Stage Information Database and Q&A

[Ghostbone]

Then why is brinstar still here if only 1 character that is rarely used that can use brinstar vs MK while the rest are too afraid to CP brinstar with fear of pocket MKs?

I know brinstar is a legit stage, but keeping it here is just isn't helping anyone besides MK and Jigglypuff. But i think Brinstar shouldn't stay while MK is around. The people who ban RC when it comes to the Brinstar/RC combo, i think they would like just banning RC and going to a different CP like delfino, halberd, or what not...


though i just thought of a sill direct surgical nerf to MK and CPing.

Basically, everyone gets 2 stage bans, however the 2nd stage ban doesn't count if the opponent is not using MK. Why this way? Because it doesn't matter about character choice during game 1, it stops pocket MKs and MK from having the brinstar/RC combo. However when the person wants to go to the 2nd ban, then he can't switch to MK or must switch off MK.

direct surgical nerf that doesn't give MK 2 stage bans but having 2 stage bans vs MK. Doesn't hurt people who use multiple characters either.

ex:

Player A bans Brinstar, then RC

Player B can either:

CP RC, but cannot be MK
CP another stage, and be whoever he wants.

Player B counter-picks RC, Player A switches to MK.

Dam

 

[Ussi]

If player A switches to MK he loses his 2nd ban

Mk dittos commence. But player A doesn't have to fear fighting an MK as a non-mk

Realized i forgot to mention something.

 

[theunabletable]

The reason why you think you beat me so easily is because MK beats Diddy on that stage. It's not a bad stage, my character just sucks on it.

It's not just your character, it's every single character other than G&W, Wario, and Jiggs I guess.

Considering your character does better there than most of the characters I've played there, and that you're a much better player than I am, it seems like I shouldn't have a stressless 2 stock victory, right after being 2 stocked on a neutral stage.

It's not like MK is completely broken all around. He's beatable on many stages that aren't stupid as ****, and Diddy's counterpicks are not even up to par as far as polarness goes.

Fighting against Diddy on FD is not even comparable to fighting MK on RC, unless you're Mister Game and Watch, or you're Wario.

Like fighting against Diddy on FD turns it into probably an even matchup, or possibly Diddy's favor (I'm not really sure, but it's probably 60-40, or 55-45 on SV), it's a noticeable, but fairly minor change.

Fighting MK on RC as Diddy really changes it into a ****ing 70-30 (or whatever number you'd put on a matchup where you have to be significantly better than your opponent to win), and not because Diddy is bad there, or Diddy doesn't have the tools there. Diddy might be bad there, but in that same way, most of the cast is bad there. Diddy is still tougher to fight there than almost everyone below him on the tier list, bar G&W, Wario, and I guess Snake and maybe Fox (I might be forgetting a few. EDIT: Oh ZSS isn't too pitiful here). It's so tough because MK gains things there he has on literally no other stage. There's no other stage where he can safely stay on the ledge, where you can't touch him, and then be under you with his really good uair the entire match.

idk if you guys want to keep these noncompetitive, ridiculous stages legal, go for it. It really doesn't effect me negatively, other than me feeling that it's simply unfair. I don't have the patience to sit here and debate against something that really only helps me (however stupid it is that it helps me, and shouldn't be there to help me at all).

Although I'd like to note that any analogy comparing ICs or Diddy on FD to MK on RC is complete and utter bull****. We don't live in a world of black and white, stages aren't separated into "advantage" or "disadvantage" in matchups. There's "small advantage", "noticeable advantage", "huge advantage", vice versa, and everything in-between.

It's completely ignorant, and foolish to assume that they are even comparable situations, when the degree of severity is so vastly different.

You can keep these stages legal if you want, because the 2 G&W mains, and 4 Wario mains deserve to benefit from having an extra CP, at the cost of the characters that keep MK down, Falco, Diddy, Snake, etc all having to go to a **** stage, and have a free-loss against the character that 50% of the damn community plays, go for it.

If you're so stuck in your ways that you believe that letting G&W and Wario have an extra counterpick is an important reason in letting the most controversial and borderline character in the series, one that is played in, what, 50% of the matches played in tournaments (or so, right? I might be off, but definitely not by a whole lot), and that it's worth it to give the best character in the game, who decides which characters are good in the metagame, then I really don't have the patience to debate with you, as it'll go no where.

I'm just gonna put this out there. If your main argument against the idea of RC/Brinstar combined being too powerful for MK is "But it gets rid of Wario and G&W and Jigglypuff having an extra good CP stage!", ask yourself this. Are the benefits of having 2 obscure characters, who have like 8 people combined playing them, gain CPs that help them a bit in certain matchups, (I don't think I've ever seen a good Wario play on Brinstar unless the opponent didn't know to ban it against him, since it's always just banned against wario players, it seems) worth the detriment of the best, most controversial character in the series, played by half the community, gaining a free win against a super majority of the cast, a free win that he doesn't have on really any other stages?

I can't imagine any reasonable person believing that Wario and G&W gaining a CP (that's usually banned against them anyways) is worth the cost of the already best and far away most popular character in the game gaining a free win. But if you believe that to be logical, and comparable to the strengths that ICs or D3 or Diddy or whoever you say gains on FD (even though there's only one FD, so you can just ban it, and they don't guaranteed have another FD to go to), go ahead, I can't stop you. I'll continue beating players that are better than me on these stages, and having chances at beating ranked players that I shouldn't even have available to me because I'm trash at the game.

 

[BSP]

My opinion on why banning RC/Brinstar still won't get us anywhere. Alternate stages, of course, don't give the amount of favor toward MK as RC and Brin do, but they are still ******** for MK at times.

Banning Brin/RC will not solve the MK dominance problem. Even with the stages gone, these facts remain

1) MK still beats every character in the game and has no cons to using. This will STILL attract many players to Meta Knight just to remain on even grounds with everyone else.
2)MK STILL can't get CP'd. If someone CPs your main to their bad stage, you can STILL go MK to nullify this effect. MK REMAINS the ONE go to character.
3)MK has other counterpicks like SV (Scrooge), PS1 (timeout), Frigate (timeout), Halberd (Shark), and Delfino (Sharking and Timeout). Don't think Brin/RC are MK's only good stages. MKs will find other ways to dominate.
4)MK is the problem, not the stages. Name me one instance in which brinstar has proven broken that doesn't involve MK. MK, as a character, can break nearly any stage with his tactics and abilities. See the stages above..

I'm opposed to banning the stages because I think they are legitimate otherwise, and I don't think it's going to help with the MK problem in the long run tbh.

We're wasting time here anyway. Take this to the BRC.

 

[theunabletable]

It sounds kind of silly to me to say
"Well MK is more broken with these stages legal, but because he's still broken (to a lesser extent with these stages banned, which is debatable) without them, these stages are fine"

I can't pinpoint exactly what it is about that that just hits my common sense meter and sounds ridiculous, but I think it's the part about how it just sounds like giving up. "Well this is a problem to a lesser extent no matter what, so there's no point in alleviating the problem a bit".

And also, this line of logic "Well if MK is banned, then the stage is perfectly fine, therefore it's a fine stage, despite MK is legal, and because of this, the stage is legitimate all the time" is pretty silly, too.

The metagame is not MK being banned. If the stage is legitimate with MK banned, then it's legitimate with MK banned. It's pretty silly to say "Well this stage is fine with a different ruleset, therefore it's automatically fine in every ruleset", although I can't really communicate exactly why it's ridiculous, I can only give analogies that will hopefully make you get the same subjective feeling from that line of logic lol

 

[Arcansi]

Wait... It seems like MK is the whole problem.

But the community as a whole seems to be really scared to act on it, and as such we end up here.

If I'm wrong, someone tell me.

 

[theunabletable]

You could say that MK is the whole problem if that makes you feel better, but saying that it's MK, and attempting to ban him when it probably won't ever happen, instead of trying to make the issue less... well of an issue doesn't help us as a community at all.

I wouldn't even say it's THAT much of a problem. MK's beatable even if he gets close to a free win once every set. It's kinda stupid imo to say "Well MK is an issue, so because he's the issue and not the stages, then the stages should never be banned because of MK, so MK will stay legal, and the stages will stay broken because of him".

It's like saying "Well it's MK that's broken, not the ledge, so we should never ban planking, but because we can't ban MK, we'll keep both planking and MK legal"

it's even more silly that people actually say that... >_>

And, really, to say that it's MK, and not the stages makes little sense. The stages become more of an issue in combination with MK. MK becomes more of an issue in combination with the stages. They aren't exclusive things, and they shouldn't be treated like exclusive things. If MK is broken on those stages, just because if he's hypothetically not in the picture those stages are fine doesn't mean that those stages are now magically fine with MK there.

If the stages become an issue with MK around, then the stages are simply an issue with a ruleset that has MK around. It doesn't matter if the issue arose because of MK existing, or because of the stage existing. If the stage didn't exist, it wouldn't be an issue, if the character didn't exist, it wouldn't be an issue. The issue remains the same regardless of which one inherently causes the issue.

However we're given choices about how to alleviate the issue. The two simplest, or most commonly suggested, ones come to mind: Ban MK, or ban the stage.

Which one would damage the metagame, the community, and split the community less? And which one would be easier to accomplish, and therefore alleviate the problem most efficiently?

Placing blame on the correct things is important, because it allows us to take the measures that lead to the best all-around results. But if we're wasting our time, effort, and lowering our overall effectiveness in our attempts to place blame correctly, whether it be due to it not being possible to give 100% blame on one thing, or for any other reason, then we're basically just wasting time, effort, and... well... lowering our overall efficiency and effectiveness and ability to make good decisions lol

EDIT: I would like to acknowledge that I do know that arguing that MK having a close to free win on his counterpicks isn't inherently an issue, and whether it's an issue or not is also up to debate. But this is more on what's the best course of action and why, if it is indeed thought to be an issue by the majority of the community

 

[Arcansi]

You could say that MK is the whole problem if that makes you feel better, but saying that it's MK, and attempting to ban him when it probably won't ever happen, instead of trying to make the issue less... well of an issue doesn't help us as a community at all.

I wouldn't even say it's THAT much of a problem. MK's beatable even if he gets close to a free win once every set. It's kinda stupid imo to say "Well MK is an issue, so because he's the issue and not the stages, then the stages should never be banned because of MK, so MK will stay legal, and the stages will stay broken because of him".

It's like saying "Well it's MK that's broken, not the ledge, so we should never ban planking, but because we can't ban MK, we'll keep both planking and MK legal"

it's even more silly that people actually say that... >_>

You se... aww f it.

go on.

 

[John12346]

Just for the record, there have been tournaments with Brinstar or RC(or both) illegal, and MK still took top spots.

Heck, there's going to be a big-*** regional here on the 30th, and Brinstar isn't going to be legal. I'll be sure to keep close watch on those results.

Although I don't really have a choice in the matter, since I'm going to be there anyway and I have to keep track of the results of all NA tournaments... w/e lol

 

[BSP]

Table, I don't think removing one or both will cut down MK's dominance drastically for the reasons I've stated.

Apex is coming up, that could be a test. If it's really just the stages, I'd gladly ban one stage than force the community through such a drastic change. But, since MK is MK, I don't think it's just the stages. As I said, he's got other CPs and qualities that attract most players.

Also, what happens to the next stage that gets MK infested? (you know they'll go somewhere). If it becomes near auto win there too (i'd imagine by timeouts or sharking) are we going to ban that too? The next stage as well?

@Arcansi - In terms of Brinstar/RC, it's totally correct and should be noted that MK is the problem.

@Table again

EDIT: I would like to acknowledge that I do know that arguing that MK having a close to free win on his counterpicks isn't inherently an issue, and whether it's an issue or not is also up to debate. But this is more on what's the best course of action and why, if it is indeed thought to be an issue by the majority of the community

The BRC apparently does not see it as a problem, since they've claimed that neither Brinstar nor RC will be getting banned.

 

[theunabletable]

Actually, I guess I probably didn't make this clear before, and I apologize for that, but I don't think it's dominance that's the issue. The issue is that it's simply less fair than the alternative. It's less fair to, atleast, a notable level that should require discussion. RC and Brinstar are ridiculously powerful counterpicks, to a level that no character in the game has, other than certain characters with certain illegal stages that have circles.

His other counterpicks aren't free wins (Delfino, and Frigate), they're added advantages, in the same vein as ICs taking you to FD. Which is kind of what the counterpick system tries to do. Delfino and Frigate are pretty tough to fight against MK on, and with those still legal, you're probably not going to see a drastic drop in MK dominance.

idk I have an issue with the best and most popular character in the game getting a near free-win for one set per game, to a degree that no character in the series has ever had.

Heck, there's going to be a big-*** regional here on the 30th, and Brinstar isn't going to be legal. I'll be sure to keep close watch on those results.

The results very likely won't be a drastic drop in MK doing well.

Just looking at statistics probably won't give you too much of an idea of the benefits of getting rid of a free win for MK. You should interview all the non-MK players who went, and ask if they appreciated the experience of the tournament more, with not having to go to Brinstar or RC if their opponent wanted to.

And further, there's a good chance that your results will stay more consistent overall, with the removal of a stage with random giant hazards going on.

I mean the more randomness you remove, the more consistent results are likely to be haha

Although I would guess that you'd get long-term, less bitterness towards MK and the game itself with the removal of one of those stages. But that's really hard to prove with any sort of statistics.

But, since MK is MK, I don't think it's just the stages. As I said, he's got other CPs and qualities that attract most players.

Yeah, that's exactly true. He'll probably still win most of the time on his counterpick, instead of closer to 100% (if the MK is trying to win, anyways), simply because he has strong counterpicks. But they're strong in the way that FD is strong for certain characters.

But with people quitting commonly because of MK, and I think everyone can tell that the game is starting to go downhill as far as morale, opinions on it goes, etc (just everything lol), a pretty large factor in that is probably MK. I really have no way to prove this objectively in the way you like (it's hard to keep statistics for morale in the way you keep statistics for stages used), and that's unfortunate, but maybe you've noticed the same things.

It seems like a bad decision for our community and metagame to give MK RC and Brinstar

Anyways, I wish I had more time to elaborate on what I"m saying, and attempt to atleast give evidence better than the flawed anecdotal stuff I can come up with off the top of my head. It basically just comes down to, well, do you think it's healthy for a game that looks like it might have started dying to give our best character two extremely strong counterpicks?

 

[SaveMeJebus]

I can't think of a legit reason to ban RC other than the fact that it is stupid to keep a stage like this legal while a stage like Jungle Japes is banned.

 

[Player-1]

Jungle Japes is bad and so are you.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Jungle Japes is bad and so are you.

 

[WindMajor]

Why do they always ban Toon Link's good stages?

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

@Table: stopped reading around where you claimed that RC is uncompetitive, or even broken for MK.

Bizkit vs. M2K at CoT5. **** your argument. There are plenty of chars that play decently against MK on RC. Snake, Wario, G&W, ZSS, Pikachu... Just like any other stage. Boo hoo, Diddy and Falco suffer somewhat. Cry my a river. RC is simply not broken for MK. The evidence does not point to this being the case at all.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

@Table: stopped reading around where you claimed that RC is uncompetitive, or even broken for MK.

Bizkit vs. M2K at CoT5. **** your argument. There are plenty of chars that play decently against MK on RC. Snake, Wario, G&W, ZSS, Pikachu... Just like any other stage. Boo hoo, Diddy and Falco suffer somewhat. Cry my a river. RC is simply not broken for MK. The evidence does not point to this being the case at all.

That is a bad argument seeing as how Bizkit lost that match by time out. We know that RC is a good time out stage for MK and we don't ban it, yet we ban a stage that we think might cause time outs? That's just dumb

 

[Player-1]

RC is broken for MK, just not as much as everyone thinks it to be.

 

[Yikarur]

imagine Bizkit hadn't got that random C4 kill :D

 

[xDD-Master]

50% of every match on RC goes to time or at least over 6 minutes resulting not in a timeout due to people failing at the stage (SDs).

Thats just plain stupid.

I agree that, when RC is allowed, there is NO argument at all left to not include Japes.

RC can force SDs stupidly, JJ might kill you.
RC can go to time often, JJ can go to time.

Same stupid ****, no reason to keep one and ban the other.

 

[Bizkit047]

imagine Bizkit hadn't got that random C4 kill :D

Poor argument. Imagine I didn't Usmash by accident end of game 3 before dying. /Same thing

 

[Player-1]

50% of every match on RC goes to time or at least over 6 minutes resulting not in a timeout due to people failing at the stage (SDs).

Thats just plain stupid.

I agree that, when RC is allowed, there is NO argument at all left to not include Japes.

RC can force SDs stupidly, JJ might kill you.
RC can go to time often, JJ can go to time.

Same stupid ****, no reason to keep one and ban the other.

lol@RC can force SDs stupidly. You're the one being stupid if you're the one SDing.

 

[xDD-Master]

RC forces you to move, if you fail at doing so, you die.
What other legal stage forces you to move that much, that often, that quick and that risky?

When you say this about RC, then you could say the same about Japes "You are not getting killed by the stage, you are dumb for jumping into the klaptrap".

 

[Player-1]

I guess when you get hit off stage you're forced to move and if you fail at doing so you do, I guess we should ban hitting people next right?

 

[xDD-Master]

I'd rather ban you for stupid argumentation ;D

Nah jk, but there is a different between your oppenant forces you to do something by knocking you off stage, and the stage forces you to do something because of changing the whole time.



Why is big blue banned btw.?

 

[ぱみゅ]

There's actualy no difference when you consider the game is about "making your opponent hit the bast zone" instead of "hitting your opponent until he dies".

Again, that's just some different ways to think....



And BigBlue is banned because certain characters can reach points that others cannot for very long periods of time... iirc...

 

[xDD-Master]

And BigBlue is banned because certain characters can reach points that others cannot for very long periods of time... iirc...

Dont think so.

 

[Player-1]

When RC has a set point of traveling and everything is non-random then you shouldn't be SDing in stupid ways if you know the stage well. It actually helps people with bad recoveries (aside from tethers) as long as you when things spawn/disappear and which things are constant.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Meta Knight cannot be caught on Big Blue.

 

[Ussi]

Big blue has a severe penalty for landing on the road track.

Though i don't know how easy/hard it is to exploit since the only times i've played it was not serious.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

The track is pretty easy to avoid depending on your character/stage knowledge, in my experience.

 

[xDD-Master]

Big blue has a severe penalty for landing on the road track.

Japes - Croc.
RC - Not moving.
...

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

50% of every match on RC goes to time or at least over 6 minutes resulting not in a timeout due to people failing at the stage (SDs).

This might happen in europe because people never use the stage. Here's the thing though: smart people don't go killing themselves on RC. That's because they don't suck at the stage.

And there's a reason I picked Bizkit vs. M2K. It's one of the top 2 MKs in the world barely winning against a relatively unknown Snake (nothing against Bizkit, but he's not exactly an internationally known name) on RC. Look at that match again and tell me-why is MK broken on this stage again? And what's better, the self-same snake won on the starter and lost on his counterpick. Just sayin'.

RC forces you to move, if you fail at doing so, you die.
What other legal stage forces you to move that much, that often, that quick and that risky?

None. That's kind of why RC is so awesome: it's unique. But you're completely overrating just how dangerous it is. Protip: it isn't. Hell, even Link likes this stage. The character with the worst non-tether recovery in the game. The idea that MK "can't be caught" is one that's been pretty thoroughly debunked. Certain characters suck on this stage, I know. But others do just fine, even against MK. Like, say, your character.

When you say this about RC, then you could say the same about Japes "You are not getting killed by the stage, you are dumb for jumping into the klaptrap".

Uh... Yeah. You are dumb for jumping into the klaptrap. It's on a timer, completely non-random, hard to combo into, and so far away from the rest of the action that it's actually completely reasonable to say "go here in this time and you deserve to die".

Japes - Croc.
RC - Not moving.
...

This is because that's not the reason we ban it. You can essentially stall out the stage for about 90% of the match due to the way the platforms are set up. Someone like, say, Falco could never catch a camping MK on Big Blue.

 

[xDD-Master]

2 Things cadet:

1.
"Europe sucks", yet I see many Americans inc. Japanese failing at the stage.
"Nearly beat M2K", it was soooo clear to everyone that M2K sucked balls @ CoT5 compared to his other tournaments -> Ergo getting ***** by Ally, Genesis2 he ***** Ally. Easy.
"Not hard to combo into" ehm... CG to Spike anyone? Peachs Moves that knockback horizontally? DDD Dthrow that kinda throws you into the water? Some Grab Releases? Beside that, it often happens kinda random.
"Link liking RC" xDDDDDDDDDD

At least you understood my RC part, that its unique. How about, we dont want that? =D
(No, lets not start that discussion again, we should be over it already )

2.
We still dont ban stages because of characters...
If it's like on Hyrule where in probably 80% of all Match Ups the MU gets 100:0 due to the stage, because one character can always run away while the other cant catch up, then it obviously is banworthy.
If thats not the case, and it's probably like some MK MUs, and maybe 1-2% overall MUs. Then thats probably not enough.
Especially with other ridiculious stages allowed.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

2 Things cadet:

1.
"Europe sucks", yet I see many Americans inc. Japanese failing at the stage.

Then they're worse at navigating Rainbow Cruise than I am. Once they get that up to speed, everything else comes into much greater focus, but until the player figures out how to play on RC, the other skills in brawl may appear slightly mitigated, but I guarantee that once you figure out, all the other skills come right back into play.

"Nearly beat M2K", it was soooo clear to everyone that M2K sucked balls @ CoT5 compared to his other tournaments -> Ergo getting ***** by Ally, Genesis2 he ***** Ally. Easy.

First of all... He placed second at a major national. I don't care how much he "sucked" at that tournament, he got second place at a ****ing national. Who gives a **** if he was slightly off his game? He's still one of the best players in the game regardless of whether or not he's on top of his game or not, and he still placed second.

Secondly, I might accept that if this was an isolated event. Go ahead, find me some vids of high level play where MK clearly ***** the opponent that isn't a matchup that sucks on that stage beyond reason. I mean, even Broodstar kept the match fairly even... Just to put things into perspective, we're talking about a ****ing Japanese Olimar. Olimar, who genuinely is horrid on RC, played by someone who possibly never had to play the stage in a tournament set before that tournament. An Olimar who got 3-stocked in under two minutes game one.

But yeah, go on. Vids, plz. Here's a few tips though:
1. It doesn't help your case if the character in question sucks balls against everyone on RC
2. It really doesn't help your case if he then proceeds to lose on his counterpick.

"Not hard to combo into" ehm... CG to Spike anyone? Peachs Moves that knockback horizontally? DDD Dthrow that kinda throws you into the water? Some Grab Releases? Beside that, it often happens kinda random.

"Random" meaning "completely timed and non-random"? Let me be perfectly clear: if I knock you into the klaptrap, I abused a completely non-random element in the stage, dependent entirely on timing and positioning. I liken it to getting stage-spiked on, say, FD.

"Link liking RC" xDDDDDDDDDD

That would be what I heard. I'll retract that statement, but I'm pretty sure someone from the link boards said it.

At least you understood my RC part, that its unique. How about, we dont want that? =D
(No, lets not start that discussion again, we should be over it already )

Then you all suck. You could not want anything and it would get banned. This much is obvious. But is it smart? No.

Plus I was under the impression we were debating whether or not RC was broken, not popular.

 

[Ghostbone]

BPC, the point is the klap trap is seemingly random, often neither player will plan to hit the other in, and as a result they'll get a stock that they didn't really earn.

Whether or not that's a problem is debatable, since it technically wasn't random.

 

[WindMajor]

I'm kinda glad that the klap trap is there though, since it alleviates a lot of water stalling problems, as well as makes matches more enjoyable to watch. =P

 

[Life]

As Twinkie said a long time ago, let's ban the opponent because he's random

 

[Player-1]

Biggest problem I have with the klap trap is that it comes too often, the chances of hitting it when hit into the water (while not good) are too good since it's an instant kill at most percents. It'd be like Rainbow Cruise but with the camera fixed on the rising part of the stage in terms of being off the stage can kill you at really low percents.

 

[WindMajor]

So guys

Norfair guide


I'm past the halfway mark on it, and I'm already finishing up with all the remaining sections of it. One of those sections, however, is the Legality section, which I intend on doing last. Before I finish the rest of the remaining sections and move on to the Legality section, I want to ask you guys on your opinion for something.

How should the legality section it be done?

My personal stance is for legalizing Norfair, btw. What would you guys prefer to see?

1) Me selecting topics (that I already picked out) and explaining why I think it should be legal, and finish there.
2) Having some sort of anti-ban pro-ban write up on those same topics, in which I represent anti-ban, and someone else can represent pro-ban.

For those wondering, the topics would be: Hazards, Influence on Cast, Stalling Potential, Counterpick Qualities, Double Standards.