Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

[R3N0]

excuse double post trying to figure out rainbow gayness.

 

[R3N0]

I give up lol ^.^

 

[TresChikon]

I would like to be amazing and gay as well for some reason.

Then play more Marth.

 

[R3N0]

Btw sorry to say amsah is no where near as good as usa sheiks. sorry.
i dont see where the hype is.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

I agree but he asked for PAL sheiks.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

tektek.org/color

Honestly, we should just let this trend die.

 

[Falcinho]

lol your so silly with your underestimating of foreign players.

Amsah didn't enter a single tourney for about one year from spring 2008 untill spring 2009 and still got third iirc at the biggest euro tourney this year easily.

and from my imformation he tries to get in shape since armadas performance at SMACK

 

[R3N0]

visually it looks like usa sheiks > amsah, i dont see anything impressive.
Yey I can be cool!!!!

 

[Just Sexed]

visually it looks like usa sheiks > amsah, i dont see anything impressive.
Yey I can be cool!!!!

He actually looks a lot sexier than most US sheiks IMO.

Having a crappy d-throw allows for more innovation in his combos.

 

[earla]

I just watche an Amsah vid. I noticed that he does the Pivot needle > Aerial thing. I thought I was the only one who did that. It made me happy. "quoted vanz

whats this 'pivot needle' vanz just mentioned?

question:

1. what are applications for edgeguarding with sheiks:
a) nair
b) fair
c) bair

like how do u decide which one to use?

2. is roll dodging ever useful? which of sheiks roll is better? i had a play and it looks like sheiks back roll is quicker?

3. in pal up to what % is crouch cancelling effective?

4. what are good sheik neutrals? and counterpicks? and why?

thanks

 

[KirbyKaze]

Nair is a meaty hitbox with a very crappy hitbox in front of it. It is mainly useful if you can't get the spacing for a Bair in time and you have the edge. Or if their recovery has no priority in front of it (Space animal Illusions, Pikachu, etc). There is a hitbox below her back leg and forward leg and above her forward leg, so you can sometimes hit people out of angles that aim into that region. However, this is not recommended (by me), or at least not with Nair because Bair is better for that stuff. However, Nair can work in a pinch if you can't get Bair out.

Fair is for gimping people offstage. If you can dash off DJ Fair or dash off Fair or jump off DJ Fair them you probably should. It also has the least knockback for the strong move, so you can slap spacies into the wall at slightly lower percents and not fear a tech. You can also combo them together offstage the easiest without needing to grab the edge because the move ends quickly. Generally, if you can hit Fair offstage then it's better than Bair and Nair because of the angle.

Bair is for everything Nair and Fair can do. Except it also has this awesome weak hit that you can combo into another weak hit and not have space animals tech when you're doing mid-percent gimps. The strong hit has good knockback and a ridiculous hitbox, so it's super easy to beat Firefoxes and stuff with it. You can also regrab the edge after Bair, which means you can often miss and have the opponent die because you'll edgehog them for trying to avoid your move so much.

tl;dr Bair usually. Bair is usually the best. Fair if you can do it. Nair if you can't get Bair or Fair out in time.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

sheik is great on every stage, including counter picks. You might as well be playing fox for how good she is on them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZfRcfA5Q70

 

[R3N0]

btw vanz i do that **** all the time, i dunno what you're talking about even. reverse needle aerial.
And I don't think Amsah looks better than Tec0, nor m2k, nor when kdj was playing.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Seems like both of Sheik's rolls are the same.

Roll
Invulnerable 4-19 out of 31

It's not that useful. There're generally better options.

Fountain is a good Sheik stage because it messes up other peoples' shffls without really affecting your own negatively. I like Battlefield too, 'cause your recovery isn't that hard on that stage compared to that of other peoples'. Final Destination is nice too for chaingrabs.

It depends on the opponent's character, really.

Pivot needle is probably reverse needle cancel. Last I checked, you can't pivot a neutral B.

I could be wrong, though.

 

[earla]

sheik boards are amazing. all the help is much appreciated.

cheers from melb, aus

 

[Kira-]

And his Sheik is pretty good too, but I think Drephen, Tope, and M2K are still better.

i have to disagree, he was the best for a long time until just recently when armada passed him up

and we all saw what armada did at genesis O_o

the only thing is that sheik isn't quite as good and some other characters are way better in ntsc as we all know
but amsah would TAP armada in ntsc





but anyway, girls are for ***s

 

[Devil Ray]

the only thing is that sheik isn't quite as good and some other characters are way better in ntsc as we all know
but amsah would TAP armada in ntsc

wait, i'm confused. so are you saying sheik isn't as good in pal or ntsc? isn't sheik the best char in pal? in the US, i consider her number 2 after fox no matter what the tier list says.

amsah would do great in ntsc, i bet he'd love playing sheik over here. btw, can you tech behind a person from the dthrow in pal? that throw looks so weird

 

[Lawrencelot]

Btw sorry to say amsah is no where near as good as usa sheiks. sorry.
i dont see where the hype is.

Lol. Have you learned nothing since Genesis? Armada beats anyone but Mango. In Europe, Amsah beats anyone but Armada and Zgetto. Just wait till Pound4, Amsah will get top5.

 

[aquanesia]

If you can't give specifics isn't it pretty pointless to compare these players from different regions?

 

[SPAWN]

Wait why is Sheik the best character in PAL? I just don't see it without that nasty dthrow lol.

 

[ZoSo]

Lol. Have you learned nothing since Genesis? Armada beats anyone but Mango. In Europe, Amsah beats anyone but Armada and Zgetto. Just wait till Pound4, Amsah will get top5.

Armada had tons of close sets at Genesis.

In Europe, he frequently wins tournies dropping only one or two matches.

What's your point, exactly?

Marc, I think PAL Sheik is considered the best mostly because of Amsah.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

A lot of other characters got nerfed too. Fox's usmash, some of his shine stuff, Marth's spike, etc.

Although I feel like Falco is still relatively intact. Maybe if they had a Zhu =P

I haven't played PAL, though, so I wouldn't know.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Fountain is good for Sheik because you can duck under platforms and if they try to approach from the air then you wait for them to land on the platform and then your tilts GO THROUGH THE PLATFORMS.

And if it's a big meaty move with a lot of startup time that goes through the platform like Falcon Dair you can just jump at him and hit him before his move comes out.

And then it's a small stage, gimps, top platform, yaddy yaddy yadda.

 

[nicaboy]

I know peach and puff are the exact same in the pal version.

 

[Cia]

I don't see Sheik as being THAT much different in PAL. the physics of her Dthrow are slightly altered. I feel like you can still Dthrow > Usmash certain chars.

I really wanna play in a PAL tournament because I want to abuse Fox's nerfs. >=]

 

[earla]

how do you DI foxes up air in pal?

how do you DI that fox shine - shine - shine?

what are combos to watch out for with fox trying to lead into shine? or any shine combos to look out for?

thanks

edit: ALSO:

in this amsah vid im watching. its v remen(fox) on yoshis island.

at one point amsah is about f-tilt range away from remen. he does -up-tilt first then f-tilt.

is amsah looking to punish a roll initially from remen?

 

[elvenarrow3000]

You'd have to SDI away from waveshine chains. Quarter circle DI is easiest for this, just move your control stick from upper right/left to lower right/left really fast then back, over and over.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Yo it's all about the half moon DI.

MOON TIARA MAGIC.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

I don't even know what to say to you anymore, KirbyKaze.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Half moon DI is as legit as it gets, son.

Moon Tiara Magic DI is the evolution. You just have to make sure you do all the directions Sailer Moon does when she throws the tiara and then you'll escape Fox Uair approximately 13% of the time.

edit: On a serious note, elven is right in that quarter circle DI is the best for escaping things because of where the controller's receptors to inputs are during hitlag.

 

[soap]

btw vanz i do that **** all the time, i dunno what you're talking about even. reverse needle aerial.
And I don't think Amsah looks better than Tec0, nor m2k, nor when kdj was playing.

i love how amsahs sheik looks, it's kinda silly, it walks around alot and waits, but then he has really quick aerial spacing and tech chases

but u seem to be judging them on visual appeal and your taste seems to be in sheiks of your similar style. I mean, it's my favorite style to watch too, but r u trying to say tec's sheik is at a higher level than amsah?

 

[AnDaLe]

i was watching M2k vids, and almost all the time, i see M2k jump out of sheild Nair when a Falco or Fox is sheild pressuring with shine nair shine Dair etc. When i try to nair in between the dairs, nairs, or shine, i usually get hit by the consecutive. Am i just to slow when i nair out of sheild or what? Should i roll instead?

 

[DtJ Jungle]

You have to time it correctly between the shine and the next aerial.

 

[AnDaLe]

but i can't do anything because of shield stun...right?

 

[Nihonjin]

Wait why is Sheik the best character in PAL? I just don't see it without that nasty dthrow lol.

All the other characters are far worse as well, but I agree, she's not the best. That tier list is outdated.

I don't see Sheik as being THAT much different in PAL. the physics of her Dthrow are slightly altered. I feel like you can still Dthrow > Usmash certain chars.

No way!!

You can barely hit a dash-attack on most characters..

how do you DI foxes up air in pal?

Same as in NTSC?

what are combos to watch out for with fox trying to lead into shine? or any shine combos to look out for?

Same as in NTSC? lol

in this amsah vid im watching. its v remen(fox) on yoshis island.

at one point amsah is about f-tilt range away from remen. he does -up-tilt first then f-tilt.

is amsah looking to punish a roll initially from remen?

If you like me to the vid & timeframe I'll tell you.

[edit]

Why doesn't anyone like my Sheik? </3

 

[DtJ Jungle]

but i can't do anything because of shield stun...right?

the shield stun is longer between the shine -> aerial than it is to aerial -> shine.


just wd out.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

I don't like PAL players at all <_< They're just too different.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

SO what is sheik's general strategy vs a marth? What mistakes is she trying to force and punish usually?

 

[elvenarrow3000]

If you can sneak in a grab, you can punish that. I'm not certain, but Sheik might be able to duck under Marth's standing grab. Outside of that, really it's just gimps and low altitude combos once you get inside his guard.

Oh and needle camping. Needle abuse in general.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Marth has no good "get off me" move like Shine or Sheik/Peach D-smash he's really just stuck with grab so once you get close just wait for him to inevitably try to DD grab and punish it. Or just hit him. Preferably in a manner that doesn't get swallowed by his ridiculously amazing crouch cancel grab.