The *NEW* and *IMPROVED* move ranking list

[Ussi]

Ike:
well if you need an fthrow: Ike wall infinities everyone too 100% with fthrow.


Yoshi has like the 2nd best grab game. And Yoshi's grab game is a counter to Olimar's grab game (cause of armor)

 

[DanGR]

Yah know, there's a reason the original thread died...

And Yoshi's grab game is a counter to Olimar's grab game (cause of armor

lol wut?

 

[c0nd0r]

why is that?

 

[Xiahou Dun]

Hehe well Rock Smash is considered by a huge amount one of the top 5 moves in the game let alone top 5 Side Specials. Put it wherever you feel like as the actual number doesn't matter but if you don't put it somewhere in the top 10 god will kill a kitten.

 

[Judge Judy]

Sheik's Ftilt should definitely be in the top 10.

PS: Kudos to you Blue Bomber for taking on such a task.

 

[Boofy!]

PS: Kudos to you Blue Bomber for taking on such a task.

Right? lol no way in hell i would do this, especially something so opinionated.. people could argue their points until SSB4 comes out

 

[Snowstalker]

Yoshi's bair is top 10 material. It racks up lotsa damage, and is a great approach. I'd say anywhere between 6 and 9.

Falco, Pikachu, and Ice Climbers have dthrows in the top 10 for obvious reasons.

 

[M15t3R E]

Pikachu's down special should be #2, right below Diddy.
Pikachu's up special should be #1. It's WAAAYYYY more useful than anybody's up special that you currently have in the top 10.

EDIT: GGMoneY- it's spelled "Ganon". Just one 'n'.

 

[GGMoneY]

Fthrow
Ganon's does the most damage.

D3s Fthrow does just as much damage. (13%)

Correct me if I'm wrong.

BTW it's spelled Gannon(I'm sure).

 

[Judge Judy]

BTW it's spelled Gannon(I'm sure).

No, it's spelled Ganon short for Ganondorf (Spell check is bad for names).

Anyway, MK's Dair should be in the top 10.

 

[DerpDaBerp]

Stop making these ridiculous threads. You say yourself you don't know much about the other characters and the ones you do rank are really badly placed. Stop wasting space

Lucario has best fwd smash? hell no

 

[Tristan_win]

Worst Fsmash: Sheik, very weak, isn't reliable(as in even if you land the first kick you still may miss even if they di towards you, and is also fairly slow.

Sheik sideB should be within the top 10 best: It can cause damage at a insane rate, can keep selective characters away by a good degree. It can also be jacked with a finisher move which can kill.

 

[JRokOO]

I think it's pretty sad how G-dorf is on the board for multiple moves and yet he's a contender for one of the worst characters in the game

 

[Boofy!]

Gannon =

 

[Snowstalker]

Pikachu's up special should be #1. It's WAAAYYYY more useful than anybody's up special that you currently have in the top 10.

Meta Knight would like to have a word with you. Quick Attack, while great, is #2.

 

[brinboy789]

i see that you didnt put pit as #1 lol. but why is MK fsmash rated 3rd in the game? its so slow, not really worth the knockback. probably not even on the first 10

 

[c0nd0r]

viparagons was sooooooooooo much better

 

[TP]

viparagons was sooooooooooo much better

It was better because it had like a couple thousand posts in it. Give it time. The lists aren'teven filled out yet, so it really is far too early to judge this.

Also, massive failure to anyone who spells it Gannon. This should set you straight.

 

[cutter]

Switch Marth and GW on Dtilts; Marth's has more range is only one frame slower.

Charizard has a longer standing grab than DDD.

I also think Meta and GW have better Nairs than Luigi.

Meta has the best Dair; it comes out frame 4 and is one of the best gimps in the game. He also has the best Uair since it comes out on frame 2 (!!!), disjointed, and ridiculously fast.

 

[Demenise]

Snake's Neutral B is better than MK's. Snake's grenades are EXTREMELY beneficial to his game; there are characters who easily counter Metaknight's Tornado.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Ness' dash grab > MK's dash grab.
They both grab on frame 8, but Ness has 5 frames less cooldown on his grab.
Ness also lunges forward a good deal in his dash grab, so take that as you will.
That is all for now!

 

[kr3wman]

Gannon =

Ganon.

With a SINGLE n.

Get Gannon-banned

 

[Low Rider1717]

Olimars white pikmin for best pummel hands down

 

[xoxokev]

Ness' dash grab > MK's dash grab.
They both grab on frame 8, but Ness has 5 frames less cooldown on his grab.
Ness also lunges forward a good deal in his dash grab, so take that as you will.
That is all for now!

Agreed. Ness' dash grab is too good. Oh, and that Gannon-banned.com website is

 

[Crazy Hobo]

Need moar Falco.
Put him second for d throw, very good chaingrab, and leads to other colmbos at low percents.
Third USmash? Kills low, very quick and you can boost smash and gattling combo with it.
Put him up on Bair, at 4 and knock Wolf down, Falco's bair has good range, priority, damage and knockback. It also satys out an extended time almost like a sex kick.
Fourth on jab, our jab can repeat to punish spot dodge spammers, and the first hit leads into most of our moves.
Second on neutral special, it's his lazer. Lazer games for setting up and spamming to rack up damage. We have laser lock also with it. It's a pretty annoying move.
Also, Olimar should have 1st for side special, the pikmin throw is probably the best spam projectile in the game, and Olimar can do it all day.
Wolf should be placed for his down special. His Shine reflects, gives invincibility frames and gets opponents away form him.

 

[cutter]

Olimars white pikmin for best pummel hands down

I'm pretty sure Lucas's pummel is a higher DPS though.

 

[LordWeasel]

ZSS forward B

 

[c0nd0r]

forwardb

1.olimar
2.marth
3.cape

 

[Kitamerby]

Dash
1.
2.
3.
4.
5. Ganondorf
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
Worst.

Ganondorf's Dash Attack is quite possibly the best one in the game, maybe second only to Snake's, but I'm not even sure about that. It kills at ridiculous percents (I'm talking 90% on floaties here), comes out stupidly quick, acts as a speed boost, has incredible range, does a whopping 15%, amazing priority, extremely difficult to shieldgrab last I checked, very very little lag on the end, etc. The only reason I would ever think Snake's Dash Attack is superior due to how freaking SAFE Snake's is. Ganondorf and Snake's should be the #1 and #2 spots, possibly in that order. Diddy Kong's is third most likely due to its comboability and its effectiveness at picking up bananas.

Fsmash
1. Lucario
2. Donkey Kong
3. Meta Knight
4.
5.
6. Luigi
7. Marth
8.
9.
10.
Worst.

DK is way too high, as is Lucario. Lucario should go down a spot or two, into second or third, as there are better fsmashes. Lucas specifically come to mind. I'd put Lucas personally in #1, with possibly Pit right afterwards. Wario's Fsmash would probably come in 3rd in that case, with Lucario right after in 4th. Donkey Kong would probably be 5th, with MK bringing up the rear in 6th place. GnW would most likely be 7th, and Luigi would then be next in 8th, with Kirby in 9th and maybe Wolf or Marth in 10th.

But that's just how I think it should go.

Dsmash
1. Meta Knight
2. Game and Watch
3. Zero Suit Samus
4. Pikachu
5. ROB
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
Worst.

Pikachu down down down in a burning ring of fire. Its speed is offset by its poor damage output due to ease of DI. ROB up one, with Zelda in 5th place most likely.

Dair
1. Lucario
2. Ganondorf
3.
4. Ness
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
Worst.

Lucario down to 2nd. Meta Knight's Dair is by far the best in the game. There's really no contest. Lucario's Dair is amazing, but it just can't compare to the sheer gimping ability and knockback angle of Meta Knight's Dair.

Uair
1. Ganondorf
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
Worst.

Wtfno. Ganondorf's Uair is top ten, but not the best. Off the top of my head, Wario, GnW, Marf, and arguably Link have better Uairs.

Neutral Special
1. Meta Knight
2. Snake
3. ROB
4. Lucario
5.
6. Peach
7.
8.
9.
10.
Worst. Lucas/Ganondorf

Toad wtf? I fail to see how it could be better than Falco's, Donkey Kong's, Pit's, Pikachu's, Sheik's, Wario's, Wolf's, Toon Link's, etc. Neutral Specials.

Also, make a little footnote on this about Kirby's neutral special. It's a known fact that Kirby can actually use most of everyone else's attacks even better than they can, such as Falco, Pit, or Captain Falcon.

Forward/Side/Over Special
1. Marth
2. Mario
3. Ness
4. Ganondorf
5. Lucas
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
Worst.

Mario's Cape is not the second best. PK Fires are not that high. Off the top of my head, Waddle Dee Toss is almost definitely better than the cape, Pikmin Toss is definitely higher than the cape, Rock Smash should be higher than PK Fire by a long run, Din's Fire is almost definitely superior to PK Fire, Plasma Whip is definitely superior to PK Fire, and almost definitely superior to the cape.

Koopa Klaw also deserves a mention.

Up Special
1. Meta Knight
2. Game and Watch
3. Ness
4. Marth
5. Mario
6. Luigi
7.
8.
9.
10.
Worst. Jigglypuff

Pikachu in second place, ROB needs to be in third, with Marth in Fourth.

For fifth and down, I'm not exactly sure, but I can definitely imagine Ice Climbers being 5th due to its sheer versatility, followed possibly by Spinning Kong (Donkey Kong) Eggs(Yoshi), Corkscrew(Wario), Fire Jump Punch (Luigi), and Wings of Icarus in some order. I can imagine Sonic's Spring Jump, Mario's Super Jump Punch, and Bowser's Whirling Fortress squeezing their way into the top 10 somehow, as well.

Ness needs to get the hell off that list. Seriously, what the hell? The projectile is easy to avoid with most characters, while everyone else can just airdodge through. Ness is also COMPLETELY vulnerable during the attack itself, and can be easy to punish often due to the fact that Ness cannot cancel the attack unless he steers it into something or after the (rather long) timer on the attack runs out. It's also extremely easy to gimp when he is forced to use it for recovery, And don't get me started on PKT2 for OFFENSIVE purposes, but if someone really wants to argue about it, go ahead and try. >>

Standing Grab (Actual grab, not the throw)
1. Olimar
2. King Dedede
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
Worst.

Charizard 3rd. I've heard some data saying that his grab may actually be longer and faster than King Dedede's, though, and if it turns out to be true, then he should definitely be 2nd place instead of Dedede.

Fthrow
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
Worst.

Cargo Toss for #1 by far. Nobody's Fthrow is even half as versatile as Donkey Kong's.

Dthrow
1. King Dedede
2.
3.
4.
5.
6. Peach
7.
8.
9.
10.
Worst.

Are you sure Peach should be there?

Anyways, Falco for 2nd place, (obviously).

GnW is almost definitely 3rd place, with Snake in 4th (Since they're so similar, you should probably take followup options into account. On their own, Snake's Dthrow does more damage than GnW's, and thus is better if I recall correctly).

Sonic's sets up a tech chase, and we all know Sonic is amazing at tech chases.

Also, call me crazy, but I believe Yoshi deserves a spot in this list. I believe Yoshi's Dthrow last I checked had great comboability. Don't quote me on this, though, and if I'm wrong, just ignore this little outburst of Yoshiness.

Uthrow
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
Worst.

Mewtwo gets #1.

Bthrow
1. Ice Climbers
2. Ness
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
Worst.[/quote]
If you're talking about Bthrow itself, and not Ice Climber Bthrow chaingrab, do not put the Ice Climbers as #1. Also, Olimar's Blue Bthrow is stronger than Ness's Bthrow, just so you know (and thus is probably #1 in that case), and King Dedede's Bthrow is definitely right after Ness due to it doing a whopping 16% a pop.

Pummel
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
Worst.

Lucario's pummel potentially can do 1.5%+ per pop at the cap, and at the same time pops in like 9 pops a second. That's a TON of damage.

Samus's pummel doesn't work on Bowser, so I guess it would probably be a contender for worst.

Dude, ZSS's dsmash is just about as tough to punish as MK's and G&W's. If you can punish it out of a spotdodge, then good onya, but the only time I get punished is if I go for another dsmash. If I shield or spotdodge, then I only get punished if they predict which of the two I'm going to do, which isn't punishing the dsmash, it's punishing the shield or spotdodge.

MK's Dsmash kills on its own at respectable percents, comes out in 4 frames, and is absolutely unpunishable if done properly even if whiffed. It also eats spotdodgers alive and has immense range. Oh, and it hits on both sides. :D

GnW's in the same boat, but instead of speed, add in the ability to KO off the top at like 80, or off the sides at like 100, or simply sets up a gimp that's nearly impossible to recover properly from with many characters, and will definitely lead to massive damage on others. It also has incredible priority and is inescapable from a dthrow unless the opponent techs perfectly. It also has IASA frames.

ZSS's is third at best. It's great at its job, but it just plain doesn't have that "WOW!" factor that GnW and MK possess.

Pummel
Lucas MUST be number 1 here. His pummel is too good.

Lucario's pummel is better. <<

Ike:
well if you need an fthrow: Ike wall infinities everyone too 100% with fthrow.

Lucario can wall-jump out last I checked, and most walled stages are banned anyways, so this won't really matter much.

Yoshi has like the 2nd best grab game. And Yoshi's grab game is a counter to Olimar's grab game (cause of armor)

Correction: Yoshi has like the 2nd best PIVOT grab game. His standing grab is like omgwtfsosloooowwwww.

Speaking of which, a Pivot-grab category should be made.


So yeah, this is my input.

edit: Oh, and Pit should be 4th for jabs. It's incredibly versatile, with great range, disjoints, and can be switched between an infinite and 3-hit jab at will.

 

[XxBlackxX]

neutral b falco's lasers=3rd
they're easily spammable, have hitstun so you can silent laser->boost smash for KO's, decent damage, and you can SHL and SHDLs. better than ROB imo.

 

[Browny]

Kirbs fsmash has to be #1

that thing is insane. it cancels out full charged aura sphere if you hit him from BEHIND while he fsmashes in the other direction. and its got a similar KO potential/speed ratio only seen by the like of snakes uptilt. Oh, and it lingers, has huge range... what isnt #1 about this move? its slight disadvantages (punishable on block, low vertical range) dont detract from all its good points

 

[Cactupuss]

Lucas's Up Special deserves to be on there with/above ness's

Lucas's PKT2 has almost as much knock back on the final hit as Ness's, and his PKT1 can go through targets, making it much more versatile, as well as a great ledgegaurd.

It can also travel through/cancel some attacks and keep going, making it harder to gimp (Ex. Snakes Side Special)

It is also much more maneuverable, and easier to aim, His PKT2 also travels a farther distance, making it easier to recover.

If you can aim it right you can juggle someone off the screen, or even into the path of your PKT2 in one motion.

It can also be used for AT's such as Thundersliding, and can be added to his already insane recovery making Lucas hard to gimp (zapjump+magnet pull already brings you to stage level + tether/PKT2)

 

[CR4SH]

MK fsmash is not top 10. One of his few moves that isn't crazy good.

Luigi has the #1 nair. I'll take that argument to the grave, and so will hippiedude.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=198946

read that link if you disagree.

The only other move I'll argue for luigi is his jab. Luigi's jab game is GREAT. Jab cancels to grab, which goes to downthrow, which leads to aerial strings. Jab cancels to dsmash, and kill moves. Jab cancels to shoryuken.

Diddy has the best downb. Snake has the best neutral b (better than whorenado, yes). I would say pika has the best upb, all things considered. QAC and excellent lagless, unpunishable recovery.

 

[ph00tbag]

MK's Dsmash kills on its own at respectable percents, comes out in 4 frames, and is absolutely unpunishable if done properly even if whiffed. It also eats spotdodgers alive and has immense range. Oh, and it hits on both sides. :D

GnW's in the same boat, but instead of speed, add in the ability to KO off the top at like 80, or off the sides at like 100, or simply sets up a gimp that's nearly impossible to recover properly from with many characters, and will definitely lead to massive damage on others. It also has incredible priority and is inescapable from a dthrow unless the opponent techs perfectly. It also has IASA frames.

ZSS's is third at best. It's great at its job, but it just plain doesn't have that "WOW!" factor that GnW and MK possess.

Your definition of WOW factor is meaningless. ZSS's Dsmash doesn't have "WOW" factor to you because you're one of many that doesn't consider it in terms of its implications. Her dsmash doesn't necessarily have "WOW" factor on its own, but the wealth of follow ups for it should be astonishing, and the fact that people seem to just ignore them is kind of disheartening.

MK and G&W's dsmashes KO/set up edgeguards. Okay, awesome. ZSS's sets up for KOs and Edgeguards. G&W's follows up dthrow if they miss their tech. Okay, awesome. ZSS's follows up Plasma Wire if they miss their tech or if they tech in place.

What does ZSS's Dsmash do that they don't, though? It sets up for combos. ZSS suffers no hitlag. It sets up for the seventh most powerful spike in the game. It sets up for grabs, which can lead to grab release followups on many characters including Metaknight.

ZSS's dsmash chains Fox up to 90%, leading into a fresh bair for a KO. Name any other dsmash that does that. You've named two dsmashes that are simply good KO moves. ZSS's dsmash is so much more than that, it's not even funny. Basically, getting hit by ZSS's dsmash means a world of pain for many characters in this game, beyond just a KO or an edgeguard.

If that doesn't count as WOW factor to you, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[stingers]

ZSS has a 0-Death on Fox?

XFD

 

[The_Blue_Bomber]

Guys I know it may seem like I'm not updating but this is because I live in Australia, so while your posting all this stuff I'm usually asleep or at school. But I promise that as soon as I get home each day I will read this thread and edit the first post.

i don't see much intelligent in this thread
wait, am i the only non 2008ers here?

Lol the irony.

Anyway, it doesn't matter how long you have been here, you can still know a lot about Smash. Anyway last time I checked Brawl was released in 2008, meaning some of these people have been here since Brawl's release.

Also do not take the rankings to be in any the correct order unless the list is is full. Someone said something about Luigi's Nair being too high, it is only that way until someone suggests better candidates.

Yah know, there's a reason the original thread died...

It was locked because the OP went nuts and posted SPAM, it did not die.

Stop making these ridiculous threads. You say yourself you don't know much about the other characters and the ones you do rank are really badly placed. Stop wasting space

Lucario has best fwd smash? hell no

Yes and I will move them accordingly when someone tells me why they shouldn't be there instead of flaming me, thank you very much.

PS: Kudos to you Blue Bomber for taking on such a task.

Right? lol no way in hell i would do this, especially something so opinionated.. people could argue their points until SSB4 comes out

Thank you

viparagons was sooooooooooo much better

Kinda strange that you appeared around the same time Viparagon left and you also main Mario, and now you are saying his list was better.

What a strangle coincidence

 

[ph00tbag]

ZSS has a 0-Death on Fox?

XFD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdaTZBr7zGg&feature=related

Starts at 3:05. Ikki doesn't even do it the way most ZSSes do it these days if they land it, and he gets greedy with it. Either way, yeah.

 

[CR4SH]

Also do not take the rankings to be in any the correct order unless the list is is full. Someone said something about Luigi's Nair being too high, it is only that way until someone suggests better candidates.

(not arguing with the blue bomber, just taking the chance to further my point)

The top 3 nairs in the game are rob, mk and luigi. There really shouldn't be any discussion there. Luigi's is by far the most versitile, kills the earliest, and comes out (unless MK nair comes out frame 3 or earlier, and I didn't know it) the fastest. It combos, it breaks combos, and it beats or clashes with a large majority of the moves in the game. Plus it autocancels, you can fit two into one shorthop, or two other aerials and an autocanceled nair. Game's best nair, seriously.

 

[The_Blue_Bomber]

Okay I updated while counting in all your suggestions, thank you for all your help and co-operation so far.

Also, as suggested I added a Pivot Grab list, I'm not going to add anything to it myself because everything else that I think should be somewhere on the list is always wrong... So I'll let you guys decide what you think should be there.

 

[Judge Judy]

My thoughts:

Forward/Side/Over Special
1. Marth
2. Charizard
3. Ganondorf
4. Zelda
5. Zero Suit Samus (Should be 3rd): Great range and kill move
6. Olimar (Should be 2nd): Pikmin are one of the best and most verstile projectiles in the game; I might be overratting them a bit, but I'd like to see what others think
7. Ness
8. Mario (Should be 4th): Reverses momentum, trancended priority, reflector, cape glide, cape teleport, turns opponents around, etc.
9. Shiek
10. Bowser