Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

[nicaboy]

Lmao um i dunno prob not. Havent played in tourney since like march although i wanna.

Sheik dittos are funny but i chain grab in friendlies and people call me gay for it.


I proceed to punch them in their face! <.<



jk jk

I dont gotta chain grab though <.<

 

[Van.]

nahh its aight I cg in friendlies too.



Especially against Roy.

EDIT: and bowser obv

 

[soap]

chain grabbing is fine all the time.

 

[Doser]

Could someone link me or tell me at what percents you can chain grab certain characters if they DI away and what is the maximum percent I can CG those characters.

Sorry if this is somewhere obvious but I don't see it readily.

 

[MuraRengan]

Last minute Sheik advice. Going to a tourney and I figure my biggest problem is against Falcos. A couple questions:

1. Is FoD a good CP? Because I like it against Falco.
2. What's the best way to relieve laser pressure?

Also, Doser, you're from New Orleans? Why don't I know you? Do you know about LasT? It's tomorrow in Baton Rouge.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Sheik's sh is really good at getting over lasers, and her shield game is actually really strong against him too.

 

[Bamesy]

Her shield game is broken. Keep that in mind all the time. :D

 

[Doser]

Last minute Sheik advice. Going to a routney and I figure my biggest problem is against Falcos. A couple questions:

1. Is FoD a good CP? Because I like it against Falco.
2. What's the best way to relieve laser pressure?

Also, Doser, you're from New Orleans? Why don't I know you? Do you know about LasT? It's tomorrow in Baton Rouge.

Sorry I'm from Nebraska, but I went to Tulane so I changed my region for that.

 

[gm jack]

FoD is a good stage for both sheik and falco. Chose it if you like it.

 

[MARaTHonman]

Hey. I just switched my main from Marth to Sheik and one of my favorite things about that is having a great projectile. I think I've been using the needles well, but I wanted to ask everyone the best ways to use them.

 

[Jolteon]

wd oos, powershield, crouch, spaced jumps and spaced aerials are all good ways to deal with lasers.

I feel that FoD is a good CP vs Falco, but the stage has advantages for both characters, if you're not comfortable with it I would cp DL64 or BF instead.

 

[Rush]

Beginner question: how do I stored needles, while grounded, without actually pulling my shield up? I always see it in matches but don't know how. I'm not referring to needle canceling.

 

[Teczer0]

Just press L/R when your needles are charged. Don't hold the shield button.

 

[FireFly]

It will become second nature when you practice it enough on the ground.

Teczero: would you say it's more of a 'quick' tap (speed) or a 'light' tap (sensitivity)? I don't even remember how I do it and I'm too lazy to turn on the game right now :|

 

[KirbyKaze]

Quick tap. You want the speed so you can get your Bair, double jump, etc. active in a timely manner. So you can do... stuff.

 

[FireFly]

Nicely put. The option of having to use more moves afterward is always great for pressure, edgeguarding, comboes, etc.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Oh wow I just assumed you guys were talking about air needles.

Ground needle store cancels?

Bleh, same answer honestly. It matters less how you do it with the grounded ones, though, because it's not a close range thing so there's less pressure to do it super fast (you shouldn't be using ground needles much vs super fast characters). And it can be advantageous to charge for a bit to see if they'll start charging in (or jump, etc.) off that so speed can be unnecessary.

 

[FireFly]

If a spacy is above the ledge charging Up + B, would it be wise to limit their options by charging grounded needles, then canceling at the last second and going for say, an up-air since they will be blocked by the path of the needles?

 

[KirbyKaze]

I would probably Fair or Bair (or F-tilt if I need speed) because they're more likely to not trade with the Firefox (Uair's hitbox is less overextended and isn't totally ridiculous).

But yeah that fake works sometimes. It's alright. Probably useful once or twice a set. Can make for some interesting 50/50 or 33/33/33 situations though, depending on their height.

 

[FireFly]

Oh man yeah I meant to say f-air instead of u-air, since fair is like... up in the air... yeah... sleep johns >_>

 

[KirbyKaze]

I hit people up all the time during edgeguarding. It's ****. They don't have their jump, so you can do a little combo that tacks on like 20-?? damage and then hit them back off.

I figure that if they DI my Uair, F-tilt, Dair, etc. outwards it's like they just had a good DI on a ledgehop Nair or something. And even then it's not a total waste because you can often combo to needles off that anyway and push them into a low recovery, etc. And low recoveries vs. Sheik are basically stock donations.

 

[Salevits]

How does Sheik's walljump actually work? o_o'

With younglink for example, the walljump always activates, no matter how long you're against the wall. You just tap away and hoozah.

With Sheik this is unfortunately not the case.. >_>

I can't figure out the logic behind sheik's walljump at all, so can someone please enlighten me.

e: And oh i play PAL if that matters.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I'd guess it has to do with aerial mobility. Sheik's aerial mobility / ability to retain momentum when airborne is bad whereas most of the other walljumpers don't face that handicap.

 

[ShroudedOne]

What does a Sheik have to fear from a Peach?

 

[mers]

How does Sheik's walljump actually work? o_o'

With younglink for example, the walljump always activates, no matter how long you're against the wall. You just tap away and hoozah.

With Sheik this is unfortunately not the case.. >_>

I can't figure out the logic behind sheik's walljump at all, so can someone please enlighten me.

e: And oh i play PAL if that matters.

It's actually the same as Ylink, or any other character that walljumps. It just seems trickier because it's harder to get Sheik up against the wall (lol). She has godawful horizontal air mobility.

 

[KirbyKaze]

What does a Sheik have to fear from a Peach?

Peach dash attack under / through aerials

Peach Nair or Bair under / through aerials

Trading with Peach's heavy moves

Approaching into float back Fair

Approaching into WD back down tilt

Shield pressure in general (FC aerial > grab can be rough if she tosses you onto a platform, down smash / down tilt pokes suck, etc)

Crouch cancel down smash

 

[ShroudedOne]

Peach dash attack under / through aerials

Peach Nair or Bair under / through aerials

Trading with Peach's heavy moves

Approaching into float back Fair

Approaching into WD back down tilt

Shield pressure in general (FC aerial > grab can be rough if she tosses you onto a platform, down smash / down tilt pokes suck, etc)

Crouch cancel down smash

Thanks, KK. I've have no practice against Sheik at all, and I might have to face some in tournament very soon. It helps to know what works, especially for such a hard MU.

 

[Salevits]

It's actually the same as Ylink, or any other character that walljumps. It just seems trickier because it's harder to get Sheik up against the wall (lol). She has godawful horizontal air mobility.

I have to disagree. Try this:

Go to fourside > Hang from the ledge of one of the two gaps

Drop down from the ledge by pressing away, then start holding towards the ledge

when you've reached like the middle of the gap, walljump

Keep holding to the direction of walljump, and let sheik fall to almost bottom holding towards that other wall

When you've reached almost bottom against the other wall, walljump.

IF sheik still now walljumps (probably not), repeat one more time and third time it wont. Even if you hold against the wall for like half a second.

Now.. Why..? >_> I don't get it. Feels like there like was some sort of counter that stops you from walljumping if you're against the wall for too long. However after a DOUBLE JUMP, you can walljump once without this problem..

Maybe this is just bad aerial mobility but I don't get how it all comes together.. Is the wall in fourside not straight or something?

 

[soap]

Thanks, KK. I've have no practice against Sheik at all, and I might have to face some in tournament very soon. It helps to know what works, especially for such a hard MU.

Loool nice strat.

I'm gonna go try this inthe fox boards

 

[-Vocal-]

Hey guys. I asked a bunch of question in the social but then the thought occurred to me that I should probably ask them here as well. So here goes!


I finally played someone who knows how to play Melee.

I got my **** kicked.

What in the heck am I supposed to do about Fox and Falco? I feel like if I don't get aggressive then they can just laser me to death (worse in Falco's case) and if I try to get offensive then I just eat shines to the face all day long. Also, what do I do to a Fox who repeated Dair/Shines my sheild? I feel like a lot of my retaliations were beat out by Shine. And how am I supposed to rack damage on a Falco? I tried tilts but the guy just crouch cancelled practically everything.

Also, how do I deal with CF's insane mobility and SH options?

 

[gm jack]

CF - he only has a lot of options at specific ranges, and most/all are beaten by one or all of ftilt, fair or bair. It's a match up I feel you need to play a lot to get the hang of, especially with all his weird movement.

Spacies - dealing with shield pressure is a matter of patience and practice. Your best options tend to be SH Nair, rolling or WDing OoS, though grabs can happen if you see them make a mistake. If they are doing their aerials late, then wait until after the shine to act. Conversely, if you see them hit your shield well before they can land, you should be able to hit them with a nair or escape before the shine can happen. So long as you trust your shield and keep your cool you should be fine.

Dealing with falco's lasers is a pain. Moving around them with platforms, jumps, dashing under high lasers, power shields and WDing out of shield takes a lot of practice. However, so long as you have experience in what lasers can do, you will find they aren't that great, though they do control a lot of the match up. Fox's lasers are just damage racking, so keep at a distance that if they start firing lasers, you can punish them for it.

Damage racking is tricky due to that crouch cancel. However, sheik's dthrow leads into a great tech chase where you can regrab repeatedly if your reflexes are good enough. That is a whole topic to itself though. In general, use needles, spaced aerials and grabs until they are out of crouch cancel percentages, when your options drastically open up.

 

[-Vocal-]

CF - he only has a lot of options at specific ranges, and most/all are beaten by one or all of ftilt, fair or bair. It's a match up I feel you need to play a lot to get the hang of, especially with all his weird movement.

Spacies - dealing with shield pressure is a matter of patience and practice. Your best options tend to be SH Nair, rolling or WDing OoS, though grabs can happen if you see them make a mistake. If they are doing their aerials late, then wait until after the shine to act. Conversely, if you see them hit your shield well before they can land, you should be able to hit them with a nair or escape before the shine can happen. So long as you trust your shield and keep your cool you should be fine.

Dealing with falco's lasers is a pain. Moving around them with platforms, jumps, dashing under high lasers, power shields and WDing out of shield takes a lot of practice. However, so long as you have experience in what lasers can do, you will find they aren't that great, though they do control a lot of the match up. Fox's lasers are just damage racking, so keep at a distance that if they start firing lasers, you can punish them for it.

Damage racking is tricky due to that crouch cancel. However, sheik's dthrow leads into a great tech chase where you can regrab repeatedly if your reflexes are good enough. That is a whole topic to itself though. In general, use needles, spaced aerials and grabs until they are out of crouch cancel percentages, when your options drastically open up.

Thanks. I'll try to keep this stuff in mind

 

[john!]

What in the heck am I supposed to do about Fox and Falco?

I feel like if I don't get aggressive then they can just laser me to death (worse in Falco's case) and if I try to get offensive then I just eat shines to the face all day long. Also, what do I do to a Fox who repeated Dair/Shines my sheild? I feel like a lot of my retaliations were beat out by Shine. And how am I supposed to rack damage on a Falco? I tried tilts but the guy just crouch cancelled practically everything.

Also, how do I deal with CF's insane mobility and SH options?

is always the answer

serious answer: from my limited knowledge of sheik, she uses platforms better than almost everyone else in the cast. they can help you avoid lasers and shield pressure and give you a mobility advantage.

as far as approaching, learn to space your aerials (particularly fair) so that if they hit a shield or cc, they can't be shined.

 

[MuraRengan]

Anybody care to tell me what I could've done better in this video? What should I be doing against Foxes?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYFsz_b8T7Y

I've got several other videos, but they're against players who I'm better than so critiquing them might not mean as much.

 

[Van.]

What do you guys think about hardcore ledgecamping peach?

I mean she hates the ledge, so you can **** her if she steals it from you.

 

[-Vocal-]

New question: Is Utilt safe on shield either in front or behind someone if both hits connect? Also, I've seen someone's sheik pull Utilt>Utilt>Grab on Falcon. Does this work on other characters? And does it only last for two Utilts?

And another question: often I see Sheiks use reverse needles to turn around and grab ledges, but how does this work? Whenever I try the animation lasts too long and Sheik falls past the ledge. Is there a way to cancel needles midair with throwing them that makes this work?

What do you guys think about hardcore ledgecamping peach?

I mean she hates the ledge, so you can **** her if she steals it from you.

This aint brawl and you aint MK

But no really I'd call that srs gheyness

Anybody care to tell me what I could've done better in this video? What should I be doing against Foxes?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYFsz_b8T7Y

I've got several other videos, but they're against players who I'm better than so critiquing them might not mean as much.

I'm fairly new myself but I can think of a couple things you could have done better.

A lot of times you use needles to edgeguard but remain on the ground to do so. If you jump and use the 45 degree angled needles, they would have most likely connected (like at 1:01 for example).

Get better at short hopping. You full hop a lot and it leaves you very open, especially on FD.

Going back to edgeguarding, if you've gotten someone off the stage and you're ledgehogging, don't forget that ledgehopped aerials can assure a kill. Look at 1:25, for example; if you had ledgehopped a Bair you could have kept Fox off the stage. It's best to keep all your options in mind.

That's all I've got to give. Now let the pros handle the more complex stuff ^_^

 

[gm jack]

Utilt is escapable between the two hits (via grab for example), but the last hit only leaves you -4 or something, so they have nothing which can't be avoided with a jab to interrupt, grabbing if they still shield etc.

Utilt can lead to grabs, but in this game, it is hard to guarantee anything. Their DI will matter a lot, so just take it if it happens. I've managed to combo 6 utilts in a row to fair on a marth thanks to spectacularly bad DI. Just abuse it when it happens, and prepare for good DI.

@MuraRengan

You didn't really grab at all. A huge amount of what you did could have been crouch cancelled, so watch it.

You threw needles too much when edge guarding in situations when they wouldn't work (a problem I can have). Your default against a fox should be to get off stage and hit them away. Needles should only be there for when you see them in the specific positions they can hit.

Inconsistent short hops and throwing out seemingly accidental uairs got you punished a lot, so watch your spacing and make sure you control your jump height.

 

[john!]

What do you guys think about hardcore ledgecamping peach?

I mean she hates the ledge, so you can **** her if she steals it from you.

yes... please stay on that ledge... go ahead...

 

[t3h Icy]

Quick question: When grabbing Falco and Falcon at low percents, what are the reasons not to Uthrow? Wouldn't it give Sheik a few extra frames due to a longer fall, despite there being more ending frames of Uthrow? And if so, wouldn't this allow a few small mix-ups instead of a techchase (say Utilt, perhaps Ftilt if they DI away, etc)? Thanks!

 

[-Vocal-]

Utilt is escapable between the two hits (via grab for example), but the last hit only leaves you -4 or something, so they have nothing which can't be avoided with a jab to interrupt, grabbing if they still shield etc.

Utilt can lead to grabs, but in this game, it is hard to guarantee anything. Their DI will matter a lot, so just take it if it happens. I've managed to combo 6 utilts in a row to fair on a marth thanks to spectacularly bad DI. Just abuse it when it happens, and prepare for good DI.

@MuraRengan

You didn't really grab at all. A huge amount of what you did could have been crouch cancelled, so watch it.

You threw needles too much when edge guarding in situations when they wouldn't work (a problem I can have). Your default against a fox should be to get off stage and hit them away. Needles should only be there for when you see them in the specific positions they can hit.

Inconsistent short hops and throwing out seemingly accidental uairs got you punished a lot, so watch your spacing and make sure you control your jump height.

Thanks broseph