Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

[MuraRengan]

I need a bit of Sheik advice. I'm starting to run into the problem of not being able to safely rack up damage. In particular, my opponents have been CCing my hits in order to capitalize with a stronger trade. In most situations, by the time I've gotten them to a percentage where they can't CC anymore, I'm within kill percentages. As a result, I always die about 40-50% before my opponents, but I can take their stock fairly easily afterward.

What should I be doing to avoid CC trades, or (in general) what should be my approach for racking up damage to about 40%?

 

[SPAWN]

I need a bit of Sheik advice. I'm starting to run into the problem of not being able to safely rack up damage. In particular, my opponents have been CCing my hits in order to capitalize with a stronger trade. In most situations, by the time I've gotten them to a percentage where they can't CC anymore, I'm within kill percentages. As a result, I always die about 40-50% before my opponents, but I can take their stock fairly easily afterward.

What should I be doing to avoid CC trades, or (in general) what should be my approach for racking up damage to about 40%?

Grabbing is really good. That can usually get you to ~40% depending on character of course. Aerials are also really good because they come out so quick and if they cc it's not like you have a ton of lag afterwards. Camping needles is really good as well, I'm not sure what your style is. Dsmash/tilts aren't very good if they just keep cc'ing it and then hitting you a lot. If the tilts are spaced far enough you should be fine in a decent amount of scenarios.

If you ever get around to recording I'm sure you'd get a better response.

 

[soap]

If you hit with the tip of bair you are generally very safe from counterattack in most situations. Fair is good as well as long it's done very low.

 

[Ministry]

soap and spawn covered all of it

grab is the best bet

needles for dmg

spaced bair

but to answer you're question. I think working on you're spacing in general will help you get hit less and hit them more.

again though, its would be easier with videos.

 

[MuraRengan]

I've got a couple of videos from this weekend.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi0Gp8VEqJ0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Tr1amO5ApM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA7ZKQ1KROs

These are all friendlies, none of my tournament videos were recorded. None of these really illustrate the CCing issue I've been facing, since this opponent didn't do it very much, but regardless I think these show me playing at my best. Please excuse the hiss, my recorder decided to record all the matches at super low volume, and I hat to do magic to make it audible.

 

[Ministry]

try to save your double jump and recover a bit higher instead of dropping down so much.
you get shine gimped a lot. You can bait their gimp and double jump fair/nair if u time it right and put them in danger.

abuse dash attack and uptilt when fox is above you and not doing DAIR. there were a lot of time when u had a clean chance and could of combo ed out of it.

DI the dairs behind and it will stop that string.

 

[xbombr]

I've got a couple of videos from this weekend.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi0Gp8VEqJ0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Tr1amO5ApM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA7ZKQ1KROs

These are all friendlies, none of my tournament videos were recorded. None of these really illustrate the CCing issue I've been facing, since this opponent didn't do it very much, but regardless I think these show me playing at my best. Please excuse the hiss, my recorder decided to record all the matches at super low volume, and I hat to do magic to make it audible.

I'd say some things to work on would be using less DAir, especially against a fast character like Fox who can be annoying to punish.

Also, some work on the ledge game might help too. Ledge hop UAir isn't exactly that threatening or safe of an option. Her WD from the ledge is really fast and mostly covered by invincibility frames if you can get the timing down. Maybe try to work on that if you've got some spare time.

I think you should also Dthrow more. Try to set up some more grabs and use needles more. Needles, in addition to doing damage, can help set up for some easy grabs. I saw a lot of upthrows in the second video. It's not bad against a fast-faller, but I think it's easier to chase off of the dthrow.

Another tech chase tip. I saw you predict/react to a tech in place and punish with Dsmash a couple times. Dsmash isn't bad if you're near a ledge and you're trying to get him off the stage for a gimp, but since you were in the middle of the stage, you could have tried upsmashing or regrabbing since they have a lot more potential for chaining into other moves.

Finally, a general gameplay tip would be to save your double jump, especially as Sheik. Since if you get knocked offstage without it, your recovery becomes extremely predictable and even more punishable than it already is. I think I saw you get punished for using it a few times when it wasn't needed.

Also, you mentioned getting CC'd a lot and it being tough to deal with. Tech chasing/chain grabbing the low %'s with dthrow solves most of the problem depending on what you're playing against. I know that's a pretty gay strat for friendlies though.

 

[SPAWN]

People already critiqued so I'm not going to bother unless you want me to lol.

Post some videos where you're having troubles vs cc'ing etc and i'll critique that. I want to see what the issues are.

 

[stelzig]

I've seen sheiks hit fox out of his UpB with ftilt a couple of times, but whenever i try it, I always trade hits. When ftilt trads with upb is it because of timing too early/late or is it just the angle of the UpB?

 

[soap]

I only ftilt if they go to high and I generally wait till the move is over and they ever so slightly begin the descent

 

[ChicknMonkey]

I was intrigued with Falcons moonwalking and it made me wonder if it was even possible with shiek and what would it be used for. Can anyone clarify this.

 

[WHA?]

I was intrigued with Falcons moonwalking and it made me wonder if it was even possible with shiek and what would it be used for. Can anyone clarify this.

haha ok i saw a lovage vid where he was playing against a sheik and he moonwalked (pretty far for a fox). He moonwlaked behind the sheik n grabbed her.........
So, it got me thinking that maybe sheik can do the same
but i cant moonwalk for shiz, n if ur in the same boat as me i think it would be a waste of time to try to learn it with sheik

id link u to the vid but i dont remember who was the sheik lovage played...... i know it was on FD for sure though.......

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I know Mango once did Moonwalk ----> bair against Armada in a friendly with Fox.

I was like O.O at how far Fox went with his moonwalk.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Jolteon]

if you ftilt and trade with up+b it means that you haven't used enough of your range (i.e. you did it too late).

 

[Vaccine]

can somebody give me some good tips on the sheik samus match up like how to pressure her, good mix ups and what to look out for. oh and stages that r in sheiks favor. and stages to band.

 

[Kaffei]

can somebody give me some good tips on the sheik samus match up like how to pressure her, good mix ups and what to look out for. oh and stages that r in sheiks favor. and stages to band.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNId4lwcSBM

lol idk but that vid is entertaining

 

[KirbyKaze]

Against Samus you mostly space Fair and get grabs. Needles into grab is effective too.

Shield crap and then punish accordingly. Every now and then jump or wavedash back out of shield when she can't feasibly hit you with a tilt and you'll sometimes dodge her grapple and get a free punish. Just make sure to time it decently so you don't get hit by her shield pressure follows and you'll be fine.

Pressuring her in block (since all other pressure is just spacing Fair or other high-range aerials, baiting poor CC decisions, and grabbing them) is mostly just whether or not you think they'll Up+B or move back or similar when you go in for a grab. Otherwise you just space aerials. Don't d-smash her shield. I forget how tilts work against Samus's shield but I usually just jump around them and stuff when they're blocking or wait because she has a harder time with that sort of thing.

Beyond that just don't do weak moves to her when she's on the ground. Refrain from d-smashing Samus at super low percents, tilting her, jabbing her, etc.

F-tilting through a Firefox is 100% timing and positioning. If you meet those requirements, your tilt will win. If you don't, you'll lose or trade. It's not a bad strategy but it's generally obsoleted in actual matches by Sheik's numerous edgeguard tools that are easier and involve ledge invincibility or her gigantic Bair (sometimes both!). I generally use it to cover the sweetspot angles when they're above the edge. But even for that use it's often outclassed in match-situations by jumping off and hitting them with Fair or other stuff (needles sometimes).

 

[Vaccine]

thanks dude

 

[gm jack]

The match up is annoying, but even in PAL without all the grab combos, so long as you let her control you with her CC and projectile bs, you should be fine. If they have a charge shot and you are at kill percents, it isn't a problem so long as you can think of yourself as the Samus and see what they can do to try and land it. Be wary of her projectiles, but if you let them control what you do, you are going to be put in a lot of bad situations.

 

[KirbyKaze]

tl;dr just "better character" them. Be aware Samus is a tricky one and don't fall for her bull**** crouch cancel, shield game, etc.

It's like what we do to low tiers. Only we don't have a chain grab for this one.

 

[Vaccine]

thanks guys!
i was originally asking for my friend who mains sheik but he changed his main to fox yesterday lol
i dont think this information waste cause im thinking about picking up sheik as my secondary just cause i want to be crazy technical with her =)

 

[DJMirror]

Hello


Kira want to ask this since his account got banned


"Does sheik have any grabs that's good at breaking up Ice Climbers or that has good invincibility?"

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Probably fthrow. Unsure about dthrow and uthrow. Unlikely that bthrow will do anything. They all have the same amount of invincibility AFAIK. I'll do a GIF or two for this when I do falco's dthrow.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Dthrow

Popo is +22 against sheik

4 frames of hitlag and 4 additional frames of hitstun.

Also should be noted that sheik's dthrow is not effected by weight.

Fthrow

Popo is +26 against sheik

5 frames of hitlag and 4 additional frames of hitstun.



Neither uthrow or bthrow hit popo's shield.

 

[KirbyKaze]

So if you try this, Popo will shield grab > d-throw CG you until his woman returns and then do the better CGs until handoff or whatever and then you'll die.

Lame.

Ice Climbers are stupid.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Or just make sure you grab popo :D

 

[KirbyKaze]

Can't Nana just hit me then? D:

 

[gm jack]

Nana isn't likely to shield. If you throw quickly you might either hit her as well with the throw or get the invincibility to avoid the attack and then catch her in the throw's hitbox.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

The only thing i could see the ICs doing with nana is shield drop dsmash. Not sure if you can do that after the throw (control range of nana).

 

[DJMirror]

Dthrow

Popo is +22 against sheik

4 frames of hitlag and 4 additional frames of hitstun.

Also should be noted that sheik's dthrow is not effected by weight.

Fthrow

Popo is +26 against sheik

5 frames of hitlag and 4 additional frames of hitstun.



Neither uthrow or bthrow hit popo's shield.

Ah thanks Sveet I'll let Kira know

So if you try this, Popo will shield grab > d-throw CG you until his woman returns and then do the better CGs until handoff or whatever and then you'll die.

Lame.

Man I agree

Ice Climbers are stupid.

QFT

 

[ChicknMonkey]

When sheik is on the edge, which areial should I use to get back on the stage?
I tend to do fair and knock them away and since it brings me a little forward i dont have to worry about screwing up as much but I also do uair to knock them up and then either fall back to the edge and do it again or roll up. Which is better or are ther certain circumstances to use one over the other?

 

[KirbyKaze]

If they jump above you to bait the Fair then you can Uair and then **** them.

If they wait outside the ranges for both of those then just do something simple and stand up or waveland on or something.

If they're close it can be good to late Nair because late Nair > grab > b-throw > stock sometimes works.

 

[gm jack]

Just what ever you do, don't get desperate to hit with something, because if you swing and miss, there is a good chance they are going to hit you back off stage with out your double jump.

 

[Teczer0]

Just what ever you do, don't get desperate to hit with something, because if you swing and miss, there is a good chance they are going to hit you back off stage with out your double jump.

This happened to me like all day yesterday vs PC LOL

Goddammit =(

 

[soap]

I saw facebook pics of forward, pc, jman

looked like a tiny stacked tourney

 

[Kaffei]

So how do I fight ice climbers? spam fair and needle? o.0

idk

 

[DualCats]

I really dislike that matchup. Needles are really useful. If you mindlessly spam fair, you'll probably get grabbed. A lot. And that sucks. I usually space bairs and camp platforms. Look for opportunities to kill nana but be cautious of baits. o__o Be careful about using laggy moves because IC punishes are ****ing biblical.

 

[MTKO]

I'm finding I'm having trouble with this match up as well against a friend. Like what Dualcats said, getting well spaced, late bairs is a good thing. It's especially good if you do it very late on the shields and they think they can shield grab you, then you can f-tilt to get a combo going. Needles are also great to stop an approach or bait them to do something.

 

[soap]

Is dr. peepee the new sheik board mod?

 

[Teczer0]

Is dr. peepee the new sheik board mod?

Nope, sorry.

I'm your moderator again xD