Empy
Smash Ace
Me dunno, me no English.
Still Ike.
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Smash Back Room Weekly Character Discussions! FINAL UPDATES: Ness + Lucas. All done!!
- Thread starter SamuraiPanda
- Start date
cj.Shark
Smash Ace
Breaking any or all projectiles coming at him while advancing or Moving away with lagless precision that a Mirrorshield or angel ring would fail at. Its basically a Moving Powershield.
Not every competetive Pit player CAN wavedash to begin with. (by that i mean applications or they make mistakes). obviously if your learning an AT It will do more harm then Good when your still trying it out. Its called an Advanced Technique for a reason. Dont tell me you can learn wavedashing in a day and be 2x better after that. and if you ask me The majority of the people here arent ready for ATs. You can wingdash cool but you still cantshield roll away from MK's most telegraphed attack the downsmash. Fundamentals before ATs
_Phloat_
Smash Champion
Oh Snap
Smash Ace
Sounds like ZSS...
Al_Di_Medola
Smash Journeyman
its Yoshi.
the Lexx
Smash Apprentice
lucas has tons of useless ats
Useless: having or being of no use
Gimmicky: an important feature that is not immediately apparent : an ingenious and usually new scheme or angle
Impressive: having the power to excite attention, awe, or admiration
The hint stated they were gimmicky, yet impressive. Where in those definitions do you see anything related to the
word useless?
Definitions taken from Merriam-Webster.
cj.Shark
Smash Ace
thanks. Now its even more Pit.
Master WGS
Smash Lord
Yeah, I'm thinking Pit as well.
Timbers
check me out
Only the initial hitbox has any killing power unless they're at like 160-170..or around there >_> Dsmash is basically just a weaker version of the fsmash in terms of application. I mean you can correct me if you want, but the fsmash has greater range and generally same startup. The only difference is the dsmash catches spotdodges, but even then the second and third hits don't have incredible knockback.Who said that was his only killing move? The down smash has a good amount of knock back and is hard to spot-doge (It's also convinent for edge guarding, I personally love this move), his Ftilt and Fair usually kill at high percentages, his Back throw can K.O if your next to the edge, and he can always edge guard people thanks to PKT and his two spikes.
The Up-smash is also a crazy KO move, but thanks to its laggyness, your likely to only pull it off if your opponent makes a HUGE mistake.
Usmash is dependent on your opponent ****ing up, which isn't that good to make note on.
Dair spike is weak and bair spike is crazy difficult to sweetspot when compared to other spikes.
bthrow, ftilt, and fair don't kill until like 150, and unless I'm insane Lucas' generally like using the ftilt and fair to rack damage. I think uair would be more plausable a killmove than what you suggested >_>
Samus has probably the most applicable spike in the game. Doesn't change the general opinion that she still has no killmoves.
All in all it's just my opinion, but when you only have one killmove that isn't extremely telegraphed, I think it's safe to say they do have trouble getting a kill lol.
arm
Smash Apprentice
If its not Pit, Im becoming an hero. Also, I have yet to see WoI stop a projectile. I wonder what it looks like...
Rogue Pit
Smash Lord
Arm check NxC's sig.
Also ive noticed most people seem to always think its their main char. Aside from actual fact this reasoning is tainted by favoritism.
+) i still think its pit
Also ive noticed most people seem to always think its their main char. Aside from actual fact this reasoning is tainted by favoritism.
+) i still think its pit
the Lexx
Smash Apprentice
I meant to post gimmicky, not useless. That what I get for trying to respond to two threads at once I guess.
Lucas has tons of weird stuff with PKT/PKF, Magnet Pulling, and Zap Jumping.
Sh1n0b1
Smash Journeyman
Pit doesn't strike as being an underplayed character. Otherwise alot of those things fit.
cj.Shark
Smash Ace
at a competetive level pit is underplayed. but at the same time he is very noob friendly Like ike. thereis a difference :/
darkspatan117
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2008
- Messages
- 364
maybe yoshi or pit
kupo15
Smash Hero
Ppl obviously ignored what I said many posts ago:
"It all depends on the target audience of the hint. If it is noob audience then your right. If it is experienced competitive (pro) smashers then that part of the hint fits Pit."
So with that in mind, that part of the hint is made to throw you off since we dont know who the target audience is. So just forget about that part of the hint.
Gindler
Smash Champion
True, but isn't yoshi underplayed in all parts of the smash community? well except for maybe the younger brother and girlfriend community, I think anyone who has one of those have seen them play as yoshi. Then again yoshi's recovery isn't as easily stopped as pits to do heavy armor and pit's UpB being limited, although the gliding really helps...hmmm this is a toss up atm.
Semmick
Smash Journeyman
some people do, im stumped on this one
Wildfire393
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- May 12, 2007
- Messages
- 335
Seriously. The hints given here can maybe be stretched to fit a couple of other characters, but they SCREAM Sheik.
And honestly, even though Pit may be underplayed on the competitive scene, at least compared to initially, I can't say that he's underrated. He was very much overrated for a while, and then people found out his real potential, so now he is just "rated". Especially as the hint say EXTREMELY underplayed and underrated. This would imply a character that has not been given enough tournament time to show through their true potential, which may be higher than many give them credit for. Yes, this same thing applies to characters like Yoshi and Mario, but Sheik has had some of the least tournament time of any character in the game. Especially when you take into account the "Potentially good strategies against DDD and Snake" part, which Sheik most definitely has.
popsofctown
Smash Champion
What wildfire said. +, Yoshi's recovery isn't that easy to stop. His double jump is weird, and allows him to recover with a rising airdodge. And he has that dj armor. He's really not as easy to gimp as some say.
Pivot grabbing is not a gimmick. Pivot grabbing is an awesome fundamental part of Yoshi's play. Sliding off the stage with vanish is a gimmick. Vanishing into the ledge in a loop (shino stall) is a gimmick. For the most part, Yoshi's stuff is less gimmicky than Sheik's.
Mario has been repped to the full by Boss. No one can argue that Boss has not shown all of what Mario can do while so-and-so character has so-and-so showing what he can do. I think that knocks mario out.
Really it could still be Yoshi, but i think it's Sheik.
Pivot grabbing is not a gimmick. Pivot grabbing is an awesome fundamental part of Yoshi's play. Sliding off the stage with vanish is a gimmick. Vanishing into the ledge in a loop (shino stall) is a gimmick. For the most part, Yoshi's stuff is less gimmicky than Sheik's.
Mario has been repped to the full by Boss. No one can argue that Boss has not shown all of what Mario can do while so-and-so character has so-and-so showing what he can do. I think that knocks mario out.
Really it could still be Yoshi, but i think it's Sheik.
x After Dawn x
Smash Master
Some of those things don't fit Sheik, though. She's underplayed, but not that underplayed, and her recovery is really good, not bad. You can tether an edge from a mile away and it's the fastest tether in the game, so it's really not edgehog'able.
ChronoPenguin
Smash Champion
I'd like to take a moment and ask when the Isaac description will be up.
Im getting sick of this kid in brawl, completely broken in every way.
He's the only character in the game with 10-0 match up's even MK is only a 8:5 to 2.5 for Isaac, really this kid is broken. Im glad the brawl community banned him from standard play but the descriptions should get word on how broken he is.
His dam earth cure special and Ragnarok are stupid, stupid over powered, the djinn powers are stupid too, and even though Final smashes aren't used in tournament play, that **** is beyond broken too, wtf is this crap getting hit by Judgement, Thor, Poseidon, Meteor and then Iris, Charon and Eclipse showing up.
If this kid ever gets unbanned I'll be pissed as all hell (still love you though Isaac!!!)
WTF is up with his recovery too, unlimited use of his ^ special? Thats bullcrap and he really has more like 15 specials than 4.
I hope the backroom takes note of how broken he is and trys to enforce a strict hard perma ban, theres still some places allowing him, spread the word.
Well enough about Mr.Broken for now, I think it's sheik.
Im getting sick of this kid in brawl, completely broken in every way.
He's the only character in the game with 10-0 match up's even MK is only a 8:5 to 2.5 for Isaac, really this kid is broken. Im glad the brawl community banned him from standard play but the descriptions should get word on how broken he is.
His dam earth cure special and Ragnarok are stupid, stupid over powered, the djinn powers are stupid too, and even though Final smashes aren't used in tournament play, that **** is beyond broken too, wtf is this crap getting hit by Judgement, Thor, Poseidon, Meteor and then Iris, Charon and Eclipse showing up.
If this kid ever gets unbanned I'll be pissed as all hell (still love you though Isaac!!!)
WTF is up with his recovery too, unlimited use of his ^ special? Thats bullcrap and he really has more like 15 specials than 4.
I hope the backroom takes note of how broken he is and trys to enforce a strict hard perma ban, theres still some places allowing him, spread the word.
Well enough about Mr.Broken for now, I think it's sheik.
Because Shiek has good recovery and really isn't that underplayed.
ChronoPenguin
Smash Champion
I thought her recovery was crap, I think the distance is poor, the wind effect is nice but Zelda's has better range >.>
It's not MK-level, but it's certainly not bad in any way. The fact she has a tether on top of her vanishing act for recovery can only be a good thing, and since both are quick she can easily keep people guessing at how she's going to get back to the stage.
Sir Bedevere
Smash Lord
Her recovery is really good, but I wouldn't say that isn't "stopped quite easily". Unlike most recoveries, her Up-B does no damage at the end of it, nor during it(i.e Whirling Fortress); only during the beginning, where she started the move. So, an opponent edgehogging will not even need to use invincibility frames to stop the Sheik from grabbing the ledge if she's far enough away. And, if she were to be right next to them (in which case the edgeguarder would need invincibility frames to avoid the explosion), she could simply recover right onto the stage, meaning she wouldn't need to have to hit the edgeguarder off in order to recover. As for her tether recovery, well, edgehogging makes that somewhat less viable, as long as the opponent is fast enough to get to the ledge to start edgeguarding. Any character with a good air game or a gimping projectile (i.e Pit) can keep Sheik far enough from the ledge that she'll eventually be unable to recover using her UpB, which has piss-poor range. Her recovery isn't bad at all, but anyone who knows how to exploit its weaknesses can gimp Sheik.
She's that underplayed. >_> She's E rank in tourney standings, below any of the characters that are serious contenders for this week's hint , save Yoshi (though, if you use Sheik/Zelda as her tourney placings, since 80% of the match is played with Sheik when using S/Z, she's D Rank and is also above Mario. That's still pretty dang low, though). And I honestly can't remember anyone I've ever played against-both online and offline-using Sheik. Really, the only well-known player that uses Sheik that I can name off of the top of my head is Ankoku. Well, him, and the one I found out quite recently...
Gimpyfish. Now, what follows after this is more of a crack theory than anything, but I feel it holds some water (maybe a few mililitres) and you can decide for yourself. Anyways...
Yes, Melee's Bowser king has taken a shine to Sheik, and if you don't believe, take a look at these threads:
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=172721
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=173122
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=176665
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=191961
The first two detail some info about Sheik (namely, her aerials and her Chain recovery) and the last two are video threads showcasing Gimpy's Sheik in both friendlies and a tournament. What does this show? It shows Gimpy knows a lot about Sheik, and has taken up time to main her. The Sheik board's is the only character specific forum Gimpy's posted consistently in in the past 2 months (well, he posted a few times in Ganon's and Boswer's, but since they've both already been done, it doesn't make a bit of difference guys. And yeah, I've got quite a lot of time on my hands). And regardless of any other posts in any other threads, Sheik is the only character I can find that Gimpy's played at all (aside from, Meta, but again, it doesn't make a bit of difference guys).
Now, earlier on in this section of hint guessing, Gimpy made not 1, but 3 posts:
These quotes show nothing of importance, just Gimpy being Gimpy. However, the simple fact that he posted here shows something...remember EmblemLord? After Marth was revealed, everyone was saying how obvious it should have been that it was Marth since he was making posts in there, being the wll-known Marth main he is (honestly, though, I'd never heard of him
). Well, I believe this is a similar case...Only it isn't a well-known mainer of the character who the hint is, but an unknown one. I seriously doubt anyone here knew Gimpy played Sheik except people who visit the Sheik boards, or maybe if they saw his vids on Youtube. That alone can all be coincidental...however... There is still one more quote.I don't really need to explain this, but...Gimpy posted info on the character's hint. He is also a mainer of Sheik. Put two and two together, and...
Of course, this "theory" of mine has its holes. The biggest of which is that its possible Gimpy is secretly maining a character behind our backs, and provided info on that character. He also could have known some random info about the hint's character and Panda decided to use it, though I doubt Panda would take info from a person who doesn't use the character regularly. Gimpy posting in here could also be a coincidence. But, whatever...take from it what you will. All I know it that Sheik seems to fit the hint best, to me, at least.
Betaz
Smash Ace
Olimar......
Aryman
Smash Master
I was thinking Olimar, but he's not really underplayed.
Popertop
Smash Champion
This.
I hadn't thought about the posters and all that, but this makes a whole bunch of sense.
x After Dawn x
Smash Master
Sir Bedevere, the problem with that is that Sheik's up B goes far. Any character can be edgehogged if they can't reach above the edge of a level, but the thing about Sheik's recovery is that you have a jump, a smaller jump from the beginning of it, and then the actual Vanish which can go in 16 different directions.
And just so you know, tourney standings don't mean anything to a tier list. They don't affect how good a character is or how high he is on the tier list, it just means what Sheik players tend to get in tournaments. It doesn't mean anything because the people using Sheik could have problems using her or could be noobs.
And just so you know, tourney standings don't mean anything to a tier list. They don't affect how good a character is or how high he is on the tier list, it just means what Sheik players tend to get in tournaments. It doesn't mean anything because the people using Sheik could have problems using her or could be noobs.
noobslayer
Smash Apprentice
Just glancing at #21.... Yoshi? Definitely seems to fit the description.
Digimonkey
Smash Journeyman
demodemo
Smash Ace
ATs? tricks? meeeeeeeeeh dacus is the only at that is really useful for her
but if it is sheik then i can't wait ^^
but if it is sheik then i can't wait ^^
deepseadiva
Bodybuilding Magical Girl
Olimar can KO pretty easily. And Sheik has like, one AT.
Yoshi, Pit, or Sonic.
Fire!
Smash Champion
I don't think Pit is underused. Same with Sonic.
Yoshi seems like the only one of the 3 that could take some patience to train with. It has to be Yoshi.
Sir Bedevere
Smash Lord
Not incredibly far, I find it to be quite limiting. Though, her second jump (the first jump you mentioned, just saying this so as not to confuse) helps put Sheik in range of the stage, you're right on that. But, a character with a good enough edgeguard game can push Sheik out of range from reaching the edge, and force her to grab the ledge, which can be easily edgehogged as long as they've been doing it right. And Sheik is a little exception when it comes to edgehogging. I've said this before, but her recovery UpB does no ending damage, so she has to land if her opponent is edgehogging, or she's dead. Whereas characters like Fox or Marth can hit their opponent off the ledge as long as they time their UpBs to when they lose their invincibility frames. Not really important, just thought I'd mention it.
To be honest, I don't really think of Sheik's recovery as "stopped quite easily". She's average, maybe a little more, maybe a little less, but its not really incredible. However, not everyone thinks that way, which is where problems can occur. Whoever made the hint (Gimpy, lolollppihifufku) puts their personal bias into the hint. So, if it's of there opinion that Sheik's recovery isn't that good, it will show in the hint. And the reason I say opinion (before I get attacked) is, quite simply, that Sheik is so underplayed and underplayed against that we can't really set in stone that "she is good against so and so" and the like (the like being things like this) until she's played more. We also have to realize that the Broomers aren't always 100% right on everything, especially when the game's only been out for 6 months. They're still human.
For example, on the last hint, I waved Lucario off as a possibility because I thought the lag on his KO attacks came before, not after (which is technically true, but Infzy showed that they might simply mean that the KO move can be punished even after its use). But, well...I don't need to say much else. Anyways, its because of this incident that I've decided that, in the case where a character fits totally except for one part, and that part is debated (other people in this thread have said her recovery isn't very gimpable, and people saying simply Sheik either agree with that notion, or overlooked that part) I will go with that character, unless another character fits better.
...They mean quite a bit, actually. o_O Tourney standings are something like... 30% of what is considered when making a tier list (don't quote me on that, I can't remember the exact number, but it's probably somewhere around there), it is definitely not meaningless. Look at the people at the top of the rankings list: Meta Knight, Snake, Game and Watch. Those are undoubtedly all top/high tier material (MK being god tier, obviously, lolololoklpjo;ihovivb). Characters that win more are characters that are higher in the tier list, quite simply. Characters that are played less are obviously not as represented, but eventually those characters will get discovered and move up on the list, so that, eventually, the rankings list will be near identical to the tier list of the future (ie Luigi. He is not effing E rank). Likewise, characters who are high on the rankings list who's weaknesses have yet to been exploited will eventually go down once people begin to take advantage of their weaknesses (ie DeDeDe).
...I'm also not quite sure what that has to do with any of my points. Underplayed means the character is not played much, and this applies to Sheik in both tourney and non-tourney settings. It doesn't have anything to do with tier lists.
EDIT: Also, HOLY **** I DIDN'T KNOW WE GOTZ DEM TEER LEESTS NAO. It proves my point, to a degree, anyway (and lol, I main Low Top, Low High and Low Middle characters. I am a http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoXLJWKyvxY).