The Best Players.....again

[Druggedfox]

Apex was august 8-11 and pound V was february 19-21 I'm pretty sure.

That said, it would be more definitive of being the best had he never lost rather than makin two comebacks

Also, in terms of who is better... I say watch at genesis 2; by then PP will clearly surpass mango, and that will be the end of it. PP wants it, and he usually gets what hes after =P

 

[rhan]

I'm just a firm believer where hard work pays off. Meh.

I just see it as he had such a hard fight through both tourneys when he was sent into loser's. Plus when one is knocked into loser's there isn't anything to fall back on. Just you and the determination to surpass everyone else.

 

[KILLA.FOR.CASH.]

That said, it would be more definitive of being the best had he never lost rather than makin two comebacks

that kinda depends though on how you view what makes the "best" player

people say that muhammad ali was the greatest boxer of all time because he had worthy opponents to test his skill against, and even though he lost, he came back from those losses and made amazing comebacks, or beat them the second time around

people don't call floyd mayweather the best, even though he is obviously extremely skilled, and his professional record in boxing is 41-0. he hasn't lost once!

a great champion always needs to be tested, and lose a few times and then have the ability to come back and win, imo

 

[strawhats]

If mango is still the best player by Genesis 2, then he's just too ****ing good. (as in beats PP with either falco/puff box tag on)

With that in mind I feel that PP has improved so mch in the last 5 to 6 months, that his prime has yet to take flight, and he's just reaching the beginning of his Apex in skill. He's continuing to get better and better, and have no reason to believe that he won't be better than mango by Genesis 2.

 

[SonuvaBeach]

Rofl don't be ridiculous, using a character that enabled him to beat one of the best players in the world is called strategy and thus forcing the opponent to adapt to that in the future. All I see right now is a constant spiral of improvement, no one is falling behind. Some people has to use certain characters to unlock their greatest potential, hence why I have to use Ganon to perform very well in tournaments... if I would use anyone else then I would fall behind for sure.

You didn't really disagree with my post. Falco vs Peach is hardly unwinnable, so I don't foresee Armada learning another character to win it. I do see PP only furthering his knowledge and skill in the peach matchup and although Armada will as well, it would be wrong to say he has AS many things to improve upon. Peach is more limited than falco, with less options, simple as that.

I am by no means saying that tier gaps can't be overcome. Axe and Hax just proved that. I do think it is much harder for them to do so though. PP's style of play of looking near perfection when he is playing falco is something we have not seen before.

@Tr3mor you probably can't relate to a similar situation, which is why you don't understand. Its not that your vision is wrong, experience is just a way that will almost certainly change that perspective.

No, I can see where he is coming from. And this almost certainly is not the time to criticize him for it, when he just got screwed out of a ton of money, again. But, if you believe people are bad you are going to see bad people. It is a self fulfilling prophecy. I see people do amazing things for others just as often as the other way around and many of them do not do it so they don't get into some afterworld. At the end of the day the only person that knows if your good or not is yourself.

Mango is still #1 in my opinion.

This means more right now IMO than what any of us feel about it. PP played many friendlies with him at P5 and the fact he still feels this way carries a lot of weight.

If mango is still the best player by Genesis 2, then he's just too ****ing good. (as in beats PP with either falco/puff box tag on)

With that in mind I feel that PP has improved so mch in the last 5 to 6 months, that his prime has yet to take flight, and he's just reaching the beginning of his Apex in skill. He's continuing to get better and better, and have no reason to believe that he won't be better than mango by Genesis 2.

I agree, I don't see why PP would not continue to improve. He is definitely the only other person besides mango handle m2k as if he was some random, as well as to all the other top players bar Hbox and Armada.

 

[Vegard]

PP, can you give us your definition of #1?

why are you making it so complicated? he still thinks mango's the best lol

 

[tarheeljks]

that kinda depends though on how you view what makes the "best" player

people say that muhammad ali was the greatest boxer of all time because he had worthy opponents to test his skill against, and even though he lost, he came back from those losses and made amazing comebacks, or beat them the second time around

people don't call floyd mayweather the best, even though he is obviously extremely skilled, and his professional record in boxing is 41-0. he hasn't lost once!

a great champion always needs to be tested, and lose a few times and then have the ability to come back and win, imo

well (some) people don't call mayweather the best b/c they feel he has ducked pacquiao and they don't want to call him the best w/o beating the best. ali was able to cement his status as the goat by eventually beating guys he lost to, but losing to them in the first place made his status more tenuous. i get what you're driving at, but it's weird to argue that losing makes your edge more definitive as long as you end up winning again. it's more impressive to go 3-0 against someone than it is to go 3-1, but beat them in a clinching game, though the appeal of the latter is clear-- it is more exciting and we typically appreciate winners more if they struggle some. trials are the stuff of legends and are a component of what makes sport and competition interesting, but overcoming them is a proxy for being good. if player a loses to player b twice but beats him the next six times, is he really a greater champion than if he had beaten him all eight times?

 

[Druggedfox]

^ what he said. Hbox 5-0ing armada proved his skill over armada at apex far more than mango did at genesis. Mangos was more hype, sure, but he allowed the possibility of losing and was one hit away from losing it all.

 

[Armada]

I agree with PP.

I played against Mango at Pound V and I also have to say he´s still the best player atm.
Ofc he haven´t played serious in tournaments for a long time but he still have incredible skills.

But yeah I know me and PP (maybe some more but they have probably it harder beacuase of matchups) can beat a serious Mango today and have a better chance at Genesis.

Tr3MoR: Handle people like they are randoms is not a prove to be better.
I know people how cleary is not on my level but still beat people way easier than I does.

Matchups is important but your chars is also important.
I beat 95% of the community easier with my secondaries than with Peach (just saying).

Im so hyped for Genesis =).

 

[Mew2King]

that's cuz you use peach. Depends the character you use Peach is hard to **** anyone with. I can jv 5 people with marth a lot, because that is the nature of marth. **** or get *****, each stock. Peach's style is more heavily onto trading hits, so you don't **** people but you consistently beat them.

 

[ILM]

I would very much wish for a Marth to be number one again, so M2K best step it up. Until then, I'd have to say something like:
1. Dr. PeePee/Mango
3. Armada/Hbox
5. M2K
6. Jman/Amsah/?

I really have no idea who gets sixth, but I think the top five are all pretty well entrenched. I'm predicting a pretty solid preformance from Mango during Genesis, of course, so anything short of a Grand Finals with him in it would sway my opinion. As far as PeePee, Armada, and Hbox, they're all very well placing, so that's self explanitory.

As for M2K? I would bump him up into a three way tie for third, but recently he's been in a bit of a slump. This isn't helped by the fact that he's been in a bit of a bad mindset judging by his recent posts. Still, I have a lot of hope for a fellow NJ Marth. (When he isn't being gay and playing Sheik)

 

[Dr Peepee]

PP, can you give us your definition of #1?

His style is more developed and his abilities of adaptation/reading are beyond anyone else's at this point.

You could also call it "most skilled" I suppose.

 

[Lukahn]

(When he isn't being gay and playing Sheik)

At least I like his sheik. (his marth too lol).

@PP, Armada, M2K
I have a serious question that I've discussed with friends and we still have a different opininon.

How can you still consider Mango as the best? He isn't even serious, and he don't won anything. I understand Mango ***** and has skill (and he really does). But I think Mango must be consider as the best cause he isn't acting like the best.

I don't know how to put it in the end. I feel like if mango really wanted to be the best, he would be, but in the state of mind he is actually, I have the feeling that you'll beat him. Therefore, you are better than him.

That's weird I know, but it's really the way I feel. But I'm still a Total noob, so I would like to hear what you say about this.

 

[strawhats]

His style is more developed and his abilities of adaptation/reading are beyond anyone else's at this point.

You could also call it "most skilled" I suppose.

believe in yourself and you will the best in the next 6/7 months. Gotta force the puff out and then **** it.

In other news @ILM I so wish m2k was still the best going all marth...lack of practice/motivation and an evolving metagame have left marth a bit crippled. I believe someone, if not m2k, will rise up again and **** with marth. Even though, I think pp is like a newer version of m2k (same with Armada)

 

[ILM]

At least I like his sheik. (his marth too lol).

I was being facetious in reference to his Sheik, I am an M2K fan in general. I'd just like him to practice up to form again, it's always nice when the home team wins.

@strawhats Yes, I would very much like another big contender who plays Marth, it'd be nice.

 

[Mew2King]

I played mango in friendlies for many hours before

I know his skill level

he's the best overall player i think drpp is right after then armada then hbox then me. I'm highly considering not entering melee singles though because it depresses me a lot because I have a bad mentality now and no drive like before. I think I used to be a lot better last year

u can think what u want i rly don't care, i just think he has the most skill overall at the game. drpp may or may not have mastered falco more at this point, it is hard to say

 

[Nicknyte]

I feel ya M2K, you should always play friendlies though. If Melee makes your feel bad, then don't play it. Simply put.

 

[Cactuar]

Mango sucks. Y'all just let him in your head and then he reads your **** forever.

(<3 Mango)

 

[ILM]

@m2k Honestly, I'd pay your singles entrance fee if that would persuade you. mentally you might not be where you'd like to, but I still think you have the potential to do incredibly well in singles. Hell, you play Marth, a few gimps and you can get the win in. I'm sure anyone who has seen you vs. Shiz at ROM can attest to that.

 

[Nicknyte]

I don't think that's the issue here. I think M2K is saying that melee overall isn't enjoyable, in singles tournament. I feel Melee to be more high stress than Brawl IMO. Could be a contributing factor, combined with not being paid at tournaments where he is entered in for singles. (OMG PLEASE DON'T START A p5 flame war, this is regarding other tournaments like winterfest, not P5)

 

[ILM]

I'm pretty sure P5 has been discussed enough elsewhere and need not be brought here.

As far as Melee being high-stress, it's only as stressful as you make it. If you can just relax and take it for what it is, a game, it really stops being a source of frustration.

 

[Mew2King]

Interesting story my set with Shiz at fast1.... back then I didn't care about money and that mindset caught up with me

Cort beat shiz 2-0.

I had to fight cort, i could have just ***** him but i let him go on in the set so that I could fight Shiz, then we did a 3 way split

I only did this for the community, so the crowd could see it. me vs dashizwiz first time around

ended up costing me 400 dollars in the 3 way split when i could have just ***** cort and him maybe beat or lose to shiz then beat the winner of that

but back then I did this ALL The time. it really caught up w/ me tho

and yeah honestly my passion for melee is gone

but I still know a lot about it

and I am willing to train people if they can donate money to me. Kind of like a charity thing since I need help and I can return the favor with knowledge. Because honestly I really need money right now because I have to pay everything I do I cannot get any parents help because mom is too poor sadly to say :/. That is the best idea I can come up with, since I know no one likes me enough to just want to donate without getting anything in return. *shrug*

 

[Nicknyte]

I'm willing to help you out just outta kindness. I doubt I could change my gimmicky ways. Haha. If it helps you and your mom out, Im cool with it. Cant do it till Friday tho.

 

[JPOBS]

Can we just say:

Mango is the most skilled player.

PP is the best player.

People confuse "best" and "skilled" WAY too much. Its quite possible to be the best at something without being the most skilled. Likewise, its possible to be the most skilled and not win. Its also possible to be the best and most skilled, and this tends to be the case but not always.

 

[ILM]

@m2k As someone who basically started playing Melee because of your videos, I'll be sad to no longer see you tearing through brackets at nationals. But, if it makes you happier, I guess I'm not really justified in arguing.

Also, as a fan, I'm sure there are plenty of others like myself who would help donate to you. Some of us, however, are just as poor and can't afford to.

 

[strawhats]

Can we just say:

Mango is the most skilled player.

PP is the best player.

People confuse "best" and "skilled" WAY too much. Its quite possible to be the best at something without being the most skilled. Likewise, its possible to be the most skilled and not win. Its also possible to be the best and most skilled, and this tends to be the case but not always.

I feel that in terms of skill at his best with passion rekindled m2k is the 2nd best player in this game maybe the best if he didn't have mango in his head. Basically Mango/M2k on top of the world. PP and Armada are also right there skill wise.

If we're talking about overall skill and game knowledge it's
Mango
M2K (in his prime)
PP/Armada
Amsah/Hbox (I don't know why I just feel amsah is a more skilled player than hbox...but that doesn't mean much when we say who is the better player. Which is at this point until proven otherwise hbox.)

 

[KGAirlines]

Can we just say:

Mango is the most skilled player.

PP is the best player.

People confuse "best" and "skilled" WAY too much. Its quite possible to be the best at something without being the most skilled. Likewise, its possible to be the most skilled and not win. Its also possible to be the best and most skilled, and this tends to be the case but not always.

it also depends on your definition of skilled

so your post is useless and stupid

 

[-ACE-]

I had to fight cort, i could have just ***** him

This is sooo true but I still LOL'd at this.

 

[JPOBS]

it also depends on your definition of skilled

so your post is useless and stupid

you're useless and stupid

 

[Stevo]

it also depends on your definition of skilled

so your post is useless and stupid

your post was actually much more useless

 

[-ACE-]

I would think that a player that could play every single character in the game at the same level of armada's peach, would be more skilled than a falco only player that beats every single one of that player's characters. The falco player is the best player.

 

[t3h Icy]

pps m2k still ***** when he wants to

Is he your secondary?

I played mango in friendlies for many hours before

I know his skill level

he's the best overall player i think drpp is right after then armada then hbox then me. I'm highly considering not entering melee singles though because it depresses me a lot because I have a bad mentality now and no drive like before. I think I used to be a lot better last year

u can think what u want i rly don't care, i just think he has the most skill overall at the game. drpp may or may not have mastered falco more at this point, it is hard to say

Genesis 2 will have a ton of entrants, so you probably won't meet Dr.PP, or at least not until near the very end.

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

drpp may or may not have mastered falco more at this point, it is hard to say

im pretty sure he does at this point.
at PoundIV mango had to cop out and go jiggs vs hungrybox
he also had to use his jiggs vs armada at genesis because his falco wasnt cutting it...
PP beat (a better) HBOX and armada with just falco
the thing that makes PP a better falco is that it is his only tournament character. he wont pick another character because he is having trouble with a matchup. he learns and improves

 

[Kira-]

Can we just say:

Mango is the most skilled player.

PP is the best player.

People confuse "best" and "skilled" WAY too much. Its quite possible to be the best at something without being the most skilled. Likewise, its possible to be the most skilled and not win. Its also possible to be the best and most skilled, and this tends to be the case but not always.

Lol

even after 3 of the best players in the world say that Mango is the best people still try to argue their point

Yeah i hate when people confuse "best" and "skilled" it totally pisses me off man we need to start a crusade on this because this is such a huge issue and it's preventing us from being able to say that PP is the best UGH man why is life so hard

 

[Bl@ckChris]

pps = post post script.

not pp's.

he should've put a colon there to be more specific.

 

[Merkuri]

Lol

even after 3 of the best players in the world say that Mango is the best people still try to argue their point

Yeah i hate when people confuse "best" and "skilled" it totally pisses me off man we need to start a crusade on this because this is such a huge issue and it's preventing us from being able to say that PP is the best UGH man why is life so hard

After Pound V, I don't see the best players still saying Mango is the best anymore(Drpp, Armada and Hbox were beating him in friendlies anyways), and the only ones who keep insisting that he is the best seems to be west coast.

 

[Kira-]

After Pound V, I don't see the best players still saying Mango is the best anymore(Drpp, Armada and Hbox were beating him in friendlies anyways), and the only ones who keep insisting that he is the best seems to be west coast.

I wish these guys lived in cali:

Mango is still #1 in my opinion.

I agree with PP.

I played against Mango at Pound V and I also have to say he´s still the best player atm.
Ofc he haven´t played serious in tournaments for a long time but he still have incredible skills.

I played mango in friendlies for many hours before

I know his skill level

he's the best overall player i think drpp is right after then armada then hbox then me.

it's okay i rarely read through the whole thread either so i don't blame you much. (not being sarcastic this time lol)

 

[JPOBS]

Lol

even after 3 of the best players in the world say that Mango is the best people still try to argue their point

Yeah i hate when people confuse "best" and "skilled" it totally pisses me off man we need to start a crusade on this because this is such a huge issue and it's preventing us from being able to say that PP is the best UGH man why is life so hard

i think you took my post a bit too seriously.

 

[Xelyst]

m2k has the most knowledge
mango has the most skill and is the best
drpp is a specialist mango is not (when we talk about top 8 national tournament worthiness)

theres something worse than confusing skilled with best, and that is yourselves

seeing as how drpp aramada m2k all agree that mango is #1 i have nothing else to add

 

[Nihonjin]

Considering he's been completely honest for 4 Nationals and CEO and got screwed over himself into debt by Manny, the guy who destroyed GAMME, I find it INCREDIBLY hard to believe that he pocketed the money.

Yes, there are wicked people in this world, but Plank is not one of them. Sure, there's the money one can make off of the tournament, but the guy isn't grimy like that. He's never taken money before, and I've been in contact with him on Facebook.

We ran some events together, and he's in a financial slump right now. According to him he lost $1,000 of his own money after giving up all of the prize money as well, because the costs incurred of the Hotel were that big.

He took a risk because he loves the community. The worst part is that the community won't able to forgive him.

I join PP now in saying that there's nothing that can be done, and we should just move on. Plank is still a a friend to me.

This this this this this.