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Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

stelzig

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Messages
1,415
Location
Århus, Denmark
Well you can cut out doing it at all if you want, the most important part of it is to not really give a **** about their complaining anyway, lol. It can't really not work (except if you want to make sure they don't get pissed :p)

Edit: Or it can "not work" on the teaching part as well, but the only other way I see that as possible, is if they get on a level where they realise it on their own. That and exposure to different views is the only way.
 

stelzig

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Messages
1,415
Location
Århus, Denmark
Aren't they supposed to be friends?

Either way, they're more likely to have to try to defend themselves, which is impossible to do against a troll (and just as legit complaints as theirs), and would imo only make it amusing. Each to their own though.
 

Beat!

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
3,214
Location
Uppsala, Sweden
I've heard countless stories about casual friends becoming whiny/mad as hell because of strategies they don't like.

And amusement is nice and all, but I'm still not convinced it'd make them less inclined to call stuff cheap.
 

unknown522

Some guy
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
8,047
Location
Toronto, Ontario
Ummm
It really dosent matter if ur homies call something gay. Just realize that u are winning. And some players di

If ur good. U should **** them (mango style) - it feels good
Just remember that tournament is always playing by the rules of winning/ lossing. So u should play "gay" ftw
I call everything 'gay' in this game. Even the things that I do. If someone calls something I did 'gay', then I just say 'yep'.

Smash has so much gay **** that it doesn't matter anyway.

:phone:
 

stelzig

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Messages
1,415
Location
Århus, Denmark
I've heard before that danish humor isn't always easy to understand for foreigners so maybe...

Anyway: To get you started, comment every time they pull off kills that didn't actually require any technical play at all - tons of two-hit combos, finishing with Uair(fox) or Dair(falco).
Commenting on long combo strings can be good too (I'd suggest calling them autocombos too).
I'm assuming they play spacies.

Edit: Ah, yes. I've conceded some of the stuff i've done as gay or lame before as well. Though it is usually with characters I don't normally use or something i've previously made alot of comments on towards others. But good to see that i'm not entirely alone on what I said, hah.

Ok i'm done writing about this in the sheik discussion thread.
 

unknown522

Some guy
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
8,047
Location
Toronto, Ontario
Double jab on tech chasing is great. No one is going to SDI the second jab well enough to escape (if that's even possible....). Just don't wait around when you jab the opponent. Hit them before they have time to do anything

:phone:
 

Maybe

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Messages
36
Location
Massachusetts
Hmm, thanks for the advice guys. I'll do my best to not let it affect me. It makes me wonder though, with how understanding the community is, why did everybody bash Hbox with his bairs? Cause the first thing that comes to mind when I'm thinking "Gay" playstyle, it would be Hbox. But I like what SilentSWAG said on the other page:

Just remember that tournament is always playing by the rules of winning/ lossing. So u should play "gay" ftw
I also really liked this comment:
SWAG and I have to deal with being called gay by the people we play with all the time.

You just have to learn to deal with it, and just smile as you're beating them if they're complaining.

Smiling is one of the best IRL mindgames.
It sounds like something another one of my friends would say IRL regarding mindgames. looool.
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
Location
Spiral Mountain
I have presents for you guys coming soon =)

Got 2nd at Rule 6, losing to Mango twice in GFs.

I have sets recorded with HMW, Sung, Westballz, S2J, Shroomed, and Mango. They should be uploaded in the next little while. Expect gratuitous death combos, nairs OOS, and my awful gimp game xD

Hope you guys still enjoy playing this character - I'm having more fun than ever ^_^
 

Kaffei

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 8, 2008
Messages
7,048
I want to cop out and learn sheik vs samus/peach lol. Where do I start?
Here's a great post by KirbyKaze about Sheik vs Peach that I saved:
KirbyKaze said:
Peach Sheik in NTSC...

Make her get into the air and slap or bair her appropriately. Needles are good for making her go airborne. After you slap or bair her, your follow (assuming you get a follow) depends mostly on positioning and stuff. I find bair > bair is pretty common at low percents, and fair > f-tilt > fair is pretty common too. Fair > dash attack > ??? becomes pretty good at mid percents.

You can f-tilt through her aerials too, if you want to. You have to do it proactively rather than reactively, though, so be careful with it. You can also dash attack under her aerials (not dair) if you time it and position it correctly. Takes some getting used to, though.

If Peach decides to not approach when floating, remember that her float only lasts so long. You can honestly just sit back and charge ground needles and throw them at her when she's coming down if she's trying to be hyper conservative. Just be prepared to cancel the charge and swing at her (or retreat) if she starts coming at you. Her only option at that point is to attack (which is fine), try to throw you off with garbage like air-dodge that doesn't do anything about needles, or retreat to a platform. Peach being on a platform is a good position for you as long as you're not stupid (just don't jump into down smash).

When blocking, you can't counterattack after FC aerials. You can counterattack after dash attack, jabs, and down smashes. And anything that's spaced badly (f-smash, badly spaced d-tilt, etc).

If she decides to play a ground game, it's not too different, only you're supposed to play a bit more defensively because attacking recklessly into Peach's ground game gives her more chances to get under you. Use a bit more bair. WD back, shield, dash dance, etc. Just flaunt how your movement is much better than her's and you'll be fine.

Protip: When you're spacing bairs, if she comes in for a dash attack, instead of bairing just triangle jump away from her and then punish appropriately. I like to turn around and grab, but if f-tilt tickles your fancy and it's at a percent where it'll work, then go for it.

She's gonna crouch a lot so you have to be good at aiming your aerials relatively low to the ground (while still retaining the AC in the case of fair).

Lightshielding near the edge to force yourself to grab the edge is massively underrated and very good because she can't actually do that much about your poofstall without being kind of obvious about it. I mean, if you just poofstall over and over again she can eventually steal the edge, but you can see her getting that position and switch it up (baby ledgedash is amazing). If you can catch a turnip, you can make it really hard for her to cover all your recovery options onto the stage even if you forgo the use of the ledgedash so keep that in mind.

If they're really campy, if possible, push them to the edge (get them trapped under a platform, etc). From there you can just pressure them and zone them until you hit them offstage and then do some systematic aerial & tilt algorithm and you'll cover just about everything. You shouldn't concern yourself too much if she grabs the edge because you can cover most of her getup options really easily because she doesn't have a proper ledgehop (no ledgedash, really slow ledgehop aerial, loses almost all invincibility if she tries something funny, etc). Needles are amazing in this position.
 

Smooth Criminal

Da Cheef
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
13,576
Location
Hinckley, Minnesota
NNID
boundless_light
I have presents for you guys coming soon =)

Got 2nd at Rule 6, losing to Mango twice in GFs.

I have sets recorded with HMW, Sung, Westballz, S2J, Shroomed, and Mango. They should be uploaded in the next little while. Expect gratuitous death combos, nairs OOS, and my awful gimp game xD

Hope you guys still enjoy playing this character - I'm having more fun than ever ^_^
Great stuff, KK.

<3333

Smooth Criminal
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
Location
Spiral Mountain
He went all Falco.

I think he was considering Puff in 5th match of 1st set because his controller was malfunctioning (unintentional side-Bs) but he stuck to Falco.

I was kind of hoping to play his Puff lolz.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
heres my tip to those who have trouble with falcon no-tech and jabjab/ jab, f-tilt, jab w/e isnt working out for the best


DO NOTHING/duck and most will do a normal get-up cuz they are holding up/ c-stick up

if they roll away just follow them or if you are slow do boost grab
 

TaFoKiNtS

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 21, 2005
Messages
1,027
KK, more advice for me please!

Man, I wish the weekend didn't finish so quickly. If I didn't work, I'd have shown you more of the area.
 

SonuvaBeach

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 7, 2008
Messages
1,141
Location
Howell, MI
KK these sets that are getting uploaded are ****. So impressed.

Gonna get around to watching you as well Tafo but I won't have any good advice ha.

I need to learn to nair OoS that consistently as well as upsmash more often, god damn.
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
Location
Spiral Mountain
Thanks for the compliments guys. I was really hoping to do well at Rule 6 and I'm glad I didn't let anyone down. I actually have more stuff for you guys though; my LB sets from IMPULSE are finally going up on Youtube.

Me vs Unknown and Raynex are up. The rest of the sets should be going up on that channel.

There's actually a good example on when Sheik's up throw is comparably good to her down throw in me vs Unknown right here. Up throw was okay here because the behind DI forced him to tech on the platform, which I can react to with any of my big aerials (bair, nair, fair). After about 50% I can combo up tilt or f/d-tilt off the other DIs too. So doing the up throw here let me consolidate damage and finish my combo easily & effectively. I think if you have a better reaction time than me (and super dash tech skill) then you can probably react with uair the same way that Armada does, which is kind of neat because uair is still good for comboing at that percent. But I usually just cover one side with SH uair and wait, then bair if they roll (or similar stuff like that 'cuz I muck up dash SH uair a lot - I should work on it though).

It's kind of situational but it's something to keep in mind if you find yourself slightly in front of and underneath a platform on YS, DL, or BF. Opponent has to be over 50% though or they can just DI neutral and shine you first. The up throw --> up tilt link on neutral DI is kind of tight but it's doable with a bit of practice.

edit:

You guys should "Drephen" more often. Good stuff often happens for seemingly no reason.
 

joejoe22802

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 28, 2005
Messages
873
If you time a dash attack early enough should you be able to get inbetween a falco's Dair to shine/spotdodge/shield/crouch cancel or do those defensive options come out first?
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
Location
Spiral Mountain
I think d-throw would've been 1000x better in that link

edit: watched that set vs shroomed. There's a lot to be discussed
I think consolidating damage with the u-throw > automatic aerial was fine. But you might be right - d-throw has remarkably good potential and damage output.
 

leffen

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
2,032
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
Why don't Sheiks use the reverse hitbox of dash attack? :o

Why don't Sheiks tech anything but falco dmashes (and barely even then)?

Why don't Sheiks learn needle turnaround edgehog?

Why don't Sheiks use no-explosion up b stall? (much safer incase they steal the ledge, and has less of a visual cue while still being invincible)

just wondering
 

unknown522

Some guy
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
8,047
Location
Toronto, Ontario
Why don't Sheiks use the reverse hitbox of dash attack? :o

Why don't Sheiks tech anything but falco dmashes (and barely even then)?

Why don't Sheiks learn needle turnaround edgehog?

Why don't Sheiks use no-explosion up b stall? (much safer incase they steal the ledge, and has less of a visual cue while still being invincible)

just wondering
I know that KK reverses the dash attack an needle hogs.

He also techs falco's d-air when grounded quite a bit

:phone:
 

leffen

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
2,032
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
KK should really tech bairs/fsmashes from Mango more...He took so many fsmashes that either killed him or put him offstage in a bad position that he could have just teched for a free ledge grab.

When recovering as Sheik you really have no excuse... its extremely easy to do

teching dairs is in 99% of cases just a shield input turned tech and holding down from habit I find.
 
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