Recovery Tier List

[Fortress | Sveet]

you seem to overestimate gimping. im probably one of the best marth gimpers, simply because my on stage game was horrible with marth for a very long time but i made up for it by landing grabs when i needed to and using those grabs to the limit. even if i grab a falco with my back to the edge, there are a collection of options he has to come back to the stage. It turns into a rock/paper/scissors where anytime marth doens't correctly guess falco's recovery, falco recovers successfully.

samus' recovery is totally overrated. she is in the same group as falcon and ganon, who can reach a good distance but never really should make it back on stage. Its quite easy to mess up edge guarding her recovery, and there are some mixups and a grapple sweetspot that is somewhat hard to cover, though.

puff
mewtwo
peach
samus
pichu
pikachu
fox
marth
sheik
falco
zelda

or something.

 

[1048576]

M2K's huge data thread says Falco has the 5th highest double jump; 3rd if you only count one jump from Jiggs/Kirby.

 

[JPOBS]

sheik < falco imo but otherwise i like sveets list

 

[Teczer0]

Yea.. imo falco's recovery has a lot more variety than sheik's.

Sheik's recovery as far as I'm concerned is terrible though.

 

[Vts]

Yea.. imo falco's recovery has a lot more variety than sheik's.

Sheik's recovery as far as I'm concerned is terrible though.

Blah blah blah, johns i suck , VTS is my husbando,

i just ****ed a cow

thats all i read :D

but then again i'm a squid

 

[KAOSTAR]

imo I think pikachu's speed compared to pichu is a little more valuable when recovering. pikachu is a bit heavier as well.

pichu has like that no landing lag but as long as you don't dive into the ground pikachu doesn't have as much as a sheik or falcon.

I think pikachu has a bit more distance as well so overall I think pikachu is better. I don't see pichu wall jumping to recover. also pikachu can knock ppl who su
it too long off the edge. similar to firefoxing into somebody.

top: puff, m2
high: peach, samus, pikachu, pichu fox
upper: falco, zelda, marth, IC
middle: gw, mario, doc, dk, link, y. link, sheik
low:luigi, ganon, falcon, kirby, bowser
bottom:sopopo, yoshi roy, ness

do you think maybe falco is a bit behind like zelda or marth? ...@sveet

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

nah i had fox on my list, go look.

anyways, i put pichu higher because he has more angles and the distance is the same. also pichu does have a wall jump and no land lag. in terms of recovery, pichu's is slightly better.

 

[OkamiBW]

The only problem that Pichu has is that his UpB doesn't have a hitbox like Pikachu's does. (And as a Sheik player...I don't think Samus's recovery's that great...as it can be needled and baired and stuff. )

 

[KAOSTAR]

nah i had fox on my list, go look.

anyways, i put pichu higher because he has more angles and the distance is the same. also pichu does have a wall jump and no land lag. in terms of recovery, pichu's is slightly better.

more angles? is this a sweetspot thing? if it is then I agree pichu is better.

I don't see the wall jump adding anything to the recovery. being able to knock people off the edge is way more useful even tho they both kinda suck.

I just think pikachu is better, but definitely close.

I can see it either way or a tie.

 

[GOD!]

http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20100426.gif

LMFAO

Yeah, basically

Basically: kk argues stupid points and looks like an idiot then hugs steps in and shuts his mouth for him

enter kk fanboy with 4chan graphic to boost self esteem way after the fact

congratulations you now have two bros lookin mighty fine

im probably one of the best marth gimpers

says number 9 on garbage state pr loooool mm me for $50 please if we ever meet

and if you think samus recovery is overrated: first that doesn't mean anything. Overrated by whom, cause some people think its awesome and some think its garbage. You made a statement without stating anything: you could still think her recovery is anywhere from good to absolute garbage.

unless you're sheik have fun. Then samus just bans yoshis and recovers high every time lol and lives tol 150 at least.

And no way marth falco is some rock paper scissors crap when recovering. You can cover every option of his recovery (a possible exception is if he illusions or firebirds really high: that way he'll land but get ***** right afterward, so its still bad recovery; also you should be getting him off the stage low anyway and getting gimps so you wont have to worry about him recovering high if you do your job.)

also the ridiculous amount of theorycrafting in this thread (and on smashboards in general) is a bit ridiculous. Acting like getting falco off stage should mean hes dead. It takes practice and skill to edgeguard. Most people aren't perfect and falco wont always die like he should, but some people are close.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

scrub troll is scrub.

come to IL, ill take any money you want to throw my way

im sure kels and tink will be pestering you the whole time too, so bring extra.

tl;dr umad?

 

[Pi]

samus' recov is certainly not overrated

And marth can't gimp samus worth ****

He can cover all her options from the ledge, but can't do much to prevent her from grabbing it.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

uhhh theres a trick, i forgot which samus player told me about it, but marth lets himself get hit by the beam and then upbs and it hits her lol. could probably do the same thing with any character with a sex kick to similar effect.

for her upb, all of marth's normal stuff applies though its a small window for hitting her. the only redeeming factor of her upb is that its really hard to edgehog

 

[KAOSTAR]

overrated doesn't mean bad. its just nothing to pedestal.

marth can keep samus from grabbing the ledge. you just have to be patient, don't over commit, and choose your moves.

samus R is top 3 for sure. but characters like m2 you might as will let them recover lol.

 

[1048576]

Pichu's sweetspot is much smaller than Pikachu's, so going to the edge against, say, a Falco d-smash will get you hit, whereas you'll get ledge with Pikachu.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

i dont understand. im sure falco's dsmash would hit both characters.

pichu has more angles on the control stick that he can move in. also, ICG always goes on about a double upb that pichu can do (and not pika).

 

[KAOSTAR]

i dont understand. im sure falco's dsmash would hit both characters.

pichu has more angles on the control stick that he can move in. also, ICG always goes on about a double upb that pichu can do (and not pika).

pikachu can also double up b.

if his sweety spot is smaller im convinced that pikachu has an overall better recovery.

I didn't know pichu had more available angles tho.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

yea i found that out on the original official recovery tier list (the one from like 06 or w/e). Thats the entire reason they and by extension me have put pichu above pika.

tbh i dont really care either way XD

 

[Stevo]

I'd say Pikachu is better

hitbox on up-b and more speed = better imo

 

[GOD!]

yeah let me jjust drive 15 hours to take money from some random looool

tldr yur a scrub

if you dont care then stop posting

I like kaostars list except falcon and zelda should both be middle tier. It's a big mid tier but oh well.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

immad

thought so. sliq

 

[Pi]

uhhh theres a trick, i forgot which samus player told me about it, but marth lets himself get hit by the beam and then upbs and it hits her lol. could probably do the same thing with any character with a sex kick to similar effect.

for her upb, all of marth's normal stuff applies though its a small window for hitting her. the only redeeming factor of her upb is that its really hard to edgehog

can't tell if sarcastic....
so here
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=270887
yea it was me

but if i max range the grapple won't happen unless they UB while I retract which is not a reactive thing, they'd have to guess/panic

but in all seriousness, if i have my grapple i'm getting back to the stage if that's my intention (as in don't try to grapple, wall jump, dj, bair you or something like that and get hit back off)

 

[GOD!]

thought so. sliq

please scrub stop posting

you dont even know how to put invisible text and you have 5k posts

 

[JPOBS]

did this guy really just try to call someone out on the fact that they "dont even know how to put invisible text" ?

lol oh smashboards

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

can't tell if sarcastic....
so here
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=270887
yea it was me

but if i max range the grapple won't happen unless they UB while I retract which is not a reactive thing, they'd have to guess/panic

but in all seriousness, if i have my grapple i'm getting back to the stage if that's my intention (as in don't try to grapple, wall jump, dj, bair you or something like that and get hit back off)

yeah i know. its really hard to beat a beam, but there are mixups you can do to do it. if you drop and bair them as they airdodge you can take the beam away too.

i wasn't sure if it was you or not, thats why i said i couldn't remember

 

[KirbyKaze]

GOD! is arguably the dumbest person on the boards so don't pay any attention to him LOL.

 

[Doc King]

Since Pichu has a wall jump and he's floatier, he's above Pika by 2 spots.

They're pretty close when it comes to they're recoveries.

 

[Doc King]

samus' recov is certainly not overrated

And marth can't gimp samus worth ****

He can cover all her options from the ledge, but can't do much to prevent her from grabbing it.

Thank you! Finally, someone agrees with me!

 

[1048576]

i dont understand. im sure falco's dsmash would hit both characters.

pichu has more angles on the control stick that he can move in. also, ICG always goes on about a double upb that pichu can do (and not pika).

Please don't make me do art. You will all spit at your computer screens until you die of dehydration. At least, the lucky ones will.

What I mean is Pika will teleport to the edge sooner than Pichu when recovering from above (think Doc's magic hands), so he'll be safe from a short lingering hitbox, whereas Pichu will up-B right into it.

 

[GOD!]

GOD! is arguably the dumbest person on the boards so don't pay any attention to him LOL.

your entire argument just got ***** by hugs so keep digging

 

[KirbyKaze]

your entire argument just got ***** by hugs so keep digging

A few things.

Virtually all of my last posts in the topic were responding (or referring) to PonyLover17320173 or whatever. That's where my little thing with Sveet comes in.

The bulk of my disagreement with him (that "argument", if you will) centered around our dispute on Sheik's recovery. I said that Sheik's recovery is bad because the opponent gets their best combo, punish, grab setup, kill move, whatever (within some reason) whenever she has to recover. In addition to some characters just being able to jump offstage and hit her. He disagreed.

Furthermore, I never even said Samus's recovery was abysmal I just think Pika, Pichu, Peach, Puff, and Mewtwo have better resistance to most forms of edgeguarding and gimping. It seems, at least to me, at high level Pikachu, Pichu, Peach, Mewtwo, and Puff get hit less during recoveries than Samus. They also, on the whole, seem better at transitioning from the ledge to the stage (with the exception of Peach).

Moreover, HugS's "****" of my argument was that "anyone besides Sheik, Samus has a top 3 recovery" which isn't saying anything as far as I'm concerned because he hasn't explained why. He hasn't "argued" anything. If broad, not-very-well-explained statements by pros = compelling argument then I'm just gonna quote Mew2King (more authority figure appeals) when he says "lol Samus recovery is bad it's like I'm gonna bomb jump and it's so slow please hit me".

 

[GOD!]

Yeah cause everyone autocombos sheik once she gets onstage

have you heard of.. DI..

And sheik doesn't have to poof onto the stage

she can go above it, slap the ledge to clear, etc. yur dumb and are playing one-track-mind theorybros.

Lol, I totally agree though that pichu at high level seems to get hit less than sheik at high level.

Ive actually rarely seen a high level pichu get hit out of their recovery lololol

I don't think hugs really needs to explain his argument cause everyone in this thread knows how samus recovers at a high level (if you watch vids at least). But the actual player who does the recovering and has been for like 4 years at a high level will probably know more than you. I'm not sealing an argument, I'm putting weight behind the guy who knows what he's talking about. Over you.

So the odds of you being right over him are about 1 in 1.72E 68 or something. I'll need to get a better calculator to better judge the real odds; this is just a rough guess

yeah hes still your fanboy kk.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Yeah cause everyone autocombos sheik once she gets onstage

I explained how the edgeguard loops work vs her with most characters. It's not theory, it's stuff that happens regularly.

I accounted for the characters (good ones, at any rate) that have issues edgeguarding her. Marth (if the Marth can't hit the waveland tipper) and Peach (because Peach Nair can be ground teched, D-smash has the down-up trick, and that leaves her with D-tilt).

Most other good characters have a counter that can't be DIed effectively to prevent it from working.

have you heard of.. DI..

I have. Sadly it won't save you vs a lot of characters if they get a free "any move they want".

Which, for a lot of them, they do.

And sheik doesn't have to poof onto the stage

she can go above it, slap the ledge to clear, etc. yur dumb and are playing one-track-mind theorybros.

This can all be systematically covered. I say this from my experience in real matches, not theory bros. Slapping the edge will get you ledgehop Baired (or worse) vs a lot of people.

The only character I'm "theorybroing" for edgeguarding vs Sheik is the ICs because I've never played one in tournament except Trail and he mostly killed me with throw combos or smashes onstage... I attribute this largely to the fact that it was Yoshi's Story. I sort of just assumed they could CG Sheik from 0-60 vs her recovery at low percent if she's hit off early (since SoPo can CG her from 0-60) and eventually switch to D-smashes (or U-smash in KO percent).

Lol, I totally agree though that pichu at high level seems to get hit less than sheik at high level.

Ive actually rarely seen a high level pichu get hit out of their recovery lololol

I was comparing Samus to Pichu.

I don't think hugs really needs to explain his argument cause everyone in this thread knows how samus recovers at a high level (if you watch vids at least). But the actual player who does the recovering and has been for like 4 years at a high level will probably know more than you. I'm not sealing an argument, I'm putting weight behind the guy who knows what he's talking about. Over you.

Videos are a crappy argument IMO but if we're going to go down that route can I refer to M2K vs HugS in Marth Samus on FD?

So the odds of you being right over him are about 1 in 1.72E 68 or something. I'll need to get a better calculator to better judge the real odds; this is just a rough guess

I'm interested in how you came up with that statistic.

At any rate, if you're appealing to HugS on this I'll just appeal to M2K on it? Since M2K is the better player he must be right? He's been edgeguarding for years at high level so he must be right.

edit: Continuing on this line of thinking, Mew2King openly states he feels Sheik's recovery is garbage. Your rebuttal?

 

[XAQ]

mario and doc are terrible. kirby and pichu have great recovery

 

[KirbyKaze]

mario and doc are terrible. kirby and pichu have great recovery

._____________________.

No.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

kirby only has what 2 jumps off stage a fair or 2 and up-B spot-dodge but if he's hit out of up-B(once can sweestpot) he'll lose all his jumps. he's a big slow predictable target that kills himself. sheik's recovery is better I think but maybe i'm thinking that because sheik has better edge options.

Also i've never heard of a high level pichu who knows how to recover. Also I doubt this guy even knows half the pichu recovery junk. Even if i suck I know a s*** lot about pichu's recovery. overall you shouldn't ever really get edge gaurded unless you're super far away at whichmost people would side-B the other way and kill themselfes. but pichu can recovery really far/fast at the range of needing only 1 jump you can't effiveively edge gaurd him. also he can recover near the blastzone of FD thanks to the simple double up-B

 

[KAOSTAR]

Kirby is like samus...with no bombs. puff with no pound. just bad really.

I honestly can see somebody making an argument for every-time samus recovers she takes damage which makes her recovery kinda bad. still good, but could place pikachu and pichu above kinda bad.

zeldas recovery is kinda coo. sheiks is dumb. grab ledge and hit her off stage again when she lands.

 

[GOD!]

m2k is probably right but not for your stupid reasons. It's not a great recovery but you don't get zero deathed once you get back on stage.

Speaking of DIing, mango said that in the future there will be way fewer combos cause people will learn to DI.

So if you want to play that game ok.

Videos are great for seeing how a lot of different people are successful in different ways for the same character, ans seeing how they are successful. Like watching ihsb, hugs, and phanna all recover. Uh yeah its pretty useful actually

You actually dont know anything about pichus recovery at top level. No one does, unless you want to say pichus recovery = pikachus minus a hitbox plus length. And pichus recovery is definitely not as good as samus anyway. There's no way anyone can say one of the other definitely. But samus can make it back from pretty much anything, get hit and do it again. pichus and pikachus are good, quick, and have options, but if the person takes away the ledge from you you have to go onstage. If they have the ledge and ledgehop something, you're gonna get hit and go flying... theorybros oh yeah. and you are playing it here to cause guess whaaaaaaattt?

you aren't playing any high level pichus. or are you.....

lol edgeguard loops actually rarely happen. only work 23.4% of the time. all you do is say they work, i say I don't see it and look at vids and its not there, I see people play and its not there either.

 

[N64]

whaaaaaaa

someone get this kid out of here.

pikachu's recovery is fantastic and pichu's is as well. I don't see how someone has to be a 'high level pichu' to show how he can recover. You hit up + B and then pick two directions. **** ain't hard.

 

[KAOSTAR]

43.6% of what GOD says is wrong.