And it's somehow not selfish to impose your opinions onto other people on what they can or cannot do, based on what you think is correct?
+ what scott said
-
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Sirias discussions: Currently (???)
- Thread starter xXArrowXx
- Start date
+ what scott said
Amaterasu
Smash Ace
-Quadraplegia and non-curative cancer are things I would consider(And are usually the things people talk about ending life for I think)
-Also end stage cystic fibrosis
-Ah, forgot CADESIL
-If you guys are interested in these issues truly, I would recommend watching 'The Sea Inside', I had to do research/analysis regarding similar situations, and it is interesting
-If I had end stage disease where I had no cognitive function, I would think about a 'not for recuss order', when I did start to fade so people wouldn't bring me back, in QLD they have 'advanced living directives' and i think 'living wills' in VIC for this kind of stuff
-Also end stage cystic fibrosis
-Ah, forgot CADESIL
-If you guys are interested in these issues truly, I would recommend watching 'The Sea Inside', I had to do research/analysis regarding similar situations, and it is interesting
-If I had end stage disease where I had no cognitive function, I would think about a 'not for recuss order', when I did start to fade so people wouldn't bring me back, in QLD they have 'advanced living directives' and i think 'living wills' in VIC for this kind of stuff
swordsaint
Smash Master
Alzi, it's called pain. It's really that simple. It doesn't matter what the disease or side effects of it are. If you're in unbearable pain or 24/7 life support, then to ANY able minded human, the concept of not wanting to undergo that anymore is a simple one.
@Andrew: Maybe it was too early for Godwin's law.
Though, it's the same view. One group hated jews/euthanasia so they banned/killed them.
xXArrowXx
Smash Champion
well the purpose is to back up your opinion with logic.
mm pretty sure depressed people in pain dont live for long alone.
the family would have mixed judgements depending on whether they are for or against euthanasia alzi =P
ide say they would be more happy to end the sick persons suffering. something like i cant stand to watch the suffering theyre enduring to just spend small amounts of time with me.
mm pretty sure depressed people in pain dont live for long alone.
the family would have mixed judgements depending on whether they are for or against euthanasia alzi =P
ide say they would be more happy to end the sick persons suffering. something like i cant stand to watch the suffering theyre enduring to just spend small amounts of time with me.
xXArrowXx
Smash Champion
yes murder is bad. i impose this opinion on all of you, else ill kill you. (talking about murder not euthinasia persaaay)
people still have choice. to break the law or not.
doesn't it look like i am forcing my opinion.. i hope not :X
people still have choice. to break the law or not.
doesn't it look like i am forcing my opinion.. i hope not :X
Aussierob123
Smash Champion
lol chris how are you gonna contract half of those diseases?
Imagine if you could contract beta thalessemia major from other people. **** would suck.
Imagine if you could contract beta thalessemia major from other people. **** would suck.
TakFR
Smash Lord
You shouldn't SD when you are high damage last stock, nor should you stop trying and let them hit you. Who knows you might be able to smash DI and survive when you get hit ^_^
undead_moose
Smash Lord
Parkinsons? I heard that disease is shakin now days
Pete278
Smash Lord
If you wanted to argue this particular topic from a purely logical standpoint, its fairly easy.
Given that:
- you are in pain and/or 24/7 life support with no chance of healing
- pain is a bad thing that you won't want to be in (sorry if we have any masochists reading)
- afterlives aren't possible to prove or disprove, therefore have no position in a logical argument
You can conclude that:
- the opinion of other people after your death is irrelevant since you're dead and can no longer care.
- Therefore death is the best option since you won't be in pain (and therefore not suffering) and nobody else you can care about will be hurt because of it.
Course, this is more of an emotional topic, with ideas revolving around a moral compass with minor amounts of logic embewed in, so you should probably change the argument to something more like 'Serious debates' or something.
Btw I'm for euthanasia for the above reasons.
Given that:
- you are in pain and/or 24/7 life support with no chance of healing
- pain is a bad thing that you won't want to be in (sorry if we have any masochists reading
)- afterlives aren't possible to prove or disprove, therefore have no position in a logical argument
You can conclude that:
- the opinion of other people after your death is irrelevant since you're dead and can no longer care.
- Therefore death is the best option since you won't be in pain (and therefore not suffering) and nobody else you can care about will be hurt because of it.
Course, this is more of an emotional topic, with ideas revolving around a moral compass with minor amounts of logic embewed in, so you should probably change the argument to something more like 'Serious debates' or something.
Btw I'm for euthanasia for the above reasons.
I'm talking about your opinion of euthanasia on people who want to be euthanised.
The concept of an afterlife doesn't need to be disproved, it needs to be proved. The overwhelming lack of evidence of an afterlife suggests that there is no afterlife.
xXArrowXx
Smash Champion
getting off topic but.. no. the proof of afterlife isn't needed. if there was this "proof" that you are looking for it would undo the continum of "life", and after life would just be another part of life. its something that you need faith for -.- not the most logcial thing. because there is no proof does not rule it out.
presume the best, until proven wrong. something like that is nice =P
presume the best, until proven wrong. something like that is nice =P
xXArrowXx
Smash Champion
getting off topic but.. no. the proof of afterlife isn't needed. if there was this "proof" that you are looking for it would undo the continum of "life", and after life would just be another part of life. its something that you need faith for -.- not the most logcial thing. because there is no proof does not rule it out.
presume the best, until proven wrong. something like that is nice =P
presume the best, until proven wrong. something like that is nice =P
C~Dog
Smash Champion
Faith and logic are mutually exclusive, since proof denies faith.
Aussierob123
Smash Champion
In almost everything, it's usually safest to presume the worst until proven otherwise.
That way you're prepared for the worst.
C~Dog
Smash Champion
Until the worst happens, and then it was even worse than you had prepared for.
xXArrowXx
Smash Champion
innocent til proven guilty. where you dont pressume the worse..
and u would rather believe there is a hell then there is a heaven. prepare for hell?? prepare for nothingness?
and u would rather believe there is a hell then there is a heaven. prepare for hell?? prepare for nothingness?
SummonerAU
Smash Lord
Acutally, I would argue the worse case scenario is that they actually commited the crime.
EDIT: that didn't come out right. Trying to say that preparing for the worst and assuming the worst are two different things. If we didn't prepare for the worst, we wouldn't bother with a trial.
EDIT2: asdfhasdhf
EDIT: that didn't come out right. Trying to say that preparing for the worst and assuming the worst are two different things. If we didn't prepare for the worst, we wouldn't bother with a trial.
EDIT2: asdfhasdhf
Nova
Banned via Warnings
<3 Summoner.
xXArrowXx
Smash Champion
2 sides of the coin. defendant and prosecutor =P whats bad for one.
Hobobloke
Atemon Game
If I say magical unicorns will give everyone fairy floss, it's safe to say you would assume that they won't do any such thing rather than just presuming they will because it's "nice" to think that.
Burden of proof is upon those trying to prove something not disprove.
Burden of proof is upon those trying to prove something not disprove.
unreon
Smash Ace
Digression;
The abortion topic before hadn't even begun to get into some tricky ethical questions. One not-so-uncommon scenario which is incredibly hard to deal with is the case where:
"The mother wants an abortion but the father does not. What do you do?"
Just one to think about.
________________________________
Digressing 2 about the afterlife;
This whole court analogy is in shambles. It's not simply wishing for the best or worst until being shown otherwise. This sets up a false dichotomy between what should be two ends of a spectrum, with the middle ground being plugged by presenting evidence. You provide a statement, such as:
"The defendant is accused of xyz"
And your automatic response to this statement should be 'I reject that claim; but I am open-minded and will give you the chance to provide evidence'.
- If their evidence is sufficient, you accept their claim.
- If their evidence is hazy, you await for more or show them how their interpretation is wrong by providing counter-evidence.
- If their evidence is wrong or lacking, you say their claim is not supported and hence appropriately dismissed.
This protects us from the infinite number of false claims, myths, superstitions, delusions, or terrible ideas that can and are made on a daily basis. If you are intellectually honest, you will apply this process to ground yourself to reality.
And this process is called science.
The abortion topic before hadn't even begun to get into some tricky ethical questions. One not-so-uncommon scenario which is incredibly hard to deal with is the case where:
"The mother wants an abortion but the father does not. What do you do?"
Just one to think about.
________________________________
Digressing 2 about the afterlife;
This whole court analogy is in shambles. It's not simply wishing for the best or worst until being shown otherwise. This sets up a false dichotomy between what should be two ends of a spectrum, with the middle ground being plugged by presenting evidence. You provide a statement, such as:
"The defendant is accused of xyz"
And your automatic response to this statement should be 'I reject that claim; but I am open-minded and will give you the chance to provide evidence'.
- If their evidence is sufficient, you accept their claim.
- If their evidence is hazy, you await for more or show them how their interpretation is wrong by providing counter-evidence.
- If their evidence is wrong or lacking, you say their claim is not supported and hence appropriately dismissed.
This protects us from the infinite number of false claims, myths, superstitions, delusions, or terrible ideas that can and are made on a daily basis. If you are intellectually honest, you will apply this process to ground yourself to reality.
And this process is called science.
xXArrowXx
Smash Champion
mother is the decision.. mother is the decision legally..
but if it up to me dad gets a say. but dads not always around so...
yeah court thing abit silly.
hope for the best, prepare the worst =P it is.
but if it up to me dad gets a say. but dads not always around so...
yeah court thing abit silly.
hope for the best, prepare the worst =P it is.
Trillest
Smash Ace
Tbh I don't think this should have been moved into the main Australia thread
xXArrowXx
Smash Champion
that was accident. =p
Euthanasia can be pretty much solved by the following.
Everyone has the instinctive will to live. Through evolution etc the most favourable characteristic is for everyone to want to live (inb4 emos, suicide etc)
Point being, just because that's what everyone wants, and what anti-euthanasians want for other people DOESN'T MAKE IT RIGHT.
If they are in pain they should be allowed to die.
ugh point is clearer in my mind than i can write, anyone clever want to clarify feel free.
Everyone has the instinctive will to live. Through evolution etc the most favourable characteristic is for everyone to want to live (inb4 emos, suicide etc)
Point being, just because that's what everyone wants, and what anti-euthanasians want for other people DOESN'T MAKE IT RIGHT.
If they are in pain they should be allowed to die.
ugh point is clearer in my mind than i can write, anyone clever want to clarify feel free.
xXArrowXx
Smash Champion
how would you regulate it?
how is it different from suicide?
how is it different from suicide?
Pete278
Smash Lord
There's also nothing wrong with suicide from a purely logical point of view.
Also, no, you don't need to disprove an afterlife, but it is impossible nonetheless. It'll be a long long time before humanity is able to prove the existance of anything outside the universe, let alone an afterlife outside the universe.
Also, no, you don't need to disprove an afterlife, but it is impossible nonetheless. It'll be a long long time before humanity is able to prove the existance of anything outside the universe, let alone an afterlife outside the universe.
unreon
Smash Ace
Anything that exists is considered within the realms of "the universe". There is nothing "outside" of it.
swordsaint
Smash Master
Have more faith imo. It's all well and good to believe everything science says, but to be so deep in to it as to believe there's nothing after death. Where's your hope? Do you really believe that it's nothing but black?
im not religious btw.
im not religious btw.
Well, not believing in an afterlife is not neccesarilly a view which indicates that youre "deep into" anything.
You can't argue the case for an afterlife, We dont know if there is an afterlife.
The idea of an afterlife is comforting to people and it makes the concept of death easier for them, but some people just aren't satisfied with wishy washy concepts like that. For me all that i know is this existence which means that all that is important is enjoying it and making the most of it.
Thats all i need. Hope doesnt figure into it
Nova
Banned via Warnings
Everything is reborn eventually, I honestly believe life is probably recycled as well.
Yeah so we're all just recycled waste.... Never been big on Science because I don't have the attention span but afaik (lol based on some docco) there are the chance of all these types of parallel Universes.
However total darkness and unawareness is very likely what awaits us.
NONE OF US CAN ESCAPE IT. LALALALA.
Also, at the suicide thing, I'll very likely suicide (quietly) when I want to die, and people have always O_O'd at me when I say this (lol except Psychiatrists, hahahahahahahaha......)... but I know how to go out without making it incredibly painful with certain drug combinations (well at least I hope so, lawl). It's really up to the person with suicide. And I don't want to live that too long.
I'll probably die in a storm before suicide becomes a playing card though. But I wouldn't view my own death as depressive anyway, and this is basically the stigma people associate with it. That and a lot of suicides are preventable, but mine is like fully planned out. I'll even frame someone for my murder, Y&R stylez.
So gay.
Unrelated: Religon can go choke, imo.
Yeah so we're all just recycled waste.... Never been big on Science because I don't have the attention span but afaik (lol based on some docco) there are the chance of all these types of parallel Universes.
However total darkness and unawareness is very likely what awaits us.
NONE OF US CAN ESCAPE IT. LALALALA.
Also, at the suicide thing, I'll very likely suicide (quietly) when I want to die, and people have always O_O'd at me when I say this (lol except Psychiatrists, hahahahahahahaha......)... but I know how to go out without making it incredibly painful with certain drug combinations (well at least I hope so, lawl). It's really up to the person with suicide. And I don't want to live that too long.
I'll probably die in a storm before suicide becomes a playing card though. But I wouldn't view my own death as depressive anyway, and this is basically the stigma people associate with it. That and a lot of suicides are preventable, but mine is like fully planned out. I'll even frame someone for my murder, Y&R stylez.
So gay.
Unrelated: Religon can go choke, imo.
Nixernator
Smash Ace
Afterlife? I have never seen anything that suggests to me that our consciousness goes anywhere once we die and until something does I refuse to believe in it.
When we die we are dead, its pretty simple.
When we die we are dead, its pretty simple.
swordsaint
Smash Master
Frame Alzi.
unreon
Smash Ace
I'll post a better reply after I study tonight, but Sieg paraphrased it right on the head.
Beautiful, inspiring words.
PS: Excellent video about Open-mindedness and critical thinking by Qualiasoup
"I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it." - Mark Twain.
Beautiful, inspiring words.
PS: Excellent video about Open-mindedness and critical thinking by Qualiasoup
xXArrowXx
Smash Champion
you should fear death... it stops me from dieing now also pain... also religious reasons.
if you dont fear death then u should embrace it getting people to murder you... seriously whats the point
reincarnation is abit silly with a growing population...
logically if you believe in afterlife there is no downfall but all the gain, you guys are missing out. you wont be right when you die, u will be dead =P
Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem..
if you dont fear death then u should embrace it getting people to murder you... seriously whats the point
reincarnation is abit silly with a growing population...
logically if you believe in afterlife there is no downfall but all the gain, you guys are missing out. you wont be right when you die, u will be dead =P
Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem..
C~Dog
Smash Champion
When we die our souls are trapped in our bodies like fireflies inside jars.
xXArrowXx
Smash Champion
soul isn't physical so dont know how the silly soul gets in a jar...
pretty sure the christian view is. u die. u judge yourself.. say this time you go to heaven. your "soul" goes in/ is already there to, other god dimension. where it is mashed together with other souls.. making a ball of "god" which isn't 3d in the sense or 2d. maybe 1d or 4d @_@ whocares.. you feel happy, serving god... anything else is nil.
hell is different, you probably form a blob but that doesn't matter since u are stuck in your own personal hell, lonely and in pain for eternity.
thats what i get from the christian afterlife.. pretty sure someone is gonna agrue.... ide like to know what i should be believing in.. XD
suicide has never caused happnyness...
pretty sure the christian view is. u die. u judge yourself.. say this time you go to heaven. your "soul" goes in/ is already there to, other god dimension. where it is mashed together with other souls.. making a ball of "god" which isn't 3d in the sense or 2d. maybe 1d or 4d @_@ whocares.. you feel happy, serving god... anything else is nil.
hell is different, you probably form a blob but that doesn't matter since u are stuck in your own personal hell, lonely and in pain for eternity.
thats what i get from the christian afterlife.. pretty sure someone is gonna agrue.... ide like to know what i should be believing in.. XD
suicide has never caused happnyness...