Quick Question, Quick Answer Thread

[Luxor]

Back with findings. The first and last hits are easily SDI'ed, but the stuff in the middle is weird. I think it has something to do with how the hitboxes refresh themself every 5 frames to hit you up, but you fall down when you're not getting hit, compounded by the fact that the hitlag seems to be minimal. I tried most of this on the grounded nado; against the aerial nado it seemed easier to get up and DJ out.
tl;dr Nado is weird.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

My quick question: What are the conditions that need to be met to refract projectiles off of your shield? Is it just a certain frame, or certain projectiles only? I never heard much about this occurrence, even though it's not particularly rare, so I'm just pretty curious about it on the whole.

Someone care to fill me in?

 

[leafgreen386]

I'm pretty sure it's just a function of the angle of approach and angle of the part of the shield it hits, which is why it's usually seen when a projectile hits the top or bottom of the shield.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Mach Tornado is definitely SDIable. Jigglypuff players have a long running trick of SDIing up and then using Rest. It's just that you generally can't SDI very far is all.

Some multi-hit moves that hit very fast generally have problems with you trying to SDI out. An obvious example is Kirby's rapid jab against a wall. Situations can arise wherein you simply cannot SDI out. Even in frame by frame, you just don't SDI far enough to combat being pushed into the wall by the jabs.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

So I was thinking then, is SDI-ability a function of damage, knockback, and hitstun? It would make sense, seeing as relatively large SDI teleports are seen with powerful attacks. Is there some kind of formula for this, maybe quantifying SDI-ability in 1/20th stage block units?

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Not a function of KB IIRC. Infact it's only a function of hitlag (which is derived from damage).

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Well gosh at least I was on the right track.

Also, should I take the time to write out a term definition for "airwalking"? That is, when a character goes offstage just barely, so that they can drift back onto the stage. I think it would be a good writeup.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Go ahead on that Indigo.

 

[KayLo!]

Somehow I lost the file for the custom stage with the measurement grid texture. Can someone link me to it again? -____- SWF's search function is ***.

Nevermind, found it.

 

[phi1ny3]

I'm probably going to use AIM to contact some of the more experienced members here regarding how to tally advantage on "aura" modifiers.

 

[Pikabunz]

Going back the SDI'ing Tornado subject. Watch the vid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kAX5O1ftpo

If I'm wrong then please explain to me how to SDI tornado.

Bonus vid! :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv4UimAHlms

 

[Luxor]

When you're doing frame advantage, is the frame advantage their FAF - your FAF (time between actions) or their FAF - your FAF -1 (the number of "free" frames you really have)?

 

[phi1ny3]

does anyone mind a long but relatively boring dissertation on aura when I get around to it?

 

[Luxor]

Also, it's commonly said that can can't buffer Uair out of a short hop. It seems that you can if you soft tilt the stick up- there's a range where you'll get Nair, and a range where you'll get Usmash, but in between- you get Uair. Is this actually "buffered" or am I seeing things?

 

[rPSIvysaur]

That is a buffered u-air.

 

[Veril]

When you're doing frame advantage, is the frame advantage their FAF - your FAF (time between actions) or their FAF - your FAF -1 (the number of "free" frames you really have)?

Defender FAF - Attacker FAF


You can buffer upair, its just tricky with tapjump on.

does anyone mind a long but relatively boring dissertation on aura when I get around to it?

Do it <3

 

[Luxor]

I have too many questions >.<

I'm having trouble understanding how frames fit into the the precharge->postcharge in smash attacks. I can get the precharge duration from BBox and the postcharge from PSA, but it seems like adding the precharge duration to the first hitframe of the attack gives you an answer one frame slow. To get the first "overall" hitframe, do you take precharge duration + first postcharge hitframe - 1? That would make sense if the last frame of precharge is the input frame/frame 0 of the postcharge.

 

[Veril]

The first part of the special offensive collision flag is unique to MK's nado and the strong aerial hit of Bowser's downb, possibly it occurs on a few other moves but its rare and tbh I don't know what makes the nado unSDIable.

Help me figure it out?

To get the first "overall" hitframe, do you take precharge duration + first postcharge hitframe - 1? That would make sense if the last frame of precharge is the input frame/frame 0 of the postcharge.

(Precharge duration - 1)+postcharge hitframe= actual earliest hitframe

that's what I would use

ex. Lucas f-smash precharge duration is 8 and postcharge hits frame 7, but its actual Hit1 is frame 14

 

[Luxor]

That fits in with what I saw in frame advance, thanks.

 

[phi1ny3]

PSI/Veril, do you use AIM?

 

[DtJ Hilt]

rPSI, you stated somewhere that hitstun is character dependent (meaning, when Character A uses an attack on Character B, it will deal X amount of hitstun, while when Character A uses that same attack on Character C, it will deal a different amount of hitstun). How sure are you that this is true? I know that hitstun is dependent on the percentage of the opponent and the staleness of the attack, but I am pretty sure that what character is being attacked does not affect it.

Am I wrong?

 

[Veril]

You are wrong ;p

sorta

bkb induced hitstun is the same for all characters at all % (bkb*.4 frames)

Hitstun (kbg/dmg/∂kb/%) DOES vary based on a character's weight value. IE, the rate of hitstun growth is character weight dependent. I have experimentally confirmed this more times than I care to list as have many other researchers. Keep in mind some characters have the same weight (Pikachu and MK for example).

staleness only matters in that it reduces damage, which in turn will lower the hitstun growth rate.

Worth noting is that tumble % and hitstun are closely related, and that weight is the determining factor in when a move induces tumble. This is part of why DDD's infinites work on some characters and not others (the other component being character hurtbox size iirc).

 

[Luxor]

Where in OSA2/PSA do I look for a character's Zair?

 

[rPSIvysaur]

It's under the animation AirCatch I think. It's around AX IIRC

 

[KayLo!]

Sooo, I downloaded the STGEDIT_1 .pac file.... now where do I put it on my SD card? And what stage does it replace?

Hacks really aren't my thing.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that the file was for the stage with measuring blocks on it.

 

[KayLo!]

Nevermind, I figured it out. -___________- I'm slow.

 

[JOE!]

Hmm, do you think I shoudl make charts for Melee and maybe even 64 characters as well?

It would be interesteing to compare the damage output of characters through the games...


that is, if there is even frame data for melee and 64 <.<

 

[Yikarur]

there is, but it's absolute unnecessary for us (imo) but of course you can do it if you want =D but I think it's hard to find complete frame data of both. (I saw complete SSB64 frame data somewhere, but not much melee)

 

[Luxor]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=286376

What do we actually know about shield poking?

 

[KayLo!]

I'm actually really interested in this too..... I've played around with pokes, but mainly from a gameplay perspective, not a research/technical one.

Imo, shield poking has a ton of use in some matchups...... including vs. MK. Definitely worth looking into, and if someone wants to head a project on it, I'd definitely be up for joining.

 

[Luxor]

Yeah, this is something both technical and actually applicable to gameplay. Do you want to co-lead a project on it or something?

 

[KayLo!]

I would, but I'm usually pretty busy. I'm worried that I wouldn't be able to put enough time into it, which is why I offered to help with but not lead anything.

 

[Yikarur]

Yeah, this is something both technical and actually applicable to gameplay. Do you want to co-lead a project on it or something?

what kind of project is this going to be?

 

[Luxor]

Shieldpoking. Not that it applies to Yoshi lol.

 

[Yikarur]

Shieldpoking. Not that it applies to Yoshi lol.

lol

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11161115&postcount=34

=D

 

[Luxor]

Lol, Yoshi's shield really is fail. At least he has a good spotdodge...

 

[Veril]

Lol, Yoshi's shield really is fail. At least he has a good spotdodge...

Actually almost every spotdodge is identical in psa in regards to inv and FAF: inv 2-20, iasa 26. Yoshi has that spotdodge. Marth is the only one I noted as being flat out superior (iasa 25)

 

[Yikarur]

Yoshi has a 2-20 / 22 spotdodge.
Invincibility / last frame. 23 is faf.

 

[Pikabunz]

Pikachu, Falco, Link, TLink, and Yoshi all have the 2-20/22 spotdodge.

 

[Yikarur]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVs_j3X9k10

any idea how that works?