PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[FoxLisk]

Wouldnt dair oos **** that dash attack thing, m2k?

 

[tarheeljks]

0:47- Did the Dair too early, and you should have moved or kept hitting Peach(not with uptilt! they bait that) instead of shielding.

thought utilt would be the best option, so can you expound on this some? better to dair, nair or just bail on it entirely

that convo between m2k and pp was one of the most interesting things i've ever read

yeah definitely

 

[KirbyKaze]

m2k and pp's little thingamabob was fun to read

 

[Druggedfox]

Wouldnt dair oos **** that dash attack thing, m2k?

If falco ever dash attacks marth's shield, marth can wavedash backwards and grab falco 100% of the time.

Against a marth player who actually knows the matchup, dash attackin with the intention of baiting a shieldgrab or anything is a pretty terrible idea.

 

[KILLA.FOR.CASH.]

marth's shield suuuuuuuuuuucks vs falco. if you get caught in your shield as marth vs falco, if you don't roll you'll get shieldpoked eventually if the falco shield pressures. this causes marths to do stuff outta shield in desperation, but then they just get shined and like OMG WTF combo'd every time

 

[Dr Peepee]

M2k: iono why you think FoD is in marths favor v falco. Srsly

I understand high ceiling and big blast zones but its platforms are PERFECT for pillar combos, the ledges are sexy for techs and its a small, close range stage. Falco eats that **** for brkfst, lunch and dinner.

Lasering gets ***** by platforms, and the varying platform height can screw with combos too. Also Marth deals with all of that just fine because platforms only give his sword better reach. Also also, that stage is small so big sword on small stage ****+chances of gimping/being by the edge are higher.

thought utilt would be the best option, so can you expound on this some? better to dair, nair or just bail on it entirely

They come out of stun from Dairs around that % and start to float to bait the Uptilt then FC an aerial on Falco's head. Better to just move or try to SHFFL an aerial.

marth's shield suuuuuuuuuuucks vs falco. if you get caught in your shield as marth vs falco, if you don't roll you'll get shieldpoked eventually if the falco shield pressures. this causes marths to do stuff outta shield in desperation, but then they just get shined and like OMG WTF combo'd every time

Marth's shield is amazing vs Falco when used correctly. Unless the Falco you're fighting is multishining, then there are many holes in Falco's shield pressure that are only successful if you don't recognize those holes/the Falco mixes himself up and you don't react very well.

Don't be desperate? That's the first problem. Be confident in understanding that Falco's pressure has holes and that Marth has loads of tools to deal with them.

And lol like Marth can't destroy Falco off of a grab. XD

 

[JPOBS]

i agree with m2k tho that many many marths will sheild grab on reaction to a dash attack instea dof doing better things.

PP vs m2k convo was tight

FoD is usually falco's palace, but i see where m2k is coming from its harder vs marth because of its small size, platforms that interfere with lasers and platform heights don't really hinder marths's movement or combos since he's always grounded anyway.

also, i feel like upthrow->dair NEVER works for me vs marth. they always jump or fair out for free. hat trick about waiting a second so they are DI'ing sounds baller tho imma cop that.

 

[TheGoat]

Armada also says that he thinks falco is overrated...

It is confirmed, falco sucks.

marth's shield suuuuuuuuuuucks vs falco. if you get caught in your shield as marth vs falco, if you don't roll you'll get shieldpoked eventually if the falco shield pressures. this causes marths to do stuff outta shield in desperation, but then they just get shined and like OMG WTF combo'd every time

Nah, marth powershielding up close ****s up falco. And if the falco decides not to laser in close range because of that, then marths superior sword wins.

I can't wait until we get to the stage where falco mains will be powershielding powershielded lasers, awesome.

 

[Dr Peepee]

It is confirmed, falco sucks.




Nah, marth powershielding up close ****s up falco. And if the falco decides not to laser in close range because of that, then marths superior sword wins.

I can't wait until we get to the stage where falco mains will be powershielding powershielded lasers, awesome.

Nah, Europe just knows the matchup and USA needs to learn more about it. Falco is mad good, but overrated.


Once Marth counters Falco's approaches well(and makes use of powershielding, sure), then Falco will be afraid to laser or take a long time setting up his approaches, which allows Marth more breathing room and more time to take advantage of stage control with his big sword. Same type of concept applies to Sheik, Fox kinda, and Ganon(as far as I know right now anyway, could be more that are capable of doing this).

 

[unknown522]

What I meant was because it's extremely hard to tech chase falco on reaction with sheik that it isn't something that you can rely on. I'm using reliability as a synonym to consistently.

I gotta show you how easy it is.

Now, if only I had KK's ability to hit spacies well. It'd be game over.

 

[TheGoat]

Nah, Europe just knows the matchup and USA needs to learn more about it. Falco is mad good, but overrated.


Once Marth counters Falco's approaches well(and makes use of powershielding, sure), then Falco will be afraid to laser or take a long time setting up his approaches, which allows Marth more breathing room and more time to take advantage of stage control with his big sword. Same type of concept applies to Sheik, Fox kinda, and Ganon(as far as I know right now anyway, could be more that are capable of doing this).

Yeah I'm just joking I know falco *****
I do agree he is kinda overrated. To me he just seems to be ever so slightly subpar to fox and marth and perhaps shiek, that's just the vibe I get. I think lasers just piss everybody off. And also the top falco mains are just that good.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Falco just has more talented people pushing him than any other character in my opinion.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I gotta show you how easy it is.

Now, if only I had KK's ability to hit spacies well. It'd be game over.

lol

It's just Sheik

So you can do it

Scrub

LOL

ur sheik is better than mine

pie

teach me how to love

every lasting love

every lasting yay

yay

micahel

pie

dots

i'm tired

wkooagirgiwrwtry2oy4o2


PP let's talk about the Sheik matchup

 

[Dr Peepee]

I feel like Sheik wins the Falco Sheik matchup, but probably not by much.

Let's talk about that though. What do you think it is?

note: my opinion on this will probably change in some way once I've hardcore examined me vs you and m2k's sheik. =p

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

Falco just has more talented people pushing him than any other character in my opinion.

Meh, really? I just think he's so versatile, that there's just so many options to explore with, but that's just my opinion. You should go deeper into that, what gives you that impression on falco?

 

[KirbyKaze]

I think Falco players think that every character beats Falco

So I don't take matchup ratios very seriously from them

Sheik can beat every character so that's good enough for me

<3

I dunno how do you feel about attacking her and stuff, you know. The matchup. Like:

1) Approaching - scrub tactic or useful mixup?

2) Lasers - pew pew you?

3) Combo - baker, not breaker

4) Edgeguarding - a do it yourself guide

Stuff like that

6-4 or 55-45 or 7-3 or >>> doesn't convey anything useful LOL

 

[choknater]

he's popular because of the way he's played so offensively. people like playing this way and like innovating in offense. the way to defeating the powerhouse of falco is finding holes in his offense because defensively he's really not that great of a character.

i like ic's because they are able to be aggressive vs falco and POKE holes in his offense rather than finding them. sh blizzard and dash attack both defeat SHL. also ice block spamming. the biggest hindrance is that sopo cannot really deal with falco >_< good thing we punish really hard lol. i can get death off a random punish, at times better than marth or fox can.

 

[JPOBS]

i think falco wins vs sheik

mostly cuz she cant touch him with any move except grab below 40% or she takes a ton of damage. unless she spaces well, but people should be spacing well all the time so moot point.

edgeguaridng is lols

uptilt is broken

buttt...sheik can get off. If she can successfully techchase consistently when she gets the chance, then falco shouldn't live very often past 50% cuz he should be consistently getting easily death combo'd off of any launcher at that percent (and sheik has a ton of these). or he CC's the launcher moves, gets grounded, techchase, then launched (dash attack most likely) and dies.

but the day falco's learn to constantly ground tech -> punish, sheik is doomed

but im bad so KK and PP should just have a faceoff argument gogogogo

 

[KirbyKaze]

modern falco style is hella gay

so

i don't buy aggro LOL

maybe if you're mango or dashizwiz

the rest of you are either bad or are prepared to go heavy gay with lasers and plats LOL

<3

but that's not why i'm here

i'm here 'cuz i'm bored

let's talk about

FALCO LOMBARDI vs. PRINCESS ZELD--SHEIK

 

[Wenbobular]

ICE BLOCKS ARE SO CHEAP aaaaaaaaugh

 

[Druggedfox]

I think Falco players think that every character beats Falco

Thank you.

No offense PP, but I believe I've heard you express the following at some point:

Falco loses to jigglypuff.
Falco loses to sheik.
Falco loses to marth.

Then I can't remember what you've said about falco vs fox and peach... however, considering armada's opinion, I wouldn't be surprised if you also said falco loses to peach >_> Idk what you've said about fox.

But I mean, come on. Falco's not THAT bad. He's kind of a good character.

 

[JPOBS]

every character main thinks they lose every matchup.

except the foxes, fox boards are mad cocky lol

 

[Druggedfox]

Fox is like, the best... he wins everything ^_^

Why do people play characters they think are bad? Makes no sense.

 

[choknater]

i disagree with KK

talk about falco vs ic's

 

[KirbyKaze]

chok i no longer love you

i'm in love with the following:

niko, kevinm, kevin, mogwai, dippndots, hazz, darkrain, unknown522, sleepyk, trahhh, nite, and luigilover62

uhhh probably some others






I find it hard to attack Falco when he shoots lasers under Pokemon's platforms

It feels significantly harder than on other levels

I attribute this mainly to the platforms absorbing Sheik's short hop (unless you do early aerial or hold down) and being smaller, which makes it harder to play on them, or effectively be above + in front of him; usually the size makes it easy for him to just be below you and that's a terrible position

The fact that there's somewhat closer to the center is also problematic I find because it lets him move back without pinning himself so terribly; you can't really move back further if you're shooting under a Yoshi's Story platform or whatever

I definitely think lasers are a good way to go on stages that facilitate that sort of strategy

It's why I ban FD before banning Rainbow Cruise (cruise isn't that bad for Sheik in the MU)

But how do you feel about something like Yoshi or Battlefield where that sort of strat is weaker?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Meh, really? I just think he's so versatile, that there's just so many options to explore with, but that's just my opinion. You should go deeper into that, what gives you that impression on falco?

There are so many notable Falcos, and each has contributed to the metagame in a major way(matchups or innovative pressure or laser usage or combos or whatever). Like, Shiz showed us what it was like to make the most of Falco's Fsmash and aggro pressure, AND he took top spots at tournaments. Chops showed us amazing laser usage and a lot of psychological prowess Falco was capable of, which earned him great notoriety despite his iffy tournament results. Mango did loads for Falco's shield pressure and creative approach'ing/edgeguarding/combo game, and of course gave us the autocancel Bair. Zhu showed us what a very solid Falco that made good use of all of his aspects, offensive and defensive, could do. Zhu also takes top spots in tourneys and has been pretty consistent. I don't really know what I do but I keep placing well so I'm probably doing things without knowing it lol.

Marth has M2K that's getting recorded and playing a lot. Diakonos a little(would be **** if he got recorded more so people could be better vs Falco but that doesn't happen) and Strawhat Dahean before he quit. Falcomist too but he barely plays. Arc in the midwest needs more experience and he could be good.....OH pewpewyou deserves mentioning once he gets over his nerves....

Fox has Jman, Lucky, Colbol, Zgetto, Remen, Eggm, etc but these guys haven't pushed fox far enough yet. How do I know? Because barely any of these Foxes take top spots when you put all of the toughest competition together. They all **** their regions, but putting them in with everyone else they always seem to fall just short of the big spots. Why? Well, I think none of them have pushed Fox far enough yet. Especially with Jman quitting, we don't see much of Foxes in high spots in tourneys like Pound(lucky made it up there, but even then it was just top 8, which is very far from proving Fox can compete when compared to the likes of PC winning OC3 and KDJ's Fox taking top spots, etc back in the day). A lot of people doing well is not the same as pushing the character far and proving he is caught up with today's metagame. Maybe Fox is though and we just need a better player to step up or something, I dunno.

Sheik has KK, Amsah, and M2K as the frontrunners(yes I know there are more good Sheiks don't kill me) and they're all very successful, but there aren't as many successful Sheiks as Falcos. To me, Sheik is the only character that could arguably be on-par with Falco's metagame today because of the way those Sheiks are performing. The lack of Sheiks overall kinda hurts that theory though since we just hear of them and no intermediate Sheiks typically.

Puff has Hbox and Darc(and Raistlin? kinda...I guess, haven't heard of him since I played him second round pools at pound 4), and they're doing a good job of keeping Puff relevant, so maybe puff is like Sheik in that the good players take top/high spots, but there just aren't many of them. Puff is probably advanced too because of the work Hbox and friends have done, but whether it's been more than what Falcos have done is debateable.



Take this for what you will, but that's just how I feel about things. I mean, I also feel like pretty much everyone sucks vs Puff(Mango has said this before too) and that's part of why some puffs are successful/as successful as they are, but people are like that to an extent about Falco too, so lol I guess.

 

[Niko45]

Dude...M2K plays Marth vs spacies and pretty much nothing else...maybe like Samus or something. sorry but, he's not a marth main or pushing marth to new overall heights.

 

[leffen]

Dudes, falco vs peach is ****ING HORRIBLE ( to play, the matchup is prob 60 in peach favor ).
Powershield Dsmash, powershielding spaced bairs to dash attack, powershielding lasors and 0 to death with 1 or 2 tech reads...

Dont even get me started on peach vs falco on fd or brinstar etc... D:

Falco does go even or loses against : marth, puff and sheik.
The fox matchup is imho 55-45 in ntsc, even in pal ( for fox ), if the fox plays aggressive its really tough for falco to get any kind of space.

Falco will though, imo never lose by more than 60 in any matchup evar. He simply has so many options and people have pushed him so incredibly far compared to fox / marth / sheik.

step it up ppl and start ***in falco up.

 

[KirbyKaze]

bleh

**** it

pp we'll talk on aim or something LOL

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

Dude...M2K plays Marth vs spacies and pretty much nothing else...maybe like Samus or something. sorry but, he's not a marth main or pushing marth to new overall heights.

you're crazy. M2k has taught the world the marth vs spacie matchup better than anyone else. Just because he plays multiple characters doesn't mean he hasn't taught the world a **** ton with marth, or that he isn't a marth main. If Player A ***** with marth but plays 5 characters does that make him any less of a main if he's better than player B with marth? Never got that idea.

 

[Niko45]

I am very much not crazy. No argument that he pushed marth vs spacies way way ahead of its time (which has now been caught up to, clearly, see ROM3). He also basically gave up on Marth vs CF in like 07 as far as I'm concerned. In general, he plays Marth when its convenient, and that's totally fine for him, but he really can't be considered a complete Marth player at this point imo. Seems pretty clear that sheik is his anchor, and marth/fox step in when it's more convenient.

 

[Dr Peepee]

I think Falco players think that every character beats Falco

So I don't take matchup ratios very seriously from them

Sheik can beat every character so that's good enough for me

<3

I dunno how do you feel about attacking her and stuff, you know. The matchup. Like:

1) Approaching - scrub tactic or useful mixup?

2) Lasers - pew pew you?

3) Combo - baker, not breaker

4) Edgeguarding - a do it yourself guide

Stuff like that

6-4 or 55-45 or 7-3 or >>> doesn't convey anything useful LOL

I was just trying to start with something lol my bad.

Approaching....hmmm I guess on paper Falco and Sheik control different things. Falco can kinda control the bottom with lasers while Sheik gets diagonals with needles on platforms(they all ban FD so yeah, platforms lol), so it's not easy for Falco to attack Sheik on a platform with the worry of her coming down and needling/Fair'ing/Bair'ing a lot. I think that makes Falco's life very hard/losing, but that's me.
On the ground, Sheik has strong laser counters too(which I'm painfully aware that you know lmao) which cause Falco to question his attacks, if only for a moment. Sheik gets the dash attack/powershield approach and then fun times come.

Combo-wise....uhhh I dunno who does better honestly. I really wanna say Sheik but it's harder for her to stay consistent with her punishes I think. Falco has pretty long combos that are less energy-intensive though so maybe it evens out. Sheik DOES get gimps though, which Falco doesn't, so off of straight punishment vs punishment scenarios, then Sheik doles out harder punishment I bet.

I don't really know a lot about edgeguarding Sheik I think. I know you grab the edge, but sometimes Sheiks with the double jump/airdodge make it extremely difficult to handle. I don't know how to handle some of that stuff, so I wanna say Sheik is harder to edgeguard, but I also know Falco has more recovery potential than he's typically given, though that's not saying a ton vs a competent Sheik. Hope for side B clanks and tricky firebird recoveries that are out of Bair range. Guess I'm interested in what you think about this part.

I'll get more into these as I catch up with the rest of the discussion LOL. =p

he's popular because of the way he's played so offensively. people like playing this way and like innovating in offense. the way to defeating the powerhouse of falco is finding holes in his offense because defensively he's really not that great of a character.

i like ic's because they are able to be aggressive vs falco and POKE holes in his offense rather than finding them. sh blizzard and dash attack both defeat SHL. also ice block spamming. the biggest hindrance is that sopo cannot really deal with falco >_< good thing we punish really hard lol. i can get death off a random punish, at times better than marth or fox can.

Agreed.

modern falco style is hella gay

so

i don't buy aggro LOL

maybe if you're mango or dashizwiz

the rest of you are either bad or are prepared to go heavy gay with lasers and plats LOL

<3

but that's not why i'm here

i'm here 'cuz i'm bored

let's talk about

FALCO LOMBARDI vs. PRINCESS ZELD--SHEIK

I don't play that gay, do I? Lol maybe I do.

Thank you.

No offense PP, but I believe I've heard you express the following at some point:

Falco loses to jigglypuff.
Falco loses to sheik.
Falco loses to marth.

Then I can't remember what you've said about falco vs fox and peach... however, considering armada's opinion, I wouldn't be surprised if you also said falco loses to peach >_> Idk what you've said about fox.

But I mean, come on. Falco's not THAT bad. He's kind of a good character.

Yup.
Probly.
Probly.

I think he probly loses to Fox too, but LOOOOL I know better than to discuss that one. I'll just say even.

I think he loses to Peach too. =)

And Falco's overrated. It's hard to believe he loses what is traditionally won because you see EVERYONE winning with Falco and just assume he's that good because LOL COMBOS AND PRESSURE. Never mind how he's getting those hits or how people aren't learning from it or the Falcos are taking initiative and being a step ahead, it's definitely the character.

Fox is like, the best... he wins everything ^_^

Why do people play characters they think are bad? Makes no sense.

I play Falco because Marth/Sheik pissed me off at low level. Also, Shiz. =p

chok i no longer love you

i'm in love with the following:

niko, kevinm, kevin, mogwai, dippndots, hazz, darkrain, and luigilover62

wooooo I made the list!

 

[Druggedfox]

Powershielding is a joke as far as changing matchups. It's not that big a deal; I've fought peaches who powershielded ---> downsmash plenty, its not that big a deal. Falco has so many mixups that can trick peach into shielding for nothing that its just back and forth. The higher level tactics you abuse, the more stuff works against you; sure you start powershielding, but then what? They catch on and start baiting it? Suddenly your awesome tactic is now one more dimension you have to think about that could screw you over.

Powershielding is so good NOW because no one knows how to fight it. So I'm sure people who can powershield a lot **** most of their opponents and make matchups seem back for falco, but people who powershield have way more experience at using it than their opponents do fighting it. Powershielding to me is no different than how no one knows how to fight jiggs, to be honest >_>

Also, I think Dr PPs performance against armada says a lot to the contrary of the matchup bein that bad.

Dr. PP has, from what I can tell, very little to no peach matchup experience, much less a peach on armada's level. Armada, on the other hand, is the best peach at the matchup, and it seems to be one of his favorite matchups. On top of that, when they played, armada was a better player. A better player who knows the matchup significantly better than the other player going more or less even? Eh, all armada proved to me is that he knows it better than other people.

 

[JPOBS]

Falco peach is definitely not Peaches favor. its a hard matchup, but its not her favor.

and she doesnt even come CLOSE to 0-deathing falco wtf are you talking about leffen? even with a 70% downsmash, i've never once been 0-death'd by a peach or even seen one do it consistently.

I dont know what kind of ish the peaches you're playing are smoking if they consistently "powershield bairs to dash attack", thats like 2015 metagame.
Peach powershielding lasers isnt even a threat because unlike marth/fox/sheik she doent have the speed to capitilize.

idk, peach sucks. the only reaosn its hard is because her edgeguarding it great and her downsmash can quickly turn the tides. as long as you arent being edgeguarded or downsmash, peach isnt close to horrible.

edit: holy smokes this thread is beasting today.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Dude...M2K plays Marth vs spacies and pretty much nothing else...maybe like Samus or something. sorry but, he's not a marth main or pushing marth to new overall heights.

Ah, okay, well he's not a Marth MAIN but he's still innovating some with some matchups. He even held his own vs Amsah's Sheik in friendlies and vs armada's Peach in tourney. I'd say he just doesn't do the Marth thing in tournament as much anymore, which certainly does weaken Marth's rep.

Marth needs rep! <3 Marth

bleh

**** it

pp we'll talk on aim or something LOL

Haha alright. =p I'm eager to do that either way.

I am very much not crazy. No argument that he pushed marth vs spacies way way ahead of its time (which has now been caught up to, clearly, see ROM3). He also basically gave up on Marth vs CF in like 07 as far as I'm concerned. In general, he plays Marth when its convenient, and that's totally fine for him, but he really can't be considered a complete Marth player at this point imo. Seems pretty clear that sheik is his anchor, and marth/fox step in when it's more convenient.

Hmm, yeah I'd be fine with agreeing with that.

 

[TheGoat]

So has anyone found it possible to movement camp with falco? Basically laser and avoid getting hit, run away, and laser? I know fox can do it against a lot of characters.

 

[Druggedfox]

Falco peach is definitely not Peaches favor. its a hard matchup, but its not her favor.

and she doesnt even come CLOSE to 0-deathing falco wtf are you talking about leffen? even with a 70% downsmash, i've never once been 0-death'd by a peach or even seen one do it consistently.

I dont know what kind of ish the peaches you're playing are smoking if they consistently "powershield bairs to dash attack", thats like 2015 metagame.
Peach powershielding lasers isnt even a threat because unlike marth/fox/sheik she doent have the speed to capitilize.

idk, peach sucks. the only reaosn its hard is because her edgeguarding it great and her downsmash can quickly turn the tides. as long as you arent being edgeguarded or downsmash, peach isnt close to horrible.

edit: holy smokes this thread is beasting today.

It's armadas new tactic, fyi. I've seen several europeans everywhere post about it. Apparently its game changing (I've been seeing it for years...) and will make the matchup hopeless.

@PP

I understand where you're coming from, but not everyone who says falco is good is just like "OH HES WINNING IT MUST BE THE CHARACTER" as you enjoy characterizing people of that opinion. Some people who express that opinion actually believe he has advantages in particular matchups, and after much exploration have come to the conclusion.

I'm not sure my opinion of falco boils down to LOL COMBOS AND PRESSURE. It has a lot more to do with his consistent punishment game on every character in the cast, solid edgeguarding, solid control of pace, and several other things. But sure, combos and pressure, thats obviously why I and others think falco's good.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Powershielding is a joke as far as changing matchups. It's not that big a deal; I've fought peaches who powershielded ---> downsmash plenty, its not that big a deal. Falco has so many mixups that can trick peach into shielding for nothing that its just back and forth. The higher level tactics you abuse, the more stuff works against you; sure you start powershielding, but then what? They catch on and start baiting it? Suddenly your awesome tactic is now one more dimension you have to think about that could screw you over.

Powershielding is so good NOW because no one knows how to fight it. So I'm sure people who can powershield a lot **** most of their opponents and make matchups seem back for falco, but people who powershield have way more experience at using it than their opponents do fighting it. Powershielding to me is no different than how no one knows how to fight jiggs, to be honest >_>

Also, I think Dr PPs performance against armada says a lot to the contrary of the matchup bein that bad.

Dr. PP has, from what I can tell, very little to no peach matchup experience, much less a peach on armada's level. Armada, on the other hand, is the best peach at the matchup, and it seems to be one of his favorite matchups. On top of that, when they played, armada was a better player. A better player who knows the matchup significantly better than the other player going more or less even? Eh, all armada proved to me is that he knows it better than other people.

You take away too much from what powershielding does when it's successful, and also ignore what it forces Falco to do in order for it to lose some of its effectiveness.

Powershielding gives the user the ability to stun Falco while you're free to move, and usually it surprises the Falco(because he either didn't expect it to work initially or when he was trying to force you to miss the powershield and you got it anyway) so you get plenty of time to hit/grab Falco, which obviously can mess him up, you guys already know. The ability to negate Falco's main tool used in pressure and aggression is an amazing one, and if done somewhat consistently,(which it can be since FALCO HAS TO SHORT HOP TO LASER, mad slow) it forces Falco to use those "mixups" you're referring to in order to keep his pressure somewhat consistent.

But consider this: you're now somewhat keeping Falco from applying his main tool used to pressure and approach/defend vs people, how is that not amazing? Yes, Falco can shoot blanks or vary his timing or empty hop or all that kind of BS to make powershielding harder to do/get rewarded for, but at its core powershielding takes a chunk out of Falco's game and demands more of Falco's speed to compensate since he cannot shoot so much, which is even worse to try to abuse at times.

I knew that if I played gay I could have avoided a lot of problems associated with my inexperience, and I was right. Armada wasn't like amazingly better than me at the time, and I'd wager that he's learned more about me and Falco since out encounter, whereas I already had plenty of data on him watching the likes of him vs Zhu/Shiz/Mango's Falco. There's a lot more that influences tournament matches than just experience, and that's been how I've beaten people when I barely knew/know how to fight some matchups since forever lol.

Falco peach is definitely not Peaches favor. its a hard matchup, but its not her favor.

and she doesnt even come CLOSE to 0-deathing falco wtf are you talking about leffen? even with a 70% downsmash, i've never once been 0-death'd by a peach or even seen one do it consistently.

I dont know what kind of ish the peaches you're playing are smoking if they consistently "powershield bairs to dash attack", thats like 2015 metagame.
Peach powershielding lasers isnt even a threat because unlike marth/fox/sheik she doent have the speed to capitilize.

idk, peach sucks. the only reaosn its hard is because her edgeguarding it great and her downsmash can quickly turn the tides. as long as you arent being edgeguarded or downsmash, peach isnt close to horrible.

edit: holy smokes this thread is beasting today.

Peach has the tools to control Falco after she powershields though(floating, run up grab/dast attack shenanigans).

I don't play this matchup enough at all so I'll leave it alone though.

 

[Mogwai]

*****s are crazy, Falco doesn't lose a single matchup and it has nothing to do with meta-gaming or w/e, he's just beast as ****.

 

[Dr Peepee]

@PP

I understand where you're coming from, but not everyone who says falco is good is just like "OH HES WINNING IT MUST BE THE CHARACTER" as you enjoy characterizing people of that opinion. Some people who express that opinion actually believe he has advantages in particular matchups, and after much exploration have come to the conclusion.

I'm not sure my opinion of falco boils down to LOL COMBOS AND PRESSURE. It has a lot more to do with his consistent punishment game on every character in the cast, solid edgeguarding, solid control of pace, and several other things. But sure, combos and pressure, thats obviously why I and others think falco's good.

No one consciously thinks about it, but everyone justifies it to themselves that way typically. You could be an exception as you've had that opinion for years I think, but there aren't many like that I'm afraid. It's just that it's so much easier to back up now than it was then, and I think it has more to do with the people than the characters themselves.

Haha I'm not trying to belittle your opinion(because I understand why you're saying what you do and respect it), but I just have a lot of faith in other characters based on things I've either found out, seen in the old days when certain characters were pushed differently, or have heard about. That's all. =)



Edit: <3 Mogwai