Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

[soap]

you should do it the same on every level

 

[Jolteon]

yeah it's just the same as normal.

 

[Kaffei]

how do i do the sexy invincible stall like mew2king?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByzU3xpKUPs#t=07m18s

yo just press back VERY SLIGHTLY then tilt up so you input up b
then you tilt down like 50% of the way and ull grab the ledge

repeat

just spam it 9999999999x for 4 hours straight that's what i did and it's super ez now

 

[Pikaville]

I powershielded a sick turnip against my friends Peach FTW earlier today :3

 

[Jolteon]

Does anyone have extensive experience with Luigi in the PAL version? I'm not really sure on how to approach the match-up. Waveshielding is really effective vs needles with Luigi and empty hop grabs are cool but don't really do much, so I'm finding it difficult to keep Luigi pinned down in his shield and keeping control of center stage. My best bet so far has just been keeping him off stage a lot and edge guarding so he's easier to kill/hit, but I feel like I'm playing the match-up wrong.

 

[gm jack]

Just play the "I'm the better character" game and spend the entire day out ranging him with aerials and tilts, in the same way you'd do to Mario (I assume you've played j3ly a few times).

The trouble here is that Luigi has much greater ground mobility. On the flip side, his air mobility is shocking. So if you play it safe and don't throw out stupid tilts, you should be able to control the stage and put pressure on by never committing in a neutral situation.

 

[Jolteon]

I'm pretty strong at the mario matchup, just not against luigi for some reason lol, his ground movement is really awkward for me.

 

[DualCats]

Luigi can get those sneaky dsmashes that can be pretty frustrating. >__< I have no PAL experience but charged needles can be effective for really discouraging his zany wavedash approaches. Otherwise, I like to camp platforms. Particularly the top platform (if there is one) because Luigi's approach when you're up there will be pretty telegraphed. Obvz, you probably shouldn't try to out-prioritize him. If you find yourself in need of actually, legitimately approaching, use bair. A lot. So many bairs that people will be like "Damn, that's a lot of bairs" and you can be like "Really? I . . . BAIRLY NOTICED." Then no one will laugh and it will be awkward for a very long time. True story.

also, you should try to avoid nairs except as a last-second tech-chase option or if you're edgeguarding and have ledge-invincibility. Bairs and Uairs will probably be your most useful aerials in this matchup.

Generally, if Luigi is above you, that's terrifying and you can get dair'd/nair'd BUT you can actually bait this sort of behavior and punish with a bair.

Any time Luigi is not near you should be spent charging needles and putting yourself in an advantageous stage position.

If you are above Luigi, it's usually better to resist the urge to come down with a nair/bair (unless you think you're really sneaky about it.) imo, it's better to get out of there and focus on gaining better positioning. If you can come down with a needle storm, that's lovely. <3

Luigi's fair can be pretty nasty but as long as you're mindful of that possibility, you don't have much to fear. I'm fairly certain that Sheik's comes out first. It is, however, not an easy move to bait in my experience.

Also, try not to string together a bunch of tilts unless you're really confident you can hit with it. Luigi's nair is too goddamn fast.

I hope this is advice that works for PAL. D:

 

[Teczer0]

^^^^ that is overall pretty good advice.

Only thing that I personally do differently is that I stay grounded. Sheik protects herself far better on the ground than in the air, and in my experience its just not a good place for sheik to be.

On stages like battlefield I only use platforms to run away hahaha.

Also I find shield grabbing Luigi to be reaaaaally good, like sorta dumb good. His aerials don't have incredible range so running shields work wonders. Don't challenge Luigi imo, its pretty much never worth it. Just react accordingly and make sure you play safe.

Needle often too, it hampers their movement game, stay away from platforms so you don't get like surprised by waveland off dair or something random. And don't be scared to fair luigi when he tries to recover, just make sure you wait so you don't get hit by a random misfire.

 

[Jolteon]

Thanks, I'll try out this stuff later. ^^

 

[DualCats]

Good luck, Jolteon.

Out of curiosity, can anyone recommend any spiffy Sheik vs. Fox videos?

 

[Teczer0]

Good luck, Jolteon.

Out of curiosity, can anyone recommend any spiffy Sheik vs. Fox videos?

Amsah vs *insert fox player here*

Seriously so soooo good.

I'd recommend Tope vids too and obviously m2k.

I don't have any in specific but those are always good players to go to imo.

EDIT: Here's one I like:

[yt]k5YoZV3NG3o[/yt]

Also that first edgeguard Amsah tried to do does work, but he had to delay the timing of his nair because Lovage dropped so low.

 

[DualCats]

Sexcellent. Thank you, sir. :3

 

[Walt]

Lucien Vs Lucky as GSG1 is hella good too.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Haley all i know is in that video jman did an amazing moonwalk waveland edgehog to missing the uair kill xD

 

[gm jack]

I'd disagree with using people like Amsah as an example, because so much of what he does is down to him being so much smarter than nearly everyone he plays. He can read people to such a high degree that he does stuff that would be unsafe for most people.

I'd say Lucien and KirbyKaze would be much better example of what people can do, they don't have such a huge skill gap to most of the good fox players.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

People have their own styles, thats true, but that doesnt mean you cant learn from a stylized approach. I really like how amsah spaces on the stage, he is really comfortable behind his fair which is something not many other shieks do anymore.

 

[gm jack]

It isn't the style that's the problem. It's that it all relies on having a good read on your opponent, which while is obviously a great thing to have, very few people can do consistently.

The 2nd tier sheiks (the great ones that aren't m2k or amsah) have to play a much safer game and do things in a more textbook fashion, which I think is better to learn from. Yes, it's great to watch amsah beating everyone and there are a lot of points you can take from it (I love his retreating fairs and they work really well for me), but if most people try to copy his style, they will not do nearly as well.

I think a really clear example is the way m2k and amsah tech chase. Which really isn't that much, that well in comparison to people like tope. However, they are so much better at reading people they can get enough grabs and punishes any way, despite not going for what I would call the optimal strategy.

 

[soap]

just freestyle it like kdj awww ya

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Oh KDJ what a goon

I see where you're coming from, but to say that very few people can do it is a hyperbole. Everyone has reads, thats just how it works. If you want to make your style defensive thats your choice and your approach to the game and theres nothing wrong with that. If you want to be aggressive then theres nothing wrong with that either. It really comes down to your style.

 

[soap]

I've been reading since kindergarten baby

 

[Jolteon]

@DualCats: Thanks. ^^

I think watching Amsah gives a really good idea of how to control space on a stage, and also good situations of when to empty hop, I guess you're right though that he gives this illusion that Sheik's forward air is super safe because he's so smart.

 

[Ministry]

I'd disagree with using people like Amsah as an example, because so much of what he does is down to him being so much smarter than nearly everyone he plays. He can read people to such a high degree that he does stuff that would be unsafe for most people.

I'd say Lucien and KirbyKaze would be much better example of what people can do, they don't have such a huge skill gap to most of the good fox players.

the majority of Foxes just don't know how to play well vs top level sheiks....

i would disagree that saying amsah is so much smarter then kirbykaze or lucien is vs spacies. he may do well vs fox players but he would still get wrecked by unknown just like every other sheik would.

 

[Beat!]

Unknown is hella legit, but I want to see that happen before I believe it.

 

[leffen]

the majority of Foxes just don't know how to play well vs top level sheiks....

i would disagree that saying amsah is so much smarter then kirbykaze or lucien is vs spacies. he may do well vs fox players but he would still get wrecked by unknown just like every other sheik would.

lmfao get real, amsah is on a WAY higher level than kirbykaze (no placing 3rd once doesnt mean ****, look at kage) and esp lucien lol.


and the thing is, amsah plays way to much on reads which causes him to miss a lot guaranteed **** but also allows him to play like he does.

 

[soap]

unknown certainly does **** sheik

but ya I still gotta see that happen to believe it

 

[FireFly]

Serious question but what determines the CPU transformation? Is it fully random? I noticed that when I stay above Sheik/Zelda they tend to transform more often.

 

[KirbyKaze]

lmfao get real, amsah is on a WAY higher level than kirbykaze (no placing 3rd once doesnt mean ****, look at kage) and esp lucien lol.

while i don't deny amsah is better than me.

i'd note he also kind of pulled a kage what with his 3rd then drop to 9th.

i don't really think amsah is that good to watch vs foxes except for his neutral game, though. he doesn't really try to abuse sheik's gayness that much (her offstage potential especially). he's really good with needles though.

unknown would probably beat him btw.

 

[gm jack]

To be fair, at P5, Amsah got PP (who beat everyone) and Hax (who ***** sheiks). That said, Amsah doesn't really know the Falcon match up because there are only one or two note worthy falcons in the whole of europe, and none of them that spring to mind are dutch.

That said, I agree he isn't that good at the fox match up. Zgettos give him serious trouble at times.

 

[_Rocky_]

then you consider that zgetto is one of the worst sheik slayers in the world

 

[KirbyKaze]

To be fair, at P5, Amsah got PP (who beat everyone) and Hax (who ***** sheiks). That said, Amsah doesn't really know the Falcon match up because there are only one or two note worthy falcons in the whole of europe, and none of them that spring to mind are dutch.

I had to play PP the one time I got third. Shortly after, everyone said Amsah was going to **** the balls off him. Nice one, Euro-fanboys. I'll concede that PP got better after RoM3 but it's still somewhat amusing to me how that turned out backwards.

Is Europe going to matchup john every time their one of their pro player loses to someone? It's kind of getting old.

FTR I have a lot of respect to Amsah. He's also clearly better than me, which is easy to see when you compare who we beat and lost to at the tournament we were both at. It does, however, bother me when his fanboys make kind of stupid claims about me being worse because I pulled Kage when Amsah has, in all seriousness, pulled one too.

If you're gonna say he's better than me, at least do it properly by observing how he doesn't get hit as easily, how he corners people more effectively, and how he controls space well. Point out his needles. Say he beat people I lost to (Cyrain, probably others).

>__>

 

[leffen]

while i don't deny amsah is better than me.

i'd note he also kind of pulled a kage what with his 3rd then drop to 9th.

jesus, americans with their ****ing ignorance over anything that isnt USA. Amsah has consistently dominated for ~4 years now...

oh and i'd like to see unknown vs him

 

[omgwtfToph]

jesus, americans with their ****ing ignorance over anything that isnt USA.

I hope I'm not the only person who sees the irony in describing KirbyKaze, a Canadian, in this manner.

 

[Ministry]

lol ignorance. more like irony. Should i generalize and say all Europeans think all North Americans are Americans? or would that be ignorant?

and m2k didn't take one game off unknown in friendlies at p5 with sheik. and m2k doesn't like to lose or sandbag...

 

[KirbyKaze]

I think leffen is mostly just salty because he was probably one of the people that was convinced that after I beat PP, Amsah would thoroughly trounce him. And then Amsah didn't trounce him at all...

At any rate, I'm lazy right now. I don't feel like searching up the sets where Amsah has lost to Zgetto, nor do I feel like looking up Amsah's posts explaining how despite his losses to Zgetto he still feels Fox vs Sheik is fair and Zgetto is just really gay (and anti-Amsah). Admittedly, this was a little while ago but I'm fairly sure it took place within the last four years or so. And if his four years of dominance starts before that, then I don't care because as far as I'm concerned, pre-2007 is definitely outdated. Also, Armada never loses to Amsah in PAL, which also makes it difficult for me to take "Amsah consistently dominated" seriously.

 

[john!]

I hope I'm not the only person who sees the irony in describing KirbyKaze, a Canadian, in this manner.

you aren't, but it won't stop most europeans from being douchey *****es towards anyone across the pond.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

jesus, americans with their ****ing ignorance over anything that isnt USA. Amsah has consistently dominated for ~4 years now...

oh and i'd like to see unknown vs him

I'm passing this man the Morton's.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Beat!]

What's with the hostility, guys?

KK *****. Amsah *****.

nuff' said

 

[soap]

Unknown beat Drephen 3-1 at a michigan tourney last year sometime

just throwin that out there (fuel the hype flame)

 

[Twin_A]

I agree with Beat!. KK ***** face, Amsah ***** face. both are great in their own ways.

However I'm better than both of them and will prove it at Genesis, get at me (seriously that would be sick. But we all know the sad truth )

<3