BurningCrusader777
Smash Journeyman
MK for worst jab.
Slowest one to startup, IIRC, and it does really crappy damage.
Slowest one to startup, IIRC, and it does really crappy damage.
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The *NEW* and *IMPROVED* move ranking list
- Thread starter The_Blue_Bomber
- Start date
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
Samus has a better Uair.
more range to it.
Kief
Smash Ace
links diar is laggy and doesnt spike but come on that move is incredible (can kill below 100%) and good players dont even land with it, taking away the lag so i think it should def. be considered in the top ten.
plus link obviously has a better zair than 4 empty spaces lol. many characters dont have a zair and links is an incredible spacing/combo move. it should be right below samus's imo.
and for the down special, if you're counting all the things link can do with his bomb, then he should be in the top ten in that as well, because the mindgames/uses you have with that are endless.
i believe falco's down special should be up there as well, because along with deflecting projectiles, it can be used an air or ground attack, great for spacing, and an edge guarding tactic
this thread is cool though
plus link obviously has a better zair than 4 empty spaces lol. many characters dont have a zair and links is an incredible spacing/combo move. it should be right below samus's imo.
and for the down special, if you're counting all the things link can do with his bomb, then he should be in the top ten in that as well, because the mindgames/uses you have with that are endless.
i believe falco's down special should be up there as well, because along with deflecting projectiles, it can be used an air or ground attack, great for spacing, and an edge guarding tactic
this thread is cool though
FrozenFire13
Smash Ace
I'm not seeing much factual info in this. Too many people with half or so (I'm not gonna read through all the pages) posting their OPINIONS. Not enough people that actually know what they're talking about.
EDIT: This has fail written on it. Link's Zair isn't even on the list.
EDIT: I love you all. I'm just being an angry poster because I haven't slept yet. Much love. Good effort. Keep it up. Have fun. Smash ftw. Everybody here go to Genesis. The end.
EDIT: This has fail written on it. Link's Zair isn't even on the list.
EDIT: I love you all. I'm just being an angry poster because I haven't slept yet. Much love. Good effort. Keep it up. Have fun. Smash ftw. Everybody here go to Genesis. The end.
sonic 12111
Smash Journeyman
mr game and watch has the worst jab right. i think it is horrible. it is easily DIed out of and it doesnt do much damage. i only do 7 damage before they get out of it.
Frown
poekmon
Worst standing grab would be Link.
Not only does it have massive ending lag, but it looks so darn embarassing when his clawshot falls to the ground and he waits for a second to pull it back.
Not only does it have massive ending lag, but it looks so darn embarassing when his clawshot falls to the ground and he waits for a second to pull it back.
Nidtendofreak
Smash Hero
You should add Ike's Utilt to the top 10. It kills 1% later then his Usmash, and is a true combo out of his first Jab. It's basically Snake's Utilt, with a true combo to set it up, but a slightly smaller hitbox and less speed when out of that combo.
And I'd have to agree with MK's jab being the worse.
And I'd have to agree with MK's jab being the worse.
TKD+ITA+Mar=
Smash Ace
Marth's Nair is pretty good, quite fast, double hit, amazing knockback. However it has a hard time hitting smaller opponents on the ground.
Jim Morrison
Smash Authority
Why is Sonics grab up there? It has the worst grab range of all.
There's a few moves being chosen because they "combo well into other moves" but that's a full movelist debate, not a single move debate. Sure, Ganondorf's Dtilt hits after his ForwardB, but ForwardB is the good move, the Dtilt is just getting points by association.
Othertimes, a character without many "good" moves will always have a default "good" move relatively speaking (because you can't stand idle and win). I guess Captain Falcon's Fair suffers from this.
On the other hand, giving Ganondorf's Dair to someone with moderate aerial capabilities like Ness would be completely asinine.
You can look at the properties of the move itself or at the move in practice (which cares about your character's floatiness, run speed, etc). Good aerials on good aerial maneuverable characters like Wario or Luigi will ultimately perform better than a terrifying aerial (Ganondorf Dair) on a heavy short jumping Ganondorf.
I like to think of "best moves" where I divorce the move from the character, give it to whoever I want to, then test the ridiculousness of it.
Othertimes, a character without many "good" moves will always have a default "good" move relatively speaking (because you can't stand idle and win). I guess Captain Falcon's Fair suffers from this.
On the other hand, giving Ganondorf's Dair to someone with moderate aerial capabilities like Ness would be completely asinine.
You can look at the properties of the move itself or at the move in practice (which cares about your character's floatiness, run speed, etc). Good aerials on good aerial maneuverable characters like Wario or Luigi will ultimately perform better than a terrifying aerial (Ganondorf Dair) on a heavy short jumping Ganondorf.
I like to think of "best moves" where I divorce the move from the character, give it to whoever I want to, then test the ridiculousness of it.
Browny
Smash Hater
ugh @ people who assume everything about sonic...
... wait, your a sonic main too?? wtf
His grab range is average amongst non-tether characters, his dash grab is right up there for the quickest in the game (i think only ness' is faster) and it also slides a decent amount. not MK length, but its still a very large range when compared to every other character.
its good
YagamiDark
Smash Journeyman
Some of these are really out of place...
I'm quite surprised Zelda's uair, utilt and dtilt havn't made top 10.
Strongest uair in the game by quite a lot. I think it's also one of the highest priority attacks in the game as nothing but kirby's down b can go through it, and even then it can catch kirby out as he'll need a few frames to morph into the object first before he falls. She won't be landing this often, but she doesn't have to, as usually whenever it does hit it kills them instantly. Ivysaur is not exactly light, and it KOs him consistently at 60% with DI.
Strongest utilt in the game as well. It's stronger than snake's, (not sure about ganon's, though his one has hardly enough use to count). Utilt also lingers and punishes rolls and even spotdodges. It has enough priority to beat even lucario's dair (we all know the great priority of that move), and it even true combos from dtilt at correct percents. Again, it won't hit much, but when it does it kills. If I remember correctly, it starts KOing lightweights around 70+% with DI and anything else around 90+%.
And her Dtilt is amazing. Deceptive range, lock capabilities (which are surprisingly difficult to SDI out of), and it can give enough hitstun at later percents to true combo into other attacks. It hits on frame 5, so it's fast, and clanks with practically anything that hits it, so Zelda can use this on many character's FSmashes to avoid being killed. It also has hardly any cooldown lag. For tilt, I think it deserves its place on the top 10.
Also... when she sweetspots them, she has the strongest fair and bair in the game. Bair is much easier to sweetspot and is more useful. It can hit all character out of shield except MK and I think pikachu and squirtle. As an out of shield option, I think it's amazing. It's also 5 frames long I think, so it's fast and, when RARd, can be used as a great wall against approaching foes!
Strongest uair in the game by quite a lot. I think it's also one of the highest priority attacks in the game as nothing but kirby's down b can go through it, and even then it can catch kirby out as he'll need a few frames to morph into the object first before he falls. She won't be landing this often, but she doesn't have to, as usually whenever it does hit it kills them instantly. Ivysaur is not exactly light, and it KOs him consistently at 60% with DI.
Strongest utilt in the game as well. It's stronger than snake's, (not sure about ganon's, though his one has hardly enough use to count). Utilt also lingers and punishes rolls and even spotdodges. It has enough priority to beat even lucario's dair (we all know the great priority of that move), and it even true combos from dtilt at correct percents. Again, it won't hit much, but when it does it kills. If I remember correctly, it starts KOing lightweights around 70+% with DI and anything else around 90+%.
And her Dtilt is amazing. Deceptive range, lock capabilities (which are surprisingly difficult to SDI out of), and it can give enough hitstun at later percents to true combo into other attacks. It hits on frame 5, so it's fast, and clanks with practically anything that hits it, so Zelda can use this on many character's FSmashes to avoid being killed. It also has hardly any cooldown lag. For tilt, I think it deserves its place on the top 10.
Also... when she sweetspots them, she has the strongest fair and bair in the game. Bair is much easier to sweetspot and is more useful. It can hit all character out of shield except MK and I think pikachu and squirtle. As an out of shield option, I think it's amazing. It's also 5 frames long I think, so it's fast and, when RARd, can be used as a great wall against approaching foes!
Boxob.
Smash Lord
Worst standing grab is either Sonic or Yoshi.
You can't shield grab fast enough for Yoshi to make it of any use usually.
Sonic's is just tooslow short.
You can't shield grab fast enough for Yoshi to make it of any use usually.
Sonic's is just too
The Halloween Captain
Smash Master
I think this is an underestimation of Pikachu's Bair. It is by no means a great move, but among players who have used Pikachu enough to understand it's properties, it is a usable move. Unless every other Bair is usable, in which case, Pika might be the worst.
A good Pika mainer can use the attack as a quick multi-hit move. The main problems with the attack is understanding how the attack moves (an issue concerning experience) and that it might be DI-able out of. I don't know too much about the effect of opponent DI on this move unfortunately. However, it is quite usable.
IKOU
Smash Apprentice
Marth's Nair should be on the list. also Falco's Fair is the worst
Where is Toon Link?
Toon Link's Bair and down-B should be on there for sure.
Bair is great for combo's and racking up damage, it comes out fast and has little if any lag.
Down-B has huge priority and hit stun and it can be used in many ways (like Diddy's down-B)
Come to think of it his Zair isn't on there either.
You should think about all the characters before making lists like this.
Fox's Down-B, greatest reflector in the game. 'It's more than just a reflector.' This should be high up on the list. And yet you have Wolf's Down-B at number 4?
Toon Link's Bair and down-B should be on there for sure.
Bair is great for combo's and racking up damage, it comes out fast and has little if any lag.
Down-B has huge priority and hit stun and it can be used in many ways (like Diddy's down-B)
Come to think of it his Zair isn't on there either.
You should think about all the characters before making lists like this.
Fox's Down-B, greatest reflector in the game. 'It's more than just a reflector.' This should be high up on the list. And yet you have Wolf's Down-B at number 4?
Browny
Smash Hater
strangest forum name ive ever seen..
jjvirus
Smash Champion
R.O.B. for worst side b pl0x. I dont think i have to explain why
I would put Jigglypuff Dtilt as worst... (really just too useless) and Jigglys Upsmash as "not worst" since it's really usefull when you use it in a dash cancel... it may also be really unexpected to use randomly in a figth.
IKOU
Smash Apprentice
Why isn't Jiggs's Fair on the list? Also, Snake and DK's Nairs should also be on the list, and Marth's neutral B should be on the list
Browny
Smash Hater
How is DK's nair anything special?
and marths shielbreaker isnt anywhere near as useful as all the current neutral B's there
and marths shielbreaker isnt anywhere near as useful as all the current neutral B's there
Face124
Smash Ace
Ike's dash attack is great, why isn't it up there? and why is Falcon's standing grab up there, its bad :S
Frown
poekmon
Put DDD's ftilt on that list. Its range is --------------------------------[]
brinboy789
Smash Champion
blue bomber, you havent updated this list in forever -_-
I think Luigi needs the 8th spot or something for up tilt
It "combos" at low percentage and Kills also at a good percentage (as far as up tilts go.)
It "combos" at low percentage and Kills also at a good percentage (as far as up tilts go.)
illinialex24
Smash Hero
This list just isn't right.
IKOU
Smash Apprentice
There are only 9 neutral B's on the list.
And when was the last time this list was updated?
IKOU
Smash Apprentice
Waiting with the other Nairs for this list to get updated.Where is Pikachu Nair?
But seriously, it is a good move and is similar to MK's Nair, so it does have a place on the list.
I'm guessing it's because of the slow startup time. it may be powerful, but it takes a while to start up.
how is squirtle's dthrow not on the list
or ivysaur's bullet seed
what is this...this madness
also worst down b is squirtle's LOL
best down b...is ivysaur's LOL
ivy's nair is pretty good and combos into utilt/bullet seed
or ivysaur's bullet seed
what is this...this madness
also worst down b is squirtle's LOL
best down b...is ivysaur's LOL
ivy's nair is pretty good and combos into utilt/bullet seed
M.K
Level 55
Wow, this list blows ***!
How does Zero Suit Samus not make the best jab list? FAIL.
How does Zero Suit Samus not make the best jab list? FAIL.
jjvirus
Smash Champion
How is Ivys's Bair not worse than Pika's.....?