The Brawlplusery - Brawl+ Codeset - Updated 3rd April

[ph00tbag]

The problem with the individual hitstun thing, is that hitstun applies against a character. Not toward them. In other words, if you were to exempt mk from the hitstun code, he would be taking normal brawl level hitstun, but his attacks would all deal brawl+ level hitstun. Which would be bad. We could increase his hitstun so that characters can combo him easier, essentially making a match with mk more like ssb64 than brawl+.

On an unrelated note, I always thought it would be hilarious to put together a code that takes out DI and make a codeset called "Brawl 64."

And of course, I just now see the thread for it which has been locked.

 

[Ulevo]

I look forward to your video, Ulevo -- Hope you feel better soon. I had the flu a couple weeks ago and 14 hours of sleep did the trick. You might consider the same if you can.

Yeah, I was going to think that decision over, but then I realized I had to go to a tourney and didn't sleep properly for a whole weekend.

No johns.

 

[kupo15]

On an unrelated note, I always thought it would be hilarious to put together a code that takes out DI and make a codeset called "Brawl 64."

And of course, I just now see the thread for it which has been locked.

Ok. I think Alams needs to edit the title of that thread and add on "Joke thread"

 

[Rikana]

First off, I took Brawl+ to a tournament on Saturday. I can positively say I play with real people on this. And on another note, it was perceived quite well by a few people.

Sorry, this is going to be a bit off topic. I noticed you live in Ontario. May I ask where? I live in Ontario as well and never really get to have any of the Smash actions.

 

[GameSystem]

On an unrelated note, I always thought it would be hilarious to put together a code that takes out DI and make a codeset called "Brawl 64."

And of course, I just now see the thread for it which has been locked.

If you want to take out DI just set the hitlag code to 0.

 

[shanus]

Live stream should be up shortly:

http://www.justin.tv/shanus19

 

[kupo15]

If you want to take out DI just set the hitlag code to 0.

Normal DI is still possible. SDI is not

 

[GameSystem]

Aww oh well. Well there was still some DI in ssb64. I guess we can leave that in.

 

[kupo15]

The only DI in 64 is SDI so its still way different

 

[CyberGlitch]

The big buffs metaknight got was hitstun and no stale moves. He can use him downsmash without worrying about weakening it, same with his shuttle. His overall killing potential was increased (though the hitstun also reduced his advantage in survivability due to quick aerial attacks).

I don't think removing ALR for him will do much, not only for the reasons mentioned (him owning in the air, not on the ground) and because he auto cancels most moves as it is. I suppose it wouldn't hurt much to make this change.


Oh, and I tried those Lucas frame mods. The Up Tilt mod is really nice, allows for combos and gives Lucas just the more reliable upward defense he needed, as well as a setup for juggling/combos. The grab mod worked fantastic, but I'd tone the lag reduction down just a tad to make the move marginally punishable. The same goes for the Up Smash reduction. I didn't think I'd be for this, but after trying it out I can see why it might be needed. I wouldn't reduce the lag by as much as you have, though, he wasn't easy enough to punish. If you shielded the move you couldn't realy punish it because of shieldstun, the lag needs to be enough to allow punishment in this case.

 

[Shell]

I think we're probably waiting on the u-smash both due to it's somewhat controversial nature and for conservation of lines -- maybe tourney results (or a lack thereof) will indicate it's necessary. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[CyberGlitch]

The Up Smash certainly is a lower priority change.

But I would put decrease is lag of most tether grabs as high priority, especially for tether grabs that have small range (Lucas and Yoshi). The importance of this is especially apparent because of the speed increases Brawl+ has benefited all characters. Should a failed grab be punished by a charged forward smash?

 

[kupo15]

tether grabs were always slow for a trade off of range, I don't see why brawl+ should be any different

 

[Shell]

If it's any consolation to you kupo, most of Lucas's throws are terrible at everything other than killing at high percents.

 

[CyberGlitch]

The grabs come out slow, this is great, the moves have terrible ending lag when missed. This is questionable.

Maybe I'm just imagining things, but the lag after a missed grab is higher for Samus and Link than in Melee or 64. Why was it increased? I'm guessing to compensate for VBrawl's slower movement speed, to allow the whiffed grabs to be punished. Brawl+ has changed movement speed and smash attacks have been made easier to approach with using dash cancel. The increased dash speed has also decreased the advantage of high range grabs. The low range, low lag, standard grab can be compensated by faster dash speeds. Whiffed grabs should be punishable, but not by charged smash attacks. This is not a fair trade.

When I play as Lucas, and especially when I play as Yoshi, I don't grab. The very slight increase in grab range is NOT worth the slower execution of the grab and terrible ending lag for whiffed grabs. If players are avoiding a move altogether, you know there's a problem. Out of curiosity, what is Lucas's grab range compared to Dedede's?

Also with Yoshi, remember that he cannot jump out of shield, he has two defensive options when in shield, stop shielding and shield grab. When he can't effectively shield grab he loses all effective defensive options involving his shield.


I think you overestimate the advantage of increased grab range. Modifying the lag at the end of the grabs wouldn't make it any easier to grab others with these moves, it would just reduce the amount of punishment the tether grab can receive when failed to be more balanced.

 

[The Cape]

Man speaks the truth.

Good shiz.

And one thing to point out. Yoshi has options out of sheild, if he rolls he can do instant D smashes and tilts. But we plan on fixing his sheild (if we can) anyway.

 

[MuBa]

The grabs come out slow, this is great, the moves have terrible ending lag when missed. This is questionable.

Maybe I'm just imagining things, but the lag after a missed grab is higher for Samus and Link than in Melee or 64. Why was it increased? I'm guessing to compensate for VBrawl's slower movement speed, to allow the whiffed grabs to be punished. Brawl+ has changed movement speed and smash attacks have been made easier to approach with using dash cancel. The increased dash speed has also decreased the advantage of high range grabs. The low range, low lag, standard grab can be compensated by faster dash speeds. Whiffed grabs should be punishable, but not by charged smash attacks. This is not a fair trade.

When I play as Lucas, and especially when I play as Yoshi, I don't grab. The very slight increase in grab range is NOT worth the slower execution of the grab and terrible ending lag for whiffed grabs. If players are avoiding a move altogether, you know there's a problem. Out of curiosity, what is Lucas's grab range compared to Dedede's?

Also with Yoshi, remember that he cannot jump out of shield, he has two defensive options when in shield, stop shielding and shield grab. When he can't effectively shield grab he loses all effective defensive options involving his shield.


I think you overestimate the advantage of increased grab range. Modifying the lag at the end of the grabs wouldn't make it any easier to grab others with these moves, it would just reduce the amount of punishment the tether grab can receive when failed to be more balanced.

Lol when I made my own set, what I actually did was raised the speed Yoshi's and Lucas's standing grab (no hitbox problem). Their running grab, while I don't have the action ID for it, is pretty fast enough but the land lag is horrid. Something needs to be done about that.

 

[ph00tbag]

The grabs come out slow, this is great, the moves have terrible ending lag when missed. This is questionable.

Maybe I'm just imagining things, but the lag after a missed grab is higher for Samus and Link than in Melee or 64. Why was it increased? I'm guessing to compensate for VBrawl's slower movement speed, to allow the whiffed grabs to be punished. Brawl+ has changed movement speed and smash attacks have been made easier to approach with using dash cancel. The increased dash speed has also decreased the advantage of high range grabs. The low range, low lag, standard grab can be compensated by faster dash speeds. Whiffed grabs should be punishable, but not by charged smash attacks. This is not a fair trade.

When I play as Lucas, and especially when I play as Yoshi, I don't grab. The very slight increase in grab range is NOT worth the slower execution of the grab and terrible ending lag for whiffed grabs. If players are avoiding a move altogether, you know there's a problem. Out of curiosity, what is Lucas's grab range compared to Dedede's?

Also with Yoshi, remember that he cannot jump out of shield, he has two defensive options when in shield, stop shielding and shield grab. When he can't effectively shield grab he loses all effective defensive options involving his shield.


I think you overestimate the advantage of increased grab range. Modifying the lag at the end of the grabs wouldn't make it any easier to grab others with these moves, it would just reduce the amount of punishment the tether grab can receive when failed to be more balanced.

Use Pivot grab. Lucas' and Yoshi's pivot grabs are amazing, probably just as much so in Brawl+ as in Brawl. These are the last two characters whose grabs you should be concerned about.

Really, Samus, Link and Toon Link are the three I'd be most inclined to give grab buffs to, although at least Samus has a shorter animation on her dash grab than her standing and pivot variations. I'd include ZSS, but her terrible grab balances well with her really good dthrow.

 

[Ulevo]

Use Pivot grab. Lucas' and Yoshi's pivot grabs are amazing, probably just as much so in Brawl+ as in Brawl. These are the last two characters whose grabs you should be concerned about.

Really, Samus, Link and Toon Link are the three I'd be most inclined to give grab buffs to, although at least Samus has a shorter animation on her dash grab than her standing and pivot variations. I'd include ZSS, but her terrible grab balances well with her really good dthrow.

I agree with ph00t.

On another note, I hate you all. Namely Cape. I just stumbled on his Brawl+ vids, and I keep watching them. I need to go to work, and can't be watching cool videos all day.

 

[Yeroc]

I too, am gonna go with ph00t here, but also include a nod to ZSS in proportion to and on the grounds that it's much easier to punish missed grabs in Brawl+ than it was in vBrawl. That thing stays out there for freakin' ever.

 

[Cheeri-Oats]

Quick Question: Is it still possible to include the auto-switch between Pokemon after death? Because I felt that was an awesome and unique trait to Pokemon Trainer.

Also, is there a way to see ALL the changes across all the versions?

 

[shanus]

Quick Question: Is it still possible to include the auto-switch between Pokemon after death? Because I felt that was an awesome and unique trait to Pokemon Trainer.

Also, is there a way to see ALL the changes across all the versions?

The second post includes the latest changelog, and if you scroll down, individual past changes too.

 

[CyberGlitch]

Brawl+'s no autoswap mod for the pokemon can be removed manually pretty easily, but the concensus is that this code should be in the official codeset to allow users to focus on individual pokemon.


Yoshi and Lucas do have good pivot grabs, but that is very situational, and it doesn't address the issues they have with shieldgrabbing, or standing grabs. Just because Olimar has a good pivot grab doesn't mean his standing long range grab should suck.

Yoshi and Lucas have very akward grabs. They aren't really long enough to stay out of range of move attacks, so although they get the punishing lag of tethered grabs, they don't get the advantage Link or Samus get from the extra range.

I'm not so sure their running grabs should be sped up, but the standing grabs are an issue.

 

[Archangel]

What about Yoshi's Recovery? Too bad he didn't get a tether grab. I could have seen him grabbing with his tongue. That would've been much better for him.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

Brawl+'s no autoswap mod for the pokemon can be removed manually pretty easily, but the concensus is that this code should be in the official codeset to allow users to focus on individual pokemon.

not necessarily true. it's just convenient for now since the game is in beta, after all. i believe there is intention to find a way to keep the pokemon trainer as he is and also give players the option to play individual pokemon.

 

[Cheeri-Oats]

The second post includes the latest changelog, and if you scroll down, individual past changes too.

The second post does not account for all the changes across all the versions. Just the very latest ones.

 

[Archangel]

not necessarily true. it's just convenient for now since the game is in beta, after all. i believe there is intention to find a way to keep the pokemon trainer as he is and also give players the option to play individual pokemon.

Unless there is eventually a way to keep Pokemon from autoswapping by holding or pressing a button. We may even find a way to skip Pokemon actually. For Example say you where Squirtle and you died or used swap. You'd press R to go to Ivysaur and L to go to Charizard. Same thing if you died. Unless you didn't want to swap after death then you don't press anything. Good Idea?

 

[Ulevo]

On a completely random note, does it piss anyone else off that Squirtle drowns? That needs to be fixed.

Not competitively important, just something that should be fixed should we get more coding space.

 

[shanus]

The second post does not account for all the changes across all the versions. Just the very latest ones.

Yes it does. Look at the far bottom of the second post where it says codes in effect. It also lists all specific changes made in previous versions. If you want a history of how those values changed, I also have a more thorough changelist, but the 2nd post does in fact, tell you everything.

 

[trojanpooh]

On a completely random note, does it piss anyone else off that Squirtle drowns? That needs to be fixed.

Not competitively important, just something that should be fixed should we get more coding space.

I really really hope your joking.

 

[ph00tbag]

At the very least, Lucas has the option of nair OOS, among other good aerials. He could probably also do PSI Magnet OOS, although that might not have enough range to be dangerous.

Yoshi I can see as having a problem OOS. Maybe speeding up his shield grab's start-up would be useful. It couldn't be much, since we do want to balance his range with his speed.

 

[kupo15]

At the very least, Lucas has the option of nair OOS, among other good aerials. He could probably also do PSI Magnet OOS, although that might not have enough range to be dangerous.

Yoshi I can see as having a problem OOS. Maybe speeding up his shield grab's start-up would be useful. It couldn't be much, since we do want to balance his range with his speed.

Well right now, you can't speed up the start without speeding up everything else

 

[Shell]

ph00tbag-

PSI magnet is a terrible idea for an attack. Nair also has no range, but if you're right up on them it might work. He needed a small buff and this and the utilt fit the bill. I don't know why you're so against him getting small buffs.

 

[Cheeri-Oats]

Yes it does. Look at the far bottom of the second post where it says codes in effect. It also lists all specific changes made in previous versions. If you want a history of how those values changed, I also have a more thorough changelist, but the 2nd post does in fact, tell you everything.

You're right. *Slaps forehead*

I was expecting something a little more user friendly and more explicit. Like, there is a list all modified grav values and such, but I was expecting hard numbers like that.

 

[SketchHurricane]

Yoshi and Lucas do have good pivot grabs, but that is very situational, and it doesn't address the issues they have with shieldgrabbing, or standing grabs. Just because Olimar has a good pivot grab doesn't mean his standing long range grab should suck.

I hope your kidding about Oli. I'd say he has the best range grab in the game.

 

[Eaode]

yeah oli has an amazing grab range with practically no lag...

 

[SCOTU]

ok, this brawl+ stuff. Definitely the ****. I like this game a lot more than the original. I'd only try to change a few more things.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

ok, this brawl+ stuff. Definitely the ****. I like this game a lot more than the original. I'd only try to change a few more things.

great! glad you like it! hop onto the irc channel to chat with other brawl+ers if you wanna chat it up about its awesomeness

 

[kupo15]

ok, this brawl+ stuff. Definitely the ****. I like this game a lot more than the original. I'd only try to change a few more things.

Thats awesome. We only have a few more things left anyway

 

[Ulevo]

ok, this brawl+ stuff. Definitely the ****. I like this game a lot more than the original. I'd only try to change a few more things.

Bwahaha! I have infected thee!

I really really hope your joking.

No. I'm really not. For all intents and purposes, Squirtle should not drown. He's effected by grass attacks (i.e. Ivysaurs Razor Leaf, Vine Whip, et cetera), and has resistance to fire attacks (i.e. Bowsers fire, R.O.B.'s Nair, G&W Stick, et cetera), but they can't make him swim in water? I think that's completely ********.

Like I said, this has no competitive value (unless you like the idea of counterpicking Pirate Ship/Delfino Plaza for Squirtle for this purpose), and is not exactly important when considering other changes that need to be made, but it'd something I'd like to see in.