The Best Players.....again

[HugS™]

I support Plank and I don't think he ran off with the money.

He's been honest for this long, and it seems silly to assume he'd keep up appearances for this long just to screw us out of money in the end.

It would be unwise for him to incur a debt towards the prize winners when he's doing so poorly with his current financial situation. However...

I honestly think if he ever manages to get back on his feet financially, he'd reach out to you prize winners and compensate you all accordingly.



Next topic:

Mango is the best in the world in skill level and ability, however, his lack of trying has made him lose confidence, so by practical means, he is no longer the best. The point is, he very well COULD be, and even now he currently has all the abilities in the world to do it.

Let me say it again, his abilities exceed those of any player right now, and that makes him the #1 most able player in the world, but his mental state is the only issue preventing him from being #1 by a measure of performance.

And it's not that he can't fix it. He's played long enough and been at the top for so long that he's content with retirement.

 

[Divinokage]

Oh well, you can't really force someone to do otherwise. =P

 

[strawhats]

wait...mango has confidence issues? Is this the same kid who uses link against kage in tournament? He seems so confident to me, but I guess you are one of the closest people to mango so you'd know best.

 

[SonuvaBeach]

Next topic:

Mango is the best in the world in skill level and ability, however, his lack of trying has made him lose confidence, so by practical means, he is no longer the best. The point is, he very well COULD be, and even now he currently has all the abilities in the world to do it.

Let me say it again, his abilities exceed those of any player right now, and that makes him the #1 most able player in the world, but his mental state is the only issue preventing him from being #1 by a measure of performance.

And it's not that he can't fix it. He's played long enough and been at the top for so long that he's content with retirement.

Makes sense. I'd imagine the same thing happened to m2k. After you lose your drive, you can't just will it back.

then
PP/Armada
Hbox/m2k
/thread?

 

[Druggedfox]

Why armada above hbox all of a sudden? >_>

 

[Yung Mei]

his lack of trying has made him lose confidence,

what the **** am i reading

 

[Armada]

Druggedfox: I don´t really care what people think about my skill level BUT seriously US tournaments can´t be the only tournaments that counts.

Im going to US so often I can but no top players from US have even visit a european tournament.

After Genesis people still had m2k abovde me and some people had him above after Pound 4 too.
When PP beat my now he took a higher spot on everyones list (first time he outplaced me ever)

When I outplace Hbox first time for a while (2-2 in best place at a tournaments between me and Hbox) people ask why Im higher on the list.

I know PP have improve a lot sience Apex but the thing Is when someone is ranked above me after one tournament they beat me/out place me it´s nothing but when Im above something people ask why

PP <3
Hbox <3

 

[Divinokage]

Druggedfox: I don´t really care what people think about my skill level BUT seriously US tournaments can´t be the only tournaments that counts.

Im going to US so often I can but no top players from US have even visit a european tournament.

After Genesis people still had m2k abovde me and some people had him above after Pound 4 too.
When PP beat my now he took a higher spot on everyones list (first time he outplaced me ever)

When I outplace Hbox first time for a while (2-2 in best place at a tournaments between me and Hbox) people ask why Im higher on the list.

I know PP have improve a lot sience Apex but the thing Is when someone is ranked above me after one tournament they beat me/out place me it´s nothing but when Im above something people ask why

PP <3
Hbox <3

It's called US bias =)

 

[strawhats]

I love this kid...armada so much truth involved in this post.

 

[DJRome]

i doubt mango will win another major tournament tbh.

 

[Merkuri]

Druggedfox: I don´t really care what people think about my skill level BUT seriously US tournaments can´t be the only tournaments that counts.

Im going to US so often I can but no top players from US have even visit a european tournament.

After Genesis people still had m2k abovde me and some people had him above after Pound 4 too.
When PP beat my now he took a higher spot on everyones list (first time he outplaced me ever)

When I outplace Hbox first time for a while (2-2 in best place at a tournaments between me and Hbox) people ask why Im higher on the list.

I know PP have improve a lot sience Apex but the thing Is when someone is ranked above me after one tournament they beat me/out place me it´s nothing but when Im above something people ask why

PP <3
Hbox <3

Well to be fair Armada I think part of the reason is that you've never won a U.S National. Had you beaten hbox at Apex people would have ranked you over him(a lot of people expected you beat him easily enough) and had you beatenDrpp at Pound V people would have ranked you over him. The logic may not be perfect, but it's understandable why people rank those who beat you above you.

 

[Yung Mei]

Well to be fair Armada I think part of the reason is that you've never won a U.S National. Had you beaten hbox at Apex people would have ranked you over him(a lot of people expected you beat him easily enough) and had you beaten Armada at Pound V people would have ranked you over him. The logic may not be perfect, but it's understandable why people rank those who beat you above you.

you realize youre quoting armada right?

 

[KAOSTAR]

Druggedfox: I don´t really care what people think about my skill level BUT seriously US tournaments can´t be the only tournaments that counts.

Im going to US so often I can but no top players from US have even visit a european tournament.

After Genesis people still had m2k abovde me and some people had him above after Pound 4 too.
When PP beat my now he took a higher spot on everyones list (first time he outplaced me ever)

When I outplace Hbox first time for a while (2-2 in best place at a tournaments between me and Hbox) people ask why Im higher on the list.

I know PP have improve a lot sience Apex but the thing Is when someone is ranked above me after one tournament they beat me/out place me it´s nothing but when Im above something people ask why

PP <3
Hbox <3

I think part of it is because PP won. Not hating or anything, but when u win, ppl naturally assume ur the best.

I considered u and Hbox pretty even, but his win over you last time was pretty convincing, idk who is better etc etc, but u going YL ****ed **** up lol. Thats something completely new, its like, did AR just get off like that, or does Hbox have MU johns(aside from allegedly being sick)? IMO AR should be above Hbox based on beating him, and also based on Hbox losing to a few different players.

Most importantly, I think European tourneys means something, but in all honestly...its a different version. Although its not said, this is more likely an NTSC speculation of ranks. Most ppl in America/canada have NEVER played PAL. And most are not familiar with the European scene because they dont show up on Waffles channel lol. Its alot easier to assess the skill of you and Amsah because you have come here and played top US players, multiple times. Its hard to judge skill of other Euro players based on them just playing the few who have been over here, and with a different version.


PPl put M2k above u cuz americans have crazy bias and everybody loves M2k, Im pretty sure they just wanted him to pull something out his *** and **** like he did back in the day.

 

[Stev]

You also have to acknowledge the fact that no other european (with the exception of Amsah's preformance at Pound 4) performed exceptionally at any of the US tournaments (although Over vs M2K was ridiculous at pound 4 too). Armada is clearly in a league of his own in Europe.

 

[Divinokage]

Well you know what, at this point MU johns are bull****.. it's been 10 freaking years this game has been out ffs. How can you not know every matchup at this point.. A top player is expected to know everything inside/out... when someone loses it just means he got outplayed AT THAT TIME. This is why it's a tournament, you don't get 2nd chances to redeem yourself. Of course if you continue a set with the same matchup, different things happen all the time but you can't. =P Of course this applies to me against Mango's Link for example, I think I was unprepared for it but it was more his style than the matchup, I messed up a lot of spacing decisions because of him for example, it's not because of the matchup precisely.

 

[NeutralDamage]

Okay, so Armada is the world's best player in Europe, and second best player in the world in America^^. That's fair enough.

 

[-ACE-]

Well you know what, at this point MU johns are bull****.. it's been 10 freaking years this game has been out ffs. How can you not know every matchup at this point.. A top player is expected to know everything inside/out... when someone loses it just means he got outplayed AT THAT TIME. This is why it's a tournament, you don't get 2nd chances to redeem yourself. Of course if you continue a set with the same matchup, different things happen all the time but you can't. =P Of course this applies to me against Mango's Link for example, I think I was unprepared for it but it was more his style than the matchup, I messed up a lot of spacing decisions because of him for example, it's not because of the matchup precisely.

Aaaaand you wasted a lotta grabs, aaaand you edgeguarded him poorly sometimes, aaaand you didn't chaingrab enough... lol <3 Kage.

I agree with you.

 

[Divinokage]

Aaaaand you wasted a lotta grabs, aaaand you edgeguarded him poorly sometimes, aaaand you didn't chaingrab enough... lol <3 Kage.

I agree with you.

Haha, it's impossible to play perfectly all the time. =P

 

[Nø Ca$h]

vanz almost beat hbox at a no johns tournament right before apex using young link

 

[Druggedfox]

@Armada

I know what you mean, but I don't think its fair to say you are strictly better than hungrybox. You've both done amazingly at all the nationals/internationals you've both been to. He 5-0d you last time, you 2-0d him this time. Yeah, America needs to go to Europe, but in the meantime I don't really think its fair to say one of you is better than the other. As for PP, thats the US bias of him having not lost a tournament since rom3 or something on top of beating you at pound 5. I think any statements of who is better should really be reserved for america going over to europe, or at least until genesis 2.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Well you know what, at this point MU johns are bull****.. it's been 10 freaking years this game has been out ffs. How can you not know every matchup at this point.. A top player is expected to know everything inside/out... when someone loses it just means he got outplayed AT THAT TIME. This is why it's a tournament, you don't get 2nd chances to redeem yourself. Of course if you continue a set with the same matchup, different things happen all the time but you can't. =P Of course this applies to me against Mango's Link for example, I think I was unprepared for it but it was more his style than the matchup, I messed up a lot of spacing decisions because of him for example, it's not because of the matchup precisely.

I really really want to agree because its how I feel, but I know that MU johns are legitimate to a degree. In 10 yrs there has only been 1 yoshi to make it into brackets at a large scale US tourney for example. Some characters are just underplayed. For some low tiers the meta game is still advancing, for others there are no ppl playing them. Sometimes ppl are caught off guard by tricks and stuff because they havent seen them or as u said simply werent prepared for them. I mean AR def gets credit for his YL win, but Id like to see it again....then its a no johns.

I think its fair to say Hbox was caught off guard, kinda like losing to a bigger version of YL u kno . He did lose to a few non top competitors tho, so he has def been fluctuating in skill. AR has been consistent at the top, and beat him at pound. Lets just wait until G2 haha.

 

[hungrybox]

1. PP (current Throneholder)
2-4. Me, Mango, Armada

In sets

.....4 way tie?

I love this game's unpredictability

 

[-ACE-]

hbox lost to a few non top competitors? he was sick as **** and s2j is one of the best falcons out, not sure what you meant by that... who else did he lose to? don't matta that boy was sick as dark's combo vid

 

[t3h Icy]

I still think Amsah is a top calliber player, but not quite at the level of PP, Armada, etc. It's unfortunate that he ran into probably the absolute worst possible opponent, but that means he has to step it up with the Falcon match-up somehow.

Mango, Armada, Dr.PP and Hungrybox are the best players in some order.

 

[-ACE-]

Amsah just didn't have a good day. It doesn't mean he should be dropped much on ppl's lists imo. He just goofed up some stuff on one particular day (wasted grabs vs pp, lack of suffocating falcon, etc.).

 

[DJRome]

hbox lost to a few non top competitors? he was sick as **** and s2j is one of the best falcons out, not sure what you meant by that... who else did he lose to? don't matta that boy was sick as dark's combo vid

i don't think chu, fly, or s2j (and armada's yl ) are anywhere near the top tho. i mean, none has placed top 5 (probably not even top 10) at a national in recent memory

 

[KAOSTAR]

Yea, Ill give hbox being sick at pound. Cuz that mcDonals ****ed a few smashers up, probably the lettuce or something again..Mcdubs for the win lol.

I think after Genesis 2 everything will be answered. but for now, Id say

Mango
PP
AR/Hbox
M2k
Axe
Jman/Hax/amsah/another dude/another dude

I put axe above hax and jman simply because he beat both of them...jman twice, also he plays pikachu pre good lol.

 

[-ACE-]

Ah yeah I dunno how I forgot about his loss to fly. Oh well, fly *****! he might not be the most consistent player but at this point he's def a contender for best ICs.

 

[DJRome]

plus didn't he lose to lucky? not saying lucky is bad, but lucky is almost as inconsistent as fly given his history of losing to a bunch of sheiks and stuff

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

Mango is supposed to make his comeback at Genesis 2.

so what if he doesnt win???

will most of you take him off the number one spot???

 

[Biglard]

i don't think chu, fly, or s2j (and armada's yl ) are anywhere near the top tho. i mean, none has placed top 5 (probably not even top 10) at a national in recent memory

Fly placed 5th at DGDTJ and S2J 7th.

It might not have been a really big national, but it's still impressive nonetheless.

Also, I think I haven't given my opinion here yet (even if it might be not so original):

0 Cactuar
1 Mango (because Peepee/Armada/M2K/HBox say so and I think they feel this kind of stuff better than I do)
2 Peepee
3 Armada
4 HBox
5 M2K
6 Amsah
7 Jman
8 Axe
9 Hax
10 MacD KK Shroomed Remen Lovage HugS Zhu Fly S2J Lucky Taj (and I might be forgetting others)

Edit to Mr-0.: as I said, Armada Peepee and M2K (and HBox, I didn't know his opinion on this topic but I now do) say it themselves. You might be a good smash player, but why would you believe your own opinion over the opinion of 4 top 5 players?

 

[Mr.-0]

It's absolutely idiotic to put Mango above PeePee or Armada at this point.

 

[hungrybox]

It's absolutely idiotic to put Mango above PeePee or Armada at this point.

except for the fact that he's the most skilled player who ever lived.

 

[DJRome]

i don't consider dgdtj more than a regional and those people still aren't in that top class that makes you qualified for top level consideration

 

[Divinokage]

Fly placed 5th at DGDTJ and S2J 7th.

It might not have been a really big national, but it's still impressive nonetheless.

Also, I think I haven't given my opinion here yet (even if it might be not so original):

0 Cactuar
1 Mango (because Peepee/Armada/M2K/HBox say so and I think they feel this kind of stuff better than I do)
2 Peepee
3 Armada
4 HBox
5 M2K
6 Amsah
7 Jman
8 Axe
9 Hax
10 MacD KK Shroomed Remen Lovage HugS Zhu Fly S2J Lucky (and I might be forgetting others)

Edit to Mr-0.: as I said, Armada Peepee and M2K (and HBox, I didn't know his opinion on this topic but I now do) say it themselves. You might be a good smash player, but why would you believe your own opinion over the opinion of 4 top 5 players?

You are forgetting a lot of people... Making a list like that won't do you any good.

I really really want to agree because its how I feel, but I know that MU johns are legitimate to a degree. In 10 yrs there has only been 1 yoshi to make it into brackets at a large scale US tourney for example. Some characters are just underplayed. For some low tiers the meta game is still advancing, for others there are no ppl playing them. Sometimes ppl are caught off guard by tricks and stuff because they havent seen them or as u said simply werent prepared for them. I mean AR def gets credit for his YL win, but Id like to see it again....then its a no johns.

I think its fair to say Hbox was caught off guard, kinda like losing to a bigger version of YL u kno . He did lose to a few non top competitors tho, so he has def been fluctuating in skill. AR has been consistent at the top, and beat him at pound. Lets just wait until G2 haha.

The MU simply shows you that one character has more tools to shutdown other characters. It's the fact for example Armada brilliantly used YL tools to his advantage and barely showed any weaknesses through out the match. It's how you use these tools that make a player extremely smart... which is why I don't buy MU johns anymore, it's simply get outplayed.

 

[tarheeljks]

i don't consider dgdtj more than a regional and those people still aren't in that top class that makes you qualified for top level consideration

that doesn't mean there weren't (very) good players there

 

[Stratford]

Druggedfox: I don´t really care what people think about my skill level BUT seriously US tournaments can´t be the only tournaments that counts.

Im going to US so often I can but no top players from US have even visit a european tournament.

After Genesis people still had m2k abovde me and some people had him above after Pound 4 too.
When PP beat my now he took a higher spot on everyones list (first time he outplaced me ever)

When I outplace Hbox first time for a while (2-2 in best place at a tournaments between me and Hbox) people ask why Im higher on the list.

I know PP have improve a lot sience Apex but the thing Is when someone is ranked above me after one tournament they beat me/out place me it´s nothing but when Im above something people ask why

PP <3
Hbox <3

Wow this post is so solid. Get 'em, Armada.

 

[Cactuar]

I just consider there to be a different ranking for PAL players than there is for NTSC...

Armada is ranked in NTSC because he has come and played in NTSC tournaments...

Really, the thread could just be "The Best Players (NTSC)" and that would solve that whole back and forth.

 

[Divinokage]

Cactuar, let's be warriors and go to Europe. =P

 

[Grinin]

1. Mango
2. PP/Armada
4. Hbox
5. Amsah/M2K
7. Axe/Jman

Then it's like everyone else duking it out...

Zhu/SS/Lucky/Hax/Darkrain/Shiz/Shroomed/Chops/PC/etc....