Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

[gm jack]

But for the marth match up in general, just wait for him to swing his sword, then hit him. Also, don't be afraid to shield a bit, as a lot of marths are very obvious when they go in for the grab.

 

[-Vocal-]

Thanks for the help guys, especially Teczero!

 

[Nedved]

Thanks for the help.
As Tekk said(cause I forgot to), I play in PAL, so it's more tech chase and less CG. And Uair won't kill :/

I'm gonna record some matches in the next weeks, to show you my stupid Sheik against Marths :D

 

[KirbyKaze]

Zone him with needles.

Then **** him.

 

[Zoler]

Dash attack, grab, WD back, WD out of shield, ****

matchup done.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Nair OOS after Fox's shine during pressure way more than you already aren't.

Seriously it's amazing you guys should do it. It actually beats shine --> grab and a buttload of other stuff if their shine is staled at all.

 

[garrR]

so someone tells me that brinstar is a good counterpick against spacies. is there any truth to this? if so, can anyone direct me to some videos of this particular matchup taking place on brinstar?

 

[Van.]

^ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmWkJBnVphU

game 5 of that set.

 

[ChicknMonkey]

Just for lolz question:
What color sheik is the best? i mostly do white

Also, i started using a wavebird controller and have had it for several months now (10 i think) and its starting to go on the "frits." Like very little range and connection craping out. Is 10 monthes the life span of those things because that would really suck. Any suggestions on what to do? (besides get a new controller)

 

[ChicknMonkey]

and its not the batteries
im not that stupid

 

[Crooked Crow]

Also, i started using a wavebird controller and have had it for several months now (10 i think) and its starting to go on the "frits." Like very little range and connection craping out. Is 10 monthes the life span of those things because that would really suck. Any suggestions on what to do? (besides get a new controller)

It's got nothing to do with being stupid, third party controllers are just garbage. They're bad.

I guess you can try fixing the controller if you know how. Otherwise, just get a first party Gamecube controller. You can order them online, or sometimes even find them at vintage gaming stores or off friends.

 

[Ørn]

Wavebirds are 1st party controllers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WaveBird_Wireless_Controller

That being said, they're bad for Melee. There's a bit of extra input delay compared to wired controllers, as far as I know.

They should definitely last more than 10 months though. I've had one for... I don't even know how long (2004?), and it still works, and I probably used it pretty frequently over a 2 year period.

 

[Crooked Crow]

Wavebirds are 1st party controllers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WaveBird_Wireless_Controller

That being said, they're bad for Melee. There's a bit of extra input delay compared to wired controllers, as far as I know.

They should definitely last more than 10 months though. I've had one for... I don't even know how long (2004?), and it still works, and I probably used it pretty frequently over a 2 year period.

Oooooh, those. Yeah, I assumed they were third party, didn't remember quite what they were until you showed me that. My apologies.

 

[Salevits]

I have started to seriously practise the so called "precautious DI" (Or I guess usually you could just call it "autoCrouchCancelling") ..I mean the process of inputting DI while grabbing, f-tilting, up smashing etc.. In case you happen to trade hits etc.. I have started to di down and away with the control stick and down with the C-stick..

But what I want to ask is..

How should I use this stuff.. I mean.. Do any of you top sheiks use this kind of stuff at all.. And if you do, can you brief me a little... Do you use it more/all the time on low percents and how low? Is there any point to "autoSurvivalDi" (up and towards) at some percents while performing ground moves?

And most of all.. Should I do this at all or is this just plain stupid.. >_> (a.k.a. Should I learn to react and DI better, instead of inputting it by default/prediction)

 

[darkatma]

It's useful if you want to get cc grabs, such as when you miss a grab, they nair you (weak nair), and you cc grab.

or cc jabs into grabs when you're dashdancing/wavedashing

also doing double stick DI while performing laggy moves such as missed running grabs and downsmashes is usually to your advantage

 

[Teczer0]

I was gonna make a thread for this but since I have like 2 links I won't bother I guess lmao.

Just gonna share some of my random Sheik vids from No Johns.

Me vs G$
Me vs MacD <- I played Marth round 1, just fast forwarding to when I picked sheik.
Me vs Ridiculously good PC Chris <- Same deal, played Marth round 1

 

[ShroudedOne]

When you Shiek's use your up B, and your opponent is on the ledge, refreshing his invincibility, and trying to limit your options, do you kind of just take a guess and pray that they won't be covering where you want to recover? Sometimes, I see Shiek get the ledge right after someone gets off the ledge, sometimes they up B and get ledge hogged. Other times, they make it just barely onto the stage, or onto a platform. I'm just curious as to what goes on in a Shiek's head when they're using their up B. Seems like a bigger gamble than most recoveries.

 

[Mr Wizzrobe]

Sometimes you can kind of tell if you're going to make it, or if the opponent is merely trying to juke you into recovering on stage. Other times, yes, it is a gamble.

My decision usually depends on the character, their own percentage, and my percentage. If they're at higher percents (100%+), then their roll takes many more frames as well as their ledge get-up, so sometimes they'll abuse that to edgehog Sheik. However, if Sheik recovers onstage, the slower edge-roll gives her time to punish, and zero time for the edge-guarding character.

Overall, it's one giant mindgame, and whether you are successful or not depends on your opponents patterns and how well you're able to read them. Most of the time, though, I just go with my gut.

 

[Jolteon]

If they time it correctly, they can cover you going for the edge and also be on the edge quick enough to punish you poofing on stage.

Recovering with Sheik sucks.

 

[Roneblaster]

What are some sheik mains thoughts on FD vs falcon. I just had 3 players in the falcon boards say sheiks hate it, but i strike it vs sheik every time

 

[Teczer0]

I'm fine with going FD on falcons.

I just don't want to go to DL64

 

[SonuvaBeach]

I don't mind FD at all and counterpick there. The lack of platforms cuts the options that they can do out of a techchase and their possible approaches even more, making getting a hit --> death much easier

 

[gm jack]

I'm fine with going FD on falcons.

I just don't want to go to DL64

This. Strike DL64 and expect them to go FD. It's a good falcon stage, but managable as needles can cut out the dash dance and the lack of platforms can limit what remains of his mobility.

 

[Mr Wizzrobe]

This is dumb, but how does everyone feel about playing with a tag. I know Drephen always did, but it seems like nobody does anymore. Does it really make THAT big of a difference in recovery?

I dunno.

 

[Teczer0]

Tope still uses a tag pretty often. I don't think I ever saw him play without one actually.

I don't feel like it makes a huge deal. I just don't like using tags in tournament.

Its some completely unexplainable stupid thing I do.

 

[DualCats]

I'll only make an effort to use a tag if I know I'm being recorded.

 

[Ministry]

What are some sheik mains thoughts on FD vs falcon. I just had 3 players in the falcon boards say sheiks hate it, but i strike it vs sheik every time

i strike DL64 and expect fd, i dont mind it at all since hes gonna go FD or Battlefeild.

 

[Nedved]

Ok, I recorded few videos with a friend...

But we were very (very very) tired so it's probably the most awful set we've done in the last two months :/

You won't have to tell me my recoverys were awful, I know it, I don't know what I've done :/

Nedved(Sheik) - Yggdrasil(Marth)

By the way I won 3-0 but most of the time it was 3-2 :/
We're gonna record other matches, with a way better quality.

Thanks^^

 

[Mr Wizzrobe]

Someone is a fan of Norse mythology.

 

[Nedved]

Well it's more likely a fan of this than Norse mythology =)

 

[Kaffei]

Can someone give me tips on how to fight Falco on FD
...or how to fight Falco in general. Idk how to deal with lasers.

In brawl you can just PS / air dodge them so easily...

 

[ShroudedOne]

Well it's more likely a fan of this than Norse mythology =)

YESSSSSSSS, Tales of Symphonia! I thought of that when I read Yggdrasil the first time. I just fought him in battle yesterday, when Genis finds out that Mithos = Yggdrasil.

ToS = too good.

 

[Mr Wizzrobe]

Can someone give me tips on how to fight Falco on FD
...or how to fight Falco in general. Idk how to deal with lasers.

In brawl you can just PS / air dodge them so easily...

WD OoS, crouch, jump, etc. You'll get better at avoiding them the more you practice.

Oh, and try getting good at powershielding.

 

[Nedved]

ToS is pretty epic !

Kaffei : to deal with laser, try do short hop then fast fall to avoid some, crouch, etc...

To powershield them, just crouch then sheild. timing is easier it also works with Marth, Roy and some other character.
Also, never try to shield grab (it will most of the time not work) and roll away when he pressures you.

 

[Jolteon]

powershield, duck, wavedash oos, aerial oos, spaced aerials/jumps and needles.

 

[Mr Wizzrobe]

Just don't roll towards him and you're good. That's exactly what he wants.

 

[NewJerusalem]

Ok, I recorded few videos with a friend...

But we were very (very very) tired so it's probably the most awful set we've done in the last two months :/

You won't have to tell me my recoverys were awful, I know it, I don't know what I've done :/

Nedved(Sheik) - Yggdrasil(Marth)

By the way I won 3-0 but most of the time it was 3-2 :/
We're gonna record other matches, with a way better quality.

Thanks^^

Start to notice your enemies habits, every the Marth felt pressured he would try to double jump to safety.

Examples:

0:35 You stopped his game plan and he tried to reset the situation by jumping away. Chase him there! He has no jumps and near the edge. Pressure him until he cracks.

0:41 look at Marth after your dash attack. Double jumped again.

0:44 3 seconds later you Dtilted and he double jumped. Again...

1:04 After the dash attack you could've read the double jump and punished it.

2:16 Dtilt and guess what followed? Yeah Double jump.

3:28 Look at Marth, Look at Sheik, Look at Marth again then look at sheik. Your presence was pressuring the Marth to react. He feared getting hit and can you tell me how exactly he reacted? ........Double Jump.

The game isn't always about what you're doing wrong but your opponent too. Look out for habits in the situations you put him in. What does he do when you're close by? Does he grab alot? Spot Dodge? Roll? Spam attacks?

You roll inwards every time Marth throws you near edge. You telegraph your attacks too easily, eveytime you short hop or are 5 feet from the enemy you attack. You can get shield grabbed especially by Marth if you don't use safe moves or spacing on shield.

Does your opponent like to shield a lot when you jump at him? Learn the tomahawk (empty jump) to force in shield then grab. (don't abuse it though)

Also at low percents people can CC grab or attack so go for more grabs to damage, Safe Dsmashes and believe it or not the AAA jab combo. Free 30% on Crouch Cancel happy players.

Abuse needles.

Fix your habits, stay cool under pressure and look out for their habits.

Oh BTW:

1:24 the Marth mindgamed you twice here. He would hit you forwards, run that direction and wavedash back. That dash tricked you into thinking he was committing to moving where you were when he really wasn't. He got you twice. Watch out for those mindgames.
-KillerBee

 

[ChicknMonkey]

^this guy knows his ****

 

[Tope]

Tag POWAAAAAA

 

[*georgeH]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIIZ_pk9vqI&feature=channel_video_title

yeah i could really use a critique. i already know that my spacing sucks since it pretty much revolved around throwing random fairs and dash attacks, edgeguarding was pretty bad since i mostly threw needles hoping they'd hit or go for a down smash when he landed, and i probably should've wavedashed turnaround instead of the long animation after dashing. Im already effectively bringing in more bair and ftilt into my game which i think is a major improvement since this was taken, but i could use some more specific advice on how to improve.