Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

[gm jack]

The point is this guy, who is one of the best in the continent, has played Armada several times (I think he said he housed him earlier in the thread). That implies that he has played the matchup with the best Peach several times.

Even when you are playing a better player, you can see what you need to do. From what he says and sometimes struggling to beat a very bad peach I play regularly, Sheik has nothing. Hell, Sheik even has good stuff on the puff (range). Peach does everything Sheik does better and isn't victim to it herself. How is that not a bad matchup?

 

[Turazrok]

Where is the sweetspot on Sheik's bair?

 

[soap]

Defense:
- You can't shield her attacks / Turnip, FC fair to dsmash = ***** shield & sometimes shield stabs
- You can't spotdodge her attacks / Turnip, FC fair to something >> spotdodge
- You can't really roll either / Roll away Turnip hits you (sometimes a stitch face), roll towards her and she can grab, dsmash or dash attack you
- You can't crouch cancel / lol
- You can't out-prioritize her attacks / If you tilt too early, you get hit. If you tilt too late, you get hit. If you time it perfectly, you clash. (but usually you just get hit)
- You can't camp because she'll just corner you / Unless it's Dreamland, but then she's even harder to kill, so bad idea
- You can't recover



Offense:
- You can barely combo her
- You can't gimp her
- You can't Tech-chase her (because she doesn't tech 99.9% of the time)
- You can barely kill her
- You can't pressure her at low % / Because you'll either end up trading hits and she'll wind up on top (When she's floating it's even worse)

Counter:
- You can't dash dance (or shield) grab her 99.9% of the time / Her Aerials have no lag so can't be punished, her Dash attack stays out too long to dash dance grab and if it's spaced properly, you can't shield grab it because you'll get downtilted (waiting for the dtilt doesn't really work either)
- You can try a Nair out of shield after Aerials, but you'll get jabbed or dsmashed or whatever before you leave the ground, if by a miracle you do hit, she can CC and combo you before you land



Too lazy to think of anything else..but yeah, Peach is the Devil.

Shielding gets u ***** against everybody, your limited options oos doesn't negate sheiks solid movement game

additionally light shield always saved me against dsmash pressure and shield stabs

quick bair positioning goes through her nair and is faster/has more range than peach fair. thats my best weapon against peach. Sh needle turn out of shield is a lifesaver. i never tilt really against peach. on the ground she can cc, in the air she has too much priority

u can needle camp and hold your ground/intercept, u don't have to run to the corner


ntsc u can combo her just fine, reading nair combo breakers and punishing like u do against samus isn't that hard either.

u can definitely dash dance grab missed dash attacks by delaying the run back in slightly, then boost grabbing. i've never seen a peach perfectly space a dash attack on shield either lol, i didn't know that was possible

low % are rough against everyone, just needle camp and grab/space like usual

armada is legit, but i disagree on peach being a good character, her rushdown/trapping compared to fox/falco/marth is alot crappier

 

[KirbyKaze]

I'm just speaking from experience.

Well, so am I.

I don't know if Armada is the best at edgeguarding Sheik in the whole wide world, but as far as I'm concerned anyone at high level should be able to **** Sheik for her awful, awful recovery. Almost regardless of character, in fact.

Objectively, I'm 99.9% sure that NTSC Sheik is miles better than Peach at edgeguarding Sheik because of NTSC broken D-throw chain grab and D-throw combos.

 

[h!tboxexplo!ter]

i personally would like to see this pal peach vs sheik topic die. amsahs stance is clear. and nothing productive is coming from this. now its just been reduced to mud slinging and insults.... plus its christmas cmon.

 

[Yomi-no-Kuni]

my nooby thoughts on the peach MU:
i play PAL.

I dont think Peach ***** Sheik.
I've witnessed Armadas Edgeguards, it is almost impssible to get on stage safely once your on the ledge or in the air. I dont know what to do when in that situation.
Sadly i havent played aramada alot yet...

In general, I think the Peach/sheik MU has alot to do with guessing (or reading)

I dont know about framedata, but i think it is quite possible to get in a grab after an floatcanceled aerial into shield.
Peach has the options TapA (1 or 2 Times), Another Floatcancel, Downsmash, Dashdance, Grab.
You have to guess, or know what the opponent will do.
I dont know for sure, but i think you can get in a grab after a TapA combo, or before an Downsmash. If i am incorrect, can someone please notify me?
I guess we all agree you can **** peach after a grab? (NTSC: tilt/any aerial/regrab) (Pal: Dashattack+followup/tilt or aerial when not DIed away)

Concerning Turnips: i tend to catch them by pressing A (standing) or with a backwards shorthop.
The second Option is rather stupid, because then You`re completely open to Dashattack or Fairs or w/e the peach wants
With the first option, you are able to shield incomming attacks... well... nevermind that... armada propably hits exactly when the turnip does... Turnips suck...
well, against all those sucky standard peaches i SH-catch the turnip and then throw it back at the peach directly after catching it, thus hiting a floating peach...

Thats pretty much all i do against peaches. I dont let them abuse the turnip and try to get in shieldgrabs by predicting their actions after i have baited them into attacking my shield. I did get a few grabs when i played armada in freeplay... (he still 3 stocked me though and it was a long way back xD)

GOD**** I SHOULD'VE PLAYED ARMADA AT OSTS LAST WEEK!!!! **** 1 DAY tourney :/

 

[Nihonjin]

Amsah's argument:

"It's impossible for the sheik to get on the stage with the peach and the bair oh noez"

Learn to read.

Um get over it and adapt. I'm pretty sure a total n00b could tell you that all you have to do is play smarter, cause you have like 50 options from the ledge and an infinite stall.

Again, learn to read.

Lolz, but cause you're better than me you must be right.. that's called an appeal to authority, look it up.

More like, because you can't support your argument while I can, I'm right. :embarrass

All of the bad things you listed in your Offense/Defense list can be worked around. But you just get read like a book.

Right.

Oh well, have fun going fox and getting ***** harder, cause I'm sure armada doesn't know the fox matchup at all

I actually do go Fox, and we go somewhat even in NTSC without me knowing the matchup at all or even seriously playing the character. :embarrass

Go Tope/KK/M2K/Tec0/Vanz/any other sheik who doesn't cry like a baby.

I'm not just randomly saying "PEACH IS TOO GOOD!!11!" I've explained why I think the way I do. I'm not whining, just stating an opinion.

You on the other hand ironically have been crying ever since your ****ty vids thread.

Shielding gets u ***** against everybody, your limited options oos doesn't negate sheiks solid movement game

I disagree, but it's not important.

additionally light shield always saved me against dsmash pressure and shield stabs

Fair enough, I use that too.

quick bair positioning goes through her nair and is faster/has more range than peach fair.

I've tried that too..

Sh needle turn out of shield is a lifesaver.

Dash attack..=/

i never tilt really against peach. on the ground she can cc, in the air she has too much priority

Yup.

u can needle camp and hold your ground/intercept, u don't have to run to the corner

She can float over straight needles and floats too high to be hit the angled ones without being able to Punish you horribly...

u can definitely dash dance grab missed dash attacks by delaying the run back in slightly, then boost grabbing.

You're the first to tell me something I haven't tried (blame it on the fact that grabs are useless in PAL). I'll keep that in mind.

i've never seen a peach perfectly space a dash attack on shield either lol, i didn't know that was possible

Oh you'll see...

armada is legit, but i disagree on peach being a good character, her rushdown/trapping compared to fox/falco/marth is alot crappier

I'm not saying she's a good character, just bad for Sheik. Overall I think Sheik >>>> Peach.

 

[soap]

I've tried that too..



Dash attack..=/



Yup.



She can float over straight needles and floats too high to be hit the angled ones without being able to Punish you horribly...

did the bairs work? they work for me

dash attack is hella annoying

but thats what needles are for.

i've always used ground needle camp to get her to float over them then i stuff her with running bairs. (ground charge, store em', rush)

eventually she anticipates the bair and fairs early to intercept u, then u just punish that with stuff.

i have other strats, but that is some of my bread and butter

i personally would like to see this pal peach vs sheik topic die. amsahs stance is clear. and nothing productive is coming from this. now its just been reduced to mud slinging and insults.... plus its christmas cmon.

i disagree, i just see some good discussion....with the occasional personal jabs

 

[TresChikon]

*argument*

I don't understand this argument between you and GOD!, it makes about as much sense as me trying to tell Ken how to Ken combo.

 

[soap]

I don't understand this argument between you and GOD!, it makes about as much sense as me trying to tell Ken how to Ken combo.

well i agree that u shouldn't agree with people just cuz they are good.

but i also don't think u should call people out just cuz they are good

 

[Nihonjin]

I don't understand this argument between you and GOD!, it makes about as much sense as me trying to tell Ken how to Ken combo.

There isn't too much to understand, I'm just bored, so I answer.

I don't actually take him seriously or care about what he thinks until he lays off the silly ad hominem arguments. :embarrass

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

red herring arguments are my favori---

SQUIRREL!

 

[Nihonjin]

^ Whahahahahaha

 

[GOD!]

you obviously just used a logical fallacy incorrectly too..

All you really can say is "I'm better than you" and "I don't take you seriously."
Have fun in your delusion.

And after your first post in my video thread I asked you to stop if you had nothing constructive to say.
So to say I asked you, the best sheik in Europe, to help me, is just a big lie.
And its not a smiley when the thing is embarrassed either.

Also, sheik gets ***** by fox pretty hard. I love playing sheik as fox, cause if you just avoid getting grabbed/dash attacked, you can combo and edge guard really well.

But when I edgeguard a fox and he illusions for the stage, is it ok to fall off, dj nair? I feel like there could be a better option if he tries to sweetspot the edge.. maybe a single needle?

 

[Nihonjin]

you obviously just used a logical fallacy incorrectly too..

Not really. "I hate Amsah, therefore everything he says is wrong" That's the basis of your argument. Either that, or you really are illiterate and can't help but misinterpret everything I say.

All you really can say is "I'm better than you" and "I don't take you seriously."
Have fun in your delusion.

I've listed exactly what I think is hard about the match up. I've yet to see you address any of my claims.

And after your first post in my video thread I asked you to stop if you had nothing constructive to say.

Which I did..:embarrass

So to say I asked you, the best sheik in Europe, to help me, is just a big lie.

No, it's just misleading.

And its not a smiley when the thing is embarrassed either.

Smashboards disagrees. :embarrass

Also, sheik gets ***** by fox pretty hard. I love playing sheik as fox, cause if you just avoid getting grabbed/dash attacked, you can combo and edge guard really well.

But when I edgeguard a fox and he illusions for the stage, is it ok to fall off, dj nair? I feel like there could be a better option if he tries to sweetspot the edge.. maybe a single needle?

This can't be aimed at me or you're by far the most random person I've ever met..

 

[h!tboxexplo!ter]

GOD! i prefer the nair... but technically if u could time the slap correctly thats probably the most deadly response. if ur hanging, bair that ho!

 

[Luma]

show off with some flashy ****!!! (pc chris egdehog to bair xD)

 

[GOD!]

yeah from now on I'm gonna walk off reverse needle cancel edgehog... for the kill...

Amsah.. sigh... the "smiley's" code is (embarass).. I was basing my argument upon the fact that your post was dumb, not that you were dumb (even though they're might be a correlation, who knows..).
Some people have too much pride to ever accept they are wrong. Oh well.

 

[Luma]

hell no, **** that needle cancel
and dont forgot the bair

 

[KirbyKaze]

I can do that needle cancel about half the time.

I need to cheat and WD first though because I do it by (assuming I'm facing right)

1) tap right
2) tap left
3) release
4) B
5) R
6) release

I can't hold right and then tap left offstage. I guess I kind of have to "dash dance" into it.

My tech skill is so bad.

I get it more than half if I do a standard ledge stand and then just dash turn needle store edgehog.

 

[Lordydennek]

Dont argue about smilies. Theyre smilies??? I mean they smile. GOD! have you played Armada? Amsah doesnt really sound like he's complaining, just posting some **** that I def agree with. But I am by no means as good as Amsah and he's got a lot more experience especially playing against Armada so id go with his opinion. And he's not stupid...why would you hint at that? But I mean you have your opinion. Some good advice for everyone
"No one cares what advice you can offer if you're a jerk about it."-Bob, my preacher
He def said that to me once...burns right? But i aknowledged my error and apologized. And was forgiven! Lets all forgive each other on Christmas and love one another!!!
-sorry for being so mushy. but it is Christmas

 

[DtJ Jungle]

We dont take kindly to your folk.

 

[Lordydennek]

We dont take kindly to your folk.

Christians? lol thats cool. You can believe whatever you want. Jesus and I still love you anyway.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

lol i just meant mushy gushy.

 

[Lordydennek]

lolz oook. well thats too bad, the mushy gushy is here to stay!

 

[DtJ Jungle]

u sure about htat?

 

[soap]

Christians? lol thats cool. You can believe whatever you want. Jesus and I still love you anyway.

if by love, u mean persecute and kill, then that sounds like the historical christian i know

 

[DtJ Jungle]

yah those people!

 

[Spife]

tsk
Religion and politics don't belong here, trolling or not. Keep that **** to your self.

 

[Lordydennek]

positive.
(Lordydennek epuips Hylian Shield)
(Lordydennek equips bulletproof vest)
(lordydennek submits a prayer to God)

Dude chill soap Im not those guys. Jesus isnt that way at all for realz. Man and greed ****ed everything up. Jesus is legit. But ya i dont wanna start an argument, but i gotta stand for the beliefs yo

 

[DtJ Jungle]

shhh teczero's gone!

 

[soap]

lolz, he just didn't seem to care when u took a stab at his faith, i like to see how far i can take it with those happy go lucky types

i actually harbor no ill will

but on the real, every religion has their black spots in history, and i don't care to discuss them. But religion has done more good than bad for peoples lives imo and I will leave it at that.

it seemed funnier when i was typing...wrong crowd

 

[Lordydennek]

its all cool. im aware that the man made church is very flawed. Jesus is more about what is between you and him, not you and the church you attend and the clothes that you wear and things you say. its about whats in your heart. thats all he needs to see.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Sheik is a really good character.

 

[soap]

Sheik is a really good character.

don't change the subject.

the way u view the world and your beliefs is what u gives u the inspiration to **** at smash, this is totally relevant

 

[Lordydennek]

lolz indeed. question!
can you nair drop off the edge on top of a fox whos in their up b?

 

[DtJ Jungle]

I CANT HEAR YOU BLAH BLAH BLAH SHEIK IS AN AMAZING CHARACTER

 

[Lordydennek]

don't change the subject.

the way u view the world and your beliefs is what u gives u the inspiration to **** at smash, this is totally revelant

lol yes. I see smash as a blessing from God.

 

[ETWIST51294]

Sheik is a really gay character.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

indeed she is

this is why we worship her.