PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[Kanelol]

laser OoS > retreating fair

 

[FoxLisk]

nothing BEATS retreating air oos. lasering intelligently can convince marth not to overuse it, but it doesn't beat it out right in any useful way.


Also, I gotta say, my favourite final set might still be PC vs KDJ from MLG las vegas. ooooh my god.

but genesis 1 GF 1 is a great set, as is P3. rom3 was a cool set to watch, partly because it's nice to see falco/marth in GFs again, but honestly, I can't call it the greatest GFs. It's hard to give that honor to a set that doesn't involve Mango right now, just because if Mango had wanted to, I'm sure he could have beaten either of those players. that just kinda takes away from the greatness, at least for me.

edit: trahh, i wrote you like a million words of advice the other day. did you read that? did it help at all?

i only ask cause i like giving advice, but i dont wanna bother if people won't read it.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

Wow, I thought I had responded to youre critique awhile back..I read it like the minute you posted it.

Well, MEANT to say thanks a **** ton. any critique that long with that specific of detail helps me greatly <3<3

. I feel like as i read the things i'm told to be doing wrong, theyre being stored for when i play, to apply. Like the never having laser control thing is already getting alot better. I noticed before, i'd have laser control and give it up real quickly by going on platforms, basically resetting the laser fight. then of course you reminding me the points where my spacing is pretty bad helps to remind myself to work on that alot too.


didn't see the pokemon stadium thing before though. That sounds about right, i'm known for my platform combos in vegas. I never thought about the PS not being good combo platforms but obviously now i can see it. when i played sk92 i banned FD. i can jsut tell it's his old-school falco combo stage, and i know i work better off plats so yeah, i took PS over FD[at the time i figured PS was just as good for platform combos as the others]

Not sure what i'd prefer more though.

Lol sorry it came off like i just skipped by your post. youre critique was one of the major 'apply this advice into play' critiques.

 

[FoxLisk]

oh good, i'm glad it was helpful. And yeah, it's possible you responded and I missed it; if so, sorry!

and yeah, i personally would always pick ps over fd, but i just hate fd. ive hated fd for a long time. the platforms on PS don't help with combos much, but some of the transformations are good. the one with two wooden platform and the bush is good for platform combos.

if your opponent has better laser control than you PS might be good, though. you can use platforms to reset laser control when you don't have it, too.

I would say, though, it's very easy to just learn the FD combos, which makes that stage more comfortable. against fox/falco/cf they're very straightforward and easy to memorize and implement. so if you dislike flat stages, that might be the lesser of two evils after some rote practice.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

Yeah i'm completely comfortable with FD combos against the heavies, but how i saw it was that older-school falcos work more off the basic FD combos rather than comboing off platforms. and i think i was right cause i noticed he didn't have that great of followups whenever i was shined/hit up onto a platform.

That and when i asked to play him in falco dittos that day before tournament, he asked "can we jsut play FD?"

maybe that was mean of me.

I guess the platforms still do contribute to combos, just not nearly as hard as a 3 platform stage. Cause i know i've done work on those platforms now and then.

Thanks again mang.

 

[JPOBS]

what do you guys do to follow up when you're comboing spacies on 3 platform stages and the combo goes like this:

-dair->shine (x2 depending on where it started)
-they DI towards one of the low platforms
-you jump shine waveland if they havent hit the platform (so wont get the gay neutral reset float thing) or just chase their tech with jumpshine waveland
- they DI towards the top platform
- X

What do you do at X? i always try to run off the near edge to DJ dair spike them into the top platform, or just full jump dair, but this almost always end my combo, cuz in the time it takes for me to continue rising and then FF to the platform, they have already tech'd/roll'd and got away.

and it annoys the hell out of me cuz i dont know what i should b doing to keep my combo going.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

maybe since the shine has so much hit-sun, try and delay that dair to the point where you're coming down with them[or close]? I feel like i can always followup after a dair making them hit top platform. thinking about it i don't see what other single move could continue that followup besides dair.

if i could picture this id be able to visualize more options @__@

also the stage can be a big role in the leadup, especially yoshis vs dl.


edit-just pictured replacing that dair with a light-hit bair that knocks them forward into a dair. that ****'ll get you laid

 

[Druggedfox]

@JPobs

Instead of shine wavelanding, a lot of the time you can DJ above the platform and come down with a dair.

It's not as guaranteed, but I know mango does it all the time (and I've been doing it for a while).

 

[#HBC | Mac]

If i cant combo but i know theyll land on the top i,
just waveland to the opposite side of the top platform. Since theyll usually tech away on that platform. If they don't tech away, i still waveland but shield so that i can shield theyre get up attack and dair oos. Or sometimes i just waveland and react to the tech with a dsmash.

 

[Melomaniacal]

Can anyone shed some light on the Yoshi match up? For the first time, I've come across a Yoshi player that I'll be playing weekly here at Kutztown.

We played a few times today. I didn't ever lose really, but I feel like I was having more trouble than I should have. A few matches in, I basically gave up on edge guarding him, because he kept shutting down my attempts and sometimes even egging me off stage to my death. I find his weight really awkward to shine combo. Should I just... nair combo?

Any advice is cool.

 

[Diakonos]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvaKe9Wna6o&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

 

[Melomaniacal]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvaKe9Wna6o&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

...holy ****.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

Sexy sion! <3<3 my favorite was first stock, and then the last stock with the turn around dair grab kill, i learned something =3

 

[Rubyiris]

Rubyiris Flaco vs Silly Kyle peach

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOVE_ppWWd8

Critique would be appreciated.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

why'd you quit out on that backthrow...

 

[Rubyiris]

No confidence after losing g1. I didn't feel like getting edge guarded.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

awful idea bro

mentality killer + gaining nothing out of educating yourself on recovering.

 

[Sion]

good stuff, trahh

 

[Rubyiris]

Yeah I know, but I didn't care. I just didn't want to play anymore after I lost g1 tbh.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Rubyiris Flaco vs Silly Kyle peach

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOVE_ppWWd8

Critique would be appreciated.

Game 1:

0:43- DJ'ing away there is an overly defensive tactic that will get you ***** vs better players. Even FH'ing away is kinda silly but better. If you're worried about an approach after being hit by a turnip, then you could always just WD back/reverse SHL and see what happened next....or shield lol, but that sucks vs Peach.

0:47- Did the Dair too early, and you should have moved or kept hitting Peach(not with uptilt! they bait that) instead of shielding.

0:57- Strange Fsmash. Try not to use that move too much unless you're more certain it will connect because if you whiff you can be punished somewhat easily. Maybe grab or shield pressure instead? Oh, looking again you probably could have been okay if you didn't charge the Fsmash either.

then you get kinda stuck in one spot afterward- just keep moving around. You don't HAVE to be lasering, but that helps sometimes. Just helps you get a flow going too.

1:24- Shine wasn't close enough to connect. Sometimes you just gotta know your spacing and shield or maybe WD back and then punish with something before the move ends if you recognize the opening quickly enough.

2:01- Missed tech skill? Can't connect Dtilt at that percent if that's what you were going for anyway.

2:19- Utilt/Bair are typically better at beating out Peach's Nair than Falco's Nair is(despite the combo/stage control appeal), so I'd say work those in some when you see Peach coming down.

2:46- You looked kinda wary to keep pressure on, but you really should have because you had momentum a few times. I'd also advise moving around with your lasering(forward/back/changing lengths/etc) so you can use that momentum to your advantage better. Also you need to laser grab lol, you could have had a lot of those I bet. ANYWAY, the main issue here was you did your own thing up to this point but Fsmash'd blindly again. If anything, I'd say you shild go for shield pokes with Dtilt before just Fsmash'ing a shield. Wait, you charged it again, so maybe you'd have been okay otherwise. LOL let's just go with stop charging Fsmash for now....

2:50- Kinda froze there. Shine/Bair/Dair?/Utilt? would have been good.

3:02- Getup attack isn't gonna do any good if Peach is floating above you. Either wait for her float to end or do a different getup.

Then after that, I kinda get the feeling that you need to do more with your shield pressure. Add in some more moves or shine grabs or waveshines or something lol because he isn't trying to break your pressure at all. Mix it up, basically.

Then you suddenly start going for strange grabs. Whatever the reason, make sure you know Peach is going to be scared enough to stay in her shield when you attempt such a grab, or if she's on the ground when you attempt it anyway.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

pp,

did you forget again? XD

 

[Dr Peepee]

No, but every time I feel like doing a critique there's one in the thread.

Also, I'm very.....we'll say not-motivated today.

I'll try to do it soon....right after this aim chat stops being fun. =p

 

[TheGoat]

My opinion before rom, and after rom hasn't changed. It is as follows:

Marth goes even with fox and falco (and any tiny advantages to make it 51-49 or something, I'm treating as unimportant for the most run).

Marth loses to sheik, but not by a significant margin; it is as playable as any other high tier disadvantaged matchup and there's no reason to act otherwise (marth players tend to ***** about it).

Marth is either the third or fourth best in the game, I'm not sure if I think sheik is better or not.

Marth beats everyone else: jiggs, peach, falcon, ganon, ICs, doc, samus.

That said... he's not as good a character as falco, who I don't think loses to anyone (except maybe fox, I'm not sure yet).

So... "Poor marth, not being as good a character as falco =/"

Perhaps I am wrong because I am indeed very inexperienced, but I think marth is gay as **** and definetly 1st or second. lol.

I really don't think he has it hard against spacies at all, he has the potential to kill them so easily. In my limited experience falco has a heck of a time dealing with marth. Marth just has such good range, is not easy to combo, and he has pretty good recovery. Maybe I'm wrong, just my 2 cents

And falco certainly has a hard time against peach and puff and generally against other floaties. Fox or marth don't have this problem I think.

 

[Druggedfox]

I feel that the higher level of play you get to as far as understanding the matchup, the less bad it seems for falco.

Falco also does perfectly fine vs peach and puff, I would have to say; the matchup hasn't proven ridiculous by any means: PP has shown he can beat hbox, and as far as peach... armada's simply a better player than his opponents.

Overall, I placed marth third in the game... perhaps sheik is better, idk. Regardless, there is no character that can match fox/falco's matchups I'd have to say.

No offense at all, but when you first start out, marth does seem pretty ridiculous. Honestly, I think marth has a rather subpar recovery (fox and sheik absolutely **** it). He's also pretty easy to combo overall... I don't think falco, fox, or sheik really have trouble combo'ing marth...

 

[TheGoat]

yea you are right on all that stuff probably, no offense taken. marth DOES seem ridiculous to me at this point! I am ashamed to say that I still struggle against marths that spam fsmash, but I am working on it. It's just very difficult to get past that sword, even with the help of lasers. But I will persist and continue to improve on the matchup.
And I guess I just don't know how to edgeguard marth; I can't ledgehog because his upb will knock me down and he will proceed to gimp me, I just have to work on that.

 

[JPOBS]

marth is tough at lower levels of play.

edgeguarding can be hard when you don't understand how to abuse invincibility frames, or the lightshield hog.

I think marth vs spacies at top level is even.

 

[Mew2King]

explain how marth falco is even

i think marth fox is but stunning lasers really change everything. Gets rid of the brokenness of dash dance which leads to deathly grabs. Is powershield the only reason it could be even?

I still struggle against marths that spam fsmash

unless tippered, f smash is easily blocked and wavedash out of shield to punish



you may not believe me on this but I am being serious: I know how to do falco vs peach you just run away a lot on platforms and abuse your Dair intelligently. Approach the matchup like a ***** instead of trying to fight. Peach excels at counterattacking offense. Her weakness is being camped. Concentrate on platform camping and intelligent tricky use of Dair/Bair and avoiding down smash at low %. Battlefield and Dreamland (2 peach counterpicks) are great for this, while Poke Stad is simply in your favor. FoD and YS and FD I have no opinion, but maybe it could also work except for FD where if you don't get chain grabbed you have advantage.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Falco's also a loooot slower and doesn't get as much off of grabs.

He also edgeguards Marth much worse.

And Marth can do lots of stuff about Falco's approaches and pressure but no one exploits that as well as vs Fox so that's why I bring it up.

 

[Mew2King]

please be more specific. Mango's falco combos me to 50-60 every time he hits me. This means a perfect falco will do that every time and the only option for the person being hit is to DI (and I DI away from the first shine. He still finds a way to get a minimum 40+ from 0 each time. Falco is capable of guaranteeing that I have learned). At highest level play there is no way it is in Marth's favor side FD FoD. Please explain how marth has the advantage at high level play. Being slow doesn't matter if you force your opponent to be slow and combo much harder than they do (putting them offstage in a bad spot to finish with. That's what mango does to me every time anyway).

also falco's up throw nearly guarantees an aerial. A quick up throw to full jump dair is what PC used to do to me it is very effective. You can also hold them, wait a second, then after you are sure they are DIing, you can up throw and combo them with an aerial since their lasers will miss the DIing marth. Try that.

 

[Dr Peepee]

please be more specific. Mango's falco combos me to 50-60 every time he hits me. This means a perfect falco will do that every time and the only option for the person being hit is to DI. At highest level play there is no way it is in Marth's favor side FD FoD. Please explain how marth has the advantage at high level play. Being slow doesn't matter if you force your opponent to be slow and combo much harder than they do (putting them offstage in a bad spot to finish with. That's what mango does to me every time anyway).

Nah I don't mean when you're hit, I'm talking about preventing being hit. You know, SH Fair OOS when Falco laser approaches, or taking the laser and then Utilt/Fsmash'ing/grabbing. That kinda stuff.

Being slow does matter because it makes Falco soooo much easier to react to with things like ^ that. You just gotta know what to look for.

And Falco can only limit someone so much so if you're feeling locked down then chances are you need to step up your reads so you can move(jumps/counters/whatever) in between lasers(which will have patterns of usage and just generally are slow enough to be maneuvered around).

Also Marth hits Falco harder off of an opening than vice versa, which should also happen vs Mango I'd hope.



Edit: Can't Marth just reactionary DI the lasers up so it doesn't matter what Falco does???

 

[Mew2King]

Nah I don't mean when you're hit, I'm talking about preventing being hit. You know, SH Fair OOS when Falco laser approaches, or taking the laser and then Utilt/Fsmash'ing/grabbing. That kinda stuff.

I know about these, but if falco is close enough he can do 1 of 2 main options.
1) a quick Dair usually trades or beats most situations. Sometimes it won't where in that situation, you know the marth will attack right away so......
2) if Falco expects a quick attack he can dash dance, and punish marth in his lag. Think of it as a 50/50 except when you guess right you combo me for MASSIVE DAMAGE with memorized tech skill routines.
3) something you probably don't know.. a quick dash attack into marth will make many marth's shield grab. In this situation, you get a free shine combo on Marth. At low %, if marth Fairs OOS, and you crouch cancel, you get a free F smash or aerial. This is a mix up that I know about that nobody uses. It is effective vs marth, but not other characters, because marth cannot grab "inside" of him.

marth does not hit falco harder unless it's FD or Fountain :/ I have learned this the hard way. DI up the lasers? What? it's not that easy to just do that, and it's not like you couldn't adapt to that. That only works in the air.

Mixups mango uses for pressure (excluding lasers) are landing behind them then punishing the roll (mixed up with up tilt/shine sometimes). Nair Shine Nair (unpunishable unless I fair OOS) or sometimes he waveshines inside of me, in a place that I cannot shield grab. Other options are double shine and shine grab, which he doesn't personally use.

Marth is slow too :/ He is only faster at running, which he can't do anyway due to lasers

last thing if you are close enough you can aerial me after a laser before I can even Jab you after taking a laser :/ unfortunately. It is a powerful option once you acquire close range.

Edit - F smash does not work at ALL. that is a horrible option.

 

[Dr Peepee]

I know about these, but if falco is close enough he can do 1 of 2 main options.
1) a quick Dair usually trades or beats most situations. Sometimes it won't where in that situation, you know the marth will attack right away so......
2) if Falco expects a quick attack he can dash dance, and punish marth in his lag. Think of it as a 50/50 except when you guess right you combo me for MASSIVE DAMAGE with memorized tech skill routines.
3) something you probably don't know.. a quick dash attack into marth will make many marth's shield grab. In this situation, you get a free shine combo on Marth. At low %, if marth Fairs OOS, and you crouch cancel, you get a free F smash or aerial. This is a mix up that I know about that nobody uses. It is effective vs marth, but not other characters, because marth cannot grab "inside" of him.

1. you covered it, but I mean it could get shield grabbed too LOL

2. Marth can't get punished for Fair OOS or taking a laser hit. Not my fault everyone wants to shield when they get hit by a laser because they're afraid of it. If Marth came up and grabbed me while I DD'd and then CG death comboed me with tech skill routines done by themselves then I'd feel bad about it but learn my lesson pretty quickly.

3. Marth can shield DI back to still get the grab. If that doesn't work because the dash attack is literally that late, then Marth could just WD OOS the other direction and be safe....and maybe get an Fsmash or at least start up DD'ing for that grab.

marth does not hit falco harder unless it's FD or Fountain :/ I have learned this the hard way. DI up the lasers? What? it's not that easy to just do that, and it's not like you couldn't adapt to that. That only works in the air.

Mixups mango uses for pressure (excluding lasers) are landing behind them then punishing the roll (mixed up with up tilt/shine sometimes). Nair Shine Nair (unpunishable unless I fair OOS) or sometimes he waveshines inside of me, in a place that I cannot shield grab. Other options are double shine and shine grab, which he doesn't personally use.

Marth is slow too :/ He is only faster at running, which he can't do anyway due to lasers

last thing if you are close enough you can aerial me after a laser before I can even Jab you after taking a laser :/ unfortunately. It is a powerful option once you acquire close range.

You don't think Marth destroys on YS or BF with those small/lower platforms? Sure it's not straight comboing but the low platforms sure do make things easy for him, not to mention the added bonus the small stage gives to the big sword stage control and better likelihood of gimping.

Nair shine Nair doesn't actually hit you if you stay still and you know they do it because they keep doing it, and....yeah all of it seems like you could just wait it out or WD OOS at a later time to avoid taking damage. You know Mango doesn't grab much LOL.

Marth is fast enough to get those dash attacks from out of nowhere on Falco when he thinks he has control. =( But yeah it's not about who's slower, it's about what you can see coming, and Marth's DD makes that easier for him, while Falco is just all-around slow and you can react to his lasers(which have to be SH'd....) and general running speed well enough if you know what you're looking for, once again.


@last part: are you sure??? because lasers don't seem to stun much at all. wait, do you mean like, the laser hits right in your face? If so, then you could've just Fair'd before the laser got there or even walked away beforehand to take the hit. I mean yeah if you don't react in time and you get lasered in the face then maybe shield if that's the case?


Edit for your last edit: It does at slightly farther away range. Azen did it.

 

[Mew2King]

I wish CG to death worked :/ It's only truely effective on FD sadly

dash attack is not recommended normally it is a random mix up for getting a free shine. I wouldn't use it often, and I would never use it vs other characters.

I've never been a fan of battlefield personally. I don't know why it is considered so good for Marth. I think Fountain and FD are the only 2 Marth win on.

On a platform you can crouch the up tilt or uair and be okay. Or, you can purposely DI the up tilt off stage and recover. It puts you in a position to recover, but you do not get comboed at all by more up tilts or the deadly up tilt Dair.

Nair shine Nair if done right puts you out of shield grab range. Mango does this to me all the time randomly. After the retreating SH nair, he never gets shield grabbed. Even Marth's long arms cannot grab. After I miss this shield grab, mango either forward smashes or down tilts into a combo. If I continue shielding and he down tilts, I'm usually stupid and grab right after, where he forward smashes. He puts himself in a safe position so that he can pressure without getting counterattacked. Nair shine Nair is safe even vs marth. He is not in shield grab range if he does it properly. It's not very hard to do just drift backwards after it.

f smash is not good man :/ trust me, it is very unlikely to hit, no follow up, slow start up compared to his other moves, causes him to get comboed if he gets hit, and if it is blocked you can just dair OOS. If you block a tipper hit you can just empty top towards him and grab since 99% of the time they would shield in that situation.

Basically look at Falco this way.

You space constant lasers and mix up that early aerial

with a dash dance + punish right after (wait for the whiffed move, then do your powerful combo punish)

this combo game after a 50/50 chance guess.. if you mix up ONLY these 2 things (aren't all your options but I am saying you can get great rewards even simply only using these 2 things) you can get great punishes from 1 prediction due to Falco's hard punishments. This is why he is such a great character.

 

[Dr Peepee]

I wish CG to death worked :/ It's only truely effective on FD sadly

dash attack is not recommended normally it is a random mix up for getting a free shine. I wouldn't use it often, and I would never use it vs other characters.

Lol you know I mean CG to a platform and then finish with Utilts and stuff. Starts bigtime with a CG though....

Oh I know, but it's just another thing Falco has to worry about that's a very good thing Marth can use sometimes. The more mixups you have, the better you'll be.

 

[Mew2King]

Also here is a strong tip for Vs Fox

laser approach him right, then when you get close

Dash dance near him and SH autocancel bair (facing away from him obviously). If he tries to full jump nair or full jump Dair OOS (2 very common options) or even roll into you or approach you in any way right away (will happen 9/10 times) he gets Baired off stage.

 

[Dr Peepee]

I've never been a fan of battlefield personally. I don't know why it is considered so good for Marth. I think Fountain and FD are the only 2 Marth win on.

On a platform you can crouch the up tilt or uair and be okay. Or, you can purposely DI the up tilt off stage and recover. It puts you in a position to recover, but you do not get comboed at all by more up tilts or the deadly up tilt Dair.

Nair shine Nair if done right puts you out of shield grab range. Mango does this to me all the time randomly. After the retreating SH nair, he never gets shield grabbed. Even Marth's long arms cannot grab. After I miss this shield grab, mango either forward smashes or down tilts into a combo. If I continue shielding and he down tilts, I'm usually stupid and grab right after, where he forward smashes. He puts himself in a safe position so that he can pressure without getting counterattacked. Nair shine Nair is safe even vs marth. He is not in shield grab range if he does it properly. It's not very hard to do just drift backwards after it.

f smash is not good man :/ trust me, it is very unlikely to hit, no follow up, slow start up compared to his other moves, causes him to get comboed if he gets hit, and if it is blocked you can just dair OOS. If you block a tipper hit you can just empty top towards him and grab since 99% of the time they would shield in that situation.

Basically look at Falco this way.

You space constant lasers and mix up that early aerial

with a dash dance + punish right after (wait for the whiffed move, then do your powerful combo punish)

this combo game after a 50/50 chance guess.. if you mix up ONLY these 2 things (aren't all your options but I am saying you can get great rewards even simply only using these 2 things) you can get great punishes from 1 prediction due to Falco's hard punishments. This is why he is such a great character.

Again, BF is good because Falco can't really kill early and Marth gets a smaller stage to swing his sword on so Falco can't escape easily, as well as not ever be far from an edge to gimp from. Also also, lower platforms make Utilt/Fsmash tippers very convenient for finishing/comboing in the matchup.

Can't CC out of a tech animation, and even if you do, if you're above.....40%? then I think you'll just do that stupid fall on your back thing anyway. Plus, being offstage vs Marth as Falco typically blows anyway lol so it's not like that's a great thing.

LOL then don't challenge Nair shine Nair or the Dtilt! WD back OOS or SH and Fair on reaction to regain time for your shield to recover/start a combo. I like that Dtilt idea though. =p

Fsmash is HUGE, comes out pretty quickly, and if tippered you can expect someone to be offstage or in a position to be hit again(like me vs you on YS haha). Azen thought Fsmash was good and he hit with it a lot despite all of that stuff you said, so I think it's worth exploring.

And I can't help Marths don't do more about Falcos doing those things lol, the metagame needs to catch up with Falco which is what I tried to say in the MBR....

Also here is a strong tip for Vs Fox

laser approach him right, then when you get close

Dash dance near him and SH autocancel bair (facing away from him obviously). If he tries to full jump nair or full jump Dair OOS (2 very common options) or even roll into you or approach you in any way right away (will happen 9/10 times) he gets Baired off stage.

Why wouldn't he just keep shielding? Eh, either way that is a pretty cool mixup, thanks. =)

 

[AvengerAngel]

I honestly can't understand why you see Falco's DD as a big threat. I mean he's not Fox, Falcon or Marth: his DD range is short and he's quite slow. If he's DDing too close he might get grabbed/Faired OOS, if he's further away you might retreating Fair OOS or just WD OOS back, can't you? It's just something I can't understand, cause I think if Falco starts DDing at the wrong time he completely loses stage control. PP, Mango and Zhu look to me like the only top Falcos that can get away with it so consistently, DDing in front of their opponents and shooting just a few lazers. Care to explain? :O


Another thing I can't really understand is why people don't tech away more often vs. Falco. He's not as slow as Peach/Puff, but I feel like he has a harder time chasing techs away, being slower than Fox/Falcon/Sheik. e.g. Is there a reason why you didn't tech away in this situation http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdwhcf87s3s&t=10m00s ? The Dair follow-up on the tech in place seemed kinda obvious to me, but I do know that being in GFs, the fast-pace of the match and stuff don't leave you much time to think about it :x

I hope it all made sense :x

 

[stelzig]

I feel that the higher level of play you get to as far as understanding the matchup, the less bad it seems for falco.

Falco also does perfectly fine vs peach and puff, I would have to say; the matchup hasn't proven ridiculous by any means: PP has shown he can beat hbox, and as far as peach... armada's simply a better player than his opponents.

Overall, I placed marth third in the game... perhaps sheik is better, idk. Regardless, there is no character that can match fox/falco's matchups I'd have to say.

No offense at all, but when you first start out, marth does seem pretty ridiculous. Honestly, I think marth has a rather subpar recovery (fox and sheik absolutely **** it). He's also pretty easy to combo overall... I don't think falco, fox, or sheik really have trouble combo'ing marth...

Armada also says that he thinks falco is overrated...

 

[Jake13]

M2k: iono why you think FoD is in marths favor v falco. Srsly

I understand high ceiling and big blast zones but its platforms are PERFECT for pillar combos, the ledges are sexy for techs and its a small, close range stage. Falco eats that **** for brkfst, lunch and dinner.

 

[choknater]

that convo between m2k and pp was one of the most interesting things i've ever read