Q&A thread ASK QUESTIONS HERE.

[PEACE7]

I see thanks for the tips.

 

[HotWings]

Hey, im trying to figure out the counterpick for all characters so im going to all the Q&A threads of all the characters and posting this. I would like for you to give me your characters worst MU and worst stage so it saves me a lot of time researching it myself and testing stuff.

I would really appreciate it if you all helped me out.

Hope to get some answers pretty soon.

 

[hichez50]

lucario worst match-up is probally MK and DDD.

I have noticed that many good MK players punish lucario's recovery with a up-B everytime. There is nothing lucario can do other than just stay on stage and no get knocked off. Anyone know how to counter this?

 

[phi1ny3]

The dumb thing is that it depends on how high you're starting when offstage, I tend to dair stall a lot to make them run out of jumps and throw off their timing, while still being significantly high in terms of recovering, it doesn't work so well if you're down below/directly parallel with the stage lip, although dair stall is also useful if you feel you can move just barely outside of a MK's aerial. You basically get boned if you're forced to use upB, but if you have a jump/can move across from above, the absolute best thing is to AD across and above him when he SLs, because it pretty much ends most of the edgeguarding threat if you can do that (SL is very rewarding, but takes a lot of commitment, hence why Anti always waited until Lucario ran out of every option against Trela). This is a very common tactic used by a lot of chars against SL gimping, and you'll see videos where Zucco and Junebug do this a lot, it's a saving grace.

Save that second jump, and DI really well, those are the best things you can do for the MU. Recovering low isn't too bad either, but only for the sake of mixing it up.

If not, oh boy...

MK imo is better off doing this option than chasing you offstage, it's very 08, but it still works in this MU lol. What's really ridiculous is if they cancel the upB into the very tip of the lip so it turns it into a ledgehog at the end (looks really flashy though lol)

imo snake should be up there in "worst MUs for Lucario" though as well. Trela has tons of Razer exp which should've helped him against Ally at Pound, but Ally 2-0'd him iirc.

@yeldarB: I'm not sure what you mean, do you mean worst combination of counter pick and character, or worst character to fight, and worst CP to play on overall?

 

[culexus・wau]

Snake feels harder and harder then DDD the higher you climb on the skill ladder.

its prob because DDD is so linear.

Snake can **** us up in ways more then just dthrow across the stage and bair us a million times to dthrow upsmash maybe [and no DDD even does dthrow upsmash so its irrelevant for now]

I started playing the match-up again instead of always going zero suit.

I don't think any DDD player has played it perfect yet [some gotten close, BUT NO ONE DOES DTHROW UPSMASH SO DEGEGAGAES].

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Study the arc of MK's Shuttle Loop.

Its kinda '08, but since they love Shuttle Loop soooo much... DAiring their Shuttle Loop.

Its more risky, but if you start to constantly hit them with DAir out of SL they might be inclined to try to Shuttle Loop you less or risk taking a bit of damage.

Edit: I forgot who it was, but I've gotten DThrow USmashed on WiFi over the past month I think.

 

[culexus・wau]

you can dair them on reaction to the shuttle loop sfx if they're trying to ninja shuttle you from below.

it works better/is more reliable when you're directly above mk or slightly off the 90 degree mark.

I would only do it once in a blue moon offstage, but whatever gets you not gimped imo.

If you're really good, you can even footstool the shuttle loop on its arc up, but I've only seen it done a couple of times.

 

[phi1ny3]

oh yeah, dair works too. I do hate missing occasionally though.

Yeah, D3 is all about memorizing and covering as many of the 4 or so options that are avoidable but powerful, that in turn shut down many of yours.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

OH YEAH, forgot about footstooling.

FAir is another option, but you're likely to trade hits at best, unless if you're a ninja.

Turning around with Aura Sphere and then BAir could possibly work too.

DAir stall is the best option until they patiently wait for you near the ledge of the stage... Then you're screwed.

 

[culexus・wau]

On a read you can double team and you'll hit metaknight or at the very least he'll have to glide attack to clank.

if it was 2 frames faster you could do it on reaction, unfortunately its not

I know because the DT SFX comes out before the counterframe actually starts, which is nice, because then I can figure out the times where double team is too slow [I know it I got it out, but the counter-frame didn't come out fast enough]

 

[MARLX]

What is the match up between lucario and falco?

 

[phi1ny3]

Pretty even, Falco and Lucario can do really well in many scenarios, and while Lucario has to approach, Falco's relative inability to kill (relative, he's not as bad at it as Samus for example lol) make this MU really nice for Lucario.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Hmmm just wondering is Shield Drop DTilt safe against a BAiring G&W after the last hit?

 

[Supreme Dirt]

No.

10TeenageMutantNinjaBackAir

 

[Abel1994]

Is their a smart and dumb way to Dair? I just spam the hell out of it.

 

[emery]

I've spent a fair bit of time trying to do breversals but i can't do it to get the full momentum.

 

[D. Disciple]

if you're spamming dair you're doing it the dumb way.

emery - what's your question?

 

[emery]

i want to do a b reversal, but to do it have momentum to move around the stage.
does that sound better?

Edit: Also what's the best thing to do out of shield?

 

[AlexoftheAura]

Roll

Spoiler

10rollinrollirollin

 

[IceDX]

i want to do a b reversal, but to do it have momentum to move around the stage.
does that sound better?

Edit: Also what's the best thing to do out of shield?

to b reversal i think you mean a pivot b?

on the air, move in one direction then press b and then flick the control stick to the oposite direction



the best thing to do out of shield? depends on the situation

example: you just shilded a Dsmash from Mk the best thing to do is jab
but if you just power shielded a dair the best thing to do would be a Nair or Uair

 

[phi1ny3]

^these three things are usually the best things to do oos, you can also mix it up with dair, dash attack, and grab as well, although the latter are a little situational/require a lot of lag from the opponent to punish properly.

basically, roll, aerials oos, grab for mispaced stuff, and jab should take care of most of your needs. Oh and utilt is great for when people are trying to cross up behind your shield.

 

[earla]

lucarios frame data doesn't seem complete.

where is shield advantage for his aerials?
where is his ledge options data?

how many frames is his jump?
wheres is roll/spotdodge/airdodge data?

thanks

 

[phi1ny3]

The problem with shield advantage is you have to calculate for aura, and account for spacing since aerials move often, so an attack that's a -8 on the ground and vulnerable to shield grabs is now potentially safe on block because of an aerial's capacity to move while attacking, I've been wanting to test them, but it's a pretty big undertaking

Umm, roll/spotdodge/air dodge should be in the frame data thread, if not, I should add it, since I already know the figures

Jump is frame 6, I also thought that was in the data thread.

ledge options is what I plan on working on next, although I'll tell you one thing, < 100% is usually better (especially for lucario considering his reach on his <100 attack), but know that you have no invincibility frames during the attack, which makes it vulnerable to someone just coming down on you with an aerial as punishment, although both are mega unsafe on block .

edit: yeah, the ones I mentioned are in there already, you just have to look more carefully, it's in the "Misc." data.

 

[Browny]

EARL

Hi You learning luc? :o

 

[phi1ny3]

Oh yeah and you have to account for FF aerials and weaker hitboxes. Yeah, aerials I'm not sure I have the time for doing, or I can try to field people to do one of each

The others I should be able to do fine.

@Browny: is he an AU smasher?

 

[Browny]

Earlbot is the king

 

[IceDX]

Earlbot is the king

wha...?? 0_0

 

[Nicks]

what are lucarios best 3 team mates?
I assuming mk is one of them... but what are the other two?
thanks

 

[Yikarur]

Yoshi da bess team mate 8D

 

[Browny]

Lucarios best teammates are people who can and WILL plank hard for lucarios first few stocks.

Good luck finding anyone who can do that though. Few ever succeed.

 

[Yikarur]

Yoshi Edge Cancelled Eggs all time =D

 

[IceDX]

what are lucarios best 3 team mates?
I assuming mk is one of them... but what are the other two?
thanks

aside from mk lucarios best team mate would be GnW imo

and maybe wario..

basically characters that can stay alive the longest Mk and GnW can plank pretty well and well wario can just play a ¨stay away¨ game for the whole match

 

[Alus]

Dunno about you guys but i like D3 and Mario cape shenanigans.

 

[IceDX]

Dunno about you guys but i like D3 and Mario cape shenanigans.

mario can plank well, but what is he gonna do agaist an opposing mk?
and that goes for ddd as well

*at least 98% of teams have mk on them..

 

[Nicks]

does anyone know exactly how lucarios aura works in doubles? i.e. anubis strategy

 

[IceDX]

does anyone know exactly how lucarios aura works in doubles? i.e. anubis strategy

i know
what exactly do you wanna know about it?

here is a breif explanation:

In Doubles, the aura works the same way as a 4 player battle.
it powers up if you have less stocks than every other player including your teammate.
this means you can have your team be in the lead and still have lucario's power stronger.
but at the same time, if your teammate is in a worse position than where you are,
lucario's power might become weak and also be in a bad position as a team.

 

[Browny]

Nicks, do you have the guts to plank for 3 minutes straight?

If you do, prove it. Time out people repeatedly in friendlies. Unless you can do that, you cant handle the anubis strategy's girth.

Im being serious btw. Ive tried anubis with a variety of partners. They all say they can handle the rule of the super stock tank, but they always get impatient, greedy and lose the match in one moment of stupidity. Its not easy as it sounds

 

[Steam]

^ this is why I don't run hardcore anubis

I team with a RoB and just have him ledge plank and shoot lasers. he'll usually be at kinda high damage first stock when I get to last stock... but in exchange I actually get support my first two stocks, which helps tons when MKs are trying to gimp me.

 

[IceDX]

Nicks, do you have the guts to plank for 3 minutes straight?

If you do, prove it. Time out people repeatedly in friendlies. Unless you can do that, you cant handle the anubis strategy's girth.

Im being serious btw. Ive tried anubis with a variety of partners. They all say they can handle the rule of the super stock tank, but they always get impatient, greedy and lose the match in one moment of stupidity. Its not easy as it sounds

its works pretty well if you have two good people teaming with each other but it does needs a little practice to perfect.

*i dont see why you should just bash someone like that

 

[Browny]

I aint bashing anyone, its a dead honest warning to save him losing time, matches and money.

It takes A LOT of practice and its either go hard or go home. This strat fails unless both players are 100% focused to sticking it out, especially as it may involve planking for half the match.

-

Nicks do you have msn?