Bob Jane T-Mart
Smash Ace
Shouldn't King Dedede's be there, It has massive knock-back and reasonable damage, unfortunately it has a bit of lag at the end. Anyway just a suggestion.Dash
1. Snake
2. Ganondorf
3. Diddy Kong
4. Ivysaur
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Shouldn't King Dedede's be there, It has massive knock-back and reasonable damage, unfortunately it has a bit of lag at the end. Anyway just a suggestion.Dash
1. Snake
2. Ganondorf
3. Diddy Kong
4. Ivysaur
What. Where's Ganondorf's dair?Dair
1. Meta Knight
2. Lucario
3. Peach
4. Wario
5. Game and Watch
6. Falco
7. Yoshi
8. Fox
9. Ness
10.
Worst.
About Wario's down special:U can have comments
oh and why is luigi's jab even on the list? It can combo into upb, yes, but so can almost every jab in the game. It really isn't anything special, and if jab>upb is effective, you can be sure that thats because of luigi's upb, not because of the jab. oh and put kirby's on, it works great for edgegaurding and it one of the hardest to punish in the gameZSS Down-B: Wario's is used every 2 mins or so, and its quite useless before it is charged to around 1:30, wolf's has reflection and invincibility? ZSS's has recovery, invincibility, footstooling, spiking, powerful sex-kick, and walljumping, all in one move. ROB's gyro is also just a projectile item, and a smart opponent can use it against ROB. or just shield and it disappears.
I fail to see what any of those have over ZSS
wario's does max knockback after 55 seconds, so youll porbably get to use it at least twice. It probably has the best speed( not counting charging) to power ratio of any move in the game (kills at like 60%)
You, sir, definitely know what you're talking about. yoshis uair is good, nut I cant see it above that many on the list (there are alot of good uairs) and I think yoshis standing grab is the worst since it comes out about as fast as samus's and has no range. Everything else I COMPLETELY aggree withOK, here's where I think some of Yoshi's moves should be:
Yoshi should be #10 for jabs. It's extremely fast and you can lead into another move mid-jab (such as Yoshi Bomb). It has good range, too.
Yoshi should be around #8 or #9 for up-smash. It's has good knockback, and counters like 90% of the aerials in the game. It's quick and has nice range, too.
Yoshi's n-air should definitely be on that list, but I'm not sure where. It comes out extremely quickly, so it's a combo-breaker. It has enough knockback to kill at higher percentages, and it's like the perfect move for gimping.
Yoshi's d-air shouldn't be on that list. Yes, it's good for gimping and damage-racking, but it's SLOW. I'd put it at like #14 or so, but not #7.
Yoshi's u-air should be like #4 or #5. It comes out in five frames, beats out many d-airs, and can easily kill at 110%. Heck, if timed right, you can even go through Mr. Game & Watch's d-air with it. It is also a good attack to use while ledge-hopping.
I'm not sure who's standing grab is the worst: Yoshi's, Zero Suit Samus', Samus', Link's, or Toon Link's. =/
Yoshi should put Yoshi on like #3 for dash-grab. It has the second longest grab-range in the game, and it comes out at a decent speed. Oh, and it is also used for Yoshi's chain-grabs, so it is extremely vital to him for that.
Yoshi's grab pummel is good, but I'm not sure if it is Top 10 material. He would be using it a lot, though, especially during chain-grabs.
I'd still put him behind lucario, but yeah, agreedi think squirtle has one of the best jabs honestly, if not the best
well 3rd behind snake and ike imo
Sheik's Nair comes out in about 3 frames like most Nair sex kicks and most sex kicks have little to no lag; Sheik's Nair is ok, but it's nothing special.i think sheiks nair should 4-5 , it comes frame two, good range moderate knockback, low lag, last like a sex kick, whats not to like.
Thought that one would be obvious, lol. I also think Samus has a decent Bair, its powerful, and it can be used 2x in her short hop, maybe 9 or so?Zair
1. Samus
Worst. Everyone else
I think you're missing the point. If we are going to select a certain attack, we should break it down into various parts. I will give you a few examples. If we were to ask who uses less frames to perform the d-tilt, Zelda would be above Samus, since Zelda's d-tilt is six frames, while Samus' is seven. If we were to be on the same topic, but asking whose d-tilt has better range, Samus' would beat Zelda's. If we were to be on the same topic, but this time asking whose d-tilt can KO, we all would know that Samus' d-tilt would beat Zelda's. Thus, for breaking down the d-tilt, we should ask about frames, range, KO potential, &c, and not simply asking who has a better d-tilt simply because of the range it offers.while samus' can KO, its hardly a threatening attack as it is not overly quick, and quite punishable
in case you missed it...Uthrow kill list:
Up-throws:
Olimar: 125 (Blue)
Ivysaur: 133 (184 fatigued)
ROB: 144
Link: 147
Squirtle: 148 (203 fatigued; d-throw, 166 fatigued)
Kirby: 150
Meta-Knight: 156
Zelda: 162
Luigi: 168
Mario: 169
Pit: 178
Ness: 178
Toon Link: 184
Ganondorf: 198
Zamus: 198
Falcon: 208
DK: 209
Samus: 212
Wario: 216
DeDeDe: 217
Diddy: 224
Wolf: 225
as an FYI
Jab
1. Ike
2. Snake
3. Lucario
4. Pit
5. Falco
6. Luigi
7.
8. Captain Falcon
9. Peach
10.
Worst.
id put lucario beneath pit + falco
Dash
1. Snake
2. Ganondorf
3. Diddy Kong
4. Ivysaur
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
Worst.
Sonic for #5 then, since no other characters DA really stands out and it goes furhter than MK's. its also one of the fastest DA's (ive got it at 4 frames)
Ftilt
1. Snake
2. Shiek
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8. Ike
9.
10.
Worst.
Wolfs is pretty good. maybe 4/5th imo
Dtilt
1. Meta Knight
2. Game and Watch
3. Donkey Kong
4. Marth
5. Ganondorf
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
Worst. Mario
Lucas' has to be here for its comedic value. Lucarios is pretty good though, definitely above average i dont know where id put it relative to those 5, but anywhere in top 10 is good
Utilt
1. Snake
2. Fox
3. King Dedede
4.
5. Peach
6. Pit
7.
8.
9.
10.
Worst. Ganondorf
Snakes utilt should occupy the first 4 spots, for when its been staled 1,2,3 times respectively, its still the best one.
Fsmash
1. Wario
2. Game and Watch
3. Kirby
4. Pit
5. Lucas
6. Luigi
7. Lucario
8. Donkey Kong
9.
10.
Worst.
I wont allow this! kirbs must be #1. id glady trade G&W only slighly more KO power and lingering hitbox for kirbys insane speed and range. and i dont see what makes warios so great. its one of the most punishable smashes in the whole game. still top 5 material though.
Dsmash
1. Meta Knight
2. Game and Watch
3. Zero Suit Samus
4. ROB
5. Wolf
6. Zelda
7.
8. Pikachu
9.
10.
Worst. Jigglypuff
Pikachus is now horribad. id say his utilt is more useful lol
Usmash
1. Fox
2. Snake
3. Olimar
4. Zelda
5. Ike
6.
7.
8. Peach
9. Donkey Kong
10. Marth
Worst. Charizard
... Ike on the list, and chairzard as worst? zomgwtf. jiggs for worst maybe? idk lucas lol
Nair
1. Luigi
2. Meta Knight
3. ROB
4.
5.
6. Ike
7. Lucas
8.
9.
10.
Worst.
G&W for #4
Fair
1. Marth
2. Meta Knight
3. Ness
4. Lucario
5. Peach
6. Ike
7. Wolf
8.
9.
10. Pikachu
Worst.
Pikas fair isnt that great :/ id say kirbs is better, at least.
Dair
1. Meta Knight
2. Lucario
3. Peach
4. Wario
5. Game and Watch
6. Falco
7. Yoshi
8. Fox
9. Ness
10.
Worst.
Sheik for worst dair. i think ZSS has a landing hitbox at least?
Uair
1. Meta Knight
2. Olimar
3. Ganondorf
4. Wario
5.
6.
7. King Dedede
8.
9. Sonic
10.
Worst. Charizard
Falcon in 5-6 maybe? I think lucas has possibly the worst uair. Really bad KO potential and almost every other character has a more damaging uair anyway if its not a KO move
Bair
1. Game and Watch
2. Donkey Kong
3. King Dedede
4. Wolf
5. Kirby
6. Yoshi
7. ROB
8. Pit
9. Luigi
10. Marth
Worst. Pikachu
Neutral Special
1. Meta Knight
2. Snake
3. Falco
4. Lucario
5. Pit
6. ROB
7. Wario
8. Donkey Kong
9. Wolf
10.
Worst. Lucas/Ganondorf
Forward/Side/Over Special
1. Marth
2. Olimar
3. Zero Suit Samus
4. Mario
5. King Dedede
6. Charizard
7. Ganondorf
8. Bowser
9. Lucas
10. Jigglypuff
Worst.
Why isnt rocksmash up the top. and cape has nothing on all of those side b's lol.
Down Special
1. Diddy Kong
2. Pikachu
3. Wario
4. Wolf
5. ROB
6. Ice Climbers
7. Zero Suit Samus
8. Donkey Kong
9. Sonic
10.
Worst.
Up Special
1. Meta Knight
2. Pikachu
3. ROB
4. Marth
5. Ice Climbers
6. Game and Watch
7. Sonic
8. Bowser
9. Luigi
10. Pit
Worst. Jigglypuff
why is IC's there? Sure it does like 25%, but then DK's grounded up can do that too, and its not massively succeptible to edgehoggers either. for recovery purposes its not that great and all those characters have better Up's as gtfo moves. also lol @ pit, he doesnt even need it to recover most of the time, its generally a last resort since its so bad.
Standing Grab (Actual grab, not the throw)
1. Olimar
2. Charizard
3. King Dedede
4. Squirtle
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
Worst.
Dash Grab (Actual grab, not the throw)
1. Ness
2. Meta Knight
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
Worst. Bowser
I heard CF has a good running grab. Anyway there was a thread somewhere, in the ness boards i think with frame data for runnig grabs you should check that. Sonic is high up there
Pivot Grab
1. Olimar
2. Yoshi
3. King Dedede
4. Lucas
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
Fthrow
1. Donkey Kong
2. Kirby
3. Ganondorf
4. Pikachu
5. Pit
6.
7. Ness
8.
9.
10.
Worst.
Dthrow
1. King Dedede
2. Falco
3. Game and Watch
4. Snake
5. Olimar
6. Sonic
7. Yoshi
8. Peach
9. Pikachu
10. Luigi
Worst.
Uthrow
1. Olimar
2. Meta Knight
3. Sonic
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
Worst.
Bthrow
1. Ness
2. King Dedede
3. Olimar
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
Worst.
Pummel
1. Lucas
2. Olimar
3. Lucario
4. Mario
5. Luigi
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
Worst. Samus.
Sonic has to be #3 for pummels for reasons stated multiple times in this thread
YYou forgot Marth's Up Throw which kills at like between Toon Link and Ganon.Uthrow kill list:
Up-throws:
Olimar: 125 (Blue)
Ivysaur: 133 (184 fatigued)
ROB: 144
Link: 147
Squirtle: 148 (203 fatigued; d-throw, 166 fatigued)
Kirby: 150
Meta-Knight: 156
Zelda: 162
Luigi: 168
Mario: 169
Pit: 178
Ness: 178
Toon Link: 184
Ganondorf: 198
Zamus: 198
Falcon: 208
DK: 209
Samus: 212
Wario: 216
DeDeDe: 217
Diddy: 224
Wolf: 225
as an FYI
i agree, and falcons jabs are probaly one of the best, and falco's too.Captain Falcon's Fair is awesome, it should be first.
---
You should put the obvious like MK Down Smash, MK Dash Grab, MK Neutral B, MK Up-B, MK Fair, MK D-tilt, MK Dair, MK Uair and stuff
you cna haz moar commentzNow the old one ended... Very strangely... >_>
So let's start fresh, basically this list will be a 1-10 ranking of each type of move. Now I don't know that much about all the characters so I am going to save myself from the embarrassment of posting all wrong lists, and leave them blank for now. But with your help I can fill them in.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jab
1. Ike
2. Snake
3. Squirtle
4. Pit
5. Falco
6. Lucario
7. Luigi
8. Yoshi
9. Captain Falcon
10. Peach
Worst.
jiigs for worst jab, and the list looks good, but I'd put lucario above falco just because of lucarios godly( for a jab) hitstun that allows you to actually COMBO out of it. put captain falcon in luigi's spot, and make luigi GTFO, since his jab sucks in comparison to those others. heck, marios is better. UPB SHOULDN"T BE A FACTOR!
Dash
1. Snake
2. Ganondorf
3. Diddy Kong
4. Ivysaur (should be-zamus)
5. King Dedede (should be sonic)
6. Game and Watch(should be MK)
7. Sonic
8. Meta Knight
9.
10.
Worst.
luigi for sure
Ftilt
1. Snake
2. Shiek
3. Ike
4. Wolf
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
Worst.
Make wolf GTFO, Add rob for 3rd. ITS AMZING. then MK
Dtilt
1. Meta Knight
2. Game and Watch
3. Donkey Kong
4. Marth
5. Ganondorf 0.o NO????? easily rob, comeout frame 3, trips comboes into itself...ganons is worst in every way compared to samus's and others, and WTF is charizards??
6. Snake
7. Samus
8. Lucas no they're are Many better ones, included ness's >_>
9.
10.
Worst. Mario
Utilt no problems here but both kirby and lucario should be above mario, and maybe put ike on?
1. Snake
2. Fox
3. King Dedede
4. Peach
5. Pit
6. Mario
7. Kirby
8.
9.
10.
Worst. Ganondorf
Fsmash
1. Kirby
2. Game and Watch
3. Wario
4. Pit (pits is unique... its the only one here than can be used affectively as a punisher is hardto be punished as well probably the hardest fsmash to punish in the game. On top of that, its also the fastest in the game and does a whopping 19 damage with respectable range and kill power. PLEASE PUT IT HIGHER! marth for 10. BTW)
5. Luigi
6. Lucas (above luigi)
7. Lucario
8. Donkey Kong
9.
10.
Worst.
Dsmash
1. Meta Knight
2. Game and Watch
3. Zero Suit Samus
4. ROB
5. Wolf
6. Zelda (put shiek here, its just as fast but much harder to punish and does more knockback, at least put it above zelda, and possible wolf and ROB)
7. Ice Climbers
8. Olimar doesn't seem right...tlink and DK and Boozers are all better IMO)
9.
10.
Worst. Jigglypuff
Usmash
1. Fox
2. Snake
3. Olimar
4. Zelda
5. Peach (all of these down more, ike up, put on game and watch and charizard and possibly squirtle before...)
6. Donkey Kong
7. Marth
8. Yoshi
9. Ike
10.
Worst. Jigglypuff
Nair
1. Luigi
2. Meta Knight (why is luigi still above MK? MKs has godly range for a nair, while luigi's doesnt, MKs Comes out JUST as fast, has more priority, and does 19 damage if both hits, and desn't have as much lag afterwards, it should be first, luigis just has slightly more power...)
3. ROB
4. Game and Watch
5. Ike
6. Lucas
7. Yoshi
8. Sheik
9.
10.
Worst.
Fair(put rob on somewhere between 4 and 6, kirby and probably Pika need to GTFO)
1. Marth
2. Meta Knight
3. Ness
4. Lucario
5. Peach
6. Ike
7. Wolf
8. Kirby
9. Pikachu
10.
Worst.
Dair No problems here...i know ^_^)
1. Meta Knight
2. Lucario
3. Peach
4. Wario
5. Game and Watch
6. Falco
7. Fox
8. Ganondorf
9. Ness
10.
Worst. Sheik
Uair
1. Meta Knight
2. Olimar
3. Ganondorf WOW this is bogus!!!! probably game and watch due to high priority and that ****ing uair stall, captain falcon's is Really good, should be forth, with zamus's behind it, then marth, then wario yoshi needs to move down too.
4. Wario
5. Yoshi
6. King Dedede
7. Sonic
8. Captain Falcon
9.
10.
Worst. Lucas
Bair (umm, good but i think luigi should be switched with kirby since its better in almost every way, and I'd put falco on before marth...)
1. Game and Watch
2. Donkey Kong
3. King Dedede
4. Wolf
5. Kirby
6. Yoshi
7. ROB
8. Pit
9. Luigi
10. Marth
Worst. Pikachu
Zair (undisputed
1. Samus
2.(link)
3.(tlink)
4.(lucas)
5/Worst: Lucas
Neutral Special no probs here...,
1. Meta Knight
2. Snake
3. Falco
4. Lucario
5. Pit
6. ROB
7. Wario
8. Donkey Kong
9. Wolf
10.
Worst. Lucas/Ganondorf
Forward/Side/Over Special mario above d3 probably
1. Marth
2. Charizard
3. Olimar
4. Zero Suit Samus
5. King Dedede
6. Mario
7. Ganondorf
8. Bowser
9. Lucas
10. Jigglypuff
Worst.
Down Special nice, but I'd bump sonic for marth and pit
1. Diddy Kong
2. Pikachu
3. Wario
4. Wolf
5. ROB
6. Ice Climbers
7. Zero Suit Samus
8. Donkey Kong
9. Sonic
10.
Worst.
Up Specialalmost perfect, but marth above Rob IMO)
1. Meta Knight
2. Pikachu
3. ROB
4. Marth
5. Game and Watch
6. Sonic
7. Ice Climbers
8. Bowser
9. Luigi
10. Donkey Kong
Worst. Jigglypuff
Standing Grab (Actual grab, not the throw)
1. Olimar
2. Charizard
3. King Dedede
4. Squirtle
5. Sonic
6. Captain Falcon
7.
8.
9.
10.
Worst.
Dash Grab (Actual grab, not the throw)
1. Ness
2. Meta Knight
3. Yoshi
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
Worst. Bowser
Pivot Grab
1. Olimar
2. Yoshi
3. King Dedede D3's is better than yoshi's in every way >_>, as is charizards...
4. Lucas
5. Sonic
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
Fthrow
1. Donkey Kong
2. Kirby (this REALLY NEEDS TO BE NUMBER ONE, its an AMAZING combo move... put d3 on, it has pretty good knockback and does 12 damage)
3. Ganondorf
4. Pikachu
5. Pit
6. Ness
7.
8.
9.
10.
Worst.
Dthrow
1. King Dedede
2. Falco
3. Game and Watch (snakes is better than game and watches in every way..., and if you put luigi, put mario too, since they are identical don't forget powerthrows tho like charzard, squirtle, and lucas, they ALL deserve a spot, more than yoshi and peach, who should GTFO (so should luigi))
4. Snake
5. Olimar
6. Sonic
7. Yoshi
8. Peach
9. Pikachu
10. Luigi
Worst.
Uthrow
1. Olimar
2. Meta Knight
3. Sonic
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
Worst.
Bthrow
1. Ness
2. King Dedede
3. Olimar
4.(DK)
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
Worst.
Pummel
1. Lucas
2. Olimar ( i don't know, I recomend you remove both olimar and lucario from the rankings b/c both are only good with whitepikmen/high damage...)
3. Sonic
4. Lucario
5. Luigi (put mario above luigi, since luigi got Dthrow
6. Mario
7.
8.
9.
10.
Worst. Samus
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please tell me your thoughts on what move should be where and I will edit if your arguement is good enough. So please don't say something like "Sonic's Fair is awesome, it should be 1st" (Just an example) you have to give a reason why.
Also please note that techniques like MK's IDC are not counted, towards the score of the move.
Transformations such as that of Zelda and PT are not counted.
name a worse uair?Lucas does not have the worst uair. It comes out pretty quick, it's hit box is pretty big, it KOs, and it follows up other attacks pretty well. You're underestimating this attack.
Wolf has a good Uair. Samus on the other hand...Wolf.