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The Brawlplusery - Brawl+ Codeset - Updated 3rd April
- Thread starter Almas
- Start date
- Status
Consider the following:
* remove the extra gravity on the MK tornado that makes it stay groundish.
* Make it so you can't air dodge w/in 5 frames of leaving the ground
* Make it so that MK tornado cannot be extended (via pressing B)
* Implement Melee Air Dodge.
you get things like wavelanding (something that would add a ton of extra depth and flow to Brawl+)
you wouldn't add wavedashing (something that would be stupid broken in brawl+ w/o additional lag)
Tornado wouldn't be **** at chasing Melee Air dodge, and it would also make it easier to avoid silly juggles allowed by the brawl air dodge.
Just throwing this out there as something to consider.
* remove the extra gravity on the MK tornado that makes it stay groundish.
* Make it so you can't air dodge w/in 5 frames of leaving the ground
* Make it so that MK tornado cannot be extended (via pressing B)
* Implement Melee Air Dodge.
you get things like wavelanding (something that would add a ton of extra depth and flow to Brawl+)
you wouldn't add wavedashing (something that would be stupid broken in brawl+ w/o additional lag)
Tornado wouldn't be **** at chasing Melee Air dodge, and it would also make it easier to avoid silly juggles allowed by the brawl air dodge.
Just throwing this out there as something to consider.
kupo15
Smash Hero
We really don't. Agree
Revven
FrankerZ
Just FYI, MAD = 88 lines = not enough space for more important codes = our limit is 256 lines.
kupo15
Smash Hero
220ish. Our hands are tied without the Gecko 2
PanzerOceania
Smash Ace
with or without, we could REALLY use Gecko 2.0, hope those guys can pull through.
CyberGlitch
Smash Journeyman
That was exactly my point. Just because he has a great pivot grab doesn't mean that his standard grabs should be slowed down to make them more balanced, compensating for their fantastic range.
Then you look at Yoshi and Lucas, who have grabs MUCH harder to hit with and they have huge whiffed lag. I understand the lack of lag from whiffed long range grabs makes Olimar unique, I'm not asking that the characters receive that extreme a benefit, but why are their grabs being punished so much? Are you guys really thinking about character balance here?
And SCOTU, I think the 5 frame limit for jumping air dodges would be interesting, though it might add confusion when a 0 or 1 buffer is used (I suppose some practice could overcome this). A change like this could help prevent air dodges from being overpowered when momentum is added.
kupo15
Smash Hero
We are going to make air dodges stop all momentum so no worries about OP air dodges
CloneHat
Smash Champion
Don't change any moves, unless the character needs buffing! People like Olimar are already good enough.
kupo15
Smash Hero
once you lose it, you lose it until you jump again. Don't shield A Zairs
SketchHurricane
Smash Ace
Oh, I thought you were lobbying to buff Oli's grab. Just a little unclear on your point.
But I want to point out that we shouldn't buff things for X character based on another character, but instead focus on the particular style of the character in question. It's been said that all of lucas' grabs suck anyway, so what would really be the point of buffing his grab speed? If lucas players don't focus on the grab game anyway, buffing his grab speed does little. Yoshi doesn't have grab releases anymore, so I'm sure the incentive to grab took a big hit. We'll have to look to some Yoshi mains to determine whether looking at his grab is worth it. I don't know jack about Yoshi
The best thing for any character that needs a buff would be to first look at where their primary game lies, and patch any holes in it to give them clear strong points. IMO we should only patch weaknesses that seriously prevent the character from competing, since it's less interesting to homogenize.
kupo15
Smash Hero
Use this code to see what it would be like
Code:
Old momentum to prove a point
048668AC 60000000
C28669D8 00000008
C04283D8 FC011040
41820030 C0020008
40A00008 FC000050
807D007C 80630038
2C03000B 40A2000C
C03B0018 FC210032
2C030022 40800008
D03B0008 00000000
045A9328 3F4CCCCD
Solharath
[ZTD] CEO
Wouldn't this be completely counter-productive? It would seem that air dodging would be on par with power-shielding in terms of timing now, which no one can perform consistently and without fail in the middle of the fray.
It seems like it would actually be completely useless against characters with fast attacks(Fox/Falco/MK's uair comes to mind), and in some, if not most, cases, it leaves you open to attack more then let's you dodge them. In fact, it sounds like if you are anywhere near someone like Marth in the air, you're basically screwed, as his fair and bair are pretty quick and just sitting there, in mid-air, would probably give him ample time to set up a second attack when you get out of the invincibility frames. It basically gets rid of the only thing some characters can do in the air against other characters.
Unless, of course, I'm reading this wrong somehow. If you are going to change the Air Dodge system in any way, just disable the unlimited use and give someone just one air dodge to use as they will, while keeping it's general mechanics.
I'll let kupo respond to the rest of it, but I can just say doing that won't do much. It's very doubtful you will use an AD more than once in the air in B+, and if you do it usually puts you in danger of being punished for it.
I think we were instead discussing adding landing lag on it.
CloneHat
Smash Champion
How did they make it work in Melee?
kupo15
Smash Hero
You are reading it wrong. ADs won't be affected by the momentum code so ADs will act like Vb. Try the code I posted
Blank Mauser
Smash Champion
Yeah, its not going to really stop you like Melee airdodge. Its just going to reset your momentum as if you did a double jump. You can still move with it, you just won't have your dash momentum.
Eaode
Smash Champion
can i ask why?
why make AD's cancel momentum? is it too broken of an approach? can't you just grab them as they land?
I'd rather have AD retain my momentum, but have landing lag (like idk 5-10 frames? im pulling #s outta my *** here), than to have it cancel my momentum. people are complaing about falco's laser camping but then we're working on taking something out that would combat such projectile spam?
why make AD's cancel momentum? is it too broken of an approach? can't you just grab them as they land?
I'd rather have AD retain my momentum, but have landing lag (like idk 5-10 frames? im pulling #s outta my *** here), than to have it cancel my momentum. people are complaing about falco's laser camping but then we're working on taking something out that would combat such projectile spam?
Well if ya think about it. Only a few chars would have that great momentum air dodge approch (think falcon fox ect) so ONlY these chars with lots of momentum would get this great approach option. Just about every other char would have the same vbrawl air dodge approach that we are all used to.
Clever_Sleazoid
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2008
- Messages
- 188
I'm for AD cancelling momentum. It's just too good. If you're gonna pull out, you better not have an option afterward. Time your momentum jump so you don't have to bail.
Explain to me why you want to destroy Yoshi's recovery like this?
leafgreen386
Dirty camper
...
Bad wording on his part. He didn't mean ordinary momentum from jumps or other effects. He meant just the extra boost from doing a running jump. You'd still keep whatever other momentum you might've had from other sources.
CyberGlitch
Smash Journeyman
The airdodge fix for momentum sounds swell.
I'm not concerned about the grabs so much for their offensive importance (whether they lead to combos or act as finishers), but grabs are one of the most important defensive options in smash. I'm comparing to other characters to show how the changes I, and others, have suggested will in no way break the characters mentioned, but will give them more options, very important options. It's having these options for offensive and defensive capabilities that makes smash interesting, and which balances characters.Oh, I thought you were lobbying to buff Oli's grab. Just a little unclear on your point.
But I want to point out that we shouldn't buff things for X character based on another character, but instead focus on the particular style of the character in question. It's been said that all of lucas' grabs suck anyway, so what would really be the point of buffing his grab speed? If lucas players don't focus on the grab game anyway, buffing his grab speed does little. Yoshi doesn't have grab releases anymore, so I'm sure the incentive to grab took a big hit. We'll have to look to some Yoshi mains to determine whether looking at his grab is worth it. I don't know jack about Yoshi
The best thing for any character that needs a buff would be to first look at where their primary game lies, and patch any holes in it to give them clear strong points. IMO we should only patch weaknesses that seriously prevent the character from competing, since it's less interesting to homogenize.
My mistake. That sounds more reasonable.
kupo15
Smash Hero
Momentum =/= Normal DI without the code ever activated
Why don't people understand this? Momentum refers to the code being used to give you extra momentum. When we take this away, you don't stop. You just default back to your max air speed. This isn't HAD and Idk people treating it as such. Momentum is not Vb so taking it away means you go back to Vb air speed. I didn't think I needed to make this distinction :\
People should have tried the code I posted also. It explains exactly what the game plan is.
*Back to bomberman 64**
PanzerOceania
Smash Ace
I was already going to say 2 things.
1. it is better to go and play it to see what it actually is like.
2. I understand where you are coming from kupo, but you can understand how some people when they hear "momentum" they think all momentum, it's not that unreasonable of a misunderstanding.
but it's all been cleared up. So what's the latest topic, Falco's laser?
1. it is better to go and play it to see what it actually is like.
2. I understand where you are coming from kupo, but you can understand how some people when they hear "momentum" they think all momentum, it's not that unreasonable of a misunderstanding.
but it's all been cleared up. So what's the latest topic, Falco's laser?
Falco's laser cap was brought up a few pages back.
I still oppose it, because BoE is a fantastic CP for him (basically auto-win), but smart players won't CP that stage against a Falco...it's his one amazing stage. Plus, there's simply no need IMO. Melee lasers were better and he wasn't completely dominant.
I still oppose it, because BoE is a fantastic CP for him (basically auto-win), but smart players won't CP that stage against a Falco...it's his one amazing stage. Plus, there's simply no need IMO. Melee lasers were better and he wasn't completely dominant.
leafgreen386
Dirty camper
So you're saying that BoE is unfair for the rest of the cast because of falco, then? Auto-win situations are what we ban stages for.
Also...
Storm is the devil.
I worded that wrong.
I mean its a wonderful counterpick for him, as he can completely control the stage and opponent if the opponent has no idea how to deal with lasers. Of course the other characters have a chance against a Falco on this stage, but I see it as similar to FD against a Falco in Melee: its an uphill battle (unless your Marth). But isn't that the definition of a CP? Choose which serves your character or you personally the best.
I mean its a wonderful counterpick for him, as he can completely control the stage and opponent if the opponent has no idea how to deal with lasers. Of course the other characters have a chance against a Falco on this stage, but I see it as similar to FD against a Falco in Melee: its an uphill battle (unless your Marth). But isn't that the definition of a CP? Choose which serves your character or you personally the best.
There wasn't a legal stage as big and flat as BoE in Melee. And I'd argue that Brawl+ Falco's are much better for camping than Melee Falco's, simply because he can fire more of them in succession.
Arguing that Melee Falco's lasers didn't break him is a moot point. Bridge of Eldin wasn't in Melee. Melee Falco does not apply here.
And it's not like BoE would be a bad stage for Falco with a laser cap. He just wouldn't be able to camp someone from across the stage.
It's FD without the possibility to be gimped or lip of doomed. It would still be Falco's best stage easily.
No stage CP should be a guaranteed win. That made vBrawl boring as hell. They should simply tip the scales in your favor.
And now I return to lurking. >_>
Arguing that Melee Falco's lasers didn't break him is a moot point. Bridge of Eldin wasn't in Melee. Melee Falco does not apply here.
And it's not like BoE would be a bad stage for Falco with a laser cap. He just wouldn't be able to camp someone from across the stage.
It's FD without the possibility to be gimped or lip of doomed. It would still be Falco's best stage easily.
No stage CP should be a guaranteed win. That made vBrawl boring as hell. They should simply tip the scales in your favor.
And now I return to lurking. >_>
Ulevo
Smash Master
With the way Fox and Falcos lasers are turning out, I don't see a reason to really change the momentum for air dodges.
goodoldganon
Smash Champion
It massively hurts other characters projectile games. Samus is a big one. Without any form of decent landing lag on air dodges, SHADing becomes to safest and best approach for most characters.
One reason we didn't go with MAD was because it homogenizes approaches and momentum AD's do that characters. It's not like we are going to make ADs make you stop moving, we just want them to return you to your Brawl Air Velocity.
Now is as good of a time as any to discuss this, so why don't some of the people who support momentum AD's list the pros. Others will list the cons and we can start a debate. I'd love to, but a friend is on his way over to play B+.
Dan_X
Smash Lord
Don't change Falco's lasers. Seriously. Stupid. Eww. 
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