brinboy789
Smash Champion
your sentence contradicted itself
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Should Metaknight Be Banned? The Poll (LISTEN TO THE SBR PODCAST!)
- Thread starter GofG
- Start date
- Status
You just earned yourself a gold star.
Did you know, if on the first page you click on the numbers next to the vote bars (ie the 900 vs. 700 votecount) you can see who voted for what.
Don't vote! It's a trap. (Like the elections *winkwink*)
Don't vote! It's a trap. (Like the elections *winkwink*)
brinboy789
Smash Champion
why thank you. im honored
KosukeKGA
Smash Champion
Because people are finally understanding the truth of things.
Meta Knight isn't some unstoppable force or God-like character. >_>
Meta Knight isn't some unstoppable force or God-like character. >_>
Those in favor of a ban have maintained a steady 200+ vote lead. Just the more votes that happen, the smaller the ratio gets.
metalmonstar
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2008
- Messages
- 1,081
I haven't noticed that. Pro ban seems to hover around 57 percent for the longest time it seems. I guess cause there aren't anymore pro ban supporters anymore. I highly doubt though that the anti ban will ever catch up though.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
i seriously did not know that there was 1666 (# of voters at time of writing) people on swf
Fatmanonice
Banned via Warnings
Because Smash Boards is genuinelly split on this issue, that's why.
There are 101,473 registered users. Most are inactive, of course.
http://www.smashboards.com/memberlist.php (check the bottom)
Very few people have said he is.
That's usually a strawman brought up by someone saying he shouldn't be banned.
Just so this does not get blown out of proportion I just clicked real quick cause I wanted to see what the current results/communities take was on this.
The reality is I do not think MK is broken, whether or not banning him would be a good thing for competitive brawl scene/community I am on the fence about. However, with certainty I can say that is not the type of thing you do rashly.
So I have edited the poll to remove one yes vote in it to accurately reflect my current non-vote.
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2008
- Messages
- 6,860
This doesn't explain why though.
I'd bet that it's because more of the undecided voters are beginning to vote "no" because they're associating "can't make up their mind" with "it's too early to tell"- an argument that MK shouldn't be banned.
This might be supporting evidence that undecided voters will tend to lean towards not banning him in the future, rather than supporting a ban. Maybe?
Not that it matters. It's just a thought...
ProBrawler
Smash Lord
By the way, you can view the results without voting I believe. =)
ftl
Smash Journeyman
BTW, you can do that without voting, by clicking 'see poll results'. It's what I've been doing.
ftl
Smash Journeyman
Could be Inui being persuasive. Essentially, his argument is "we have a good region and MK doesn't dominate here" - I have no idea whether either is true, but it's certainly persuasive and repeated a lot.
Could be undecideds converting their "maybe"s to "not yet"s to "no".
Could be that the most avid pro-ban people voted early, and everyone else is splitting 50-50.
Could be a lot of things.
You can check poll results before voting via the "View poll results" link. Should be at the bottom right side of the poll choices.
[Edit] I'm too slow!
BanjoKazooiePro
Smash Champion
Yeah, whenever someone plays MK I automatically pick him as well and I think most people do. It's ridiculous trying to fight him with characters even if you have mastered your character. I can't touch MK's with my normal strategy, and it's hopeless to try. Ditto matches are all you can do.
Inui
Banned via Warnings
Grab release --> boost smash destroys Meta Knight. Meta Knight's worst match is Sheik on FD by quite a bit. It kills him at ~85% and does massive damage every time. You also apparently don't know the stuff RyokoYaksa can do with Sheik. I watched him beat Mew2King's Meta Knight before and the matches were always close. He also beat dmbrandon in tourny.
Ganondorf = arguably the worst character, and the absolute worst character imo.
His options against tornado:
-Forward smash always beats it and kills MK at very low damage.
-Down air from the top, which does 23%.
-Dash attack any part of the tornado from the ground and it wins, killing MK at under 100%. This is really easy to do.
-Up smash it from below, which kills MK at under 100%.
-Down B from above, which kills MK at under 100% if it doesn't spike downwards.
-Forward air beats it from the side, but I don't think it wins from the very top side because of range, but it might. I haven't tested it.
That's because you're not that good and some people suck at MK dittos.
I have a friend at school who's in my crew and on Smashboards as MasterDaveNo1. He often does okay in MK dittos against me(one stock high percent is his best, and getting twostocked is his worst), but I destroy his "main" of Toon Link with multiple characters(I recently SD'd at 0% with Captain Falcon and won anyways). When I pick Snake against his MK, he usually gets wrecked even when he plays patiently. He knows my style of play entirely and should be able to win sometimes if a patient MK can beat Snake, but he can't win. He does better in the MK dittos.
Atomsk tried to Plank me(camping the ledge massively) with MK in tourny, but my Snake destroyed him in both matches we did of MK vs Snake. Atomsk is the most patient player I ever faced, and he still got wrecked by a camping Snake.
If Snake camps properly, he doesn't take the risks required to make mistakes that can get you gimped. If you don't get gimped, living to 150%-200% isn't uncommon. MK doesn't have this luxury. He can die at 0% from an improperly DI'd f-smash. He dies from the center of FD at 75% with good DI if Snake connects his d-air by punishing a predicted tech or roll. That's less than half of what Snake usually lives to if he doesn't take risks that can get him gimped.
Eggz
Smash Hero
i hope a joke match isnt being used as an argument tool in this debate lol
magikguy
Smash Lord
man that match failed lol
clowsui
Smash Legend
FD DACUS = win
So hard to get consistently though :/ Clawing is difficult, but I guess it just requires practice in order to get it consistently.
PS1 should technically be a pretty good stage vs. MK then, given that there's a small amount of platforms, the transformations save you from shuttle loop or DSmash ****, and on the regular transformation GR DACUS is very easy if you're in the middle...though chances are an MK is going to be near the edge >_>;
So hard to get consistently though :/ Clawing is difficult, but I guess it just requires practice in order to get it consistently.
PS1 should technically be a pretty good stage vs. MK then, given that there's a small amount of platforms, the transformations save you from shuttle loop or DSmash ****, and on the regular transformation GR DACUS is very easy if you're in the middle...though chances are an MK is going to be near the edge >_>;
Eggz
Smash Hero
you have no idea how much of a joke that match was. at one point i got up while still pressing b to grab my soda
thats not at all how anyone good ever plays MK
lol
∫unk
Smash Master
Nice political response.
Next time grow some balls and man up to a useful opinion... surely someone as intelligent as yourself has one.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
@ inui, the tornado problem stems from the fact of how freeform its movement is, and how fast it is.
every character realistically has 5+ moves that hit through a tornado, but come on, how practicle is it to say that Mk is going to run head first into a ganon forward smash, or a sonic down smash, or an air falcon kick. the reality is that its not feasible for most characters to defend against that move on a consistent basis
and about sheik/MK
no...
if one move could determine a matchup like that, the yoshi/MK match would be 70-30 yoshi, because its much easier to get a grab as yoshi than sheik.
also, planking doesnt really work on snake, down tilt spam, however, does.
MK has a move that can beat everyother character, its just that its a different move for every character.
for some its down smash.
for some its shuttle loop
for some its tornado
for some its f-air
for some its d-air
for some its his tilts
for some its more than one of the above, and thats when you have a really bad match with MK.
point is, lack of matchup knowledge counters everybody....
just because somebody is really good at one Mk strat doesnt mean hell always win, thats why Mk is broken, he has an answer (and a rediculously good one at that) to every situation he could possibly be put in by any character. if the guy behind the controller cant find that one move or use it effectively, that doesnt mean that theres fault with the character.
every character realistically has 5+ moves that hit through a tornado, but come on, how practicle is it to say that Mk is going to run head first into a ganon forward smash, or a sonic down smash, or an air falcon kick. the reality is that its not feasible for most characters to defend against that move on a consistent basis
and about sheik/MK
no...
if one move could determine a matchup like that, the yoshi/MK match would be 70-30 yoshi, because its much easier to get a grab as yoshi than sheik.
also, planking doesnt really work on snake, down tilt spam, however, does.
MK has a move that can beat everyother character, its just that its a different move for every character.
for some its down smash.
for some its shuttle loop
for some its tornado
for some its f-air
for some its d-air
for some its his tilts
for some its more than one of the above, and thats when you have a really bad match with MK.
point is, lack of matchup knowledge counters everybody....
just because somebody is really good at one Mk strat doesnt mean hell always win, thats why Mk is broken, he has an answer (and a rediculously good one at that) to every situation he could possibly be put in by any character. if the guy behind the controller cant find that one move or use it effectively, that doesnt mean that theres fault with the character.
Inui
Banned via Warnings
Even Ganondorf has a LOT of different options to defend against the move. It's not that easy to do, and MK's tornado is indeed good, but if even the worst character can fight it, the good ones can beat it no problem.
MK's d-tilt isn't broken against Snake. Even if he spaces it perfectly, he WILL get blown up by a grenade if Snake drops one. It's that simple. Shadow SPAMS the crap out of that move against me and I win anyways.
MK's d-tilt isn't broken against Snake. Even if he spaces it perfectly, he WILL get blown up by a grenade if Snake drops one. It's that simple. Shadow SPAMS the crap out of that move against me and I win anyways.
Ganondorf being at the bottom of the tier list doesn't take away from the fact that he's most powerful and has above average priority.
Fact is though, for practically all his options he has to counter the tornado, he would need to see it coming to react accordingly (as in, predicting), meaning that if MK uses it from a certain range (being closer than farther away) Ganon would have no answer fast enough to counter it because of windup.
Fact is though, for practically all his options he has to counter the tornado, he would need to see it coming to react accordingly (as in, predicting), meaning that if MK uses it from a certain range (being closer than farther away) Ganon would have no answer fast enough to counter it because of windup.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
bento's comment also applys to a bunch of different characters...
obviously sonic is the first one that comes to my mind
obviously sonic is the first one that comes to my mind
Inui
Banned via Warnings
-Guess right.
-Even at close range, he can shield it or jump back f-air.
This requires you to be a better player than your opponent, so it's useless advice as you should assume the players are of equal skill.
Mew2King
King of the Mews
whenever teh_spamerer's sheik grabs me he just grab releases me into boost up smash.
I take 29% per grab, and i heard it kills at like 85 or something similar if you get the single tipper hit (according to spam, the 29% hit is easy to do). That's pretty ridiculous. Yes I would imagine it being hard... but he manages to do it quite consistently, he said 90% of the time he gets it, and he only practiced it once.
oovideogamegodoo (1:30:28 AM): u dont practice sheiks boost up smash much do you?
RedAxelRanger (1:30:39 AM): nah, i just practiced it once
RedAxelRanger (1:30:40 AM): to learn it
RedAxelRanger (1:30:45 AM): but no
RedAxelRanger (1:30:48 AM): i dont practice anymore
oovideogamegodoo (1:30:52 AM): how often do you get it off
oovideogamegodoo (1:30:54 AM): what %
oovideogamegodoo (1:30:56 AM): of the time
oovideogamegodoo (1:31:00 AM): you got it most every time vs me i remember
oovideogamegodoo (1:31:02 AM): that time at inuis
RedAxelRanger (1:31:04 AM): yeah
RedAxelRanger (1:31:09 AM): i get it like 90% of the time at least
oovideogamegodoo (1:31:13 AM): double hit is guaranteed?
RedAxelRanger (1:31:33 AM): no it's not, it's just REALLY fawken hard to get JUST the tipper
RedAxelRanger (1:31:37 AM): but if you get JUST the tipper
RedAxelRanger (1:31:39 AM): it kills at earlier %
oovideogamegodoo (1:31:47 AM): is the double hit possible to do consistently
oovideogamegodoo (1:32:20 AM): im talking for damage here lol
RedAxelRanger (1:32:24 AM): oh yeah
RedAxelRanger (1:32:25 AM): the double hit
RedAxelRanger (1:32:26 AM): is waaay easier
RedAxelRanger (1:32:30 AM): then the single hit
RedAxelRanger (1:32:30 AM): to do
oovideogamegodoo (1:32:39 AM): u cant escape the double hit right?
RedAxelRanger (1:32:46 AM): nope
29% per grab, with little practice, according to him. I've known him for years, he doesn't lie.
(this is JUST limiting it to Sheik, not including zelda or her KO ability)
I take 29% per grab, and i heard it kills at like 85 or something similar if you get the single tipper hit (according to spam, the 29% hit is easy to do). That's pretty ridiculous. Yes I would imagine it being hard... but he manages to do it quite consistently, he said 90% of the time he gets it, and he only practiced it once.
oovideogamegodoo (1:30:28 AM): u dont practice sheiks boost up smash much do you?
RedAxelRanger (1:30:39 AM): nah, i just practiced it once
RedAxelRanger (1:30:40 AM): to learn it
RedAxelRanger (1:30:45 AM): but no
RedAxelRanger (1:30:48 AM): i dont practice anymore
oovideogamegodoo (1:30:52 AM): how often do you get it off
oovideogamegodoo (1:30:54 AM): what %
oovideogamegodoo (1:30:56 AM): of the time
oovideogamegodoo (1:31:00 AM): you got it most every time vs me i remember
oovideogamegodoo (1:31:02 AM): that time at inuis
RedAxelRanger (1:31:04 AM): yeah
RedAxelRanger (1:31:09 AM): i get it like 90% of the time at least
oovideogamegodoo (1:31:13 AM): double hit is guaranteed?
RedAxelRanger (1:31:33 AM): no it's not, it's just REALLY fawken hard to get JUST the tipper
RedAxelRanger (1:31:37 AM): but if you get JUST the tipper
RedAxelRanger (1:31:39 AM): it kills at earlier %
oovideogamegodoo (1:31:47 AM): is the double hit possible to do consistently
oovideogamegodoo (1:32:20 AM): im talking for damage here lol
RedAxelRanger (1:32:24 AM): oh yeah
RedAxelRanger (1:32:25 AM): the double hit
RedAxelRanger (1:32:26 AM): is waaay easier
RedAxelRanger (1:32:30 AM): then the single hit
RedAxelRanger (1:32:30 AM): to do
oovideogamegodoo (1:32:39 AM): u cant escape the double hit right?
RedAxelRanger (1:32:46 AM): nope
29% per grab, with little practice, according to him. I've known him for years, he doesn't lie.
(this is JUST limiting it to Sheik, not including zelda or her KO ability)
Mew2King
King of the Mews
no, it requires simple rock paper scissors, just that there's more "interesting" things to do since brawl is a freedomish game where you can do many unique things. Mostly it comes down to covering common options.
I throw grenades with snake, if MK runs at me ill F tilt 4/5 times, and 1/5 times i will dash grab (into down throw + 50/50 chance of a tech chase F tilt, which averages 20%+ per grab). This covers most common options with much harder punishes than MK could do to me. Math is important, and I am speaking from experience when I say this. This is just 1 example.
Inui
Banned via Warnings
No. Wtf are you talking about? You have absolutely no understanding of high level play in any game ever if you think guessing games don't matter just because of equal skill being taken into account. Guesswork is done constantly in every match ever, regardless of skill. It's an extremely important part of fighting games. At the highest level, proper guesswork and pattern reading is crucial because equal skill often causes deadlocks due to low-risk things being preferred.
Joxer
Smash Apprentice
This is prob one of the best arguments IMO that I have ever heard in favor of banning MK.
Inui
Banned via Warnings
Then that makes you very ignorant on the subject
People like da KID keep saying MK is "broken." Do they even understand what means? It means he can't lose unless the other player is millions of times better. It means he has something that locks down everyone else and makes them unable to win. MK doesn't have this AT ALL. He gets shut down consistently in Atlantic North.
I'm tired of crappy players saying such garbage.
Budget Player Cadet_
Smash Hero
Broken may be an incorrect term, but unbalanced isn't. And I'd say that meta surely has issues with that.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
so in your mind, just replace broken with bannable, guess what happens
same result.
oh and joxer thank you for the complement.
but Mk really does have something to lock everyother character down...
but inui, are you saying that if i was better at the game and beat you on a consistent basis, than it would be ok for me to say that hes broken?
same result.
oh and joxer thank you for the complement.
but Mk really does have something to lock everyother character down...
but inui, are you saying that if i was better at the game and beat you on a consistent basis, than it would be ok for me to say that hes broken?
Inui
Banned via Warnings
If you want a balanced fighting game, play Guilty Gear.
Every other game has several characters dominating and that's it.
Look at MVC2. Every team has Storm in it and various other top tiers, and nothing else is even touched.
Look at CVS2. Blanka, Vega, Ken, Sakura, and a few others over and over and over and over.
No other community cries like this despite their games having even less variety.
No, he doesn't, or he'd be broken. He doesn't lock down any characters that are actually good. Do you even know what it means to be "broken" or "lock down" another character?
I don't even understand what this means.
Edit: Oh, now I get it.
If you were actually good at the game, then that would show some level of understanding of high level play. That'd certainly make your opinion more valid overall, especially in the eyes of an elitist like myself.
KosukeKGA
Smash Champion
And he plays Sonic... >_>
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