Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

[-Vocal-]

I've started wavedashing at a novice level on a regular basis now. This has made playing Marth infinitely more fun than he was before (that and learning his Fair could juggle [I know, i Waz/Izz a noob]). That said, I need to know how to use it to make my Sheik game better.

What tactics are the correct way to use wavedash on Sheik? I know a lot of characters have WD Back > Something gimmicks - is WD Back > FTilt a good idea, or to Nair? Or to dash attack? Or DTilt? Basically is it a good idea to wavedash back into something.

Similar question - is wavedashing forward a good idea? I've started using WD > Grab pretty consistently, but that's all I've used it for so far. So maybe something like WD > Dsmash?

Also, share all your favorite wavedash trixies with me. I want as many tricks in my Bag o' Trickhs as possible

Also, Dair info appreciated. It seems like a really weird hitbox I haven't figured out yet - is it just her toe? Am I L-canceling too soon sometimes? Also, what are good situations to use it in? I've seen ledge hopped Dairs used after ledge hogging to secure a kill, but that's the only specific use that comes to mind.

 

[OmniOstrich]

What are some of sheik's better options at neutral position? Especially against the faster characters (fox/cf and to a lesser extent marth.)

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

you know how theres 3 platforms, 2 lower ones? don't go into that area in the middle where theres no platform over your head.

 

[OmniOstrich]

^If that's directed at me it's only applicable for 3.5/6 stages
(I saw 3.5 because FoD platforms being all weird and sometimes not there)

 

[KirbyKaze]

Sheik dittos are all about SH fair and grab.

All other moves are useless.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

what about sh bair?

edit- also, the only stage that doesnt have platforms in that fashion is FD. Still the point is to not over extend. You cant force it.

 

[Nihonjin]

Sheik dittos are all about SH fair and grab.

All other moves are useless.

I'd like to fight you and prove you wrong..

 

[KirbyKaze]

Hey I'm still waiting on your advice vs M2K

 

[gm jack]

I'd like to fight you and prove you wrong..

Hold on, so if I say something nooby about sheik does this mean you'll travel to the uk to show me I'm wrong?

If so, look at any of my previous posts.

 

[OmniOstrich]

what about sh bair?

edit- also, the only stage that doesnt have platforms in that fashion is FD. Still the point is to not over extend. You cant force it.

does PS not exist on these boards o_O

 

[Teczer0]

does PS not exist on these boards o_O

I always ban that stage in tournament so yes =3

 

[KirbyKaze]

what about sh bair?

edit- also, the only stage that doesnt have platforms in that fashion is FD. Still the point is to not over extend. You cant force it.

Bair loses to Fair a surprisingly high amount.

And grab straight up ***** it.

So no.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Huh i see. Bair is my favorite sheik move though

neutral pos. fairs are pretty high up there too

 

[-Vocal-]

So...Ice Climbers are real gay. How the heck do I handle them?

 

[KirbyKaze]

Learn how to SH fair like a beast.

I am also partial to bair, low nair, retreat rising sex kicks, needles, and up smash comboing Nana.

 

[OmniOstrich]

also ICs suck at handling shield pressure, edge-cancelled aerials and needle+platform tricks ****

 

[Nedved]

About PS (and YS)... the platforms in the neutral position are in a very bad position (when you short hop, you just land :/). It makes pretty hard to do shffl Fair, etc...

Is there a way to use it ? (I heard it was called "no-impact landing" or something like this).
Or should I ban PS ? (I usually ban FD cause i love platforms.)

 

[stelzig]

Alternatively you could just realise not to shffl a Fair when standing under the platform, I don't think they are really reason enough to ban stadium, lol. Bans are a thing of the past in most european tournaments anyway it seems (somewhat sad about this considering certain stages for certain matchups, but I understand why they are gone with so few CPs left)

Btw, if you hold down you won't land on the platform. Or for stadium if you attack while still rising you won't land. YS I have missed my fair share of edgeguards trying to intercept illusion with SH Nair, but then landing on the platform (because i'm dumb http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ic9w02r0ChU#t=4m48s)

 

[BSeeD]

Basically what Stelzig just said.

U can just full hop fast fall.
U can avoid landing on platform by attacking (PS only) and/or fastfalling.

U should try using this instead of banning PS. I always thought PS was a very good stage for Sheik, mostly cause I have a win/loss rate a lot higher than on every other stage.

Maybe it's just me, I'll let better players tell u that, but I wouldn't ban PS as Sheik.

 

[gm jack]

The low platforms do have advantages though. You can do an instant SH dair and not go through the platform but still hit on top of it on platform heights all the way up to BF (though on BF only the top of her knee is high enough to hit).

It's annoying, but platforms almost always help sheik more than they hurt her. Learning the weird platforms just takes practice.

 

[soap]

no impact landing is **** tho. u can sh, land, then almost instantly fall thru with a bair, maybe even walk a lil to retreat it a lil further

the fast fall thing works too, or just do a needle store aerial to stay under

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

The biggest thing with any stage is accepting the properties of the stage. If you treat yoshis like BF you will make mistakes and blame the stage. Its your fault for not recognizing the properties of the stage and using them to your advantage.

 

[KirbyKaze]

you don't even need to ff you can just hold down

 

[S l o X]

sheik is a fun secondary, what is her worst stage?

 

[KirbyKaze]

Pokefloats, probably.

 

[garrR]

i'm having problems in the marth matchup, mostly in the neutral state. i can't quite find a safe way to approach, because i always eat retreating fairs from marth. poking with tilts usually gets me grabbed. i usually resort to sit back and throwing needles, but that just gives marth time to jump over and approach me while i'm recovering from needle lag.

any general tips against marth in the neutral state?

 

[KirbyKaze]

I would generally advise you to not throw ground needles. Charging them to provoke an action is good because then you can cancel and defend yourself. But throwing them from the ground is actually very overrated in the neutral. On that note, aerial needles are a good way to get him attacking and moving towards you because they zone his dash dance range and you don't have tons of punishable lag if you miss provided you do them while you're descending (or have a platform to cancel onto).

His response to that is can be one of three things, basically. He can get close enough for your needles to be punishable (which is IMO the easiest to beat), he can use his shield more and have to use a choppier movement (instead of his amazing dash dance), or he can start jumping around and camp fair outside your needle trajectory (which is probably the most likely answer).

Once you start getting him to do those three, it's just a matter of picking an appropriate counter. Forward tilt and down tilt are pretty good against the fair camp strat because you can stalk his landing and figure out roughly when / where he can double jump but there's other stuff you can do too (dash attacking at his legs is actually pretty good). If he's really close at all times, dash attack through him a lot and grab a lot. If he uses shield movement a lot... just pressure his shield intelligently. And grab him. Often.

Against Marth generally, I'd say you usually want to stick to the ground and WD back is an incredibly good way to space against him. SH aerials are okay but the ground is where Marth struggles hardest with Sheik. Jump counters a lot of trolly moves like d-tilt though so keep that in mind.

If you constantly play to make the first move (and act as the approaching character most of the time) the matchup favours Marth. Sheik wins this one by being a gigantic troll with comparable range and guaranteed, effective combos when she gets a punish.



.

 

[garrR]

I would generally advise you to not throw ground needles. Charging them to provoke an action is good because then you can cancel and defend yourself. But throwing them from the ground is actually very overrated in the neutral. On that note, aerial needles are a good way to get him attacking and moving towards you because they zone his dash dance range and you don't have tons of punishable lag if you miss provided you do them while you're descending (or have a platform to cancel onto).

His response to that is can be one of three things, basically. He can get close enough for your needles to be punishable (which is IMO the easiest to beat), he can use his shield more and have to use a choppier movement (instead of his amazing dash dance), or he can start jumping around and camp fair outside your needle trajectory (which is probably the most likely answer).

Once you start getting him to do those three, it's just a matter of picking an appropriate counter. Forward tilt and down tilt are pretty good against the fair camp strat because you can stalk his landing and figure out roughly when / where he can double jump but there's other stuff you can do too (dash attacking at his legs is actually pretty good). If he's really close at all times, dash attack through him a lot and grab a lot. If he uses shield movement a lot... just pressure his shield intelligently. And grab him. Often.

Against Marth generally, I'd say you usually want to stick to the ground and WD back is an incredibly good way to space against him. SH aerials are okay but the ground is where Marth struggles hardest with Sheik. Jump counters a lot of trolly moves like d-tilt though so keep that in mind.

If you constantly play to make the first move (and act as the approaching character most of the time) the matchup favours Marth. Sheik wins this one by being a gigantic troll with comparable range and guaranteed, effective combos when she gets a punish.



.

so against fair camping, are you suggesting filt/dilt as he lands, or as he goes up? dash attack seems to work really well when i can predict when he's going to jump, but i get scared to overuse it because i get punished so hard.

thanks for the help and the quick reply!

 

[omgwtfToph]

Being scared to "overuse" dash attack is probably a good thing, because you should never ever ever overuse dash attack.

 

[soap]

na don't dtilt marth too much, he can shield grab out of it, cc grab out of it, of just outrange it

to punish fair I like to dash away, then boost grab the landing. if he fairs then double jumps away chase him down and force some kind of response that can be punished either before or during landing.

 

[-Vocal-]

How do I do this

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

hold down and in, option select the tech

 

[KirbyKaze]

so against fair camping, are you suggesting filt/dilt as he lands, or as he goes up? dash attack seems to work really well when i can predict when he's going to jump, but i get scared to overuse it because i get punished so hard.

thanks for the help and the quick reply!

F-tilt you're trying to hit before his fair swings down and cuts through your leg. His fair starts very high, so you're trying to hit him preemptively. I guess that would be as he's going up or hanging in the air (depends on the style of fair he's doing).

With d-tilt you try to sneak under him before he lands. Doing so bypasses the crouch cancel and shielding weaknesses soap pointed out. It's not fool-proof though because he can just dair or whatever and beat it. But then Marth is doing dair. So you should be happy to see him adding such a laggy move to his onstage game that you can deal with in other ways.

soap's suggestion is also good. Simple dash dance boost grab is pretty effective vs Marth because of his slow immediate landing options (slower ground moves than most, crappy sidestep, etc).

 

[-Vocal-]

hold down and in, option select the tech

Option select? What does that mean?

 

[KirbyKaze]

Ignore that term. Just push or hold down and in as the d-smash hits you, and press R a little bit before it hits.



.

 

[Terry]

Tips for beating DK?

 

[ChicknMonkey]

Is there any gain for switiching to zelda at random times for mind games and maybe edge gaurding?
I feel like i could **** with my friends so bad if I did this.

 

[Terry]

The only time I switch is when I'm far off the stage and need some aerial mobility to recover. But before I get back to the stage I always switch back to Sheik. Pretty sure Sheik is 187 times better at edgeguarding than Zelda.

 

[Nedved]

Zelda has 3 use IMO.

1 - Recover (floats, then transform into sheik, then up-B)
2 - Kill a Puff after a missed rest (better than Sheik up-smash)
3 - Kill Puff on stage if you feel very very comfortable with Zelda.

 

[stelzig]

I've switched to zelda against single climber at 0% to avoid getting chaingrabbed from 0-50%, it would probably be better to just avoid getting grabbed though, lol.

Tips for beating DK?

Hit him with stuff...