The Brawlplusery - Brawl+ Codeset - Updated 3rd April

[Magus420]

Sheik's up-B explosion, Zelda's din's fire, Samus' charged shot/missiles/bombs, Doc's pills, Mario/Luigi's fireballs, ICs ice blocks, Yoshi's eggs, Link/YLink's boomerangs, Pika/Pichu's thunder jolts, M2's shadow balls, and G&W's sausages all staled in both damage and knockback in Melee. There may be a few more, but all other moves only staled in damage. If you noticed they're all projectiles, though not all projectiles staled this way for whatever reason (item based, living, and laser type projectiles don't).

 

[Nintendevil]

As much as I hate Gay uptilt crap, I hate Not being able to combo at higher percentages too. I guess once characters reach 70%, the opponents knockback on that character is reduced by 15 percent????

inb4flames...

 

[leafgreen386]

Sheik's up-B explosion, Zelda's din's fire, Samus' charged shot/missiles/bombs, Doc's pills, Mario/Luigi's fireballs, ICs ice blocks, Yoshi's eggs, Link/YLink's boomerangs, Pika/Pichu's thunder jolts, M2's shadow balls, and G&W's sausages all staled in both damage and knockback in Melee. There may be a few more, but all other moves only staled in damage. If you noticed they're all projectiles, though not all projectiles staled this way for whatever reason (item based, living, and laser type projectiles don't).

I thought it was all B moves? Since I've heard people mention that rest is affected by this system.

As much as I hate Gay uptilt crap, I hate Not being able to combo at higher percentages too. I guess once characters reach 70%, the opponents knockback on that character is reduced by 15 percent????

No.

 

[kupo15]

And personally, I am for stale moves

I am also. Stale damage.

 

[Magus420]

Nah, it's not all B moves. Rest doesn't stale beyond damage, though the large hit it takes from that (does 28 normally I think?) can make it seem like it does since a small amount of damage makes a noticeable difference with its huge power/growth.

 

[Dark Sonic]

As much as I hate Gay uptilt crap, I hate Not being able to combo at higher percentages too. I guess once characters reach 70%, the opponents knockback on that character is reduced by 15 percent????

umm...finish your combos earlier? Did you know that at 100+ percent Melee Marth could not combo into kill moves? Somehow we managed.

/blatant flaming lol.

But yeah, not really that big a deal.

 

[Sukai]

Dark Sonic has a point, combos are fun, but you just have to accept that comboing cannot be done all the time.

Would it be possible too look into the stale move neg. code and edit it to just stale damage.
Or try to make it character/move specific. It's not like we have to worry about line limits anymore.

 

[GHNeko]

ANy scrub can utilt combo till the sun goes down, but once you learn how to DI, utilt doesnt look so hot anymore.

The problem with alot of combos that occur is because of angle changes on certain moves, and the overall reduction of hitlag which makes DI harder, and the faster pace, people arent still fully adept at DIing properly. That and I'm sure they havnt played against a proficent mainer of each character who uses the full moveset.

We like have to completely relearn to DI against alot of moves now.

 

[PosthumusES]

Have you guys tried out Kupo’s latest adjustment on the plussery set? If not, then you should. Why? Because when Brawl+ goes “Gold” or finish, when they play the Plussery set, they are going to have a feeling that this is vBrawl with hitstun and some balance. The way Kupo’s set is different from the Plussery set is that it will keep the interest in the game which will help brawl+'s lasting appeal. Rather than watching boring and stale combos getting repeated, there is more of an emphasis into outsmarting your opponent multiple times instead of just the first hit. Being able to improvise on those combo will keep the game fresh and new.

For example, we all played Melee and it was great, it has the combos, the different play style, and is ability to improvise combos instead of using the same ones over and over again. Even today people who play Melee have make changes to their combos, their strategy to incorporate new ideas, and this will keep the game alive. The way the Plussery set is heading, I feel that people will eventually think in there head “Is this game going to evolve?” or “What can I do to make this better?” My point of view of the Plussery set right now is “Okay, got to do this move after this one because I know it will work but I don't have the tools to try and mix things up without severely putting myself at a risk. All the confidence I get happens during the hitstun phase instead of in kupo's set where you can keep the momentum going after hitstun.

The combo system in Kupo’s set flows better and not only that, I have to outsmart people more often to keep the combo going than the plussery set thus making each match more exciting to watch then the last one. In the Plussery set when I get combo, I say to myself “Wow, that combo was pretty easy to do. I thought epic combos took more skill than this?” If this the way the Plussery set makes me feel, then I’m sure it will also make other future Brawl+ player feel the same way. We don’t want newcomer's first experience to feel as if they got comboed bad because the hitstun was a little over the top. We want them to know that they got comboed badly because of a number of mistakes made throughout the combo and not a result from the one mistake that startede the combo. I prefer this direction that Kupo is taking the game with over the Plussery's direction.

The combo system the Plussery has is stale and the matches monotonous and not exciting to watch. The higher hitstun and the floaty nature of the plussery match really makes the game feel sluggish. I would hope that the Plussery will adopt most of Kupo's ideas in their set in the near future

 

[Magus420]

If damage and knockback are calculated at two different points in time (damage being on the 1st frame of hitlag and knockback at the end I'm guessing?), would it be possible to overwrite the resulting stale multiplier for a hit with 1 after damage is calculated and added but before knockback gets calculated?

 

[Sukai]

If damage and knockback are calculated at two different points in time (damage being on the 1st frame of hitlag and knockback at the end I'm guessing?), would it be possible to overwrite the resulting stale multiplier for a hit with 1 after damage is calculated and added but before knockback gets calculated?

I don't think that the stale system works on the fly like that.
It seems to just keep a record of the last hit, and the record does the calculations, judging by how much of this "attack property" is in the record.
It'd seem more likely to edit the way the record calculates.

 

[Problem2]

Actually...it is.

Drop shield:7 frames
Raise shield:1 frame

7+1=8

Grab (non tether):7-8 frames.

That's right, the window is EXACTLY THE SAME.

Makes ya think doesn't it.

Personally, I think the shieldstun is just fine on strong hits. However, my biggest gripe with shieldstun right now is rapid jabs/multihit moves. Currently, most rapid hit moves lock you in your shield, meaning you are unable to drop it entirely (you are in shieldstun the entire time) and litterally cannot do anything except watch your shield get eaten until they shieldstab you. This is especially apparent against larger characters (especially Bowser, who would otherwise be able to up B his way through these moves). You know sometimes I just want to let go of my shield and take the hit so that my shield doesn't take so much damage...but I can't do that because even if I let go of the shield button I'm still stuck in my shield.

oh wtf? That's just weird. I guess that explains why a Dedede was able to grab me out of dancing blade later today. Even so, Marth can probably out range any fast grab (maybe even D3 if you're careful. I don't have actual knowledge, this is just from brief testing). And yes, I think that the jabs are too effective against the shield. That's why I would drop the additive (the plus 20) instead of the changing the multiplier or divider. I don't notice any difference from strong hits, but the smaller hits don't stun so long this way.

 

[Sukai]

Question.
Is the Fast Fall during tumble in 4.0?

 

[jalued]

whats the difference between 4.0 and 4.0BETA? i think i have the beta online, but im not sure. can it still play offline properly? i might go back to old 4.0 tbh, im not sure atm

 

[Deleted member]

4.0 is the same as beta 4.0 as we still don't have an official release.

on the other hand, we have 4.1 beta which is not our current official set, but it is pretty good.

http://shanemulliganphotography.blogsite.org:6111/~shane/SmashCodes/4-7-2009/

 

[Revven]

Paprika it'd be best if you didn't link to that on the boards. It's only for testing in the IRC.

 

[XSilvenX]

One of the biggest problems with Brawl was stale moves.

It forced us to do 3 stocks because DDD's and Snakes normally lived to 200% or higher.

My stance on stales moves = no.

Gay uptilt crap at the beginning sure will build up easy damage and takes little to no skill but it's not gonna kill you. In Melee that was the norm. Pretty much utilt until about 10 to 20% with most characters then move onto stronger aerials...something you just gotta get used to. After that it'll feel like


In NO other fighter is there stale moves. Yes there is damage scaling within combos but if you get hit with the same hit one after another indepently you take the SAME damage EVERY TIME.

The only thing I would support is damage scaling for hits within hitstun, so that utilt combos don't do x+x+x+x rather x+(x-2)+(x-3) or whatever...so on and so forth. You get the idea..but I supposed that would be a hard code to write so forget it..

Other than that stale moves is ********. If you're dumb enough to get hit with smash attacks over and over then you just suck..face it. Stop blaming the game, you're a BAD player...sorry but it's true. Not to mention it makes the game sooo much slower and it's a HUGE disadvantage to characters with limited viable KO moves who rely on repeatedly using their best KO move to win. Ness is a great example.

Let's see. What can he kill with?

1.Bat
2.Back air..
3.Headbutt at very high damage...situations rarely arise though

Ummmm that's it... Yup that's IT! Bat is not something you're gonna be landing a lot (and yes I know because I play as Ness sometimes) So I have to depend on bair or gimping with fair. If there were stale moves ...my bairs would barely kill (no pun intended). Upair headbutt is an OK killing move but not something you'll consistently score KO's with so it's more on the situational site and not a mainstay.

Stale moves..what a goofy idea .

"I'm stupid and keep getting hit by a move so I want it to be weaker so next time I'm stupid and get hit again it does less damage"

 

[Revven]

Yeah Silven I agree, although, damage stale would fix projectile damage >.>

 

[Deleted member]

Paprika it'd be best if you didn't link to that on the boards. It's only for testing in the IRC.

oh, my bad thought it was okay because it was being linked by others too, but that was on irc.
should i remove the link?

 

[DekuBoy]

The custom CSS will be awesome. Will it include the two Ice Climbers seperate?

 

[Deleted member]

lol, that would be so funny

 

[XSilvenX]

More thoughts..

Yeah Silven I agree, although, damage stale would fix projectile damage >.>

Projectiles aren't really any different, those always staled in Melee.. and yes in Melee damage (in general) AND knockback respectively got stale for repeated attacks but the reason why it didn't effect KO's that much because the knockback/damage ratio was a lot different. For example a 25% move in Melee would DESTROY anyone past 100%. But in Brawl a 25% move (Samus' charge shot) can barely kill at 100%. This is simply because of changes in the engine. In Melee 100% was the KO zone. Living to 150% was RARE because tilts could KO at 120% or so. But in Brawl that is not the case, damage staling even if it was applied the way Melee's scaling was calculated would cause major differences in how long people lived and just make matches even more boring to watch. Hence why people lose interest in watching finals matches on Youtube for Brawl lately..

Watching Ally survive DMBrandon's shuttle loops was not impressive to me, all it showed me was that Brawl is way too aggressive with it's damage scaling and not to mention it got twice as worse when momentum cancelling was figured out. Ever since Brawl+ I haven't even looked back and one of the major reason is because when someone gets hit you don't have that sense of mystery whether someone is gonna survive or not. You pretty much know right off the bat when someone is gonna die and I love that. I don't see it as a Melee or N64 trait..I see it as a "smash" trait that should have been in Brawl ever since release.

 

[shanus]

Projectiles aren't really any different, those always staled in Melee.. and yes in Melee damage (in general) AND knockback respectively got stale for repeated attacks but the reason why it didn't effect KO's that much because the knockback/damage ratio was a lot different. For example a 25% move in Melee would DESTROY anyone past 100%. But in Brawl a 25% move (Samus' charge shot) can barely kill at 100%. This is simply because of changes in the engine. In Melee 100% was the KO zone. Living to 150% was RARE because tilts could KO at 120% or so. But in Brawl that is not the case, damage staling even if it was applied the way Melee's scaling was calculated would cause major differences in how long people lived and just make matches even more boring to watch. Hence why people lose interest in watching finals matches on Youtube for Brawl lately..

Watching Ally survive DMBrandon's shuttle loops was not impressive to me, all it showed me was that Brawl is way too aggressive with it's damage scaling and not to mention it got twice as worse when momentum cancelling was figured out. Ever since Brawl+ I haven't even looked back and one of the major reason is because when someone gets hit you don't have that sense of mystery whether someone is gonna survive or not. You pretty much know right off the bat when someone is gonna die and I love that. I don't see it as a Melee or N64 trait..I see it as a "smash" trait that should have been in Brawl ever since release.

only specials got damage and knockback staling. the rest was only damage staling.

We just want damage staling.

 

[kupo15]

One of the biggest problems with Brawl was stale moves.

I disagree. Just the fact that it was too strong

The only thing I would support is damage scaling for hits within hitstun, so that utilt combos don't do x+x+x+x rather x+(x-2)+(x-3) or whatever...so on and so forth. You get the idea..but I supposed that would be a hard code to write so forget it..

Actually, the game already does this. The more stale the damage, the less kb you get and less kb means less hitstun. Its already hardcoded in the game

Other than that stale moves is ********. If you're dumb enough to get hit with smash attacks over and over then you just suck..face it. Stop blaming the game, you're a BAD player...sorry but it's true. Not to mention it makes the game sooo much slower and it's a HUGE disadvantage to characters with limited viable KO moves who rely on repeatedly using their best KO move to win. Ness is a great example.

Let's see. What can he kill with?

1.Bat
2.Back air..
3.Headbutt at very high damage...situations rarely arise though

Ummmm that's it... Yup that's IT! Bat is not something you're gonna be landing a lot (and yes I know because I play as Ness sometimes) So I have to depend on bair or gimping with fair. If there were stale moves ...my bairs would barely kill (no pun intended). Upair headbutt is an OK killing move but not something you'll consistently score KO's with so it's more on the situational site and not a mainstay.

Having stale damage only won't be as drastic as you make it out to be.

Stale moves..what a goofy idea .

"I'm stupid and keep getting hit by a move so I want it to be weaker so next time I'm stupid and get hit again it does less damage"

Does seem like a goofy idea but if you think about real fighting, you won't be able to always deal fresh blows because of fatigue. It doesn't necessarily force you to limit moves with stale damage only but its enough to make the game more interesting.

I think it would be an excellent addition.

 

[Deleted member]

the "but in real figthing" argument means nothing,
until you show me how to double jump in real life that is

damage stalling is good though, but kb stalling is just plain bad

 

[JCaesar]

Other than that stale moves is ********. If you're dumb enough to get hit with smash attacks over and over then you just suck..face it. Stop blaming the game, you're a BAD player...sorry but it's true.

Getting hit a lot by Sheik's ftilt, Marth's side-B, MK's tornado, Falco's lasers, or getting grabbed by DDD a lot does not make you a bad player. They are just really good moves. I'm not saying that stale moves is the best solution to spammable moves like this though.

Ness is a great example.

Let's see. What can he kill with?

1.Bat
2.Back air..
3.Headbutt at very high damage...situations rarely arise though

Ummmm that's it... Yup that's IT!

Grab much? Ness really doesn't have it that bad. He also has one of the best spikes in the game that can kill many characters at 0.

 

[kupo15]

the "but in real figthing" argument means nothing,
until you show me how to double jump in real life that is

Yea I know

damage stalling is good though, but kb stalling is just plain bad

Exactly

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

Does seem like a goofy idea but if you think about real fighting...

That's why I play smash bros. It isn't real fighting. I'll never send someone flying into the air and watch them disappear into the sky as a star ko.
Smash bros should never be real fighting. If you want real fighting, play regular brawl and trip.

 

[kupo15]

That's why I play smash bros. It isn't real fighting. I'll never send someone flying into the air and watch them disappear into the sky as a star ko.
Smash bros should never be real fighting. If you want real fighting, play regular brawl and trip.

It was a joke. A stretch to somewhat explain something but mostly a joke. Everyone is uptight, lighten up

 

[GHNeko]

Grrr No U Kupo Smash Bros Is Seriousy Buizness Needz Lez Joke Get Srs Grrrr >:|

 

[kupo15]

Grrr No U Kupo Smash Bros Is Seriousy Buizness Needz Lez Joke Get Srs Grrrr >:|

D:

I'll have to be more careful next time

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

It was a joke. A stretch to somewhat explain something but mostly a joke. Everyone is uptight, lighten up

Does seem like a goofy idea but if you think about real fighting, you won't be able to always deal fresh blows because of fatigue. It doesn't necessarily force you to limit moves with stale damage only but its enough to make the game more interesting.

I think it would be an excellent addition.

Does seem like a goofy idea but if you....It was a joke...I think it would be an excellent addition.

You are the joke my good fellow

 

[kupo15]

whether or not it replicates real fighting, its still a good addition to have stale damage only and not stale kb because stale damage already does both in a small amount. This is also not the only fighting game to have stale moves.

 

[Gameplayer209]

4.0 freezes sometimes, I dunno if you have to keep your GC memory cards out or not. 'Cuz I was fighting Ivysaur alone and I forgot to turn smash balls off so I quit and the Game Froze.

 

[CloneHat]

Why are we even bothering screwing around with stale moves??
This game (Brawl) is already slow enough without them, as Silven pointed out. You want your professional tourney results NADT, now you want a mechanic dedicated to letting noobs stay alive?

 

[kupo15]

Why are we even bothering screwing around with stale moves??
This game (Brawl) is already slow enough without them, as Silven pointed out. You want your professional tourney results NADT, now you want a mechanic dedicated to letting noobs stay alive?

Sounds like someone has had a bad experience with stale moves and has no idea what damage only stale will do. >_<

If anything, it will help to cream the noobs by allowing one to keep the opponent ever so slightly closer to be able to combo a little longer instead of no staling where you can send people out of comboing percent very quickly. That makes the game slow so stale damage will actually speed up the game and make the combo system tighter.

Noobs will suffer from the stale damage code and the better players will be able to use it to their advantage.

 

[CloneHat]

Sounds like someone has had a bad experience with stale moves and has no idea what damage only stale will do. >_<

If anything, it will help to cream the noobs by allowing one to keep the opponent ever so slightly closer to be able to combo a little longer instead of no staling where you can send people out of comboing percent very quickly. That makes the game slow so stale damage will actually speed up the game and make the combo system tighter.

huh?

I like damage only stale. SOMEBODY mentioned KB stale a page or 2 back.

 

[kupo15]

huh?

I like damage only stale. SOMEBODY mentioned KB stale a page or 2 back.

I'm just hoping that we get the damage stale code.

Damage stale is all we need jalued..

Is it possible to look into Normal Brawl's stale move system, and edit it to exclude knockback?

is it possible to add stale damage? like the % of a move decreases but not the knockback?

Skip, that's what we want to do. It should be possible, but, we are not 100% sure.

Stale knockback ruins so many aspects of gameplay, I don't know why we're even considering it.
.

I am also. Stale damage.

We just want damage staling.

You were saying? We are never going to bring back stale kb, only stale damage if we can. I have no idea why we are in this argument.

 

[StarcraftLedZeppelin]

Kupo some one mentioned you have your own personal set of codes similar to the plusery set, can I get those please?

 

[Almas]

Gameplayer - this is a known glitch and is caused by holding a direction just before the victory screen comes up. The resolution should come around soon enough.