The Brawlplusery - Brawl+ Codeset - Updated 3rd April

[kupo15]

Kupo some one mentioned you have your own personal set of codes similar to the plusery set, can I get those please?

Yup. Its similar to the plussery set, just has some tweaks to make the pace of play better imo.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=5940247&postcount=121

 

[Bakithi]

Hey, I just downloaded the newest Gecko OS, and I got the Brawl+ online codeset, and when I booted Gecko OS, it said "too many codes" or "too many lines" or something like that, and I just started the game to see if I could still play Brawl+, and I played a match, and nothing's different from normal Brawl, so I guess the codes aren't working.

Help?

 

[V-K]

Hey, I just downloaded the newest Gecko OS, and I got the Brawl+ online codeset, and when I booted Gecko OS, it said "too many codes" or "too many lines" or something like that, and I just started the game to see if I could still play Brawl+, and I played a match, and nothing's different from normal Brawl, so I guess the codes aren't working.

Help?

You have to use double GCT loader or Screeny loader for so many lines.

 

[Wyvern-x]

Where can I get the double GCT loader V-K?

 

[CloneHat]

Where can I get the double GCT loader V-K?

On the front page of this topic. it's called SD loader.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

oh i forget sarcasm is really hard to implement online. <-- not sarcasm btw. i was only joking kupo

 

[trojanpooh]

I think we need to make it so the IC recovery doesn't work as a tether sometimes. If you are unlucky, you use the recover, the game realizes it can tether, your opponent edgehogs you, and you die because you can't tether. It is better off just working as a traditional recovery.

 

[Bakithi]

Hmm, it seems to be working. Thanks guys, I hope Brawl+'ll be fun and enjoyab--

*plays a match*

WHERE THE HELL HAS THIS GAME BEEN ALL MY LIFE? ITS LIKE BRAWL+SEX=BRAWL+. NO, I DIDN'T JUST MAKE A CORNY JOKE, I'M SERIOUS, THAT'S WHAT ITS LIKE.

Why did I say this game sucked? Whyyyyyy?

 

[FrozenHobo]

I think we need to make it so the IC recovery doesn't work as a tether sometimes. If you are unlucky, you use the recover, the game realizes it can tether, your opponent edgehogs you, and you die because you can't tether. It is better off just working as a traditional recovery.

no.... some people rely on saving nana with that tether. i think giving nana control over the ledge in the event of a tie would be better than taking out a recovery on an already pretty poor character.....

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

samus' super missles promote camping. they need a knockback nerf or a speed nerf or something.

 

[Sukai]

samus' super missles promote camping. they need a knockback nerf or a speed nerf or something.

Well, Samus is a character built to be long/mid range, so, wouldn't it make sense to keep her as is?
Camping doesn't do much in Brawl+ and other characters can do it better. Samus needs no nerf in my opinion.

 

[cAm8ooo]

Well, Samus is a character built to be long/mid range, so, wouldn't it make sense to keep her as is?
Camping doesn't do much in Brawl+ and other characters can do it better. Samus needs no nerf in my opinion.

They dont need a "nerf" from her vbrawl super missiles. They just need to be "buffed" less. They kill too early now in my opinion. The buff needs to be scaled back some.

 

[cobaltblue]

samus' super missles promote camping. they need a knockback nerf or a speed nerf or something.

I have to say, you're doing something wrong if missile spam is killing you.

 

[XSilvenX]

Samus..?. She has won NO Brawl tournaments yet and most likely never will. Nerfing stuff for the hell of nerfing it (once again theory fighter) is so unnecessary. At the moment there is no reason. The buffs she got was heavily needed...now can we wait and see at least if someone wins a tournament with her because of missile spam to see if she was overbuffed?! Nope, let's just deem it's overpowered now and nerf it just incase... Sounds good.

/sarcasm


Kupo - Is it even possible to stale damage but keep the same knockback? Isn't it the more damage = more knockback for Brawl? It seems like staling damage goes hand in hand with staling knockback because they are dependent on one another.

 

[zxeon]

Isn't it the more damage = more knockback for Brawl? It seems like staling damage goes hand in hand with staling knockback because they are dependent on one another.

That is the case Silven.

 

[XSilvenX]

So then how would you separate it so that knockback stays the same and damage goes down..? Is that possible via code? I mean I wouldn't doubt you guys since you guys found out a lot of stuff but just curious here... because if you could do that then that would make sense, as long as knockback isn't effected thus making the game more boring.

 

[zxeon]

I'll refer you to some of my earlier posts

The stale moves system is anti competitive since it rewards players that fall for the same move over and over by having them take less damage. It looks pretty on paper but in practice all it does is make matches longer.

The reason knock back decreases as well with stale move is the fault of the way Brawl calculates knock back.

If you wanted to make a stale moves system that didn't decrease knock back you would have toc change the way the game calculates.

I believe if a move is problematic we should fix that move in specific and not leave it up to "stale moves " to handle it for us.

 

[Eaode]

So the knockback is calculated based on weight, opponent %, and %damage? could you possibly just replace the % damage term of the equation to the base damage, but make the move still damage stale?

Let me elaborate. Let's say you do move A, which does 15 damage and whatever knockback. if you use it multiple times and let's say it has staled to do 10% damage. Instead of calculating knockback with the 10% in mind, could you have the game calculate with 15 instead (and thus get almost the same knockback every time

Spoiler

[almost because it's calculated by opponenets % after the hit so damage stale with always yield an unnoticable KB stale]

), but still have the move do only 10 damage? Is that possible?

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

I have to say, you're doing something wrong if missile spam is killing you.

i never said missile spam was killing me.
it's just ********. even if you were to nerf just the super missiles she'd still be good. i'm not saying that they have to go back to the brawl version but they really dont need to be as strong as they are now is what im saying.

i swear people just keep making false accusations when they want to make themself look good. >_>

 

[cAm8ooo]

The buffs she got was heavily needed...now can we wait and see at least if someone wins a tournament with her because of missile spam to see if she was overbuffed?! Nope, let's just deem it's overpowered now and nerf it just incase... Sounds good.
/sarcasm
.

Umm... people have gotten thier buffs reduced before. Missile spam isnt the problem. The problem is that they buffed her super missiles KB a little too much. Even Cape agrees that it needs to be toned down just a little.

It's not nerfing someone if you give someone somthing really good and then decide it needs to be toned down some. Look at bowser. He doesnt have his thick skin code anymore. OMG, what were we thinkin! We should just wait for tourney results before we nerf him! The fact is we buffed him in other ways and felt he didnt need that buff anymore. Now we have buffed Samus' kills moves but her Super Missiles kill a little too strongly after their buff. So lets just turn it down some. It'll still be better then thier vbrawl self and well still kill good so i dont see what the problem is. We arent NERFING her.

 

[cobaltblue]

i never said missile spam was killing me.
it's just ********. even if you were to nerf just the super missiles she'd still be good. i'm not saying that they have to go back to the brawl version but they really dont need to be as strong as they are now is what im saying.

i swear people just keep making false accusations when they want to make themself look good. >_>

Or you're jumping to conclusions and seeing non existent insults.

My point is any changes to her missiles have to be done with care. I have no idea if you've been paying attention or not to the past few posts or development of B+ but this game has been made very aggressor friendly vs. defender as is. The past few posts alone want to make aggression even more favorable which is quite harmful for a character such as samus who relies on long range manipulation to get her opponent into the correct position for her more powerful melee moves.

I just can't see why a decrease in speed or power would be needed considering she is not particularly fast enough to shoot them point blank and the downtime between shots is plenty of time for action on the long range front. Edge guarding wise they do help to keep a player who is coming back to the stage from a distance but to any size kb would ko anyways. In all honesty I'd sooner put din's fire needing a nerf (not that I'm advocating it here) as it is faster, stronger, can be directed, gets bigger by distance, spammable, and the character in question has the ability to KO earlier from an array of moves should anyone get in her space.

 

[cAm8ooo]

Well lets look at Samus as a character:

In vbrawl Samus was great at pressuring her opponent and using projectiles and zair's to out range her foe. She also lives exceptionally well being a heavy character with a decent recovery. Her main weakness was that she couldnt obtain kills. All her killing options were sub par.

In brawl+ we buffed her pressure game. It went from decent to amazing. We also buffed her weakness giving her better killing options. BUT giving her a non-chargable, long-ranged, spammable move that kills under 100 percent makes Samus' ability to kill one of her best features.

This is NOT what we want to do when buffing or nerfing a character. Character weakness' should not become a strong point of that character but should either become one of two things: either the weakness of the character is still thier worst point but their strengths are capitalized on (ex. Link) OR thier weakness should become a decent attribute of the character but not surpassing or equaling their current strenths (ex. Samus).

This idea that since we buffed something we cant go back and buff it less is ridiculous. Many characters have been changed and many different things have been looked into and altered to best fit that character.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6qzfEnuWDQ

^^ this was originally tested but fount to be too fast and didnt fit the character. Under yah's logic we should have kept this in the game because we have no tourney results. Samus is a great character and her killing options are great but her Super Missiles have been buffed slightly too much for my liking and should be brought down to a more reasonable KB.

 

[leafgreen386]

So the knockback is calculated based on weight, opponent %, and %damage? could you possibly just replace the % damage term of the equation to the base damage, but make the move still damage stale?

Let me elaborate. Let's say you do move A, which does 15 damage and whatever knockback. if you use it multiple times and let's say it has staled to do 10% damage. Instead of calculating knockback with the 10% in mind, could you have the game calculate with 15 instead (and thus get almost the same knockback every time

Spoiler

[almost because it's calculated by opponenets % after the hit so damage stale with always yield an unnoticable KB stale]

), but still have the move do only 10 damage? Is that possible?

You're asking if it's possible for the game to calculate knockback as if you had more damage than you actually do have... using data from a system only used for causing damage, from which it is not only taking data from the last move, but it is taking the damage that the move DID NOT DO rather than the damage the move DID, which really... is just a little bit ridiculous just to get attacks to kill some 5% sooner if you've been spamming them.

Yes, if a move is staled by 5%, then that is the only difference that you will see in kb... the opponent goes the distance that they would go if they were hit by a fresh version of the move and were 5% less when you hit them. The way kb is actually calculated remains the same in a damage staling system. The reason moves do less kb at the same percent but different stales is because when the game calculates the kb... they aren't at the same percent. If you hit a 95% foe with a fresh attack that does 15% and you hit a 100% foe with the same move staled down to 10% on a stale damage only system, they would both do the same kb.

Of course, in brawl, stale moves not only takes away from the damage you deal, but also launch speed (which is what hitstun and knockback are calculated from) by a rather substantial amount. A fully staled move in brawl will be reduced to 46% of its original power, not only in damage, but also in launch speed. Well, not exactly, since stale moves doesn't effect the base launch speed a move has, only the growth.

 

[Blank Mauser]

While we're on the subject of projectiles, I'd like to say again that Ivy's razor leaf needs to be back to its 1.5x speed.

First of all, take a look at the character. Most of her ground attacks are really punishable. Being punished with Ivy is bad, because one good horizontal move is all it takes. Once Ivy is off the edge shes pretty much gone. Her saving grace is her aerials, but most of her good zoning aerials don't set up well into anything. She lacks the momentum to follow-up to them with proper DI. The problem with this is, they're all still very much punishable and most characters that have the momentum to penetrate them setup way better than she does. Something like Falcon's knee is very harsh on Ivy. Not to mention there are other characters who do this whole defensive aerial gig much better and have actual setups with their aerials. Marth, G&W, Kirby and Luigi are all examples of this.

The razor leaf helped her be a great zoner and gave her good (situational) setups, but it wasn't her metagame. Its easily broken. Sex kicks, jabs, reflectors, every character has a move that can help them shrug Razor Leaf off because it just breaks from anything. Its no more spammable then Mario's fireball or Falco's laser. I know in my videos I love to use razor leaf, but I usually play against people who don't really get to play Brawl+. They look at their vBrawl knowledge, and since not many people play Ivysaur they don't know how to handle this projectile when really it can be easily dealt with.

Even though I love Ivy, shes still not that great of a character. Really I think she does best when on the offense. Her range, especially on her grab, helps her keep pressure on when she does land those good setups. This is nerfed with the razor leaf slowdown. Honestly at half the speed boost it seems almost as useless as before. It hasn't setup for anything for me but one or two grabs that I know could have been avoided if the opponent noticed I was going for them. She needs the extra zoning and setup power that razor leaf gave in order to compete with her off-stage disadvantage.

Edit: Ivysaur's razor leaf is also very helpful off-stage. Not just for knocking people off edges, but turning around with it and using her superior Bair to free up the ledge /help her not get edgeguarded.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

yeah you're right. let samus keep her atom bombs.

 

[Magus420]

A fully staled move in brawl will be reduced to 46% of its original power, not only in damage, but also in launch speed. Well, not exactly, since stale moves doesn't effect the base launch speed a move has, only the growth.

3. The Damage Formula

damage = base damage × stale multiplier × charge multiplier × aura multiplier × fatigue multiplier

3.2 Stale Move Multiplier

The formula for the stale move multiplier is

This is explained below, including the definition of s.

In versus mode, for moves affected by stale move decay, this factor is never 1. If a move is not in the stale move queue before being used, the value of this multiplier is exactly 1.05.

In versus mode, for moves affected by stale move decay, a move is placed in the stale move queue after it is used. The stale move queue contains nine entries, and each entry has a numerical weighting as depicted in the following diagram.

The left of the diagram represents the most recent move to be added to the queue, and the far right represents the oldest move to the added to the queue. Then we have

stale multiplier = 1 – s

where s is the sum of the values of the positions in the queue occupied by the move being used. For example, if the move being used occupies the .1 position, the .06 position, and the .03 position, then the stale multiplier is 1 - (0.1 + 0.06 + 0.03) = 0.81.

Since staleness for damage and staleness for knockback growth can't be separated normally I'm guessing it's likely because they both utilize the same value(s) (stale multiplier and its components)? I mentioned this before, but would it be possible to overwrite the calculated 'stale multiplier' with a value of 1 after the 1st frame of hitlag when the damage is calculated and dealt? That way it would do the appropriate stale damage on the 1st frame, and then a stale multiplier of 1 is instead used to modify the growth when the knockback is calculated for the move.

So say a normal attack that does 12% is in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 9th stale slots.

stale multiplier = 1 - (0.10 + 0.09 + 0.08 + 0.02)
stale multiplier = 0.71

The attack would do 8.520 damage to them on the 1st frame of hitlag.

After the damage is done to the player that 0.71 value is then overwritten with 1.00, and when knockback is then calculated afterwards the growth for the knockback of the move goes unaffected by the stale multiplier. If the stale multiplier is recalculated again when it does the knockback, then I guess could you have it write 1.00 until knockback occurs?

Also, if 'stale multiplier' isn't an actual game value and it does the [1 - s] calculation within the formulas themselves I guess you could probably overwrite the slots with 0.00 kind of like how the current no stale moves code works but only apply it at during knockback calculation like this.


Of course, that's assuming it even works that way and something like that would even be possible. Also, I don't know what you could do about throws and attacks with no hitlag.

 

[Thirtyfour]

u cant defend against bowser's side B once your grabbed in 4.1 bea
FIX IT

 

[Thirtyfour]

While we're on the subject of projectiles, I'd like to say again that Ivy's razor leaf needs to be back to its 1.5x speed.

First of all, take a look at the character. Most of her ground attacks are really punishable. Being punished with Ivy is bad, because one good horizontal move is all it takes. Once Ivy is off the edge shes pretty much gone. Her saving grace is her aerials, but most of her good zoning aerials don't set up well into anything. She lacks the momentum to follow-up to them with proper DI. The problem with this is, they're all still very much punishable and most characters that have the momentum to penetrate them setup way better than she does. Something like Falcon's knee is very harsh on Ivy. Not to mention there are other characters who do this whole defensive aerial gig much better and have actual setups with their aerials. Marth, G&W, Kirby and Luigi are all examples of this.

The razor leaf helped her be a great zoner and gave her good (situational) setups, but it wasn't her metagame. Its easily broken. Sex kicks, jabs, reflectors, every character has a move that can help them shrug Razor Leaf off because it just breaks from anything. Its no more spammable then Mario's fireball or Falco's laser. I know in my videos I love to use razor leaf, but I usually play against people who don't really get to play Brawl+. They look at their vBrawl knowledge, and since not many people play Ivysaur they don't know how to handle this projectile when really it can be easily dealt with.

Even though I love Ivy, shes still not that great of a character. Really I think she does best when on the offense. Her range, especially on her grab, helps her keep pressure on when she does land those good setups. This is nerfed with the razor leaf slowdown. Honestly at half the speed boost it seems almost as useless as before. It hasn't setup for anything for me but one or two grabs that I know could have been avoided if the opponent noticed I was going for them. She needs the extra zoning and setup power that razor leaf gave in order to compete with her off-stage disadvantage.

Edit: Ivysaur's razor leaf is also very helpful off-stage. Not just for knocking people off edges, but turning around with it and using her superior Bair to free up the ledge /help her not get edgeguarded.

Dont forget that SOME PEOPLE USE ALL THREE POKEMON

You cant have a everything you want in a character that can change to another at anytime.

Just presss down B

 

[IC3R]

Dont forget that SOME PEOPLE USE ALL THREE POKEMON

You cant have a everything you want in a character that can change to another at anytime.

Just presss down B

Offstage? Have fun with that ~

 

[Blank Mauser]

Dont forget that SOME PEOPLE USE ALL THREE POKEMON

You cant have a everything you want in a character that can change to another at anytime.

Just presss down B

I only like Ivy. =(

Why not just forget about Zelda? Her best move is Down-B.

 

[Thirtyfour]

I only like Ivy. =(

Why not just forget about Zelda? Her best move is Down-B.

Noone gives a **** about which of the three pokemon you favor. All Three are tourney viable.
If your a high %, use his throws (which i already know you can set up) and press down B.
Ivy isnt meant to be Falco.
He already has range for good spacing his ridiculous uair and up B buffs were uncalled for in the first place.
Its already been said, someone on the development team mains Ivy go talk to him, I'm sure he'll buff what ever he doesnt need.
Ivy is unbalanced. He's more powerful than Charizard at the moment.
With all the ludicrous decisions already made on buffs and nerfs. I'm sure instead of Ivy getting a simple fix, Charizard will instead get a buff.

Falcon needs a nerf his knee hitbox is still too **** big and the knockback is juuuust a bit too much.

I dont use Zelda's down B when i play you lol

 

[cobaltblue]

Well lets look at Samus as a character:

In vbrawl Samus was great at pressuring her opponent and using projectiles and zair's to out range her foe. She also lives exceptionally well being a heavy character with a decent recovery. Her main weakness was that she couldnt obtain kills. All her killing options were sub par.

In brawl+ we buffed her pressure game. It went from decent to amazing. We also buffed her weakness giving her better killing options. BUT giving her a non-chargable, long-ranged, spammable move that kills under 100 percent makes Samus' ability to kill one of her best features.

This is NOT what we want to do when buffing or nerfing a character. Character weakness' should not become a strong point of that character but should either become one of two things: either the weakness of the character is still thier worst point but their strengths are capitalized on (ex. Link) OR thier weakness should become a decent attribute of the character but not surpassing or equaling their current strenths (ex. Samus).

This idea that since we buffed something we cant go back and buff it less is ridiculous. Many characters have been changed and many different things have been looked into and altered to best fit that character.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6qzfEnuWDQ

^^ this was originally tested but fount to be too fast and didnt fit the character. Under yah's logic we should have kept this in the game because we have no tourney results. Samus is a great character and her killing options are great but her Super Missiles have been buffed slightly too much for my liking and should be brought down to a more reasonable KB.

I don't see where you are getting the "we can't undo buffs once done" thing from. I simply do not want to see them go the way getting hit at 100% from mid level of FD does not even knock you off of it. If consistant good samus players are showing that low percentile kills by the move are occurring often then by all means nerf the kb.

And on weakness you seem to be forgetting that she is also incredibly floaty which allows for easy combos and has a very crappy roll for when someone does get in her face. These two things really work against her in B+ as the game is aggressor friendly and being argued to be even more so everyday.

 

[Blank Mauser]

Noone gives a **** about which of the three pokemon you favor. All Three are tourney viable.
If your a high %, use his throws (which i already know you can set up) and press down B.
Ivy isnt meant to be Falco.
He already has range for good spacing his ridiculous uair and up B buffs were uncalled for in the first place.
Its already been said, someone on the development team mains Ivy go talk to him, I'm sure he'll buff what ever he doesnt need.
Ivy is unbalanced. He's more powerful than Charizard at the moment.
With all the ludicrous decisions already made on buffs and nerfs. I'm sure instead of Ivy getting a simple fix, Charizard will instead get a buff.

Falcon needs a nerf his knee hitbox is still too **** big and the knockback is juuuust a bit too much.

I dont use Zelda's down B when i play you lol

Uhh nothing was done to Uair or Up-B. There was just global lag reduction and Ivy got more of it because 50% wasn't enough to make much a difference.

By unbalanced do you mean with the other pokemon? Because hes nothing like Charizard nor Squirtle. There will be reasons to play all three individually, and we're being given the option to do that so I don't see the big deal of making them all good.

I think the mindset here is to buff characters to higher play by letting them capitalize MORE on their good options. Buffing something even though its already decent isn't a bad thing, especially when better characters do it much easier. Razor leaf isn't meant to make Ivysaur Falco, its just meant to give him a good projectile.

Ivysaur isn't even overpowered, I'm sorry that I'm so bad I make him look really easy to use.

 

[cAm8ooo]

I don't see where you are getting the "we can't undo buffs once done" thing from. I simply do not want to see them go the way getting hit at 100% from mid level of FD does not even knock you off of it. If consistant good samus players are showing that low percentile kills by the move are occurring often then by all means nerf the kb.

And on weakness you seem to be forgetting that she is also incredibly floaty which allows for easy combos and has a very crappy roll for when someone does get in her face. These two things really work against her in B+ as the game is aggressor friendly and being argued to be even more so everyday.

That was the argument i was getting when i suggested buffing her missiles less then they are now. People wanted to see tourney results before we toned it down.

Also you must be playin a completely different game then me OR your confusing my argument for homing missiles (which are perfectly fine). Samus' Super Missiles kill Mario at 128%, 90% on the edge. Mixed with the fact that their long range means that Samus is gonna be firing them at people tryin to recover which brings the killing percentage even lower to like the 80 range.

I believe they were buffed a tad too much. I'm not saying to change them by a lot but 90% is a tad bit too good for a spammable, fast projectile.

edit: hmm, i reread your post and see now that u dont want to see the Super Missiles with that low of KB at 100. I thought you were saying it was already like that. But yes, i agree. I dont want THAT drastic of a change. Right now the KBG is set at 85 from the vbrawl set of 65. I think a 75-80% kbg would be about the right area.

 

[Some_Kind_of_JokÈ?]

i think its funny... in B+ there are WAY more combos thatin vB but theres one combo that acutally cant be done in B+ but can be done in vB.

and yes its a real combo


Warios Dair > Dair > Clap

the gravity makes it so you cant DJ after the SH Dair, thus making this combo impossible...

 

[GHNeko]

i think its funny... in B+ there are WAY more combos thatin vB but theres one combo that acutally cant be done in B+ but can be done in vB.

and yes its a real combo

lolwut

10lolwuts

 

[XSilvenX]

Cam - You make some good arguments. I must say there were a lot of essay posts on this particular page and I had to skim through a lot of the text but I took in the gist of it. I guess when it really comes down to it though I don't really care about Samus' missiles but umm I like the idea of fixing an individual move rather than trying to adjust the universal system to make up for the move's brokenness. It makes more sense because that way you're not punishing everyone else.

Anyway 4.1 Issues...SO FAR

-Wario's Bite does absolutely nothing..Ninjalink said it worked in his version but it has no hitbox at all in my version. Very strange...he gave me a copy of his version too so it can't be different codes..

-Shield stun is ridiculous. Lucas can literally LOCK someone in their shield with nair spam and break their shield(NL did it yesterday and said the opponent couldn't move). Shadowlink suggested that the amount of shieldstun be relative to the amount of knockback or damage on the move if possible. If not that, then maybe allow rolling during shieldstun so that Lucas can't lock people in their shields..

 

[CloneHat]

Wario bite works fine for me!

Why don't we make shieldstun like Melee's, because there it worked fine.

 

[XSilvenX]

It could be a specific character type of thing...

CloneHat try biting Ike and see what happens because I played a Wario the other day at a smashfest and he missed his first Bite and said "WTF?!?!" and then I was like..whoa that was weird it should have got me so we agreed to stop fighting and he literally stood there and held his mouth open and I walked straight into him and we started laughing because it did NOTHING.

 

[kupo15]

So then how would you separate it so that knockback stays the same and damage goes down..? Is that possible via code? I mean I wouldn't doubt you guys since you guys found out a lot of stuff but just curious here... because if you could do that then that would make sense, as long as knockback isn't effected thus making the game more boring.

Actually, that isn't the point. The way brawl does stales moves is like this:

Stale damage
Stale kb

Stale damage does the following:
Stale damage
Stale kb

So as you can see, with brawl's default staling system, you get this:

Stale damage
Stale kb
Stale kb

A double dose of Stale kb which is why it sucks so bad. We want to remove the stale kb for the stand alone "stale kb" but keep the stale kb that makes up the stale damage part. Having this won't be nearly as powerful as brawl's current stale system so stale kb in the stale damage forumla won't be noticeable, but will be a fresh relief and add mix ups to the game. Subtle ones that will improve the game, not drastic ones that will hurt it