The Brawlplusery - Brawl+ Codeset - Updated 3rd April

[Malk]

just a few tweaks for marth;

larger hitbox for spike

Yea Marth is in need of a buff... oh wait

 

[V-K]

Still need PAL Plusery! x__X

 

[Revven]

We can't change them yet. There is the possibility we could pull it off . Maybe.

Or like, if we did, they'd take up too many lines.

 

[shanus]

Still need PAL Plusery! x__X

Paprika has kinda disappeared a bit. I'll pm him later and see if we can get that set converted for you guys.

 

[Sanu]

So, myself and two other competitive Melee players went crazy on the newest codeset yesterday.

We took a bunch of videos that display Zelda's ****tyness (Too high short hop, near impossible to sweetspot foot), Fox's overpoweredness against heavy characters (down air to up-tilt. Smash DI does not help either) Peach's super follow ups (Dair has waaaaay to much hitstun and jab basically owns everyone's shield, accentuated by the fact that Peach has near 0 lag on her aerials now).

I'll play around with them and upload a bunch tonight.

 

[goodoldganon]

Ya, Fox owns the heavies a little too hard. I don't know what to do because the drills are such a good part of his game. Fox gets combo'd like a mofo, so maybe that's the balance there. The heavies only need 2-3 solid combos to put Fox in KO range.

Is there really nothing to combo the boot into? I believe it's stronger then the Knee so I'm not expecting as many options, but it should be a more reliable kill to set up.

No comment on Peach, no one plays that hoe. (In my circle of friends )

 

[Sanu]

My friend is probably one of the best Zelda players (melee) in Canada, and he couldn't do **** with her in Brawl+ <.<;

The videos will be proof enough, haha. He tried comboing into it with different approaches, but most of her attacks have way too much knockback... not enough to actually kill anyone though XD

 

[GameSystem]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=218082
Does nobody read the character boards?
You probably can't DI fox dair because they lowered hitlag. It's a pointless code. Just get rid of it.

 

[Sanu]

^ We don't play Brawl , we play Brawl+; sorry. The fact is, most of those combos won't even work in Brawl+ anyways.

 

[GameSystem]

How does a real combo that worked in vBrawl NOT work in brawl+? It defies all logic. Zelda short hop was reduced to .95 in the 1.3 beta. It should be even easier to land now.

 

[shanus]

My friend is probably one of the best Zelda players (melee) in Canada, and he couldn't do **** with her in Brawl+ <.<;

The videos will be proof enough, haha. He tried comboing into it with different approaches, but most of her attacks have way too much knockback... not enough to actually kill anyone though XD

Ask your friend to post here with what changes they would like to see to zelda. Remember, hitboxes cannot be altered. Speed of moves and character physics are fair game. Eventually, knockback as well.

 

[Sanu]

Yeah, I know about the hitboxes. That's not an issue anyways, the issue is lack of opportunities for using the attack. I'll tell him about the d-tilt combos though.

They've also said that Zelda is really big, clunky, and hard to maneuver in the air.

 

[shanus]

I downthrow to toe can work on some chars at low %, but not all. However, it can be used nicely in a mix up game as chasing their side DI with shorthop nairs or even dash attack or dash cancel dtilt to toe or regrab. She does play very well right now, but I'm all for optimizing.

 

[peachfvl]

yes finally someone with peach vids.

also the ppl in my country´s gaming forum are starting to gain some interest in B+, hopefully they will like it enough to host a tournament, but the main gaming sponsor here says they wont use B+ so we have to make a independent tourney and search for a nice venue

 

[The Cape]

yes finally someone with peach vids.

also the ppl in my country´s gaming forum are starting to gain some interest in B+, hopefully they will like it enough to host a tournament, but the main gaming sponsor here says they wont use B+ so we have to make a independent tourney and search for a nice venue

Um dude?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUC_jV655y0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVKour-2_cQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2-sSbbdX7M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDu6PyllpyA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQqra9W7yPQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtvuqhNrn80

 

[cAm8ooo]

How does a real combo that worked in vBrawl NOT work in brawl+? It defies all logic. Zelda short hop was reduced to .95 in the 1.3 beta. It should be even easier to land now.

I figured it defied all logic too. But some things actually may not combo. For instance the Gonzo combo no longer works for Kirby. Grab>up-air>reverse up-tilt>b-air. The opponent can now just DI farther to the left or right and out of up-airs range at times. Also, technically i guess you could count chain grabs as combos and those dont work now either soo most the time your right but occasionally there are some combos that no longer work.

 

[Greenpoe]

I think getting rid of the "No stale moves" code would balance things a little more, since the code encourages characters to just spam their best KO moves (Fox: U-smash) without punishment.

 

[Revven]

I think getting rid of the "No stale moves" code would balance things a little more, since the code encourages characters to just spam their best KO moves (Fox: U-smash) without punishment.

There's multiple reasons why we have the code on.

1. Removes ridiculous Utilt spam
2. It's a terrible mechanic
3. Makes the game take longer and harder to kill people.
4. ???
5. Profit!

Nobody with half a brain is going to spam a singular move. And if you lose to that type of playstyle, it's your own skills, not the game's fault. We plan to have damage decay if it's possible but, knockback decay is never coming back.

 

[OmniOstrich]

Today is my first day playing and here are my thoughts:

Can Jiggs rest get a buff? It should kill at somewhere between 35-45 depending on the character. I feel so cool when I finish a combo with rest and then i take a full smash to the face and die =(

Also are grab release combos intended or not? Lucario and Charizard have some really good pummels, especially without decay, and they are also free combos on a lot of characters.

Arrow gimping with Pit is stupid easy, and really good. At 15-25% a simple dtilt>uair>fair/bair or dthrow>uair>fair and then just rain the arrows on them a large portion of the cast stands no chance of getting back.

Snake's recovery is now really bad, if you get knocked offstage you basically HAVE to c4 jump, and it kills you at 100-110% anyways. I haven't tested everyone but im thinking about it now and realizing that a lot of characters probably have similiar issues, except that snake is a heavy, removing his ability to live to higher %s makes a lot bigger difference than for other characters.

I KO'ed bowser off the top with Whorenado after a series of uairs at 75% idk what the intent of lower vertical height was to stop this particular tactic or not but just so you know its very doable.

I'll be back later tonight for any responses/questions about what I have said.

 

[IM_A_HUSTLA]

WE HAVE AMAZING NEWS!!!!!!!!!

Our code capacity problem has been solved!!!!(KINDA)

http://wii.qj.net/Wii-homebrew-WiiCM-v1-1/pg/49/aid/128932

500 LINES!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Shell]

Oh, wow. If this works, then we don't even need to wait for GeckOS 2.0. Unless we get into some crazy intricate character balances I can't see us using more than 500 lines. Joy.

 

[cAm8ooo]

WE HAVE AMAZING NEWS!!!!!!!!!

Our code capacity problem has been solved!!!!(KINDA)

http://wii.qj.net/Wii-homebrew-WiiCM-v1-1/pg/49/aid/128932

500 LINES!!!!!!!!!!!

Kix posted about this in the Code Agenda forum but it got lost in all the momentum hype

 

[Revven]

WE HAVE AMAZING NEWS!!!!!!!!!

Our code capacity problem has been solved!!!!(KINDA)

http://wii.qj.net/Wii-homebrew-WiiCM-v1-1/pg/49/aid/128932

500 LINES!!!!!!!!!!!

Wrong. That only allows for more than one code set per game and allows you to SELECT which codes you want on to have a total of 256 lines. You can't get past the limit with another program as it is the Wii's limitations itself. I ALREADY answered this in another thread, that program does nothing more than become a Wii code manager of the PC one except only for the Wii.

 

[CountKaiser]

So, wait, how am I supposed to use this? The readme isn't really helping me. Do I install it on the SD card itself or what?

 

[Revven]

So, wait, how am I supposed to use this? The readme isn't really helping me. Do I install it on the SD card itself or what?

Forget it, it DOESN'T do what IM A HUSTLA suggests it does. All it does is allow you to choose which codes you want on from the two text files you have loaded on your SD Card. The limit is always and will be 256 lines. Just wait for Gecko 2.0 when we can do patching, jesus.

 

[CountKaiser]

Does anyone know when Gecko 2.0 is supposed to come out?

 

[Shell]

Paradise... lost

@CountKaiser: All I've ever heard is "soon."

 

[ShortFuse]

I would like stale moves to be kept on. It gives the game more variety and I don't think it needs to be taken out to make the game more competitive. It makes you really hold on to that powerful move (like Fox's up+B) to makes you start choosing wisely.

But I guess the uTilt spam can be a problem though, especially with this new gravity system.

Also, I'm not sure where the benefit is from removing auto sweetspot. I've mained marth since 2002 and I know that fSmash the edge is very cheap. It's not really a think of skill but "let's make the game unnecessarily harder". Kinda why most agreed to Auto L-Cancel to make the game more about mindgames and skill than finger reflexes.

Having ASL off means limiting recovery options. Everybody have to recovery from a certain distance and it feels like an unnecessary complication. With Marth, I don't mind as much since I get 5 frames of invincibility with Up+B, but with characters like Luigi, Fox, Falco, Wolf and Link, consider stage recovery to really hinder them in terms of balance. I'm not sure why we want to bring back that ******* Melee aspect. I don't think anybody really enjoyed it. The only argument I see is "it makes you require more skill to recovery."

If that's the logic we're applying then why don't we just get rid of the new gravity and hitstun tweaks and make it about skill and make it a lot harder to string combos.

It seems more like an excuse to make Brawl+ more like Melee.

 

[shanus]

I would like stale moves to be kept on. It gives the game more variety and I don't think it needs to be taken out to make the game more competitive. It makes you really hold on to that powerful move (like Fox's up+B) to makes you start choosing wisely.

But I guess the uTilt spam can be a problem though, especially with this new gravity system.

Also, I'm not sure where the benefit is from removing auto sweetspot. I've mained marth since 2002 and I know that fSmash the edge is very cheap. It's not really a think of skill but "let's make the game unnecessarily harder". Kinda why most agreed to Auto L-Cancel to make the game more about mindgames and skill than finger reflexes.

Having ASL off means limiting recovery options. Everybody have to recovery from a certain distance and it feels like an unnecessary complication. With Marth, I don't mind as much since I get 5 frames of invincibility with Up+B, but with characters like Luigi, Fox, Falco, Wolf and Link, consider stage recovery to really hinder them in terms of balance. I'm not sure why we want to bring back that bast.ard Melee aspect. I don't think anybody really enjoyed it. The only argument I see is "it makes you require more skill to recovery."

If that's the logic we're applying then why don't we just get rid of the new gravity and hitstun tweaks and make it about skill and make it a lot harder to string combos.

It seems more like an excuse to make Brawl+ more like Melee.

Its easy to recover still with noASL. This debate has happened a million times already. It improves the edge game and should make it harder for someone who gets knocked off to recover. Overall, ASL is lame. I'm also lazy to list everything out, but yeah, its not hard to recover.

 

[Shell]

We've discussed all of these points before. The debate of No ASL left an overwhelming majority in favor of it. If you'd like, I can PM a link to our forums where we've already covered all of this -- no need C/P it here again.

And keeping Fox's Up+B fresh because it's "that powerful move??"

...wut?

 

[CountKaiser]

NASL brings back the edgeguarding game, which was non-existant in Brawl. It makes the person recovering actually aim their recovery, instead of just doing such with no risk at all.

And space animals are supposed to have a mediocre recovery. It balances them out.

 

[ShortFuse]

Its easy to recover still with noASL. This debate has happened a million times already. It improves the edge game and should make it harder for someone who gets knocked off to recover. Overall, ASL is lame. I'm also lazy to list everything out, but yeah, its not hard to recover.

I'm just saying why? I played Melee competitively. I'm a Marth player so I know I'm going to be spamming it. Now with this Edge Hug, it's even easier to edge guard. (though I used to do bAir/bB to grab the ledge in Melee).
I know it makes it harder and I think that's really the only case. Having ASL doesn't break the competitive play. Having ASL off seems more like "Let's make it like Melee" so it's harder. I don't know. I'm a Marth player and I've always felt like it was kinda cheap. I never really had trouble coming back in Melee.

Looking at Ike's fSmash, I can see it can get even worse. It's way too punishing to miss the edge and for the Ike player, you hardly need to skill to know how to fSmash.

It just seems more of a punishing aspect than rewarding.

I'm not saying this is hard for me, because whatever is finalized I'll play with. I have the Melee experience, but I think you need more skill to beat somebody without having easy edge gimps to rely on.

 

[Blank Mauser]

The reason we should keep NoASL isn't just to make it harder to sweetspot, but also to be able to mix-up the ledge game AND keep edgeguarding from being too broken. If everyone can just sweetspot, then combined with lagless edges they'd just keep sweetspotting it over and over regaining both their ledge jump and another double jump to be used to edgeguard you. Right now that strength is exclusive to tether characters and it balances them out because they're so easy to edgeguard themselves.

 

[CountKaiser]

Exactly, it's made to punish those who recover predictably. It makes moves such as GDub's dtilt useful again.

 

[Revven]

Having ASL off seems more like "Let's make it like Melee" so it's harder.

Melee isn't the only Smash game you know, there was a prequel called "Smash 64" and it had the very same core mechanics as Melee. Again, I stress the fact that most of the mechanics we have added to Brawl+ were core Smash mechanics taken out of vBrawl and we're only adding them back in because it's what makes Smash a competitive game.

It should take skill to recover and it should take skill to edgeguard. Really, the player who got thrown offstage should work to have to get back on as they let themselves get put into that situation. They could've avoided it, therefore, it's not something that is "breaking" the game in this sense.

It's not making it more like Melee because Smash 64 had this mechanic as well, Sakurai just wanted to baby newbies and decided to add ASL into vBrawl, which by no means is a core mechanic to Smash, it is a new one which is flawed and makes recovering too easy.

Like Sakurai says, "You Must Recover!" Seriously this time though because there's NASL.

Edit: Also, ledgestalling shouldn't exist and ASL is in part of the reason why planking was such a powerful tactic in vBrawl. NASL takes this away, as Blank and Kaiser already said before me.

 

[ShortFuse]

Which is my point i raised before. Let's make it harder to recovery. This is making the game harder defensively and easier offensively. If we want to make the game easier to be offensive, we need better defensive options. The ASL edge grab spamming doesn't matter as much because ASL won't register unless you at a certain vertical distance from the edge. Also, in Melee, you can spam grab the edge with fast fall and your second jump.

Where's the consensus in these tweaks? It actually making the game require less mindgames and skill to win. Easier combos, easier edge guarding. Maybe I would be happier with minor tweaks to brawl like attack speed fixes and getting rid of chain grabs and tripping.

Where are the defensive tweaks?

 

[Blank Mauser]

Brawl's defensive game is already pretty overpowered. All of its mechanics are hard to be punished and Brawl's airdodge adds to approaches and mindgames itself. Regular Brawl was ALL about mindgames and pressure and Brawl+ just adds to the reward for correctly utilizing them. Its not making it too "easy."

 

[Shell]

Why are you guys even bothering with these arguments again? If someone is too lazy to check out our forums for something that has been argued extensively in the past I don't think they even warrant a response, personally. But I'm just hardcore like that.

 

[ShortFuse]

We've discussed all of these points before. The debate of No ASL left an overwhelming majority in favor of it. If you'd like, I can PM a link to our forums where we've already covered all of this -- no need C/P it here again.

And keeping Fox's Up+B fresh because it's "that powerful move??"

...wut?

uSmash, sorry

 

[Greenpoe]

Edit: Nevermind.