Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

[Jolteon]

Sometimes when I don't know what to do with a knockdown, I just down smash the opponent and it turns into a big combo.

I saw Jolteon do something kind of cute on the stream yesterday. He jab reset a space animal below 30 and IMMEDIATELY down smashed to get the last two hits only. Because he hit with the last hit, he was able to continue to tech chase (hitting super late with down smash is kind of pro) and it was kind of neat. I might experiment with that because it looked cool and it did 23% total (including the jab), which is more than what I currently do at that percent (jab reset > up smash).

Oh yeah this was vs a Fox. I wouldn't bother trying it vs Falcon. His SDI out of the jab reset is really easy and he's fatter so the down smash hits might not knock over either. I'd probably have to figure out when they knock over Fox too (so I don't do the chunk of damage and then lose my punish - that would suck). I imagine DI away probably ruins this too but idgaf.

Haha, I thought barely anyone was watching that stream. ^^

 

[Sinji]

During this match M2k has been getting Lucky with those ftilts every time he jumps.

Good stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_71q5lVEjc&feature=g-all-u

2:43


Edit: what is a good oos option against fox/falco's utilt?

 

[silentSWAG]

Edit: what is a good oos option against fox/falco's utilt?

wd oos back > grab (if your fast enough, but its probably safer to just run away)

 

[gm jack]

Sometimes when I don't know what to do with a knockdown, I just down smash the opponent and it turns into a big combo.

I saw Jolteon do something kind of cute on the stream yesterday. He jab reset a space animal below 30 and IMMEDIATELY down smashed to get the last two hits only. Because he hit with the last hit, he was able to continue to tech chase (hitting super late with down smash is kind of pro) and it was kind of neat. I might experiment with that because it looked cool and it did 23% total (including the jab), which is more than what I currently do at that percent (jab reset > up smash).

Oh yeah this was vs a Fox. I wouldn't bother trying it vs Falcon. His SDI out of the jab reset is really easy and he's fatter so the down smash hits might not knock over either. I'd probably have to figure out when they knock over Fox too (so I don't do the chunk of damage and then lose my punish - that would suck). I imagine DI away probably ruins this too but idgaf.

Doesn't jab reset usmash just lead into either a regrab or a tech chase as well?

 

[silentSWAG]

i rather just grab > grab > grab > reset > grab > grab > grab > dash attack fair

 

[TvH]

I was wondering if there are any Sheik techniques that I should practice? Like falco and fox practicing pillaring and short hop lasers, is there anything like that for Sheik that it is important that I get the feel for it.

 

[unknown522]

Why not just shield grab the spacies u-tilt?

 

[KirbyKaze]

Shield grab, down tilt, down smash, bair, etc.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

the only important thing to have a feel for is when fair autocancels. other than that, things should just make sense.

 

[The Great Gonzales]

well the up-b stall is a good thing to practice you never want to mess that up and kill yourself

 

[Sinji]

What are some good stages for shiek against Falco?

 

[silentSWAG]

it all depends on which style the falco portraits
but you can abuse gimps on FOD easily
i personaly rather just play on battle field tho
cuz lasers are such a drag and battle field's platforms are easy to get to and avoid sh lasers

 

[Blazeraid]

10char10char

 

[stelzig]

Just hit with the foot on sheik's bair. Seems pretty recogniseable to me.

Anyway.. Front hitbox.

 

[soap]

you'll notice it's a little above her foot. easier to space into things above you. You gotta take it real low to sweetspot short grounded characters.

crouching jigglypuff is very hard

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

How is that gif made? Those hitboxes imply that sheik was falling while the gif was captured

 

[S l o X]

fully convinced fox vs sheik is 50-50 on most stages.

or you guys all just suck vs fox / m2k has got it down perfect.

 

[Jolteon]

I think its even too.

 

[The Great Gonzales]

nah M2K is just good, you cant say a macth-up is 50/50 cause X player wins it. That would be like saying Fox vs. Peach is 50-50 cause Armada wins it. Macth-ups are when talking about players on equal skill level.

 

[Meljin]

Matchs-up are about players on the top of the metagame, in fact.

I was wondering, about the match-up spacie vs Sheik, how can we edgeguard when the Fox/Falco is Up-B ing like that :

(yeah awesome Paint skills...)

 

[SonuvaBeach]

Best if you know they are going to do it is run off fair, guaranteed stock.

That requires a lot of commitment though and the other option is to simply throw a needle. They'll drop down and have to up b again. Then run off the stage immediately to fair/nair them out of their up b

And I don't think Fox vs Sheik is even at all. 55-45 probably. Fox's combo's are easier to execute and every hit can lead to one at any percent.

 

[Jolteon]

Matchs-up are about players on the top of the metagame, in fact.

I was wondering, about the match-up spacie vs Sheik, how can we edgeguard when the Fox/Falco is Up-B ing like that :

(yeah awesome Paint skills...)

run off fair, or needles.

@Tr3mor: How do you go from not being "even at all" to it being "55-45 probably"? The fact that you would attribute the match-up to being so close to even would also imply that you believe there is enough flexibility in match-up opinion for it to be considered even.

I do agree that Fox's combos are easier to execute, though.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Sheik vs Fox... it's not enough of a loss or win to warrant a character switch. Whatever the ratio is, it can be overcome by being good or whatever. Same thing with Sheik vs Falco.

ICs I'm less convinced but I'm willing to attribute that to my total and complete lack of practice vs a decent ICs. Puff seems manageable with enough practice... in addition to being on point you have to be playing with excruciating care & precision. And even then you might lose. Oh well.

If we wanted easy matches vs Puff & ICs we would have picked Fox.

 

[ShroudedOne]

No, this should be somewhere else.

 

[omgwtfToph]

(yeah awesome Paint skills...)

I was skimming the thread by quickly scrolling through it, and I saw this and thought initially that it was a crude drawing of the outline of America.

Everything makes so much sense now. Falco is stuck in Alaska and wants to come back to the contiguous United States, and "Le Me" is guarding the border between BC and Washington. Which means "Le Me" is probably the ******* that searched our car at the border for an hour and a half on the way back from the last BC tourney.

 

[Meljin]

Everything makes so much sense now. Falco is stuck in Alaska and wants to come back to the contiguous United States, and "Le Me" is guarding the border between BC and Washington. Which means "Le Me" is probably the ******* that searched our car at the border for an hour and a half on the way back from the last BC tourney.

Lol, that's an awesome interpretation :D
Abstract Paint art is definitely abstract.

Thanks a lot, I thought for some reasons that an Up-B like this will have the priority over the needles or a dropzone fair.

 

[Sinji]

I was skimming the thread by quickly scrolling through it, and I saw this and thought initially that it was a crude drawing of the outline of America.

Everything makes so much sense now. Falco is stuck in Alaska and wants to come back to the contiguous United States, and "Le Me" is guarding the border between BC and Washington. Which means "Le Me" is probably the ******* that searched our car at the border for an hour and a half on the way back from the last BC tourney.

LMFAO!!! Toph

Edit: how do you edge gaurd peach when she is floating above you?

 

[The Great Gonzales]

LMFAO!!! Toph

Edit: how do you edge gaurd peach when she is floating above you?

you dont XD, well theres things you can do but its risky because when she's above you she has infinite priority

 

[knightpraetor]

so i've been teaching my little brother sheik and finally got past the neutral stuff and started trying to teach him edgeguarding vs fox off of a bthrow but i don't really know all the mixups. could some people post how you like to cover phantasm?

I was mainly wondering if it's better to sh back and then bair on reaction to the jump phantasm? can they get by this by instantly phantasm sweetspotting? so then you just hog/needle the ledge to block the sweetspot?

though sometimes i've seen m2k just stand there facing back and then reactively bair high phantasm and just ftilt the phantasm at him..this loses to sweetspot as well though.

and i guess a final option would be run off rising bair/nair. Though I don't know any advantages/disadvantages of the nair/bair. So if anyone could discuss that and the various coverages of the methods i mentioned or others, I would appreciate it. It's hard to teach someone how to edgeguard if you're uncertain what methods are best anyway..

just from looking at it run off rising something seems strictly better. what does it lose to? sometimes you just can't get off in time? is that the problem

 

[Jolteon]

run off rising nair loses to instant DJ nair/dair, and air dodge if you do it early.

 

[ChicknMonkey]

Is there any sense in a Gannon Sheik doubles team? Why/ Why not?

 

[silentSWAG]

sooo. my house is haunted

 

[The Great Gonzales]

did you try down smashing the ghost? i hear they dont like that

 

[odinNJ]

implying you shouldnt switch to falco, use phantasm, and pretentd to be his friend and ask him to leave.

 

[Sweet™]

What's the best way to practice tech chase grabs against Fox?
I can't seem to get it right whenever I try. I'll get one or two grabs (JC Grabs), and when I go for another, the Fox sidesteps and punishes me. I guess my speed is too slow, and I'm stuck.

 

[Jolteon]

Use boost grab.

 

[gm jack]

If you are variable in your ability to be fast enough, try using tricks like waiting for the spot dodge and grabbing that in order to discourage automatic buffering the dodge in hope you mess up.

 

[Sweet™]

Stupid question, but would it help if I had someone play as Fox, and let me tech chase grab practice them, while they do different reactions?

 

[Jolteon]

Yes, but I think it works best by practicing on multiple people, lots of people have tech habits which will condition you to wait for them, rather than tech chasing on reaction.

 

[Sweet™]

Well, I mean. I only have one Fox in my area, but I figure practicing on at least one is better than none.