ROM 5 - Mew2King vs Unknown522

[Gea]

I like most of what I'm seeing here, but a surprising number of people (I think a minority... I hope, at least) seem to be OK with splitting as long as it's kept secret.

I think more the idea is that it is impossible to stop it entirely, so if you're going to do it, do it in secret and keep it that way.

 

[Battlecow]

I mean, yeah, you can't enforce rules against it, but we should still be against it (Stigmatize it, like Kal said). If it is against the rules, and if it is disapproved of by the community at large, it'll be less of a "Oh everyone splits la la la" and more of a "I'm a douchebag and this other guy in GF's is also a douchebag and therefore I'm going to split."

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

I like most of what I'm seeing here, but a surprising number of people (I think a minority... I hope, at least) seem to be OK with splitting as long as it's kept secret. I'm really, really, really against that. I've never been offered a split for more than a hundred-odd bucks (and I probably never will be), but I can tell you that if I was I'd turn it down. Even if I was going to lose the match.

I know the idea seems attractive. You can play your finals without any of the stress and bother that goes along with the silly money issues. You don't have to kill yourself over every decision. Hell, you might even play better without the added pressure.

But that is really, fundamentally, NOT what it's about. Tournaments are competitive, and the parts that you're trying to avoid--the stress, the pressure, the potential for monetary loss, and all of the other synonyms for hype--are what you're there for.

Even if it's not, even if you're in a real casual mindset that day, it's what the spectators are looking for. And regardless of what umbreon says (I'd like to take this opportunity to share with you an opinion near to my heart, namely, that Umbreon is what happens when rectal polyps gain sentience) you do have an obligation to the guys driving out there and throwing twenty bucks in the pot so that they can be there in person when the legendary matches go down.

I'm against splitting too. But there's only so much we can do to prevent it without getting into people's lives, and we can't force someone to have the same ideas about competition as everyone else. My main concern is the integrity of the tournament as a competitive enterprise, I don't believe the TO should have any sort of say in what the players do as long as they respect what the TO/hosts are trying to accomplish with their event. If people are going to split I'd prefer just not to know at all and have finals be played out at least for pride if not for money.

not really

from what i've seen/heard, this entire hooplah is a big reminder that melee needs a strongly enforced standardized universal ruleset

The thing is, Melee has a long tradition of letting each TO decide what rules they want at their own tournaments. We saw what was going on in Brawl and we made a conscious decision not to go in that direction. There is a need for a standard sure, but as people have mentioned before, the problem with the rules could have been avoided simply with the TOs/hosts taking time to make sure everyone was aware of rules differences. I'd rather we expect this from our TOs instead of expecting them to adhere to a rigid standard that we're going to "enforce" (how?).

 

[Bob Money]

I'm not mad just confused, shall me shallow but something drastic would have to happen to me for me to throw away my first US major tournament win when
I'm so close, like a family member member hurt or a friend that needs help hiding fro the mafia etc.

I hope these guys didn't have something life changing etc happen to them that utterly destroyed their will to play.

 

[Divinokage]

I'm not mad just confused, shall me shallow but something drastic would have to happen to me for me to throw away my first US major tournament win when
I'm so close, like a family member member hurt or a friend that needs help hiding fro the mafia etc.

I hope these guys didn't have something life changing etc happen to them that utterly destroyed their will to play.

Well if not then there's no reason to give it their all no matter what happens. I'd call them pansies or children.

 

[Mew2King]

something i've been wondering that I haven't seen brought up yet:

was the bracket really seeded that badly with unknown and kk on opposite sides of the same half? going into it I would have ranked m2k as 1 for seeding, then I would have thought kk and unknown were the next best players there. So wouldn't it make sense to put them on the opposite side as m2k? by switching the bracket m2k definitely had a harder time and I think unknown did too. yes unknown and kk are from the same region but if they both make it very far into the bracket isn't there a very good chance that they're going to have to play each other in loser's anyways?

I'm curious what better TO's then me think about this. I have a feeling someone will convince me that I'm wrong.

also, i guess a case could be made for hax being on the unknown/ kk level then the issue become easier..

basically my kindness ****ed me over. I should have not allowed it but I did because I felt bad for canada fighting each other, but I should also be fighting the 4th best player there not 2nd/3rd best players (the 2 canadians).

i wish i was played against seriously, as i wanted to still win.

 

[Alukard]

something i've been wondering that I haven't seen brought up yet:

was the bracket really seeded that badly with unknown and kk on opposite sides of the same half? going into it I would have ranked m2k as 1 for seeding, then I would have thought kk and unknown were the next best players there. So wouldn't it make sense to put them on the opposite side as m2k? by switching the bracket m2k definitely had a harder time and I think unknown did too. yes unknown and kk are from the same region but if they both make it very far into the bracket isn't there a very good chance that they're going to have to play each other in loser's anyways?

I'm curious what better TO's then me think about this. I have a feeling someone will convince me that I'm wrong.

also, i guess a case could be made for hax being on the unknown/ kk level then the issue become easier..

I concur that the top-4 seeds of the tournament were correct. KK vs. unknown in semis should have actually happened. The only unfortunate part is that both Weon-X and Europhoria were also in the same side of the bracket.

yea that was the seeding ...just last no johns djn beat unknown really soundly twice ... whether or not unknown had controller johns ... it happened ... and i think unknown is an amazing player its just that i feel eggm hax were/are a bit more consistent with placings =\ ... i truly am sorry about euphoria and weon ... those names slipped by me =[

i already have ideas and plans for my next major to run amazing ... i used a bunch of new techniques and ideas i gained from the previous one ... i will keep getting better and better at this ... i wanted it to be the last ROM but not the last major !!

I'm not mad just confused, shall me shallow but something drastic would have to happen to me for me to throw away my first US major tournament win when
I'm so close, like a family member member hurt or a friend that needs help hiding fro the mafia etc.

I hope these guys didn't have something life changing etc happen to them that utterly destroyed their will to play.

thats what i was thinking as well ... but i really dont know the reason i felt like crying when i saw this all unfolding ... my phone seriously wouldn't stop ringing ... sponsors and investors and basically anyone i told to watch that was important just went nutz and backed out =[ ....

but a few are still interested ... so PLEASE lets make every event from now on better ...



PS. the ruleset WILL be even more specific towards pot splitting and all this stuff ... not sure exactly but it will be done !

 

[Europhoria]

This thread is just so weird. The response from the majority of people makes no logical sense relative to this community's traditions/reality or how this tournament was run at all. Of course a lot of this situation was lame but with VERY few exceptions all the posts in this thread are dumb.

You can't force someone to try. I wanted to yell at KK during his set with Eggm to stop ****ing blatantly sandbagging games 2-5 (as evidenced by the charging of many f-smashes, walking around slowly into x20 f-tilts, u-smash tech chases at 5%, not going for any grabs at all, etc. I'm sorry if this offends you Eggm cause I heard you thought you "figured him out" but life sucks sometimes). Ultimately, if he's bored and doesn't care then there's nothing that can be done. Lots of things can lead to this scenario including but not limited to things as simple as the matches just not being interesting to a player because of skill gap or IRL distractions. There's no way of making rules to enforce someone to try or prevent pot splitting (they can just exchange money later at IHOP or whatever...). How do you think you would ever be able to determine if someone "wasn't trying"?

There's some useful stuff in here about how 6 minute button checks are ****ing ********, especially after the person conducting them just spent 2+ hours in a corner forcing everyone who wants to play him to use Fox or he won't play so he can be warmed up. We could even look at DSR vs. DSMR, etc. Even the BF only idea (which I hate) is better discussion then like 29/30 pages worth of posts in this thread.

Something new to address for this community?
The whole deal with streaming/backseat driving smahers and how it affects tournaments is nothing short of idiotic. Players aren't ****ing circus clowns there to dance for a stream that contributes nothing to the tournament whatsoever. In fact, it takes away from the tournament because it slows down how it's run since basically the last 10 sets or whatever always *have* to be streamed or everyone will *****. This extends the length of the tournament by literal hours. Unless the stream contributes some kind of money to the pot or whatever directly through add revenue then no one who wasn't there has any right to complain about how anything at this tournament was done.

I mean, arguably without the stream this M2K vs. Unknown drama could have all been avoided as we could have waited for a ruling instead of M2K using the stream as leverage + the stream crew pressuring Ryan to get the **** going asap. Peope who don't attend/contribute to the tournament in a real way (hype is not a real contribution, despite how much you might want it to be) aren't entitled to anything at all. Furthermore, they have no right to be upset about whether something happens or not - including a stream or even recorded videos regardless of how much you want/appreciate those things.

You are of course allowed to post your opinions in a public forum but I urge a lot of you (Bob Money, Kage) who are notable players to consider what you're actually saying and re-evaluate your stance (that this was some huge scandal, that they don't love the game, etc.) based on the history of this community with sandbagging, splitting and even more so based on what all 3 people (really just 2 involved in the split cause KK only took 3rd place money) have contributed to the community - this includes M2K. Despite a tendency to cry until he gets his way and ****ing make a lot of our lives miserable he has brought a lot to the community.

Alukard, I appreciate you trying to make amends with me. It means I'd consider going to another RoM, because at this 1 I just wanted to stop playing matches altogether after that **** happened and had no desire to come back. Please make an effort in the future (I'm sure you will) to seed better. Even if you just ask people at the door what region they're from, do soft registration online so you can show up with some kind of pools already made and then you can re-organize, etc. It would all help to starting on time and even make running the last half of 2 whole brackets on 1 set up a more viable option. I'd enjoy leaving tournaments at a time when things other then McDonalds are open and hanging out with people. I'm sure we all do.

 

[GimR]

Here's the deal, M2K was wrong to ask for the split, but, he played his mains and tried to win. Unknown and Kirby Kaze were completely disrespectful by picking secondaries and sandbagging. I had to stop them from playing Kirby Vs. Pichu in Winners Finals.

Unknown522 apologized and was sincere about it. He tried to take all of the blame.

Kirby Kaze is trying to defend his actions

 

[Lovage]

LMFAO @ canadian post above me

 

[ph00tbag]

I'm against splitting too. But there's only so much we can do to prevent it without getting into people's lives, and we can't force someone to have the same ideas about competition as everyone else. My main concern is the integrity of the tournament as a competitive enterprise, I don't believe the TO should have any sort of say in what the players do as long as they respect what the TO/hosts are trying to accomplish with their event. If people are going to split I'd prefer just not to know at all and have finals be played out at least for pride if not for money.

I think this puts it most succinctly. A player's money is their money, and it's unrealistic for us to say what they can do with it, but the collective competitive spirit of the community belongs to the community, and to the TOs and players that nurture and participate in it, and the players who aren't on board with that spirit, and are just in it for the money, should still be held accountable to it. If they demonstrate unapologetic and consistent disregard for that spirit, there's no onus on us to continue to tolerate that.

The thing is, Melee has a long tradition of letting each TO decide what rules they want at their own tournaments. We saw what was going on in Brawl and we made a conscious decision not to go in that direction. There is a need for a standard sure, but as people have mentioned before, the problem with the rules could have been avoided simply with the TOs/hosts taking time to make sure everyone was aware of rules differences. I'd rather we expect this from our TOs instead of expecting them to adhere to a rigid standard that we're going to "enforce" (how?).

I think it's a question of degrees, really. Tournaments that are part of a series, like Road to Apex, ought to have a standard ruleset, and aspiring to be a tournament that is part of the series ought to imply a buy-in to that ruleset. This ensures that participants in the series can encounter the same kind of competition at any seeding event that they will encounter at the headlining event, which is a reasonable expectation, by any account.

But that doesn't have to apply to locals, and independent tourneys. In fact, keeping the local rulesets has historically brought unique innovation and development to the game, and allowed new talent to incubate very quickly by providing a consistent, like-minded regional crowd with a lot of diverse mindsets. I find this to be a great system that covers the best of both worlds.

 

[Europhoria]

Here's the deal, M2K was wrong to ask for the split, but, he played his mains and tried to win. Unknown and Kirby Kaze were completely disrespectful by picking secondaries and sandbagging. I had to stop them from playing Kirby Vs. Pichu in Winners Finals.

Unknown522 apologized and was sincere about it. He tried to take all of the blame.

Kirby Kaze is trying to defend his actions

KK wasn't part of the split. He took home 3rd place prize money.

Now, I want you to go track down Isai's phone number and tell him he's a disgrace to the SSBM community and that you want him to make a huge public apology for years of sandbagging. Then I want you to do the same thing with Mango. Then after that go do it with S2J and Lovage for splitting the first Big House. Then do it again with Cactuar. Also do it for M2K for the first RoM. Vwins once split with Raynex cause they were tired. Do you see where this going yet?

 

[mhenlo]

Unknown was an ******* to M2K. M2K just played how he would've played in any tournament for the last year maybe more. They replayed a match that already had a result, that wouldn't happen at any other tournament regardless of what game you play, if Unknown won they wouldn't have replayed the game 5.Also LITERALLY right before Unknown and M2K sit down for the set M2K allows them to change the bracket so Unknown doesn't have to play against KirbyKaze. Then Unknown ****s m2k over.

 

[GimR]

KK wasn't part of the split. He took home 3rd place prize money.

Now, I want you to go track down Isai's phone number and tell him he's a disgrace to the SSBM community and that you want him to make a huge public apology for years of sandbagging. Then I want you to do the same thing with Mango. Then after that go do it with S2J and Lovage for splitting the first Big House. Then do it again with Cactuar. Also do it for M2K for the first RoM. Vwins once split with Raynex cause they were tired. Do you see where this going yet?

lots of straw man. I remember when I said people should apologize...

Just don't sand bag on stream or during finals. It's as simple as that.

And I personally hate splitting. I think it's soft. The whole point of a competitive sport is to be the best of the best. But, if you do split, please, I beg you, at least make it look like a real match on my stream. damn, it's not that hard.

also, Kaze purposefully losing to Unknown was just as bad as what Unknown did

 

[AppleAppleAZ]

KK wasn't part of the split. He took home 3rd place prize money.

Now, I want you to go track down Isai's phone number and tell him he's a disgrace to the SSBM community and that you want him to make a huge public apology for years of sandbagging. Then I want you to do the same thing with Mango. Then after that go do it with S2J and Lovage for splitting the first Big House. Then do it again with Cactuar. Also do it for M2K for the first RoM. Vwins once split with Raynex cause they were tired. Do you see where this going yet?

but mango and isai actually win against people's mains.

 

[KrIsP!]

I still don't understand why Kirby Pichu couldn't be played out. It would have been legit and hype but we need to play top tiers? Bottom line, Unknown wanted to forfeit, forcing him to play for a stream isn't going to make it any more interesting. I mean ****, we let DJN do some legit **** with bowser, does anybody realise where the name kirbykaze comes from and people don't know about unknown's Pichu. In the name of entertainment, I wanted to see it. In the name of competitive spirit, they were ****ing done at that point. Not done because they split but just plain done, or so it seemed to me.

 

[Europhoria]

lots of straw man. I remember when I said people should apologize...

Just don't sand bag on stream or during finals. It's as simple as that.

And I personally hate splitting. I think it's soft. The whole point of a competitive sport is to be the best of the best. But, if you do split, please, I beg you, at least make it look like a real match on my stream. damn, it's not that hard.

also, Kaze purposefully losing to Unknown was just as bad as what Unknown did

Fine, they don't need to apologize. But I guess you thought putting those 3 on blast on a stream in front of thousands of people was the best way to handle this. Unless you thought doing that would keep it a secret from them. I want you to follow your logic and try to publicly shame anyone who was ever done this over your stream and to make more derogatory posts about them on the boards since it's the best way to handle this as what they did was both so ****ing awful and rare that it warrants it.

 

[tarheeljks]

def saw gimr call out mango after koc

 

[MeatIsMURDER]

unknown522 is a terrible person
kirbykaze is a bad person
m2k is not a person at all, it's miraculous that his ethics processor functioned at such a level to even allow a bracket change

 

[Europhoria]

def saw gimr call out mango after koc

http://www.twitch.tv/vgbootcamp/b/339231930

Timestamp

 

[tarheeljks]

what part should i be ff-ing to? idk what was said on stream--haven't watched any of it actually-- but after the tourney he said something to the effect of " i don't fly across the country to stream people who don't want to try"

 

[Charlesz]

unknown522 is a terrible person
kirbykaze is a bad person
m2k is not a person at all, it's miraculous that his ethics processor functioned at such a level to even allow a bracket change

This sums everything up pretty much.

 

[tarheeljks]

i mean relax, saying they are terrible human beings is unnecessary and unwarranted. geez

 

[NightShadow6]

I say we all just put this behind us now and rectify things so that this doesn't happen again.

 

[Divinokage]

Fine, they don't need to apologize. But I guess you thought putting those 3 on blast on a stream in front of thousands of people was the best way to handle this. Unless you thought doing that would keep it a secret from them. I want you to follow your logic and try to publicly shame anyone who was ever done this over your stream and to make more derogatory posts about them on the boards since it's the best way to handle this as what they did was both so ****ing awful and rare that it warrants it.

Rare? I'm sorry but they always do that for whatever reason they have in between themselves, they'll forfeit to each other. Is it really unreasonable to try to beat your friend? I don't know the reasons why but it certainly doesn't help if that continues especially in finals where everyone is watching. Now.. if that kind of thing isn't reproduced anymore then I can forgive them but if this is continues I don't know what I will do but it won't be pretty, I'm still mad.

 

[Twinkles]

unknown522 is a terrible person
kirbykaze is a bad person
m2k is not a person at all, it's miraculous that his ethics processor functioned at such a level to even allow a bracket change

As terrible as these turn of events were, I don't see how you can make a judgment call like that. unknown522 helps people on the Fox boards, most people I've heard talk about him say he's quite cordial. KK is (or was) master of the Sheik boards, and he's dropped a lot of info everywhere around the boards. ****, mew2king made the original frame data BIBLE.

I'm not saying absolve them of what they've done, but damn man, no need to treat them like scum of the earth.

 

[10th]

I don't understand why people are so quick to blame M2k for so much. Like was said, splitting kept secret wouldn't have been a problem.

Not to cause more upset, but I feel like unknown and KK should be getting called out a lot more than they have been. After playing against someone so long, and then getting to WF in a foreign tournament, you'd think they would try extra hard to fight each other, where's that competitive spirit? (I was huge fans of you guys before this by the way)

And then unknown fighting to get that game redone (which should NOT have happened), to then not even TRY in GF. M2k played well, even after getting the rug pulled out from under him, he wanted to win, a lot more at least than KK and unknown did.

If sponsors really made final decisions based on this stream, then this is really disappointing, but we've had so many good tourneys before this and will have even more hype ones after assuming they don't pull this again

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

I had to stop them from playing Kirby Vs. Pichu in Winners Finals.

Why? High level play of Low tiers is one of the most amazing things ever. Would you try and stop Mango from playing Mario? Taj from playing Mewtwo? You even play a Low tier, if me and you were playing on stream would you tell me not to go Mewtwo and would you not go G&W? I've never actually seen Unknowns Pichu, but I've heard plenty of people talk about how amazing it is, some even calling it the best in the world. And I would assume that KIRBYKaze chose that name for a reason. Unknown's Pichu vs KK's Kirby would have been an amazing thing to see. Stopping it from happening would be the same as stopping Armada Young Link vs Mango Mario. ****ing Stupid.

tl;dr: Kirby vs Pichu in winners finals would have been hype.

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

I think it's a question of degrees, really. Tournaments that are part of a series, like Road to Apex, ought to have a standard ruleset, and aspiring to be a tournament that is part of the series ought to imply a buy-in to that ruleset. This ensures that participants in the series can encounter the same kind of competition at any seeding event that they will encounter at the headlining event, which is a reasonable expectation, by any account.

Yes, but that's between the Apex organizers and the other TOs though, it's not a matter for the MBR to decide.

Anyway, I still think this comes down to respecting a code of conduct established by the TOs/hosts. I guess we have just learned that this is something TOs need to state explicitly now. If you don't agree with the way a TO does something, you don't have to go to his tournament.

But I do think we should focus on the things we can practically fix. All the players involved in this cited frustration with tournament organization as par of the reason for their actions. We can't easily try to change the mindset of the players, but we can make sure that tournaments are run more smoothly/fairly and with clearer rules.

 

[Lovage]

Then I want you to do the same thing with Mango. Then after that go do it with S2J and Lovage for splitting the first Big House.

i think the key difference is, at least me and vanz gave people a WF set. and even though me and s2j split the pot (and announced to the stream after) we still gave the people a pretty good GF set

in this case i could give a damn about pot splitting, it's seeing one person try in a 6-match GF and one person not. as bob money keeps repeating, it's seeing TWO (unknown and KK) people have a title shot and throwing it away thru frustration. canada BOOOOOOOOOOOOOO KAWWW KAWW VULTURE ATTACKSSS

honestly in terms of what all went wrong, alukard really should have let unknown /ff out of the tournament, then we could have gone straight to a GF set of KK vs. m2k, tournament would have ended with a sweet bang. o well that's just how i woulda done it LOL

 

[10th]

in this case i could give a damn about pot splitting, it's seeing one person try in a 6-match GF and one person not. as bob money keeps repeating, it's seeing TWO (unknown and KK) people have a title shot and throwing it away thru frustration. canada BOOOOOOOOOOOOOO KAWWW KAWW VULTURE ATTACKSSS

This.

You come all this way to try to win, then just throw it away? Some kind of explanation would be awesome

 

[ph00tbag]

KK wasn't part of the split. He took home 3rd place prize money.

Now, I want you to go track down Isai's phone number and tell him he's a disgrace to the SSBM community and that you want him to make a huge public apology for years of sandbagging. Then I want you to do the same thing with Mango. Then after that go do it with S2J and Lovage for splitting the first Big House. Then do it again with Cactuar. Also do it for M2K for the first RoM. Vwins once split with Raynex cause they were tired. Do you see where this going yet?

So you're suggesting that because GimR (rightly) believes the culture in the Smash community of tolerating sandbagging is toxic and damaging, that he must personally and directly censure every act of sandbagging throughout the course of the community's history, retroactively, otherwise his argument is invalid?

It doesn't work like that. GimR isn't just showing distaste for those acts, which we haven't the power to change; He is showing distaste for the culture that allows those acts to occur without retribution, and he is arguing that that culture is something that we can, and by all means should, change.

And he's absolutely right. We shouldn't look back at Isai underperforming at tournaments and say, "oh that Isai, what a card he was." We shouldn't look back at the year of Mango's "dominance" and say, "well he was still the best, even though he never actually played like he was." We shouldn't look back at any instance of splitting and say, "well, it's okay because [insert john here]." We should look back at this aspects of our history and say, "well, these things happened, and there's nothing we can do about that, but we try to keep them from happening again these days.

Yes, but that's between the Apex organizers and the other TOs though, it's not a matter for the MBR to decide.

Oh, I fully agree. I'd rather any such consortium have no affiliation with Smashboards and their organizational structure whatsoever, beyond being allowed to promote their tournaments on equal footing with independent tournaments. We don't want another URC debacle.

 

[LivewiresXe]

I don't understand why people are so quick to blame M2k for so much. Like was said, splitting kept secret wouldn't have been a problem.

Not to cause more upset, but I feel like unknown and KK should be getting called out a lot more than they have been. After playing against someone so long, and then getting to WF in a foreign tournament, you'd think they would try extra hard to fight each other, where's that competitive spirit? (I was huge fans of you guys before this by the way)

And then unknown fighting to get that game redone (which should NOT have happened), to then not even TRY in GF. M2k played well, even after getting the rug pulled out from under him, he wanted to win, a lot more at least than KK and unknown did.

If sponsors really made final decisions based on this stream, then this is really disappointing, but we've had so many good tourneys before this and will have even more hype ones after assuming they don't pull this again

Not to go into this again, but I believe M2K is getting the majority of the blame as situations like this involving him have been known to happen in the past.

 

[Lovage]

So you're suggesting that because GimR (rightly) believes the culture in the Smash community of tolerating sandbagging is toxic and damaging, that he must personally and directly censure every act of sandbagging throughout the course of the community's history, retroactively, otherwise his argument is invalid?

It doesn't work like that. GimR isn't just showing distaste for those acts, which we haven't the power to change; He is showing distaste for the culture that allows those acts to occur without retribution, and he is arguing that that culture is something that we can, and by all means should, change.

.

i would argue GIMR definitely overstepped his boundaries by "forcing" them to take WF "seriously" after neither of them wanted to play. i understand wanting to produce good content for the stream, but it's pretty clear imo WHY that backfired.

one competitior wanted to exit the set in WF and the powers at be held him back. let him live with his own decision and get on with the ****ing show. 2 sets of m2k vs. KK sheik dittos.......call me a melee FANBOY but that sounds dope as heck

 

[Divinokage]

i would argue GIMR definitely overstepped his boundaries by "forcing" them to take WF "seriously" after neither of them wanted to play. i understand wanting to produce good content for the stream, but it's pretty clear imo WHY that backfired.

one competitior wanted to exit the set in WF and the powers at be held him back. let him live with his own decision and get on with the ****ing show. 2 sets of m2k vs. KK sheik dittos.......call me a melee FANBOY but that sounds dope as heck

I had suggested that to KK on FB earlier too, it sounded like the best choice of action if the choice was there.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I was fine with doing exactly what Lovage said (take the win, go to GFs and wait for M2K) until they made us play out the set for the stream.

I understand I ruined WFs but what exactly was so bad about LFs?

 

[Hot_ArmS]

Why don't nationals just pay out using paypal after the events over, so unless a player really trusts someone to give them their share of the money they're not gonna agree to split

 

[10th]

I understand I ruined WFs but what exactly was so bad about LFs?

Imo, nothing, really enjoyed that set! Hope you and M2k get to play more like it in the future

 

[Jim Morrison]

Nothing except the fact that it wasn't GFs. Losers Finals were actually dope to watch because at least it seemed like both tried. It just contrasts so much with the whack finals after it.

 

[Jockmaster]

I was fine with doing exactly what Lovage said (take the win, go to GFs and wait for M2K) until they made us play out the set for the stream.

I understand I ruined WFs but what exactly was so bad about LFs?

LFs was actually one of my favorite sets of the night. I love elite Sheik dittos.

My biggest gripe was you blowing WFs, but I think you actually compensated with LFs. I'm mostly frustrated with Unkowns strange attitude towards the tournament and M2Ks flaky self.