SINGLES Lucario Match-Ups and Directory! Mario will brb saving a princess

[phi1ny3]

Yup, you got it.
Timbers, let's do next matchup plz.

 

[:mad:]

Timbers is too lazy, let's wait a week and chow down on some Fried Chicken.

But I'm assuming that next MU's gonna be Peach...

 

[Aurasmash14]

Yum.. KFC... *munching * *muffled voice* but shouldnt we at least remind timbuhz we made a decision?

 

[hough123]

Yum.. KFC... *munching * *muffled voice* but shouldnt we at least remind timbuhz we made a decision?

Ewwwww, fried chicken? Try grilled chicken. It won't make you gain weight like a sumo wrestler =\
(+1\coughtimberswevemadeadecisionandyouineedtowakeupcough)

 

[Cap'n Lucario]

I find you will want to Murder her Recovery with a aura sphere,forceing her to fast fall out or get smacked. In the air you are going to try to be above her to the side slightly to avoid her Fair and use yours . If you want to change from ground to air (ect) use an aura sphere that's at least half charged.Counter Turnips and air catch bom boms

 

[hough123]

Lucario vs. Peach:

First off, Peaches are taught that Lucarios will roll a LOT. Though this is dated information, as we all know that rolling should be used sparingly. This will make them prepare to punish your roll, (commonly with a Usmash), which you can punish easily by just not rolling. Peaches will attempt to kill you early, as to avoid our aura. The only problem being that Peach can't kill well. They're best kill moves are Usmash and Fair, but Dair outdoes Usmash, so you only need to worry about Fair killing you. This is where our AS comes into play. Peaches HATE a campy Lucario. This shifts the match up slightly to out favor. Even with this, the match up is close to even.

I'll go with 55:45.

As for stages:

(From Peach's stage thread.)
Lucario
Counterpick: Green Greens, Rainbow Cruise
Ban: Luigi's Mansion, Frigate Orpheon, Pictochat, Yoshi's Island, Final Destination

 

[Timbers]

chillax guys...i was gone for a few days..

 

[Airgemini]

Peach's ability to rack up damage quickly but having trouble landing a KO move really hurts her in this match up.

 

[mountain_tiger]

As a Peach main, I would say that if the Lucario player knows how Peach works, then I agree on 55:45 Lucario's favour. For a start, Aura Spheres really muck up our approach and force us to float higher, and that means that our floated Dairs won't reach you, making campy Lucarios much harder to beat. You lot probably know not to roll too much, and against Peach that's especially important, since if she predicts where you go, she'll hit you with USmash, which is pretty much the one move Peach has that kills reliably below 100%. However, apart from the occasional USmash, Peach really can't kill very well. Once you get to about 120% or so, then Lucario can expect a Fair, which the Peach player will likely keep fresh, because they want to try and kill Lucario early so that his aura advantage doesn't last too long. However, be aware that around 140% or so, she may mix in Nair and Bair to throw you off guard. Still, Lucario can survive agaisnt her fairly long, which is always a good thing for him. However, once she kills Lucario once, she can get some momentum going and make it much easier for herself. In other words, getting the first kill is tough, but if she can get that first kill, it becomes easier for her.

Also, it's worth noting that Lucario's Dair will outdo our USmash, but NOT our UTilt, but since UTilt doesn't really kill uintil around 150%, in a sense that's almost better for you in a way. And some of Peach's attacks are very fast (e.g. Nair and neutral A both come out on frame 2), which can make it easier for her to disrupt your smash attacks, though she can't really punish them if they whiff or hit her shield. So yeah, all in all, both sides have advantages over each other, but Lucario's aura mixed with Peach's lack of kill power means that it's slightly in your favour, hence 55:45 for Lucario.

 

[Cap'n Lucario]

Lucario has the range advantage,Better KOs,Is heavier,has AS,a slight chain grab(slde-B but I'm not to sure for peach),Combos on brawl,Aura Powa(coupled with peachs low KO power but high Damage)And a Killer Air game in all directions,I think Lucario has an advantage 55-45

 

[Cap'n Lucario]

I could always be wrong though.

 

[:mad:]

Lucario has the range advantage,

In what regards? Bair and Fsmash, Peach's Fair outranges everything you have, with the exception of Fsmash.

Better KOs,

Not true in the least. Peach can kill with Fair, Nair, Usmash, Lucario can kill with... Fsmash? Dair? 10SDI's.

Is heavier,

Weight
Lucario 1.010

...

Peach 0.960

Only makes it harder to SDI her Dair if you aren't already good at it.

has AS,

Aurasphere. PS it? Peach has turnips, beamswords, Mr. Saturns, and bob-ombs.

a slight chain grab(slde-B but I'm not to sure for peach),

Escapable by Peach, try it, and you'll get punished.

Combos on brawl,

COMBOES?!11/

Aura Powa

Fried Chicken.

(coupled with peachs low KO power but high Damage)

Peach starts out at 0%, like everyone.

And a Killer Air game in all directions,I think Lucario has an advantage 55-45

The way you make it out to be, it sounds like a 65:35.

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

In what regards? Bair and Fsmash, Peach's Fair outranges everything you have, with the exception of Fsmash.

Lucci has this thing called a bair, I hear. It's pretty cool. You should check it out.

Not true in the least. Peach can kill with Fair, Nair, Usmash, Lucario can kill with... Fsmash? Dair? 10SDI's.

I don't even know what to say to this.

 

[Timbers]

Cap'n and Straked are both incredibly wrong lol.

 

[Aurasmash14]

let Cap'n go he's still new. as for straked... :/ ? well for one the way he mentioned peach's proj sounded like she could pull all of em out whenever she wished (with the exception of turnips. and Turnips alone dont win a match)

 

[:mad:]

Trying to stir up some conversation.

And yeah, in retrospect, some of that stuff I said was pretty funny. And I did mention Bair.

 

[Browny]

I don't even know what to say to this.

Texas (S)DI?

why do people still get hit by dair and ftilts double hit. we all suck at this game

 

[Browny]

Peaches airdodge is notorious for having only 16 invulnerable frames (IIRC) and 1-4, 19-49 are vulnerable. if thats not it, either way its extremely low. Omfg i was right lol!

A full charge aura sphere at any moderate or higher % should be unavoidable. when i play against other characters i often hit them out of airdodge vulnerability frames with it. Peach should be twice as easy to do it to, given the massive vulnerable lag period

---

oh **** lol i forgot i posted here only a few mins ago >_<

 

[mountain_tiger]

Peaches airdodge is notorious for having only 16 invulnerable frames (IIRC) and 1-4, 19-49 are vulnerable. if thats not it, either way its extremely low. Omfg i was right lol!

A full charge aura sphere at any moderate or higher % should be unavoidable. when i play against other characters i often hit them out of airdodge vulnerability frames with it. Peach should be twice as easy to do it to, given the massive vulnerable lag period

As a Peach main, I can confirm that, unfortunately, this is all correct.

In what regards? Bair and Fsmash, Peach's Fair outranges everything you have, with the exception of Fsmash.

Actually, most of Lucario's moves outrange ours. The range on our Fair isn't that great.

Not true in the least. Peach can kill with Fair, Nair, Usmash, Lucario can kill with... Fsmash? Dair? 10SDI's.

Nair only kills at like 150% (even higher with good DI). Fair only kills at 120% (again, higher with good DI), USmash has to be sweetspotted and her FSmash is unpredictable.

Lucario can kill with all of his smashes, Dair and Bair. And a fully charged Aura Sphere too.

Weight
Lucario 1.010

...

Peach 0.960

Only makes it harder to SDI her Dair if you aren't already good at it.

That's true. Extra weight is a double-edged sword, but overall I would say that the extra survivability he gets makes up for it.

Aurasphere. PS it? Peach has turnips, beamswords, Mr. Saturns, and bob-ombs.

You do realise that the chances of getting those other three items from turnips are like 1 in 300, right?

Escapable by Peach, try it, and you'll get punished.

This is true.

COMBOES?!11/

Lucario can't really combo Peach that well. He can sort of do it, but the combos he has do minimal damage overall.

Peach starts out at 0%, like everyone.

He means that Peach can rack up damage well but doesn't kill so well.

 

[iRJi]

Yay, another matchup to do =D. Ill writes something up later.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

We can probably get Rick in here. Don't count on Praxis.

Oh I feel so special now <3

Unfortunetly I don't really play any Lucario's so I know very little about this match up. If you're lacking info I would definitly give Praxis a shout since he fights Lucario all the time. I'll try give some generic useful info

Peach will be mainly using Fair Dair and Turnips. DI out of Dair (DI up) and if you do get hit with Fair, DI up (diagonally up will probably let you live longer). Watch out for Glide Tossing and the very currently uncommon Turnip slide pull and be aware of defensive Turnip use such as OoS Turnips

If Peach has spaced her Floating Dairs correctly then F Smash won't hit her. Aura sphere's will stop Floating approaches although Peach shouldn't really be approaching with her Float anyway. Her airdodge is the worst in the game so take advantage of that. I don't know how Aura works for Lucario but I can tell you that Peach can cancel out weak Aura Spheres (e.g. Lucario at 0%) with her Nair but she can't against stronger ones (e.g. Lucario at 999%). Again, I don't know the limit but as Lucario's Aura gets stronger, so does the force of the Nair Peach is using. So a strong Nair will stop Lucario's fully charged Aura Sphere when he's at 100% but a weak Nair won't

She's got two other options. Obviously airdodge but she's also got Toad if she isn't willing to take that risk. Speaking of Toad, watch out she doesn't use it to stop any obvious and predictable attack patterns. If she gets predictable with Toad then it's your chance for some serious damage or a free grab

Peach's Fair just outranges Lucario's but his outspeeds hers. I think her Bair and his Fair have similar range. Her Fair and his Bair have similar range aswell

Another factor in this match up is that Peach's killing power isn't very good, especially if she's using her Fair for damage racking or if the other player knows how to DI and momentum cancel well. I know Lucario gets stronger as he takes more damage but I don't know how much that would affect this match up. Ask an expert of something

Sorry, like I said I don't much about Lucario. Just watch out for Fair, Dair, Turnips, don't make obvious aerial approaches or her Up/F Tilt will get you...and that's all I can think of right now

 

[Timbers]

Lucario can kill with all of his smashes, Dair and Bair. And a fully charged Aura Sphere too.

Lucario killing with anything not named Aurasphere, fsmash, dair, or uair...is pretty rare.

Peach's fair is powerful but, you'll end up staling it a lot as it's the only move Peach really has that is safe in range and on block. It does outrange a lot of Luc's moveset, barring aurasphere (obviously), fsmash, and bair. The last two are somewhat irrelevant as fsmash can be floated over easily and bair isn't really a good move to combat against other characters..it's more of an airdodge trap, hitting with the latter hit.

 

[Kitamerby]

as we all know that rolling should be used sparingly. :

Bull****.


That is all I wish to say.


Oh, and don't fair peach. She'll just back up and fair you back.

 

[hough123]

Bull****.


That is all I wish to say.


Oh, and don't fair peach. She'll just back up and fair you back.

Peaches save thier fair for the kill, so fair should be safe early on.
Like I said, rolling SHOULD be used sparingly, but we usually don't. While Lucario's roll is win, getting killed out of it is not.

 

[Timbers]

Peaches save thier fair for the kill, so fair should be safe early on.
Like I said, rolling SHOULD be used sparingly, but we usually don't. While Lucario's roll is win, getting killed out of it is not.

what sucks for Peach is she really can't save the fair for the kill in this matchup.

 

[hough123]

what sucks for Peach is she really can't save the fair for the kill in this matchup.

Then make sure to quote yourself in the analysis.

 

[iRJi]

what sucks for Peach is she really can't save the fair for the kill in this matchup.

Really, she doesn't tend to save it in any of her matchups. She gets so many little hits that it gets unstale. She will be using it a lot, so don't think she wont.

 

[Timbers]

Really, she doesn't tend to save it in any of her matchups. She gets so many little hits that it gets unstale. She will be using it a lot, so don't think she wont.

I'll take your word for it lol, I haven't played Brawl Peach with anyone besides Lucario and Snake, and both of them tend to shut down a lot of her options so I was like whatevs lol, It's usually bair and dair that I see otherwise haha

 

[TKD]

Is Lucario - MK seriously 40/60?

I always thought it's 30/70...**continues to check peach info**

 

[iRJi]

Is Lucario - MK seriously 40/60?

I always thought it's 30/70...**continues to check peach info**

Its 40:60. The matchup isn't as bad as people may think. Come to think about it, out of our bad matchups hes at least top 3 to the easiest.

 

[phi1ny3]

Is Lucario - MK seriously 40/60?

I always thought it's 30/70...**continues to check peach info**

I feel a lot of MKs really haven't played the match up enough to know that there are enough tools for lucario to hold his own to make it 60:40. I can see maybe 65:35, but 70:30 is like a **** low-tier matchup, like ganon **** matchup.
Also, on the peach matchup (praxis, this is a bat signal for you) I want to rematch you, 3-stock @ Jan. = no fair! T.T

Bair, AS, jab, and utilt (more or less) are the moves for this matchup imo. Bair works very similar to Peaches, but essentially yours if used correctly is safer with a longer range and lingering hitbox (and maybe speed, I'd have to check), AS combats with turnips in camping prowess, and can be used as a crude control device if the peach happens to show a weak pattern, jab is naturally pretty good, decent speed, can fan turnips, and has a pretty large range for a jab (I've muddled through with it, and it's pretty deceptive), and utilt is gonna be a good staple oos/anti air response. Uair is good if you can land it for a kill, but don't rely on it because of her dair's ability is stronger overall than uair. This is a pretty even matchup, and I think that the previous notion of 50:50 is not as exact as I think it could be.
Also, fair gets range mainly due to the float momentum, actual range is meh.
I'm going to say 55:45, possibly 50:50.

 

[iRJi]

Ok, since I am free now, I will write up the matchup. For this one though, we might have to test out a few things.

Peach matchup:

Well, shes cute? but looks are always deceiving. Anyway, Peach's Fair is a pretty good attack in this matchup, esp. with good range to actually rush her down. Her main attack will he Dair, and turnips. The turnips are mainly just for an obstacle, so just avoid them. While they don't hurt as much, it leads to setups, mainly if she glide tosses and hits you with it, while that can lead to a grab if it connects. From 0 she has a few combos that work on a few characters that will take them to about 35-45%. Combos are:

Dair>Falling Nair>Rising Uair
Dair>Falling Nair> Utilt
Dair>Uair

Each combo varries on the character, but on most characters Dair to Nair will be the main set 0 to w/e combo.

Peach from melee got nurfed pretty hard, the one noticeable is her kill power, she not lacks a lot of it, and all of her kill moves need to be sweet-spotted in order to kill. Her kill moves are Fair, Nair, Bair, Usmash, Utilt, and Fsmash. I will go over how to DI each attack, and give some more info on them right... Now:

Fair: This is her most used attack from her killing set. You need to DI this move into the corner of the screen in order to live at max %. She will stale this move throughout the matchup, so its not as scary as it thinks. Just remember to DI it.

Bair: This move is actually pretty scary. She doesn't use this as much for approaches, or even followups, so this move will be relatively fresh if you get hit by it. The DI is the same as Fair. DI into the corner of the screen for max %.

Usmash: This is her strongest killing move, and it will kill early. The bad part about this move (But good for us) is that it is a hard move to land, and it is kind of perdictable. Usmash has 3 different hit boxes. She has a side hit box that doesn't kill at all, and is weak. her next hit hit box are in the corners of her hand while she is spinning, also a weak spot. Her last hit box is around her head, which will kill you. Basiclly she really needs to touch you in order to kill u with this move. But if she does touch you, and you are over 100-ish% don't expect to live. If you have god-DI however, you can survive by DI to the far right or far left as much as possible.

Utilt: Pretty much the same as Usmash, except with less killing power and easier to land. DI is the same also. Far left and far right as much as possible.

Fsmash: This move requires a fast eye to DI, as each of the different items carry a different trajectory of which u get hit.

Frying pan: Hits you up

(I might have these last 2 backwards, so someone test this)
tennis racket: Hits Straight
Golf Club: Hits diagonal

Out of these 3, the tennis racket and the frying pan you will want to aim to the corner of the screen. The Golf Club however (Or which ever sends u diagonal), you will want to aim for the roof, or influence its trajectory and continue to aim for the corner, since its the farthest point from dying.

Peach's edge hogging game is not bad, and she can chase you out of she wants to. Most Peach's prefer to stay near the ledge and guard it with turnips, while also using her supreme ability to refresh the ledge with Invincibility frames. (If you have not seen it, go into training and fall from the ledge, then jump back to the ledge. You will be surprised)

Helpful tips: Normally I charge AS in matches, but for this match I prefer just to BAS her, as it shuts down her floating game kind of bad. For this match I would actually keep a mid range distance, not to far so she can't pressure you with her turnips, but not to close so she can combo the piss out of you either. Just far enough so she can't float in, and dodge the BAS and punish you for it. But, If you want to charge an AS, feel free to do so. After all, if u space right and she is floating, she has to dodge and that's never a bad thing.

If peach is going towards you, you can space Bair and be safe. Fairing her constantly is not a good idea, as well as following up anything you might think is not legit. Shes pretty light, so she bounces out easily from potential combos.

Peach is light, and she does die pretty easily from out hits. If you think you can land an Uair, do so. It kills her pretty early, even if we are at low %.

Peach is fast, if you need to punish, always consider Dair as your first option. It doesn't take much to kill her, so just rack up damage every which way you can.

As for a number I am not to sure. I want to say 60:40 in Lucario's favor,but some might consider it 55:45. Hell, It can even be a 50:50 matchup, but of course that will be up to you, right?

 

[Praxis]

Either 60:40 or 55:45. I lean towards 55:45 but I'm probably clouded as I know this matchup re-e-eaaallly well.

Biggest problem is if your moves get stale. Best aspect is that she's got a really good gimp game, especially against Lucario.

Fsmash is less effective than usual. You can just space and float over it to a fair or dair- personally, I like to just run into it with a powershield and then dash grab OOS (Lucario's always look shocked when I do this xD ). Ftilt shuts down any floated approaches and utilt punishes consecutive dairs on shield, so Peach shouldn't be forcing approaches with dairs. Lucario cannot punish a properly spaced fair on shield to jab, but he CAN ftilt her as she comes in for the fair.

Basically, Lucario should focus on camping the Peach this whole match. This will force Peach to stale her fair in desperation to land hits. But if the Peach approaches slowly and powershields everything, she has her own tools to punish everything. I find jab to be very, very effective. And Peach can nair in between consecutive fair hits.

From the characters' aspects, this matchup is really even. Until you factor the aura. Fact is that Peach has a hard time killing. Good DI and reading will let Lucario live to 150-180% every stick, which makes him really powerful, and overall, swings this into his favor.


And hello again, phi1ny3. Don't make me three stock you again. <3<3

 

[phi1ny3]

Oh you won't. Too bad next G.O. isn't this summer.

 

[Aurasmash14]

And hello again, phi1ny3. Don't make me three stock you again. <3<3

I wanna see that match! did you record it?

 

[mountain_tiger]

Really, she doesn't tend to save it in any of her matchups. She gets so many little hits that it gets unstale. She will be using it a lot, so don't think she wont.

It's true. The majority of Peach pros use Fair a lot, and why shouldn't they? It has pretty good range, it autocancels well, is more or less unpunishable when shielded if done right, and it does 16% damage when fresh. There's more to it than just killing.

Maybe I overrated Lucario's kill power, but he definitely has more than Peach does, easily. And since this is Lucario we're talking about, her lack of killing power is an even bigger flaw here.

 

[phi1ny3]

I wanna see that match! did you record it?

Oh no, trust me, you would not want to see that. It was the result of about a month or two without me being able to use/practice with a Wii, if the other lucarios were around, they could attest that I was pretty much stranded in terms of practice, and I was so rusty lol.
Lucario has some meh kill potential, but I do agree that it sometimes is eclipsed by some lucarios themselves who don't always know the ins and outs of using them, and it does seem to grow quite well when against other characters with less than ideal kill potential.

 

[Praxis]

Not to mention the fact that I practice with a Lucario like twice a week and will powershield Fsmash to grab consistently xD

TBH, Lucario is a matchup Peach CAN save fair in. I use it as a defensive move and abuse it against Marth and MK. Lucario, it's not as necessary to use to survive.

I find myself killing with nair and bair and uair more often though LOL

 

[phi1ny3]

^That too, but I learned how to solve the PS problem (not that fsmash should be relied on much).
Nair is a nasty little move, I practically learn to string to death the other players in my area and then go vs. peach, then BOOM! "Lolwut? That little spin stopped me!?!"

 

[Aurasmash14]

Not to mention the fact that I practice with a Lucario like twice a week and will powershield Fsmash to grab consistently xD

TBH, Lucario is a matchup Peach CAN save fair in. I use it as a defensive move and abuse it against Marth and MK. Lucario, it's not as necessary to use to survive.

I find myself killing with nair and bair and uair more often though LOL

Does Xefnir have an account in the SWF? Dude should come join us.