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Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

gm jack

Smash Lord
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Unless you play PAL. Then bair all day. If they float a lot, you do have to respect it, but remember that her fair is quite slow, so you may be able to run her and hit her first if they get predictable.

It's just a bit like jiggs when they tend to punish you much harder than you punish them, so you have to play the spacing game until you can finish them off.
 

KirbyKaze

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Sheik first hits Peach better than vice versa. This is offset by the fact that Peach has ARRRMADA!

Usually I just troll Peach into jumping and then hit her. If she wants to compete in ground game then I'm also okay with that because Peach's ground game secretly isn't that hard to deal with. You just sort of mentally note all the things you can't punish on block and then continue to play conservatively. While Fairing or Bairing when appropriate. WD back needles on things you can't legitimately punish (like spaced F-smash or D-tilt or whatever) is really, really annoying.
 

soap

Smash Hero
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recovery, and some people are actually really good with zelda and can throw a curveball at you.

Cosmo was winning tournies/placing high with zelda exclusively, but he also sheik dittoed some people. He's got two characters essentially for his double blind.
 

gm jack

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Some stages, a lightning kick may be able to kill a missed rest better than a charged upsmash (near the edges of Fod, which is tall and narrow maybe?).
 

MuraRengan

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Derp, I'm so confused as to how Sheik is supposed to deal with Falco's laser approaches. All tha Falco's I've played against laser camp until I'm forced to jump. Jumping almost always results in an aerial being shielded into shine combos, or (if I choose not to attack) I fall back and have to take more laser punishment. I'm not quite sure what the right approach is to getting close to Falco without Falco already having the upper-hand.
 

Fortress | Sveet

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move around lasers in other ways. Powershield and respace with a WD (possibly approaching behind the laser), dash attack under some, sh bair/fair over some. Waveland on platforms.

Don't panic when your shield is under pressure, wait until there is a gap in shield stun and wavedash or nair.
 

gm jack

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You you are getting shined out of shield for hitting his shield, you need to try and space a bit further away. Sheik definitely out ranges falco on a move to move basis. Power shielding is also great because, as well as giving you openings to approach, even semi consistent power shielding can really force a falco to stop spamming lasers so much, giving you a lot more room to work with.
 

xbombr

Smash Ace
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Derp, I'm so confused as to how Sheik is supposed to deal with Falco's laser approaches. All tha Falco's I've played against laser camp until I'm forced to jump. Jumping almost always results in an aerial being shielded into shine combos, or (if I choose not to attack) I fall back and have to take more laser punishment. I'm not quite sure what the right approach is to getting close to Falco without Falco already having the upper-hand.
Turn into Zelda and rage spam neutral b until he stops.
 

soap

Smash Hero
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You you are getting shined out of shield for hitting his shield, you need to try and space a bit further away. Sheik definitely out ranges falco on a move to move basis. Power shielding is also great because, as well as giving you openings to approach, even semi consistent power shielding can really force a falco to stop spamming lasers so much, giving you a lot more room to work with.
this.

space fair/bair on his shield and then continue to pressure with a tilt or perhaps dash dance away.

dash attack under high lasers, short hop over low ones. u gotta be crafty.
 

gm jack

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If you have almost perfect power shielding, I feel that FD could be a good stage for sheik, as falco will lose a load of mobility and his lasers won't be able to create that many openings if your power shielding is on point.

Until then, I like DL, BF and FoD too.
 

Fortress | Sveet

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Nobody around here really does it, but there are some advanced anti-powershielding strategies that really scare me LOL
 

ArcNatural

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Nobody around here really does it, but there are some advanced anti-powershielding strategies that really scare me LOL
I don't see how this is possible. If you treat the act of powershielding as you were just normal shielding a typical Falco laser I don't see how anti-powershielding is possible.

If your at the level where you can powershield consistently and your getting baited from them, your just making mistakes, because you still have the upper hand. As the inherent advantage you get from powershielding as opposed to shielding is that you get more options.

You need to elaborate on this.
 

Fortress | Sveet

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I'm just afraid of them because I don't have experience against them haha

stuff that zhu brags about, like powershielding the powershield, and specifically aiming lasers to be jumped over (essentially baiting a powershield).
 

gm jack

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Those tend to happen at spacings where you were screwed by either just a normal shield or getting hit instead anyway. If they see you can PS, they may try to bait it so as to give them an opening, but if your positioning is good and you don't get predictable with your actions after PS, I don't see how it is better for them to get PS than anything else.
 

omgwtfToph

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From the Falco point of view, though, and as someone who does both of the above (timing a shield to try to re-powershield lasers, and timing short hops so I jump over powershielded lasers) fighting Sheiks who powershield is a lot more difficult than Sheiks who don't, because as soon as it's established they're good at powershielding the whoooole approach has to change, lol.

Not to mention, the main goal of powershielding isn't so much to hit Falco with his own laser, but to shield the laser and maintain a level of control over what's going on. Even if you miss the timing on the powershield but still shield the laser, you're still in a position where you can WD OOS and not get utterly locked down.
 

ArcNatural

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I'm just afraid of them because I don't have experience against them haha

stuff that zhu brags about, like powershielding the powershield, and specifically aiming lasers to be jumped over (essentially baiting a powershield).
Not true, the doublepower shield is interesting, but powershield lasers to jump over gives no inherent advantage unless you expect something from the powershield.

Doing it vs a Fox who shines gives Falco and advantage due to the lag created from the shine reflect. Powershielding gives no lag that you should already be considering. And since your Sheik you have significant OOS options that many characters do not have that also increase the risk.

You can PS to dash attack/wavedash back/forward grab/jab/dsmash.

I can understand being afraid of people who are used to opponents powershielding so the advantage you get form powershielding isn't as significant, but it certainly doesn't hurt Sheik in anyway to PS something you were going to originally just shield.

I play with players who can PS incredibly well (attacks and projectiles) and I can also PS pretty well. It's reached the point where I'm sure we basically can react to doing a powershield pretty well. I feel like if you reach that point, you will be watching their response to the powershield anyway and you won't have this problem.

I guess the key is to not rely on PS as a crutch to save you from the matchup. It's just another tool, and you should expect Falco's especially to have at least some ideas of what to do when they are getting constantly powershielded. It's only natural that good players have learned to compensate and that brings another level of strategy to the game.

Although, doing empty sh pretending to laser and shieldgrabbing is lulz, again it's just a response to them conditioning you to PS, just recognize and adapt.
 

Fortress | Sveet

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Yeah thats all true, like i said my fear is unreasonable because i have no experience with it. I also mentioned jumping over the laser as a punish because i commonly approach behind my powershielded lasers.
 

gm jack

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However, if you mix it up with a WD back OoS, and they try to follow up the PS by jumping over it, they should then fall short of whatever they were planning which you can then punish.

Anyway, this is all theory craft, because not many people PS consistently, and even fewer falcos actually try to bait and punish it. How important it is and the options will become more clear once it actually starts happening (which at the rate people are learning to PS shouldn't be too long if falco's want to keep up).
 

Ministry

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when you back throw fox at a ledge at low% and he jumps up/air dodges up are there any airel options that sheik can do that are safe since he gets out of hit stun fast enough to sweet spot illusion and put u in danger because of position.

I know options include charging up smash(what i normally do out of back throw) or wait and grab or dsmash.

only thing iv come up with is the m2k, where u run off and empty shorthop back onstage then react.

i just have trouble when i go for an ariel and they just sweetspot illusion right away, is there any safe ariels at low % to do or is it just not worth it asuming he will illusion.?
 

Jolteon

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yes

auto cancel bair and run off nair back on the stage gives you enough time to do stuff to them after an air dodge

m2k's empty hop thing is something i find really effective as well since you can react to their illusion/jump if they don't air dodge and hit them.

run off rising aerial beats illusion as well, so does reverse needle
 

gm jack

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It is really hard to cover everything though, and no one option can cover it all.

So long as you got back onto stage safely before they can (DJ nair to the stage etc), you can pressure them while they are on the ledge, and make it really hard for them to get back to a safe position.
 

Fortress | Sveet

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what can sheik really do to beat double jump sweetspot after a bthrow at low percents? Is she able to take the edge before them?

Also, i beat dart with sheik this weekend. Lost to his marth game 1, beat it game 2, then beat his fox game 3 on stadium.
 

gm jack

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I find it works fine vs falco unless they DI the bthrow up and then don't have to dj for the side b.

Sheiks nair will not trade or be beaten by a side B once the hitbox is out, so a weak nair is safe and puts them low without a jump to allow you to fair them for the kill.
 

Fortress | Sveet

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But usually that relies on fast falling low so they DJ into your nair, at low percents do you have time to do that before they can sweetspot their dj?
 

soap

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I can just wavedash fastfall edgehog after a bthrow usually. If you steal it just right its a really easy gimp.
 

SonuvaBeach

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Also, i beat dart with sheik this weekend. Lost to his marth game 1, beat it game 2, then beat his fox game 3 on stadium.
Nice, Dart's marth messed my sheik up :(. All my shady practice will help next time. When he switched to fox I bet you were ecstatic, I know I would be.
 

gm jack

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I think it has more to do with, if Falco decides to doublejump back to the stage with a dair, you die.
If you watch where people DI after the Bthrow, it often gives a good clue as to how they will recover. If they are trying to stay close to the stage, dj to the edge, dair and air dodge are quite likely. However, if they are trying to create distance, up or side b gets more probable.
 

Fortress | Sveet

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Nice, Dart's marth messed my sheik up :(. All my shady practice will help next time. When he switched to fox I bet you were ecstatic, I know I would be.
Nah, dart's fox beats kels' sheik so I wasn't expecting to win it. I happen to only practice sheik against spacies though so I guess i knew the match-up a little better than him. Went to last stock >100% each and we were both choking a bit lol. In the end I got the ftilt and sealed the deal.
 

CommonerCoffee

Smash Rookie
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Feb 26, 2009
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New York City
Need massive help on the Link matchup.
Specifically, what to do when I'm on the edge. I find myself rolling and eating an upb all day and teching it since it seems like the safest option once over 100%.

I can't seem to get my chaingrab on Link down either. Anyone got info on that?

Also, general tips against Link would be much appreciated.
 

Ministry

Smash Ace
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go to training mode and practice the chaingrab, set the coumputer to evade.

the roll thing is just a habbit, u have to switch those things up yourself
 
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