The Brawlplusery - Brawl+ Codeset - Updated 3rd April

[thesage]

Lower jump start is a good buff to aerial characters since it lets them do aerials quicker. Sh are way too easy to do in vbrawl (I actually have to try to full hop on purpose).

 

[storm92]

Lower jump start is a good buff to aerial characters since it lets them do aerials quicker. Sh are way too easy to do in vbrawl (I actually have to try to full hop on purpose).

Same, with the FH thing.
Its not difficult at all to do them still.

 

[Malk]

youd have to speed it up a lot to be useful. more then would be healthy. I'd just change the hitlag modifier.

i don't support raising the knockback of uair, that will just make it more versatile then it already is. however, increasing the ending lag on uair makes sense and also helps to balance her character. she can't chain uairs forever now and all increasing the knockback would do is make it easier to combo with up-b PLUS give her even more killing options. she doesn't need more killing options. I realize the goal of this project is to give out far more buffs then nerfs but you can't hesitate to give nerfs where they are needed.

as a former zss main i can tell you that she needs this nerf so that she can be a balanced competitive character.

edit: this is stingers dammit i need to log out of this account

I think increasing the ending lag would be a good solution. I would like to discuss some of the things i suggested though, not to say that the discussion about zss is bad/unnecessary.

 

[GPDP]

Ditto. I love being able to jump faster. It makes characters like Ganon and Bowser feel less sluggish, and it also makes it easier to time certain aerial moves.

 

[goodoldganon]

I think increasing the ending lag would be a good solution. I would like to discuss some of the things i suggested though, not to say that the discussion about zss is bad/unnecessary.

I sent you a PM

 

[Pyrostormer]

Bill what else do you want discussed because I think character balance is exactly what we need to discuss right now

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

you guys don't understand. the jump start animation makes no difference how much you change it. it just makes short hops harder to do. jump animation speed makes a much bigger difference.

 

[stingers]

there's nothing wrong with making short hops harder to do because they were way too easy to do in normal brawl.

 

[thesage]

jump start speed also affects how fast aerials can come out. It's really dumb they added so much of it in brawl.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

there's nothing wrong with making short hops harder to do because they were way too easy to do in normal brawl.

WHAT?

let me put it this way. my two friends that aren't all competitive but still decent have trouble doing short hops and refuse to play with the jump start speed which doesn't do a ******* thing in the first place.

 

[stingers]

then tell them to get better.

I much prefer this. I can actually full jump now. It took effort to full jump in Brawl-; that's the OPPOSITE of how it should be.

There's absolutely no reason to change it back to how it was before. None. Nada. Zilch. If your friends can't short hop in this then they need to practice it.

 

[thesage]

It's like the only technical thing in brawl+ lol.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

this is the stupidest conversation ever

you want to make short hops harder for the sake of making short hops harder. all based on the fact that short hoping is technical.. yet you had trouble doing full hops????

**** this i'm talking to someone who knows what they're talking about

 

[stingers]

I think you're misunderstanding something.

All I said was Full Jumps took effort and Short Hops didn't. I never had any trouble Full Jumping when I actually wanted to do one; I just think it's silly that you want to go back to that. It's not like doing Short Hops is hard in Brawl+, but the stricter timing makes it easier to what you want.

 

[Almas]

It's based on the idea that if you tap the jump button at the pace at which you would normally play the game, you end up short hopping when you'd want to full hop. It happens to me fairly often, and it's certainly very frustrating.

For an easy example, try performing the grounded footstool jump comboes as Jigglypuff. Against a tall character like D³ or DK, do a fullhop dair, then footstool into dair and repeat. The method of tapping jump then flicking the c-stick is utterly ineffective, because you have to hold jump for so durned long to actually perform a FH. The result is that you have to perform a funky slide from x->a.

So I agree with jump speed changes, provided they're always kept in moderation. It should never be melee-sheik difficulty to perform a SH.

 

[kupo15]

^^^This.


1.3 jump speed is a pretty good setting almas and its already in the backroom set atm I think

 

[stingers]

Melee-shiek difficulty?

Maybe I have some abnormally fast fingers or something <_<

 

[thesage]

Lol, same here stingers, same here.

I admit, I didn't get it immediately, but like 2 hours of practice and you get it down 100% of the time lol.

 

[ph00tbag]

Technically, Melee Sheik, Samus, Fox, Marth, CF and a few others all had the same SH window, and they weren't too difficult once you got used to it.

I don't understand what the whole issue is with something being too "easy" in Brawl. I'll never understand this argument, and I think its highly specious, particularly because a lot people will say, "x is too easy," but when you ask them why there's auto-l-canceling, they'll make some kind of noise about the window being too difficult in Brawl+. I don't think ease is a very strong argument. The short hop window doesn't affect game balance, so why are we wasting lines on it?

 

[stingers]

If we ever need more lines then I'm sure it'll be one of the first things to go, but seeing as how we haven't hit the 256 line limit yet, why take it out?

 

[thesage]

It also speeds up gameplay without screwing with the physics.

 

[Yeroc]

Actually, it was Sheik, Samus, Kirby, Pika, Pichu, Fox, and I think IC's. Maybe one other. Falcon, Marth, etc. were a frame slower.

 

[Blank Mauser]

I think jump speed feels a lot less awkward this way. I never had any trouble sh'ing in either games with any character, I guess my friend just gave me really slick instructions and I always thought it was one of the easier things to do. o_O

I do still get annoyed by the window for short hop in vBrawl sometimes though. I swear its like I have to hold the button to make sure I get full jumps. Its probably the reason all my approaches are full jumps now though lol.

 

[stingers]

No way Fox and Pikachu had the same SH window.

I had trouble with Fox's for awhile, but Pikachu/Pichu are so easy.

Maybe it's just a mental thing

 

[Yeroc]

It's true.

ZSS's p.wire combos aren't quite as broken as one would expect. With the level of hitstun currently on 3.1, you have to have perfect air control and DI prediction to wire as soon as your uair finishes before they come out of hitstun. Still **** good, but in no way inescapable.

 

[ph00tbag]

If we ever need more lines then I'm sure it'll be one of the first things to go, but seeing as how we haven't hit the 256 line limit yet, why take it out?

I think it's something that should be given attention to beforehand, because I don't think the game should be changed unnecessarily. But the end result, I suppose, is the same.

It's true.

ZSS's p.wire combos aren't quite as broken as one would expect. With the level of hitstun currently on 3.1, you have to have perfect air control and DI prediction to wire as soon as your uair finishes before they come out of hitstun. Still **** good, but in no way inescapable.

The heigtened gravity and hitstun makes people fall faster, too, making it harder to pull off at higher percents.

Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. Really, uair -> wire -> uair should never happen anyway. It's really situational.

 

[stingers]

I get Uair -> up-b -> uairs all the time.

zss is really easy to use and gets too much reward from no risk. you can set up a 50% combo with a dtilt. or a side b. or a jab. you can't punish ANY of those. it's insane.

 

[ph00tbag]

I get Uair -> up-b -> uairs all the time.

Get opponents who can DI the uair.

 

[Blank Mauser]

Don't forget air momentum will make it easier too. =P

 

[leafgreen386]

Actually, it was Sheik, Samus, Kirby, Pika, Pichu, Fox, and I think IC's. Maybe one other. Falcon, Marth, etc. were a frame slower.

This is correct. They all had a 4 frame jump. Marth actually had a 7 frame jump. I know falcon and falco had 5 and 6 frame jumps, but I forget which one had which. lol Sh windows were determined by half of your total jump frames, and I believe it rounded up.

And in response to the people who think they have abnormally fast fingers or something... hello? Anyone who plays melee competitively and plays sheik or fox does that routinely, as well. It's harder for some people because... it's a 2 frame window, but it's no where near multishining in terms of techskill requirements.

Now, even though I do sh with the control stick for shdl in melee, I still think it would be ******** to make SHs in brawl+ that difficult to perform, seeing as a lot of aerials in this game are much easier to do from a control stick sh and still finish before hitting the ground. Perhaps a slight reduction in the sh window would be good, but eh... not too much. I will admit performing a FJ in this game can be tedious at times.

 

[stingers]

phoot, i'm pretty sure i got at least one uair -> up b -> uair on you as well <_<

 

[Blank Mauser]

Props to Leaf for using the control stick to sh. Could never do that srsly.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Don't forget air momentum will make it easier too. =P

Air momentum or dash momentum? Dash momentum would actually make it harder, as the opponent could just DI behind you and you'd go flying past them.

 

[ph00tbag]

phoot, i'm pretty sure i got at least one uair -> up b -> uair on you as well <_<

We've never played this version.

And I've gotten the combo off at least once in this version. It doesn't make it any less situational and dependent on my opponent DIing wrong.

 

[Alopex]

Almas, I am perplexed.

If I recall correctly, the ID values for the Special Attacks have not yet been discovered have they?

How did you get different gravity values to apply in a Special Attack-specific manner, then? (MK Nado and Link's UpB)

 

[spunit262]

Almas, I am perplexed.

If I recall correctly, the ID values for the Special Attacks have not yet been discovered have they?

How did you get different gravity values to apply in a Special Attack-specific manner, then? (MK Nado and Link's UpB)

They have but they're not on the list I have, and it isn't always consistency from character to character. Almas used some random things in the registers to find the difference.

To Almas: the bp to find new values is 8077F780 and the value is in r28.

Neutral Bs are 112
Side Bs 113
Up Bs 114
Down Bs 115

 

[B3Brawler]

just a few tweaks for marth;

-slightly increased gravity

larger hitbox for spike

 

[Dark Sonic]

^^No. Marth doesn't need any buffs and we can't change hitboxes anyway.

 

[zxeon]

They have but they're not on the list I have, and it isn't always consistency from character to character. Almas used some random things in the registers to find the difference.

To Almas: the bp to find new values is 8077F780 and the value is in r28.

Neutral Bs are 112
Side Bs 113
Up Bs 114
Down Bs 115

Thank very much spunit.

^^No. Marth doesn't need any buffs and we can't change hitboxes anyway.

We can't change them yet. There is the possibility we could pull it off . Maybe.

 

[kupo15]

0 is just a placeholder for now, but if we find something else we want to modify there, we can.

How about making this dash speed?