Quick Question, Quick Answer Thread

[Indigo Jeans]

Well, I'm just going to repost this here, to see if I get an answer.

RABit 16 = if hit and button held OR if button press goto next jab in sequence
RABit 17 = if button held go to next jab in sequence (doesn't require hit or release and press to transition)
RABit 20 = as RA16 except transitions into the rapid jab
RABit 22 = if button press goto jabx1

that's how they work afaik


Not only did I already do the jab analysis but iirc I gave it to rPSI!

rPSI we should talk...... I guess tomorrow night cause that's the next time I'll be at all free. Microbiology and trying to get another jab are keeping me maaad busy.

Just to clarify what the bits mean...

RABit 16:

Spoiler

Bit is set on so and so frame, and if the opponent was hit and the button is held, Jab2 automatically starts. Or, bit is set on so and so frame after you jab but don't connect, and pressing the button again AFTER the frame the bit is set activates Jab2.

E.g. Jab1 has RABit 16 set on frame 8. If...

-opponent is hit on frame 3 and the button is held, as soon as frame 8 comes around the next jab is initiated

-or if button is pressed and released and jab misses, after frame 8, pressing the button again will start Jab2, but if you press the button again before frame 8, nothing happens.

RABit 17: Jabs like ZSSamus, Snake, Squirtle, etc. Bit is set on frame 1, and holding the button will repeat Jab1.

RABit 20: Like Falcon's jab.

RABit 22: idk.

Am I getting the general gist of it?

Also, slightly off topic, but I'd like to know: how does RABit 16 behave/affect aerials?

Edit: Sort of confused by ROB's Jab1...

Here's the OSA info

Asynchronous Timer - Frames=2.00x,
Offensive Collision - Bone/ID=0x2E0000, Damage=0x3, Trajectory=0x64, Base Knockback=0x46, Knockback Growth=0x4, Size=3.00x, Z Offset=-7.00x, Y Offset=0.00x, X Offset=-1.00x, Tripping Rate=0.00x, Hitlag Multiplier=1.00x, SDI Multiplier=1.00x, Hitbox Flags=0x39030400,

Offensive Collision - Bone/ID=0x2E0001, Damage=0x3, Trajectory=0x169, Base Knockback=0x46, Knockback Growth=0x5, Size=4.00x, Z Offset=-2.00x, Y Offset=0.00x, X Offset=-1.00x, Tripping Rate=0.00x, Hitlag Multiplier=1.00x, SDI Multiplier=1.00x, Hitbox Flags=0x39030400,

Offensive Collision - Bone/ID=0x2E0002, Damage=0x3, Trajectory=0x169, Base Knockback=0x46, Knockback Growth=0x14, Size=4.00x, Z Offset=0.00x, Y Offset=0.00x, X Offset=-2.00x, Tripping Rate=0.00x, Hitlag Multiplier=1.00x, SDI Multiplier=1.00x, Hitbox Flags=0x39030400,

Offensive Collision - Bone/ID=0xA0003, Damage=0x3, Trajectory=0x169, Base Knockback=0x46, Knockback Growth=0x1E, Size=4.00x, Z Offset=0.00x, Y Offset=0.00x, X Offset=0.00x, Tripping Rate=0.00x, Hitlag Multiplier=1.00x, SDI Multiplier=1.00x, Hitbox Flags=0x39010400,

Asynchronous Timer - Frames=6.00x,
Terminate Collisions
Asynchronous Timer - Frames=9.00x,
Bit Variable Set - RA-Bit[16],
Asynchronous Timer - Frames=13.00x,
Asynchronous Timer - Frames=20.00x,
Allow Interrupt

ugh, I copied that by hand... clipboard dump did nothing

Anyhow, what I'm confused about is why ROB's Jab1 has 4 hitboxes, and what's up with the fourth. Does this have anything to do with how the top of Jab1 has minimal reverse KB and the inside has decent outward KB? Also, how would I record data for that?

Gad, I'm so sorry for being so incompetent with this. :< Please forgive me and help me out?

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Anyone know how I would go about editing G&W's Chef to not get buffer-****ed? By that, I am referring to when Chef loops into itself 5 times when it's buffered and only stops when you input chef again. I was messing around with it in PSA, and I couldn't find something that would stop this.

Any ideas?

 

[Luxor]

If you need it for testing purposes, just use B+ codes to set buffer to 0.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

It's not, I want to know exactly WHY it happens. What line references it to default into looping when buffered. It's partly curiosity. I'm gonna be hacking away swathes of code in a bit to narrow my search down.

Edit: Okay, rPSI figured it out. It's an issue in the subroutine 1acdc. Lines 6/7/8 for those curious.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Can someone tell me how in the world I find articles? Like you know, those projectiles and items that every character loves having. I'm bored and want to edit attacks in PSA, but I don't yet know how to edit projectiles. =(

Plus Bowser's Firebreath leaves me clueless in PSA.

EDIT: *facepalm* found my answer fooling around in OSA2 which does give you article offset numbers.

EDIT2: Can't find Link's Bombs...

 

[phi1ny3]

Doesn't marth tipper fsmash ignore certain DI mechanics because of "true cinematic" frames?

 

[Luxor]

EDIT2: Can't find Link's Bombs...

IIRC it's not an article (like an extension of the character itself) but an item, since it's not locked into being part of Link.

Doesn't marth tipper fsmash ignore certain DI mechanics because of "true cinematic" frames?

MARTH FSMASH
Subaction Main0x58
@14D70

-----------|START|--------------------------
Asynchronous Timer - Frames=7.00x, 
Offensive Collision - Bone/ID=0x410000, Damage=0xE, Trajectory=0x169, Base Knockback=0x46, Knockback Growth=0x3C, Size=3.00x, Z Offset=0.00x, Y Offset=0.00x, X Offset=2.00x, Tripping Rate=0.00x, Hitlag Multiplier=0.70x, SDI Multiplier=1.00x, Hitbox Flags=0x3A830682, 
Offensive Collision - Bone/ID=0x410001, Damage=0xE, Trajectory=0x169, Base Knockback=0x46, Knockback Growth=0x3C, Size=3.00x, Z Offset=0.00x, Y Offset=0.00x, X Offset=5.00x, Tripping Rate=0.00x, Hitlag Multiplier=0.70x, SDI Multiplier=1.00x, Hitbox Flags=0x3A830682, 
Offensive Collision - Bone/ID=0x3D0002, Damage=0xE, Trajectory=0x169, Base Knockback=0x46, Knockback Growth=0x3C, Size=4.00x, Z Offset=0.00x, Y Offset=0.00x, X Offset=0.00x, Tripping Rate=0.00x, Hitlag Multiplier=0.70x, SDI Multiplier=1.00x, Hitbox Flags=0x3A830682, 
Offensive Collision - Bone/ID=0x190003, Damage=0xE, Trajectory=0x169, Base Knockback=0x46, Knockback Growth=0x3C, Size=3.00x, Z Offset=0.00x, Y Offset=0.00x, X Offset=0.00x, Tripping Rate=0.00x, Hitlag Multiplier=0.70x, SDI Multiplier=1.00x, Hitbox Flags=0x3A830682, 
Offensive Collision - Bone/ID=0x410004, Damage=0x13, Trajectory=0x169, Base Knockback=0x46, Knockback Growth=0x50, Size=3.00x, Z Offset=0.00x, Y Offset=0.00x, X Offset=9.00x, Tripping Rate=0.00x, Hitlag Multiplier=1.50x, SDI Multiplier=0.00x, Hitbox Flags=0x3A831082, 
Asynchronous Timer - Frames=11.00x, 
Terminate Collisions
Asynchronous Timer - Frames=47.00x, 
Allow Interrupt
----------------------------|END|-----------

All of the hits but the last one are non-tipper, allow SDI, and have a hitlag multiplier of .7 (meaning SDI will be harder in practice). The last hit, the tipper, has much more KBG, has a hitlag multiplier of 1.5 ("cinematic" hitlag), and doesn't allow any SDI. It's not a cause-->effect relationship, but it is true.

 

[T-block]

Does cinematic refer to the fact that there's more hitlag than usual, or the fact that the victim cannot SDI? I always thought it was the latter.

 

[Yikarur]

for me cinematic hitlag was just like the name, hitlag you can see but you aren't able to SDI.

 

[A2ZOMG]

It's not "cinematic hitlag". It's just a hitbox with an SDI multiplier of 0 and a high hitlag modifier.

 

[Luxor]

Yup, cinematic hitlag isn't a meaningful technical term. Describing hitbubbles in terms of HLM and SDIM is better.

 

[T-block]

That's what I thought... Luxor your post made it sound like it was meant to be a move that had more hitlag than usual =P

 

[phi1ny3]

K, good to know.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Mebbe a list with moves that have an SDI multiplier of 0 and visible hitlag would be nice?

So far I know about Zelda's thunderkicks and Falcon's knees. Not so sure about yellow pikmin or thunderstomp, but stuff like Bowser FSmash is definately SDI-able.

In fact, I can prolly have this up by tomorrow through OSA. :D

 

[phi1ny3]

Falcon knees are unfortunately imbued with what the layman call "false cinematic" hitlag. They are in fact, very SDIable:
<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/hB1kaL01_cw?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/hB1kaL01_cw?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

 

[Indigo Jeans]

So I was wondering.

How much is known about the exact mechanics behind shuttle cancelling? Today as I was messing around with it, I thought, "Hey, this is a LOT like Ganon's SJR," because when you're in the window in which shuttle is cancel able, you are registered as airborne, which shouldn't be the case, seeing as you can shuttle once again.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Shuttle canceling?

 

[Yikarur]

if you use upB under a specific height under the ground or a platform so that the loop ends with you being a bit over the ground you go over to a "in air" state and can shuttle loop again or land lagless.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Ahh... can some one get me a frame map to be able to do it @ a specific stage?

 

[Luxor]

I could try.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

You want to initiate shuttle loop around the general vicinity of the red dot, where the little lump from around the crystal smooths out into a flat underside on the left of the stage, while facing left.

If you do it right, MK will be in shuttle cancel on the main stage, where you shuttle loop again, landing you on the leftmost platform, allowing you to shuttle loop AGAIN. But the cancel state is what I'm really interested in.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

I wanted a frame map of where he lands at. >.> Knowing which frame could be essential.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Errr, about the frame map...

Apparently my bro decided to go ahead and update our Wii to v4.3U. Hacking became a no-go blah blah blah. I tried to rehack my Wii by today, but it's a super long process. :/ Probably going to do this tomorrow then.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Use Stack Smash.

 

[JOE!]

did the whole "lets meet on skype" thing ever go down?

 

[A2ZOMG]

By the way, how can I find my own data for Brawl's items? This is going back to how I want to find Link's Bombs, but at any rate, I just really want to know what I need to find raw item data.

Plus, anywhere I can find Nana's PAC?

Random thing that just occurred to me: Unless I'm mistaken, the 20/22 dodges that belong to Falco, Link, Toon Link, and Yoshi are actually the result of programming errors. Those spotdodges that are listed are programmed to be interruptible on frame 25 like most normal spotdodges, but probably don't work that way since their full animation actually ends earlier than that.

 

[T-block]

Hey rPSI, you should probably delete those links.

 

[thexsunrosered]

Hey rPSI, you should probably delete those links.

lol swift thinking. yeah I'm curious about that spot dodge thing too o.O

 

[Yikarur]

any idea how to read Pummel Data in PSA?


CatchAttack
-----------|START|--------------------------
Asynchronous Timer - Frames=5,00x,
Special Offensive Collision - 0x260000, 0x2, 0x50, 0x1E0064, 0x0, 5,76x, 3,20x, 1,60x, 0,00x, 0,00x, 1,00x, 1,00x, 0x33830400, 0x0, 0x84FFFC3,
Synchronous Timer - Frames=1,00x,
Terminate Collisions
Asynchronous Timer - Frames=15,00x,
Bit Variable Set - RA-Bit[16],
----------------------------|END|-----------

the frames makes no sense to me
Start-up is 5 frames like stated.
6-10 is hitlag
20 ist first actionable frame.
I don't know what the Synchronous Timer and the last Asynchronious timer means as well as the bit variable. D:

I'm looking for this because I realized that Pummel counts as one move if you input the next pummel in the IASA frames. If you input the pummel after the animation completly ends if counts as another pummel. (important for stale stuff)
but the data I searched for doesn't seem to be there.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I'm very certain that the RA-bit[16] indicates the first actionable frame for repeating a pummel (or doing a throw?), and it makes perfect sense that since you have 5 frames of hitlag, instead of frame 15 being the first actionable frame, you add 5 to make that frame 20.

The synchronous timer makes the hitbox last 2 frames (frames 5-6 or accounting hitlag, frames 5-11). From there it takes 9 frames to reach the next Asynchronous timer.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

OK, I've got a question about frame advance.

It's giving me grief when I want to input more than one action per debug pause session. For example, when I input Jab1, then wait for RA Bit 16 to roll around, and input Jab2, nothing happens.

Or when I'm testing for optimal SHDL timing, the second laser isn't read.

OR when I want to test for Snake's DACUS window, DA won't cancel.

OOORRRR when I want to test the FAF I can shoot my gyro during a charge/aerial out of UpB. Won't work either.

Any idea how I can fix this? Maybe the input requirements are a little different in frame advance?

 

[Yikarur]

the inputs are very easily actually.
I would be interesting to know what you are inputting, I can't correct your inputs if I don't know what you're inputting.

DACUS would be
1: Stick left
2: Stick Neutral + Attack
3: release Attack
4: up + attack

You have to explain me the rest with the input's you're trying to do so that I can help you.

 

[Veril]

^^ that wouldn't work (necessarily) Indigo I'll be free tomorrow @3, we should talk then.

One thing I've noticed is that frame advance will not read the same input 2 frames in a row in certain situations.

Also, with the jab testing, are you testing on hit or on whiff? Who's jab? And you are inputting on the frame before RA16 is set right (flow frame).

 

[Yikarur]

One thing I've noticed is that frame advance will not read the same input 2 frames in a row in certain situations.

always, same input 2 frames in a row = hold

 

[A2ZOMG]

Frame advance always reads an input if basically give a "turbo" input where every other frame has the input of the button you want to buffer.

 

[KayLo!]

I dunno if there're any European researchers here, but: is there a PAL version of the frame advance + button modifier code? I know someone from the UK who's really into frame data, but he can't do in-game frame testing.

I'm not much into hacks, and I definitely don't follow PAL stuff, so..... thought I'd ask here.

 

[Yikarur]

there is no european code for this. I use NTSC Brawl.

 

[KayLo!]

Aw, that sucks.

 

[saviorslegacy]

I need a thread that talks about the moving platform cancel.
I do not know like anything about this tech and I want to learn.

 

[Luxor]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=285479
Best resource I could find, and still not all that great.