Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

[Salevits]

How is the Sheik vs Peach matchup in PAL?

Way harder than in NTSC. > : (

What exactly do you want to know about the matchup?

 

[ShroudedOne]

Well, I know Peach is at a disadvantage in NTSC, but I was curious if Sheik still had the advantage in PAL or not. Just general information is fine, cause it's more of a curiosity than anything.

 

[Slhoka]

Well, I know Peach is at a disadvantage in NTSC, but I was curious if Sheik still had the advantage in PAL or not. Just general information is fine, cause it's more of a curiosity than anything.

In my opinion, it's either even, or Peach is slightly advantaged. Playing Peach in NTSC is actually a pleasure when you're a PAL player

Also, thank you for the answers about the Sheik/Samus team. I'll tell you if it worked or not (there may even be a livestream for those who have nothing to do during their saturday morgning/evening).

 

[ShroudedOne]

In my opinion, it's either even, or Peach is slightly advantaged. Playing Peach in NTSC is actually a pleasure when you're a PAL player

Also, thank you for the answers about the Sheik/Samus team. I'll tell you if it worked or not (there may even be a livestream for those who have nothing to do during their saturday morgning/evening).

Especially when you have a much better down throw to help out. I almost feel sorry for PAL Sheiks.

 

[Slhoka]

Especially when you have a much better down throw to help out. I almost feel sorry for PAL Sheiks.

Your reaction after landing a grab on a Peach at high percent in PAL :

Spoiler

Your reaction after landing a grab on a Peach at high percent in NTSC :

Spoiler

 

[KirbyKaze]

Peach Sheik in NTSC is boring for me.

I can't imagine what kind of nightmare PAL is.

 

[unknown522]

david, critique my match

 

[KirbyKaze]

Your Sheik is better than mine

You should be telling me what I did wrong. Oh wait you already did. Guess this conversation's already over

 

[unknown522]

wait, I did?

uh oh.

 

[KirbyKaze]

you mostly just said i was predictable and 4-stockable.

**

 

[Roneblaster]

Omfg kk, ur avatar is amazing. I miss dexters lab.

 

[darkatma]

bah i wish i could've recorded my matches with HMWs/Phil/Darrell Tonight.. so people could critique me..

I have trouble with careful foxes like HMW's.. I feel like I'm constantly getting outspaced.

 

[Strong Badam]

patience is necessary against fox with sheik. sheik vs. impatient fox is relatively easy but against a smart fox i feel like you really have to outplay them =(

 

[unknown522]

you mostly just said i was predictable and 4-stockable.

**

this guy...

 

[darkatma]

unknown i hella wanna play you to see why you **** sheiks

 

[ChicknMonkey]

So my friend is really good a DI-ing and that got me thinking about some of sheiks moves that if hit in a certain hitbox go the opposite direction (ex. fair). If someone could hook me up with the moves and even where the hitboxes are that screw with DI *****s that would be awesome.

 

[Teczer0]

So my friend is really good a DI-ing and that got me thinking about some of sheiks moves that if hit in a certain hitbox go the opposite direction (ex. fair). If someone could hook me up with the moves and even where the hitboxes are that screw with DI *****s that would be awesome.

If you mean like trick their DI, the easiest is if you're about to fair, ftilt or dair.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Just do inescapable DI-proof combos like me with dairs, uairs, u-tilts, dash attack, regrabs, tipped u-smash finishers, and other goodies. And do like 700% to them. It's more fun.

 

[Vaccine]

whats the difference between a jc grab and a boost grab?

 

[darkatma]

jc grab has less range and less lag time after (10 fewer frames of lag)

boost grab gives you extra range past a normal dash grab, and your grabbox gets lengthed because you are moving faster.

Something like that.

 

[Vaccine]

how do u boost grab?

 

[Jolteon]

Dash attack and then grab before the animation comes out.

 

[Vaccine]

wow i had no idea u could do that.

thanks

can every character do it?

 

[gm jack]

Yes, but sheik is the only one who really benefits from it, I think the spacies get a tiny boost and it is actually detrimental to a lot of characters.

It's based on the momentum gained in the dash attack not being lost even when the game accepts the grab input (which happens so people can use A and L/R to grab without frame perfect timing).

 

[Nedved]

Hello guys !
I come to get some advices from every Sheik players.

The fact is, I have a lot of trouble to plays against Marth and agressive Spacies.

In the case of Marth, I'm just very very stupid, but it can't be helped :/ I just don't know what I have to do :/
I'm trying a lot of things, to discover every option to cover all his moves.
But after a couple of weeks, well... it's slightly better than before, but my personnal match up is still 30-70 against Marth.

So, my question is : what sould I do ?
I mean, When Marth go for Dash dance to grab, which are my options ?
When i'm on the top platform of Battlefield, what should I do ?
...
There's a lot of things to cover :/
The fact is, when asking what should I do (as a sheik), 90% of the answers are "throw needles, grab, down throw, AFA". Yeah, I know. Thanks :/

Against aggressive spacies (Shine happy Falco for example), I'm pretty useless. I'm not as useless as I am against Marth, but Sheik should have pretty good stuff to **** these fox&falco


Sorry about my crappy english. If you need it, i can try to rewrite this, or just ask more precisely, or don't know :D Just need some piece of advices, like "When Marth goes for Shffl AFA, just WD Oos backward then dash JC-grab or dash attack" ; this kind of stuff.

Thanks guys^^

 

[-Vocal-]

Has anyone watched M2K's set again Mango from Genesis? He lost the set, but some of the **** he pulled in there made me cream my pants like an Asian school girl in an octopus aquarium

 

[Van.]

Hello guys !
I come to get some advices from every Sheik players.

The fact is, I have a lot of trouble to plays against Marth and agressive Spacies.

In the case of Marth, I'm just very very stupid, but it can't be helped :/ I just don't know what I have to do :/
I'm trying a lot of things, to discover every option to cover all his moves.
But after a couple of weeks, well... it's slightly better than before, but my personnal match up is still 30-70 against Marth.

So, my question is : what sould I do ?
I mean, When Marth go for Dash dance to grab, which are my options ?
When i'm on the top platform of Battlefield, what should I do ?
...
There's a lot of things to cover :/
The fact is, when asking what should I do (as a sheik), 90% of the answers are "throw needles, grab, down throw, AFA". Yeah, I know. Thanks :/

Against aggressive spacies (Shine happy Falco for example), I'm pretty useless. I'm not as useless as I am against Marth, but Sheik should have pretty good stuff to **** these fox&falco


Sorry about my crappy english. If you need it, i can try to rewrite this, or just ask more precisely, or don't know :D Just need some piece of advices, like "When Marth goes for Shffl AFA, just WD Oos backward then dash JC-grab or dash attack" ; this kind of stuff.

Thanks guys^^

vs. Marth comboing iz eazy (sorta)
0-31% you should regrab on DI away. at over that, probably dash attack on DI away
tilllll 'bout 65%, ya just fair on DI away
or maybe ftilt-fair on di away, because it sounds like it might work

0-20% up tilt on no DI, di in, carzy di. at above 20% uair non away DI. at 'bout 70% sweet spot dat upsmash on non away di to killl his weak ***. That prob doesn't work long after 100%
above 110 you can fresh uair uair on non away di and it should always killllllll

and throw needles

When he goes for DD grab... well, you shouldn't be letting him DD inside a range that you can't react to him running towards you. If he does, just slightly overshoot a dash attack on him.

Being on the top platform of battlefield is a bad place to be. You just have to wait until you can appear vulnerable, so he thinks he can get another uair but can't, or something like that, and then dash off the patform as he jumps up to fair. If he full hopped, you can prob then waveland off the lower platform and **** him.

Aggressive spacies just wait for them to run at you and shffl an aerial into shine, then WD back ftilt

 

[Tekk]

vs. Marth comboing iz eazy (sorta)
0-31% you should regrab on DI away. at over that, probably dash attack on DI away
tilllll 'bout 65%, ya just fair on DI away
or maybe ftilt-fair on di away, because it sounds like it might work

0-20% up tilt on no DI, di in, carzy di. at above 20% uair non away DI. at 'bout 70% sweet spot dat upsmash on non away di to killl his weak ***. That prob doesn't work long after 100%
above 110 you can fresh uair uair on non away di and it should always killllllll

Actually, none of this stuff works in PAL lol, which is the version we play with in france/europe

 

[darkatma]

@ guy who needs help with marth matchup
If you could perhaps record a few matches of yourself, we'd be able to help a lot more

 

[Van.]

Actually, none of this stuff works in PAL lol, which is the version we play with in france/europe

He doesn't have a location, so i assumed it was NTSC.

I have no idea what the PAL marth flowchart is.

Tho' he did say his english was crappy, so I guess it wouldn't have been that unreasonable to assume through next level deductive reasoning that he was from europe

but some NTSC countries don't speak english

 

[Tekk]

Basically the same as NTSC's except you have to tech chase him if he DI's your dthrow away.

 

[Van.]

so none of it works in PAL, except all of it works in PAL except that you have to tech chase if he DI's your dthrow away?
:/

 

[Tekk]

What I meant is: take away all the grab follow ups NTSC stuff, replace it with tech chasing, and you got the sheik marth PAL matchup.

 

[Van.]

^aaaahhhh ok gotcha

 

[-Vocal-]

Is it possible to gimp Marth at low percents out of a back throw near an edge? I'm playing around with a Lv1 CPU but can't seem to get it to work right. Am I mising something or is it just something where you need to wait for the other player to do something before you gimp him? Seems like it should be possible since it seems like Sheik an gimp anyone, but I could use a little help. Also, from 0%, is Dthrow>USmash>USmash an actual combo if the opponent has horrendous DI? Also, what about DThrow>USmash>Regrab?

Also, how often should I be boost grabbing and which situations is it most helpful in? And what makes jump-canceled grabs useful?

Man, that's a lot of questions if it's too much then feel free to only answer one or two

 

[Wake]

Annnythiiiiing is possible with horrendous DI

 

[Teczer0]

..... okay I'm in the smash mood so I'll answer I guess

Is it possible to gimp Marth at low percents out of a back throw near an edge? I'm playing around with a Lv1 CPU but can't seem to get it to work right. Am I mising something or is it just something where you need to wait for the other player to do something before you gimp him? Seems like it should be possible since it seems like Sheik an gimp anyone, but I could use a little help.

I suppose, I won't say its *impossible* but its incredibly difficult. Tbh, many gimps are guesses and the reason spacies get hit with it the worst is due to their fast fall speed. So they get hit, forced to firefox, etc. Marth though is pretty floaty and can defend himself fairly well in the air so it'll have to be from an extremely good read followed with a lot of fairs.

Also, from 0%, is Dthrow>USmash>USmash an actual combo if the opponent has horrendous DI? Also, what about DThrow>USmash>Regrab?

Double upsmash is pretty unreliable so I'm gonna go ahead and say no. Usmash > regrab might work at low percents.

Also, how often should I be boost grabbing and which situations is it most helpful in? And what makes jump-canceled grabs useful?

Man, that's a lot of questions if it's too much then feel free to only answer one or two

Boost grabs are great in tech chases, if you feel like you're late to react. I also use them vs dash dance camping if I have a good read but its a risk.

Jump cancel grabs are good because it ends with less lag then a dash grab in the event that you miss, the trade off is that dash grab has more range though so you miss out but usually the less lag is a better trade for the range.

 

[omgwtfToph]

Are JC grabs any faster than dash grabs for Sheik?

So, for chaingrabbing, should I be using JC grabs or dash grabs?

 

[Teczer0]

Start up wise I think its like 1 or 2 frames faster.

So, for CGing you should be dash grabbing if you're moving at all.

 

[Jolteon]

In PAL if marth DIs in you just treat it the same as you would for DI away in ntsc, if they DI away you tech chase. If they slight DI away then you have to walk forward ftilt because they can act before hitting the floor (meaning you can't tech chase them).

Also there's certain %s where you can dthrow dash attack on DI away for marth but I can't remember them lol, it's at 40~ iirc.