The Best Players.

[Divinokage]

didnt your falcon do better against shiz than your ganon???

Ya but I think I've finally unlocked the Falco matchup. =P Now I gotta work on peach.

 

[Mizar]

That the legend Mizar.. hes best in holland.
And i might do a smashfest like next week.. maybe u can see how it is for a bit.

Now you jus bein craaaaazy. I could be top10 if I didn't had to play vs cpu all the time

 

[hungrybox]

How did HBox get so good at this game? Does anybody know that? I heard he was a King fanboy then he comes out of nowhere and wins pound 3. God that was terrible, sitting in that stupid basement. Now all M2k has to do is not get hit by any of jigg's grabs cause there all really good.

(Also) That was disrespectful, hbox. To mango to you to me. That was disrespectful.

I watch too many videos

I see what you did THURRR

 

[Hack]

say whatt??

Jiggs is the same in PAL as in NTSC, while Fox, Falco, Marth and Sheik are nerfed. That's what I'd call a downhill battle.
And you can't put PP/M2K/KirbyKaze/Jman over Hbox based off ONE tourney. Mango has been doing "bad" several tournaments in a row, which is why I put Hbox over him.

So: what part of my statement was outrageous to you?

 

[L__]

Even though M2K's largely considered the best overall, I disagree. His mastery of the majority of the high tiers is respectable, but that's about it. Anyway, here's my take on a top ten;

1. Mango
2. Hungrybox
3. HugS
4. Darkrain
5. Colbol
6. SilentSpectre
7. DaShizWiz
8. Calle W
9. Tang
10. Forward

I mostly base this on their overall performances in tourneys and their playing style, and as you can see, I'm not a Puff hater. Mindgames also play a role, and that's pretty much why I placed HugS as high as the third place. He's by no means a bad player, but his Samus mostly relies on the genius that his mindgames are, and not his work ethic. Phanna's is far superior, unlike his mindgames, which aren't that much. Consider this for the others, too. HugS and Phanna are merely examples.

hahahhahahhhhahahhhhahhahaahhahahh

 

[Bl@ckChris]

the fact that your bad is in quotation marks is why mango is still above hbox.

 

[Hack]

the fact that your bad is in quotation marks is why mango is still above hbox.

So just how many tournaments should you allow him to screw brackets over before you start realizing he doesn't try in singles anymore (as of now)?

Seriously, if the argument "he's the best, he's just not trying" remains valid after an endless amount of tourneys, one could just state that M2K hasn't been trying since before Pound 3 and start ranking him as # 1 again. Get my point?

 

[-ACE-]

Yeah but M2K isn't ****** everyone in the entire world in friendlies and MM's immediately after losing in tourney with his 6th and 7th best characters.

We also don't have a hundred top players saying that M2K is sandbagging and that he is clearly the best. lol

 

[leffen]

^Exactly.

THE ONLY ONES QUESTIONING MANGO'S SUPERIORITY ARE PEOPLE OF NONE/LITTLE IMPORTANCE. ;D
If every damn top player thinks he is better, then he is the best. Maybe he shouldn't have #1 seed, but its pretty clear that he is, by all top players definition, the best player at this moment.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

yeah. check out the rom3 video threads latter pages for really good argumentation of this.

those posts by derkis really should be moved here.

 

[hungrybox]

I'll go to Europe eventually and end this entire NTSC/PAL debate.

 

[t3h Icy]

I just noticed:

Hax at Pound 3:
Lost to M2K
Defeated LOZR
Defeated Silent Wolf
Defeated Colbol
Lost to Azen

Placed 9th.

Hax at ROM2:
Defeated Big D
Lost to Eggm
Defeated Thumbswayup
Defeated HBK
Defeated Raynex
Lost to Jman

Placed 9th.

Will Hax ever beat a second person in Winners' Bracket?

 

[Pogogo]

Srsly HBox what did you do? You've gotten so much better since genesis.

All that's left is for you to take up other chars, drink and perform poorly at national tournaments.

 

[-ACE-]

Hax is the loser's bracket assassin.

 

[Rubyiris]

I am the best player.

MY **** IS ****ING GIGANTIC.

 

[Rubyiris]

I just noticed:

Hax at Pound 3:
Lost to M2K
Defeated LOZR
Defeated Silent Wolf
Defeated Colbol
Lost to Azen

Placed 9th.

Hax at ROM2:
Defeated Big D
Lost to Eggm
Defeated Thumbswayup
Defeated HBK
Defeated Raynex
Lost to Jman

Placed 9th.

Will Hax ever beat a second person in Winners' Bracket?

Lol. @ P3 he lost to two marths. @ Rom2 he lost to two foxes.

 

[Merkuri]

^Exactly.

THE ONLY ONES QUESTIONING MANGO'S SUPERIORITY ARE PEOPLE OF NONE/LITTLE IMPORTANCE. ;D
If every damn top player thinks he is better, then he is the best. Maybe he shouldn't have #1 seed, but its pretty clear that he is, by all top players definition, the best player at this moment.

I'm really not trying to start another argument here I just want to point out that you're being stupid. Everyone saying Mango is the best doesn't make him the best. A few centuries ago scientists all thought the world was flat, lol.

@Teh Icy: At rom3 he only defeated one person in winners bracket again XD

 

[arcane9211]

I'm really not trying to start another argument here I just want to point out that you're being stupid. Everyone saying Mango is the best doesn't make him the best. A few centuries ago scientists all thought the world was flat, lol.

God, that was a terrible analogy.

No offense.

 

[CloneHat]

Mango will be considered the best until he is seen from outer space and shown not to be.

 

[Merkuri]

God, that was a terrible analogy.

No offense.

How so? I could have used another analogy that one was just the most blatant. But again please explain why the analogy is so bad.

Also it being analogous wasn't the point. The point is that experts in any given field can't decide what's wrong and what's right.

 

[arcane9211]

How so? I could have used another analogy that one was just the most blatant. But again please explain why the analogy is so bad.

Read this: http://www.logicalfallacies.info/relevance/weak-analogy/

Just because a large group of people without acccess to modern technology or education agreed on something later proven to be incorrect does not imply that a multi-national tournament winning melee player whose closest competitors concede inferiority is not the best player.

Basically, we all know he's the best when he gives a ****, but we shouldn't necessarily rank/seed him as so unless he starts winning nationals again.

Edit: If you want to base rankings off of data, tournament results are the only place to look and Mango has probably the highest winning percentage in tournament ever when looking at 2008-2010. He may not care now and as such no longer wins, but the people who are winning still lose to him in mm's/seriouslies/whatever.

 

[Merkuri]

Read this: http://www.logicalfallacies.info/relevance/weak-analogy/

Just because a large group of people without acccess to modern technology or education agreed on something later proven to be incorrect does not imply that a multi-national tournament winning melee player whose closest competitors concede inferiority is not the best player.

Basically, we all know he's the best when he gives a ****, but we shouldn't necessarily rank/seed him as so unless he starts winning nationals again.

Edit: If you want to base rankings off of data, tournament results are the only place to look and Mango has probably the highest winning percentage in tournament ever when looking at 2008-2010. He may not care now and as such no longer wins, but the people who are winning still lose to him in mm's/seriouslies/whatever.

Like I said the analogy didn't matter the fact is that expert in a given field don't decide what is true and what is false. Take for example for the pass 87 years it has been fact that there 30 orders of insects, well it turns out that their are 31 orders of insects, http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/03/0328_0328_TVstickinsect.htmlall of the experts were wrong.

Similarly(I'm a science major) there the first mammals were thought to have evolved 155 years ago but it turns out that a group of shrew like mammals discovered lived about 195 million years ago http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/1349763.stm, again the experts were all wrong.

it's common knowledge in any recognize discipline that consensus among experts doesn't constitute fact. You are idiot for thinking otherwise. On a side note Mango played Hbox at the end of Apex after Apex won the tournament and was exhausted and if I'm not mistaken he did the same thing with PP, the little ****er needs to play them while they are fresh lol.

 

[arcane9211]

Like I said the analogy didn't matter the fact is that expert in a given field don't decide what is true and what is false. Take for example for the pass 87 years it has been fact that there 30 orders of insects, well it turns out that their are 31 orders of insects, http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/03/0328_0328_TVstickinsect.htmlall of the experts were wrong.

Similarly(I'm a science major) there the first mammals were thought to have evolved 155 years ago but it turns out that a group of shrew like mammals discovered lived about 195 million years ago http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/1349763.stm, again the experts were all wrong.

it's common knowledge in any recognize discipline that consensus among experts doesn't constitute fact. You are idiot for thinking otherwise. On a side note Mango played Hbox at the end of Apex after Apex won the tournament and was exhausted and if I'm not mistaken he did the same thing with PP, the little ****er needs to play them while they are fresh lol.

I think you're missing my point about your previous analogy. None of what you just said provides evidence for Mango not being the best player. Those examples do not apply whatsoever because science was able to show later on that previous information was not accurate.

Are we ever going to one day find out that Mango didn't win pound 3/ROM/genesis/pound 4 etc.? No. Will science be able to some day change the results of the matches from when Mango has played armada/pp/jman/m2k/hbox/whoever? No.

You follow that up with the nerve to imply things I have never said and as a result call me an idiot. Science determines things through currently available evidence, and all evidence suggests that Mango has been the best melee player for at least pound 3 - pound 4 and debatably until today. He still wins teams and he still beats all the top people outside of tourney (without any of them even claiming to be better).

And it doesn't matter if they were fresh are not; thus far I have not heard a single complaint/statement from hbox or pp and their level of fatigue being the cause of them losing.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Mango just whupped me at Apex. I don't recall feeling overly tired at all, especially in those friendlies we played that were recorded day 1.

He whupped me at Rom3 when we were both fresh.

 

[Druggedfox]

Mango just whupped me at Apex. I don't recall feeling overly tired at all, especially in those friendlies we played that were recorded day 1.

He whupped me at Rom3 when we were both fresh.

Except for them marth dittos

 

[-ACE-]

PP's marth is so beast...

 

[Bl@ckChris]

i think i've done better vs pp's falco than his marth.

ugg.

his marth.

 

[strawhats]

i think we need to gather m2k, hbox, pp, armada and have them all directly quote this merkuri fellow and straight up tell him "you're wrong".

let's see if he'll still have the will power to continue such a futile argument.

 

[DAS]

If some no name person wins pound 5 how would he or she be ranked then? Its very unlikely, but I know it will cause a lot of confusion

 

[strawhats]

Lol. @ P3 he lost to two marths. @ Rom2 he lost to two foxes.

did m2k really use marth against hax back at Pound 3?

if so...those were good times.

lol...if hax was as good in winners' bracket as he is in losers' he'd be even more of a beast than he already is.

 

[t3h Icy]

Hax is really good against Sheiks; he beat Tope at Genesis and has beaten M2K in a ton of friendlies.

But he does seem to have a Marth problem and most recently, IB beat him in Round 1 at Apex.

 

[Dark Hart]

people don't know about PP's Marth...

it's soooooooo good

 

[strawhats]

he beat Amsah too if im not mistaken.

also pp vs. m2k marth dittos (someone make it happen)

 

[tarheeljks]

Like I said the analogy didn't matter the fact is that expert in a given field don't decide what is true and what is false. Take for example for the pass 87 years it has been fact that there 30 orders of insects, well it turns out that their are 31 orders of insects, http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/03/0328_0328_TVstickinsect.htmlall of the experts were wrong.

Similarly(I'm a science major) there the first mammals were thought to have evolved 155 years ago but it turns out that a group of shrew like mammals discovered lived about 195 million years ago http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/1349763.stm, again the experts were all wrong.

it's common knowledge in any recognize discipline that consensus among experts doesn't constitute fact. You are idiot for thinking otherwise. On a side note Mango played Hbox at the end of Apex after Apex won the tournament and was exhausted and if I'm not mistaken he did the same thing with PP, the little ****er needs to play them while they are fresh lol.

the difference b/t your analogy and these circumstances-- the amount of evidence to the contrary


edit: i guess i should say the degree/significance in addition to the amount. so essentially, while your point about appeals to authority is obviously correct, it's kind of irrelevant

 

[Druggedfox]

also pp vs. m2k marth dittos (someone make it happen)

I wouldn't watch, it'd be devestating (sorry PP).

I'm pretty sure m2k 4 stocks mango's marth >_>

 

[Rubyiris]

m2k and taj are so ****ing good at marth dittos.

 

[Armada]

-ACE-: My score (firendlis) against Mango at Apex was 10-3 but i guess that was ****

I´m not trying to say i´m better than Mango i´m only trying to prove friendlis and MMs is not that important.

I can´t believe how people still thinks friendlis count´s that much.

Right now i put Mango 1st but if he dosen´t win Pound5/Genesis 2 (or something big between this) i will not put him first anymore.

If he don´t win Pound5/Genesis 2 Hbox/Me/Amsah/PP/ or m2k will probally have the first spot in my eyes.

Me against Mango at Genesis2 would be so epic.
Mango come back and we can play finals at Genesis =).

Hbox: How can you possible end that debate?
Puff is one of the chars how is getting better in Pal.

I think many players mean chars how change in a bad way.

So it dosen´t matter how high you place
Will you be in Europe the whole summer? (and still attend Genesis2?)

 

[ChivalRuse]

Armada's posts are so amazing.

 

[-ACE-]

Unless he played differently on ones that weren't recorded, you must be talking about the friendlies where mango constantly approached you like a madman hardly shooting any lasers, while you kept your space and rarely approached at all. You're right, SOME friendlies don't mean a thing! I'm sure if mango actually cared about his win/loss record in friendlies (which I'm surprised you thought of, or even remembered, since they don't mean anything...) he would have stepped up his defense, and definitely played more fox/puff and less falco and mario lol.

Mango is at a level that no one as EVER reached. Armada, it would be great if you, or PP, or Amsah, or whoever could surpass him one day. I'd love to witness that type of skill... but until then, no matter how we "rank" mango, he's still the best player in the world. And as long as there are like 90% of america's top players saying that he is clearly the most talented player, that will remain his title. Not everyone is that biased.

 

[Luma]

he would be the best if he wins tournaments, if he thinks he doenst have to try or whatever (i really dont get that kid) he should not be first on anyones list (aslong its not biased ofc)

tournament performance > "skill"