what you would say. Anyways, when you come back in the US, why don't I Brawl your Samus, it's been a while and I know your still good with her. ☆

 

[DFat2]

If we have a rediscussion (hopefully after a hiatus so I can finish the matchup summaries), the first character we do will be G&W.

Thank You Veeery Much.

Samus Vs. Kirby eh? Since the Only Samus that I've fought that play's at tournament Level only Ledge Camps, I can't really say that much. I know that if The Samus Ledge Camps you, you could have trouble. *Reads that D-air goes through UpB* Never mind. Yeah, it really is Bad for Samus.

I don't know, when I face a Really Really Really Good Samus, I can help but Since I haven't played one that Good, I can't say for now so I'm outta this discussion.

 

[fromundaman]

I'd say Samus' main advantage in this matchup is that almost no Kirby mains seem to know this matchup, which can lead to being overwhelmed by the oncoming barrage of missiles and Zairs when you do face one.

 

[A1lion835]

Combo starter>charge shot is way too good, but I think we all knew that already.